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pinecone77 wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
@tag It is. Draw LOS and range from each gun is what the rule explicitly tells you to do- and each gun can fire at a different target.

I actually think that last line refers to Synapse doesn't help the instinctive Fire rule. It's always closest.

Wow that's gunna be ridiculously time consuming, especially considering they are all in different positions on the model making multiple LoS checks necessary, it's blasts so you have to line up scatters, and have to roll even if they couldn't wound because of scatter chance, and have to do this 5 times, and then have to do it all again for every single pod.... wtf thats just ridiculous writing for a massive scale tabletop game

It could be just assuming you'll take Deathspitters every time. No need for placement and scatterdie then.

Do you have to place the blast markers on the closest model? So they won't be nearly as effective as placing them in the center of a blob. I suppose since it says unit you wouldn't have to do that...

I'd interpret that as place the 'hole" of the Blast over the closest.

That's not how it works. The unit is selected for you, but you can target any model in that unit.

Psychic Resonator: Any friendly Synapse creature within 6" of this model adds 6" to its synapse range. Does this mean that a Synapse creature benefits from this boost once, regardless of how many Psychic Resonators are within 6" or does this mean that Synapse range is boosted by 6" for EACH Psychic Resonator within 6"?

I don't think the pods are going to break the bank. They're a nice leveler for our army, bringing a lot of stuff up in usefulness, but I don't think it'll take the overall competitiveness to another level. Maybe via dropping Dimas.

I mean, the gun upgrades are just the basic BS/VC, not the heavy MC versions, and depending on how your group rules it, there's a decent chance they'll be treated like vehicle weapons so they will rarely shoot more than 3. They're not bad at all, but definitely not deadly gunboats.

Drop pod armies were nothing obscene in 5th/6th, and not much has really changed since.

The biggest advantage of the pod is not taking FOC and the flexibility of not being a DT. One should appear in most lists, as it allows you to adapt your force projection to the enemy's army. Got a castling army? Dima goes in. Got a hyper-aggressive army you want to keep space? 20 gants go in (Instant 18" roadblock). Need mobility to grab far objectives? Obsec troop. Solo zoey rolled up psychic scream? Go play with them.

The fact that it does make so many less desirable units considerable is the biggest take away from this. I think if GW can continue to do this in future releases (Increase viability across the board without spiking top-end power), the game will slowly reach some sort of balance (Once we remove a handful offenders like invisibility, wave serpents, etc.)

oh my oh my!
i'm really excited about the tyrannocyte!!!

it can open a playstyle I LOVE!
can't wait to DS the OOE near a LR!^^




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ifurita wrote:
Psychic Resonator: Any friendly Synapse creature within 6" of this model adds 6" to its synapse range. Does this mean that a Synapse creature benefits from this boost once, regardless of how many Psychic Resonators are within 6" or does this mean that Synapse range is boosted by 6" for EACH Psychic Resonator within 6"?

Usually in the RAW bonuses never stack unless specified!

Well, the way the citation is written (maybe it's not this way in the rules) is "within 6" of THIS model ..."

So, I could point to cyte A and say it's within 6" of that model so I get a bonus and then then look at cyte B and say, I am also with 6" of that one, so I get a bonus for cybe B as well.

Asmodas wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
As an MC all the weapons should have a 360 degree arc of fire.

Zopes would probably be better for podding in Psychic Scream. The single shot Warp Blast requires too many rolls. Roll to manifest, roll to hit, roll to penetrate, and then any applicable saves. I don't think taking away the range problem helps.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
In most cases you're still only taking away a single hullpoint and maybe stunning it for a turn.

Yup I agree. Except in an army with Zopes you don't want to be running pods, and vice versa, the only time these two have any synergy is when you roll the scream, as far as army compositions they work very badly together

Well, the pod's not a DT, so you can always make the decision on the fly before you deploy. Against AM/IG I could definitely see some value in dropping a Zoan behind a large blob that is hiding behind an Aegis, and hitting it from behind with the large blast. You could negate all their cover saves and potentially kill the priest hiding in the back. Plus, y'know, five venom cannons.

