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Tiles look really good.

One of the stretch goals will be for printed updated cards where needed to bring old game in line with the new rules - they will be available to non backers to buy at a later date.

 DaveC wrote:
One of the stretch goals will be for printed updated cards where needed to bring old game in line with the new rules - they will be available to non backers to buy at a later date.

While I love this, I can't help but think this shouldn't be a stretch goal....

 cincydooley wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
One of the stretch goals will be for printed updated cards where needed to bring old game in line with the new rules - they will be available to non backers to buy at a later date.

While I love this, I can't help but think this shouldn't be a stretch goal....

People wanted more tiles for variety, not to be forced to throw their current tiles out. So if we don't hit the stretch goal all the current tiles are basically trash?

Seems like an odd design decision to not make the rules work with the old tiles 'as-is' so the stretch goal could be a fresh 3rd set of tiles for even more variety.

These new rules better be 'blow your socks off' good to be worth basically trashing all the old rules, cards and gaming material. This is basically a 'second edition' which feels like we now need to re-buy all the old game components to have them work right. Not sure that is a good thing.

nkelsch wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 DaveC wrote:
One of the stretch goals will be for printed updated cards where needed to bring old game in line with the new rules - they will be available to non backers to buy at a later date.

While I love this, I can't help but think this shouldn't be a stretch goal....

People wanted more tiles for variety, not to be forced to throw their current tiles out. So if we don't hit the stretch goal all the current tiles are basically trash?

Seems like an odd design decision to not make the rules work with the old tiles 'as-is' so the stretch goal could be a fresh 3rd set of tiles for even more variety.

...

Dave's post says 'Updated Cards' not 'Updated Tiles', there shouldn't be anything wrong with the current tiles.. but the cards for players and monsters could use a redo to make things clearer.

Well new cards is slightly better, but still an issue. I don't look forward to basically having obsolete cards and models unless I get a whole new set of cards.

That is what i call a fake stretch goal because making all your previous 3 sets unusable with the new game rules because new cards didn't get funded sounds like suicide.

Something that is well worth them doing,

but having it as a stretch goal (assuming it's not just late stage stretch unlocking you the option to buy them) seems to lock them firmly into existing players only

rather than appeal to a new customer,

but I guess well see when this launches

New cards cannot be drastically different from the current cards. They just released King Starfire, Captain R, and Kaelly all with cards that work for the current game.

My guess is that updated cards would only be reprints with updated rule wording on things like lycanthropy or fly.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
Something that is well worth them doing,

but having it as a stretch goal (assuming it's not just late stage stretch unlocking you the option to buy them) seems to lock them firmly into existing players only

rather than appeal to a new customer,

but I guess well see when this launches

I totally agree. Horrible stretch goal, especially as they said they'll be available to buy later. Completely "fake" stretch goal, as they're going to make them, or not sell any old sets. Already starting off on the wrong foot...

Let's wait and see how far apart those goals are.

If it's some dorky arbitrary 5k apart dealie at the very outset, I don't think I'm going to lose much sleep over a stretch goal like that.

Someone better post up in here when things start too, if and when we ever find out (or maybe we can have fun time like when Brimstone launched and all of FFP's fans went bonkers).

I assume they mean something like the card switch from Warmachine Mk1 to Mk2 - where you'd have to get new cards for your old minis.

Kickstarter backers get them free, (if the goal is met) and they HAVE to be available at retail later so people not in the kickstarter can update their collections.

It seems like an OK enough stretch goal to me. I doubt it's going to be a huge one. And the first dozen stretch goals are almost always "fake" stretch goals. It's KS 101.

On KS shipping from Deke

We will be charging all backers actual shipping costs, but will be providing everyone a basic shipping credit of $10 to help cover the expense. We are currently working on securing more localized ship centers for international backers to help reduce costs to them. We'll have better details on the shipping costs as the product enters manufacturing and we have final weight and dimensions based on whatever was unlocked.

The $10 should cover US backers or leave them with only a small bill and should help keep international within reason.

 DaveC wrote:
On KS shipping from Deke

We will be charging all backers actual shipping costs, but will be providing everyone a basic shipping credit of $10 to help cover the expense. We are currently working on securing more localized ship centers for international backers to help reduce costs to them. We'll have better details on the shipping costs as the product enters manufacturing and we have final weight and dimensions based on whatever was unlocked.

The $10 should cover US backers or leave them with only a small bill and should help keep international within reason.

I'd be very surprised if $10 covered shipping for a lot of the US; if they're shipping from Washington (I think) and the box is over 4-5 pounds, you're going to be paying a bit of difference.

I don't mind that, obviously, but I really don't think it'll cover most of the shipping within the