So many options all of a sudden....

My point wasn't that it couldn't do well the scream,MIT was the fact that there is no sensible way to build a list in which you take drop pods and you take Zopes. They aim to achieve two different things and it's not with sacrificing coherency and synergy for that one game where you not only roll the scream, but against an optimal list to use it well and have I outperform your other units who could go in one

Wow I am beyond excited for this next release. I'm with Jifel that I am HOPING to see the return of the DOOOOM but certainly not expecting it. Even without it, my two Dimachaerons just got so much happier. And those drop pods, while not objective secured, certainly can score on their own. Being MC, they are probably not about to be assaulted (unless you want to take heavy losses). I'll have to do the math to see what I can fit in a list, but my first thought is actually that Genestealers are pretty happy to see this. Not because they needed the alternative deployment method - they don't - but because who is going to shoot at them when they have a Dimachaeron or two bearing down on them?? I can see something like 2 10 man squads being overlooked almost entirely on turn 1, coming out of their infiltrated hiding place on turn 2 or 3 (depending on he distance they need to cover) and making the most of that monstrosity right next to them.

Overall, we just gained so much more flexibility. Definitely buying two of those pods (three if the DOOOOOM actually gets re-released) and loving my preferred Tyranid playstyle of MTO gaming some more traction. Christmas has indeed come early

Heh, whether they end up being used on the table or not, I say the new pods look awesome, so will add to my list of Tyranid things to buy and paint up.

I'm sure I'll find a use for them on the table though, they are pretty good rules wise. I'm looking forward to seeing how this changes our common lists, interesting to see people are suddenly talking about pyrovores now

One thing I would like to see is a plastic kit that builds three biovores/pyrovores. I have none of either model, and the biovores are really hard to find currently

I've been dwelling on the viability of the toxicrine in the Tyrrannocyte. It is great if I'm playing eldar (Wraith Knights) or Tau (Riptides). Against every other army it feels like it is a mistake. There just isn't going to be enough toughness values on the board. Both tau and eldar should have little difficulty putting down an MC even if I hide him behind the drop pod. Maybe he survives if i get him into ruins, still iffy.

It seems like these releases coming in a row would make some useful synergy, but I am just really puzzled why I would ever buy a toxicrine kit. What am I not seeing?

----------

Math Hammer on the Maleceptor:
Using 5 dice, The Maleceptor requires 5 shots to statistically take a hull point off of a vehicle, and that is 25 warp dice, and during the course of that shooting it has 65% chance of taking a wound.
If you roll 4 dice instead of 5, it takes 6 shots to take a hull point off a vehicle, and only 24 warp dice, and during the course of that shooting it has a 53% chance of taking a wound.

Using 5 dice, It requires 2.5 shots to statistically kill a Necron Warrior (LD 10). 12.5 warp dice, and has a 33% chance of taking a wound.
If you roll 4 dice instead of 5, it takes 3 shots to statistically kill a Necron Warrior, and only 12 warp dice, and during the course of that shooting it has a 26% chance of taking a wound.

I'll run the numbers for other leadership values if anyone is interested, but suffice to say it is clearly the worst unit available to any army on a point by point basis.

Yeah I thought about running a Toxicrene but I don't see the advantage. It has better survivability than the cheaper Carnifex (though worse range and typically the Fex will do damage to what we need it to, whereas the Toxicrene has much more limited target selection. I want to feel like it's useful, but I think I'd put a Screamer Killer Carnifex in a pod before I would use the Toxicrene. Shame, too, becuase it is a beautiful model. Maybe if we just don't buy it GW will buff it in the next dex to sell more models

Overall, the tactical options that we now have are pretty sweet. I mean, when was the last time that massed Dakkafexes were a thing? Now taking 3 squads for less than 700 points including the pods is a nice beta strike (as are the podded devil-gants of yester-codex)

The list I'm thinking about running now is:

Flyrant w/2 TL BL Devs, EGrubs - 240
Flyrant w/2 TL BL Devs, EGrubs - 240
Flyrant w/2 TL BL Devs, EGrubs - 240

Malanthrope - 85
Bastion w/Comms Relay - 95

3 Rippers w/Deep Strike - 45
3 Rippers w/Deep Strike - 45
2 Mucolid Spores - 30

Dimachaeron w/Tyrranocyte - 275
Dimachaeron w/Tyrranocyte - 275

Mawloc - 140
Mawloc - 140

Ironically I could just leave everything in reserve sans the Malanthrope and Bastion if I felt like it (take THAT Deathwing Assault ) but Flyrants running around wreaking havoc is nice too. It is a self-ally list, but from what I understand, most tournaments do allow this

Does 7th still have that 50% rule for deepstriking your army? Haven't had to bother with it for awhile.

luke1705 wrote:
Yeah I thought about running a Toxicrene but I don't see the advantage. It has better survivability than the cheaper Carnifex (though worse range and typically the Fex will do damage to what we need it to, whereas the Toxicrene has much more limited target selection. I want to feel like it's useful, but I think I'd put a Screamer Killer Carnifex in a pod before I would use the Toxicrene. Shame, too, becuase it is a beautiful model. Maybe if we just don't buy it GW will buff it in the next dex to sell more models

Overall, the tactical options that we now have are pretty sweet. I mean, when was the last time that massed Dakkafexes were a thing? Now taking 3 squads for less than 700 points including the pods is a nice beta strike (as are the podded devil-gants of yester-codex)

The list I'm thinking about running now is:

Flyrant w/2 TL BL Devs, EGrubs - 240
Flyrant w/2 TL BL Devs, EGrubs - 240
Flyrant w/2 TL BL Devs, EGrubs - 240

Malanthrope - 85
Bastion w/Comms Relay - 95

3 Rippers w/Deep Strike - 45
3 Rippers w/Deep Strike - 45
2 Mucolid Spores - 30

Dimachaeron w/Tyrranocyte - 275
Dimachaeron w/Tyrranocyte - 275

Mawloc - 140
Mawloc - 140

Ironically I could just leave everything in reserve sans the Malanthrope and Bastion if I felt like it (take THAT Deathwing Assault ) but Flyrants running around wreaking havoc is nice too. It is a self-ally list, but from what I understand, most tournaments do allow this

Exactly the type of army that I would run.

Sorry to keep stirring the pot, but Is the spudded Dimachaeron the best TAC choice? It enters play with no board impact other than forcing your opponent to deal with it. On the other hand a spudded Devilfex immediately impacts the board(12 S6 shots), and also forces your opponent to deal with it. It just seems to me to be more about making an assault TMC work than using the best TAC choices.

 Zande4 wrote:
Does 7th still have that 50% rule for deepstriking your army? Haven't had to bother with it for awhile.

Nope. You can reserve to your heart's content. Just make sure you have at least 1 model survive at the end of every game turn.

jy2, do you know off-hand where the rules are for needing a model on the board at the end of each round?

 BlaxicanX wrote:
jy2, do you know off-hand where the rules are for needing a model on the board at the end of each round?

Sure.

p. 133 - Sudden Death Victory

"If at the end of any game turn, one player has no models on the battlefield his opponent automatically wins."

badula wrote:

 Ifurita wrote:
Psychic Resonator: Any friendly Synapse creature within 6" of this model adds 6" to its synapse range. Does this mean that a Synapse creature benefits from this boost once, regardless of how many Psychic Resonators are within 6" or does this mean that Synapse range is boosted by 6" for EACH Psychic Resonator within 6"?

Usually in the RAW bonuses never stack unless specified!

That's because the rules text usually says something like "when within range of one or more of these models". In this case it doesn't, so by RAW there's nothing to stop you stacking synapse range up forever.

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Sorry to keep stirring the pot, but Is the spudded Dimachaeron the best TAC choice? It enters play with no board impact other than forcing your opponent to deal with it. On the other hand a spudded Devilfex immediately impacts the board(12 S6 shots), and also forces your opponent to deal with it. It just seems to me to be more about making an assault TMC work than using the best TAC choices.

Forcing your opponent to deal with it is not an insubstantial consequence for your opponent. What many people (Tyranid players included) don't always remember is just how good our Flyrants are. Every bullet taken away from them is a huge win, especially because although they fly and are relatively tough, it doesn't take that many wounds to put them down. A 3+ is only a 3+, and sometimes you only get 4+ jink. Tyrants don't have as many wounds as we wish, but they can single-handedly deal with the vast majority of units in the game.

Furthermore, the Dimachaerons are especially scary because they are pretty durable. They may very well be able to toe into cover when they come in, giving a 4++, more or less, because most things that ignore cover aren't also AP 3. Even then, getting through 6 T6 wounds in a single turn (12 if there are 2 of them) is no small task for most armies. And if they can't kill them, let me tell you - the do WORK. No other unit in the Tyranid army (and I would suggest most in the game) hit as hard as the Dimachaeron when it gets there. Previously, the argument had always been, "well yeah it wrecks face when it gets there but it'll never get there!" Now that argument is gone and we're left with a very good unit that won't mishap when it scatters, leaving a lot of room for scatter error (and more risky scatter placement). That's not to say that a Dakkafex in a pod isn't a good idea as well - for 50 points less, one could say that you're getting a bargain. You lose most of the potency in assault in exchange for a durable gun platform. The two units do completely different things and could even be used in tandem with each other to good effect. I think they're both good options - I just like building my list around the Dimachaeron and covering up for his weaknesses more. But that's a playstyle preference, not a tactical one

luke1705 wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:
Sorry to keep stirring the pot, but Is the spudded Dimachaeron the best TAC choice? It enters play with no board impact other than forcing your opponent to deal with it. On the other hand a spudded Devilfex immediately impacts the board(12 S6 shots), and also forces your opponent to deal with it. It just seems to me to be more about making an assault TMC work than using the best TAC choices.

Forcing your opponent to deal with it is not an insubstantial consequence for your opponent. What many people (Tyranid players included) don't always remember is just how good our Flyrants are. Every bullet taken away from them is a huge win, especially because although they fly and are relatively tough, it doesn't take that many wounds to put them down. A 3+ is only a 3+, and sometimes you only get 4+ jink. Tyrants don't have as many wounds as we wish, but they can single-handedly deal with the vast majority of units in the game.

Furthermore, the Dimachaerons are especially scary because they are pretty durable. They may very well be able to toe into cover when they come in, giving a 4++, more or less, because most things that ignore cover aren't also AP 3. Even then, getting through 6 T6 wounds in a single turn (12 if there are 2 of them) is no small task for most armies. And if they can't kill them, let me tell you - the do WORK. No other unit in the Tyranid army (and I would suggest most in the game) hit as hard as the Dimachaeron when it gets there. Previously, the argument had always been, "well yeah it wrecks face when it gets there but it'll never get there!" Now that argument is gone and we're left with a very good unit that won't mishap when it scatters, leaving a lot of room for scatter error (and more risky scatter placement). That's not to say that a Dakkafex in a pod isn't a good idea as well - for 50 points less, one could say that you're getting a bargain. You lose most of the potency in assault in exchange for a durable gun platform. The two units do completely different things and could even be used in tandem with each other to good effect. I think they're both good options - I just like building my list around the Dimachaeron and covering up for his weaknesses more. But that's a playstyle preference, not a tactical one

I think you are both right. Dima is definitely a great model and really good now.

However Dakkafex is still better.

luke1705 wrote:

 ductvader wrote:
Unpopular opinion : I love taking 60 termagants, 2 tervigons, and 2x3 StrangleWarriors. THat's my stock troop choices.

I personally find that objectives are never hard to grab, synapse is abundant, I'm hard to kill, and combat is hard to lose.

To me, that's really more of a playstyle choice than a tactical one. It's basically our version of drop pod marines. Is it good? I think so. Is it fun to play? Not for me. Ironically Verthane also stopped using his drop pod marine army because he wasn't enjoying the playstyle either. And I mean, if you're not having fun, what are you really doing?

Agreed. The drop pod list I was running with 17 objective secured was extremely successful -- I had a very high win rate. However, it didn't feel like I was playing 40K. It felt more like I was interacting with the objectives and just trying to stay alive than like I was interacting with the enemy. If I was going to go to a major tournament right now, it's what I would bring if I wanted to win (based on what's in my collection) -- but it wouldn't be what I would bring if I wanted to have fun.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

luke1705 wrote:

Small aside, it does sadden my heart to have a first-hand account of how good Tyranids are at killing Tyranids. Had a 750 point 2 v 2 game and randomly rolled for teams, so the Tyranids wound up being on opposite teams. The Dimachaeron got charged by a squad of 6 warriors and a prime (the prime had the bonesword/lash whip combo, giving him one chance to finish the bad boy off for good. Two hits....and NO sixes). Dimachaeron swings back angrily (getting a good roll for being outnumbered) and puts out SEVEN INSTANT DEATH WOUNDS. There were 7 models with a total of 21 wounds.....so I won combat by 21. Didn't get to sweep them (or use that I1 fnp) because, you know, they were already dead.

And so the Zoats retreat back into the quiet of intergalactic space to lick their wounds and await the next rules edition or Nid codex...

It occurs to me you could put Mucolids in a Tyrannocyte- deep strike as closely as possible to an enemy unit, place Venom Cannon shots on the closest model to clip your mucolid, and try to double it out to instagib it for a S8 Ap3 large blast(plus the Venom Cannon shots). 115pts for five S6 Ap4 blasts and a S8 Ap3 large blast.

Not sure if it's competitive, but if you run Mucolids as troops and a Tyrannocyte you have the option.

 Ifurita wrote:
Psychic Resonator: Any friendly Synapse creature within 6" of this model adds 6" to its synapse range. Does this mean that a Synapse creature benefits from this boost once, regardless of how many Psychic Resonators are within 6" or does this mean that Synapse range is boosted by 6" for EACH Psychic Resonator within 6"?

I dunno, I think that is looking for too much. Shoot if you want a big Synapse Bubble, take a Synapse Node tyrant (or Swarmy) add the boost, then cast Dominion...+6",+6",+6"...30" bubble? sounds like it'll do.

pinecone77 wrote:

 Ifurita wrote:
Psychic Resonator: Any friendly Synapse creature within 6" of this model adds 6" to its synapse range. Does this mean that a Synapse creature benefits from this boost once, regardless of how many Psychic Resonators are within 6" or does this mean that Synapse range is boosted by 6" for EACH Psychic Resonator within 6"?

I dunno, I think that is looking for too much. Shoot if you want a big Synapse Bubble, take a Synapse Node tyrant (or Swarmy) add the boost, then cast Dominion...+6",+6",+6"...30" bubble? sounds like it'll do.

Don't forget the Norn Crown and warlord trait. If they stack drop say three around your node- I think a 54" Synapse range?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

luke1705 wrote:

Small aside, it does sadden my heart to have a first-hand account of how good Tyranids are at killing Tyranids. Had a 750 point 2 v 2 game and randomly rolled for teams, so the Tyranids wound up being on opposite teams. The Dimachaeron got charged by a squad of 6 warriors and a prime (the prime had the bonesword/lash whip combo, giving him one chance to finish the bad boy off for good. Two hits....and NO sixes). Dimachaeron swings back angrily (getting a good roll for being outnumbered) and puts out SEVEN INSTANT DEATH WOUNDS. There were 7 models with a total of 21 wounds.....so I won combat by 21. Didn't get to sweep them (or use that I1 fnp) because, you know, they were already dead.

And so the Zoats retreat back into the quiet of intergalactic space to lick their wounds and await the next rules edition or Nid codex...

I don't really think the Zoats want anything to do with us around about now, I can't imagine them faring too well living side by side with Dimaechaerons

I am amused that the new Tyrannicide,Mucilod, sporocyst looks like one big kit. you can build a pod or sporo and Muciliod.

Though at almost a $1 a point at most likely cost, it is probably the highest dollar to point cost model, so I would want to reliable use out of it before spending money.

To be honest, I don't know if more spores or a slightly larger synapse range is that big of a deal. Remember that all of our psykers get Dominion for free. How often do you cast if? If the answer is "all the time! And even then I wish I had more synapse!", well....maybe you should include more synapse in your list. Otherwise, you can probably make do without it anyhow just by....you know....casting Dominion

As for the spore mines, it's well-documented that Biovores often miss when they're not in LAN. What's less-documented is that if you want to create more spore blockades (with somewhat reasonable placement), you don't really need this new thing either. Just take Biovores with LAN. Whenever you miss, great. If you hit, re-roll it (you are twin-linked, after all) so that you have another chance to miss. Or, you could adapt your tactics and just hit stuff if you want

It is interesting to note that for a 30-point tax, we can field an "un-bound battle-forged army" more or less. You have no objective-secured units, but you can take it to the BAO, NOVA, or whatever tournament you want. They don't give up kill points, so it might even be worth taking 90 points to field 6 Mucolid spore units. That's a lot of strength 8 blasts

Last thing of note - us getting so close to un-bound that we can taste it begs the question - how far are we from unbound, really? I think some tournaments are going to allow it before long

barnowl wrote:
I am amused that the new Tyrannicide,Mucilod, sporocyst looks like one big kit. you can build a pod or sporo and Muciliod.

Though at almost a $1 a point at most likely cost, it is probably the highest dollar to point cost model, so I would want to reliable use out of it before spending money.

The power of magnets is truly a wonderous thing-doubling the utility of dual kits!

Shuppet,

Verthane was referring to the battle I described with the Dimachaeron vs the warrior squad. He was the other Tyranid player. The Zoats were being proxied as Tyranid warriors. Poor, poor Zoats

 jy2 wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
jy2, do you know off-hand where the rules are for needing a model on the board at the end of each round?

Sure.

p. 133 - Sudden Death Victory

"If at the end of any game turn, one player has no models on the battlefield his opponent automatically wins."

Awesome, thank you.

By "game turn"do they basically mean rounds? i.e. If I kill all my opponents models at the top of turn 5, he still has all of his turn at the bottom of turn 5 to get models on the board?

 SHUPPET wrote:
Automatically Appended Next Post:

luke1705 wrote:

Small aside, it does sadden my heart to have a first-hand account of how good Tyranids are at killing Tyranids. Had a 750 point 2 v 2 game and randomly rolled for teams, so the Tyranids wound up being on opposite teams. The Dimachaeron got charged by a squad of 6 warriors and a prime (the prime had the bonesword/lash whip combo, giving him one chance to finish the bad boy off for good. Two hits....and NO sixes). Dimachaeron swings back angrily (getting a good roll for being outnumbered) and puts out SEVEN INSTANT DEATH WOUNDS. There were 7 models with a total of 21 wounds.....so I won combat by 21. Didn't get to sweep them (or use that I1 fnp) because, you know, they were already dead.

And so the Zoats retreat back into the quiet of intergalactic space to lick their wounds and await the next rules edition or Nid codex...

I don't really think the Zoats want anything to do with us around about now, I can't imagine them faring too well living side by side with Dimaechaerons

No, they certainly don't fit in with the newer Nid fluff anymore. Still love me those miniatures though.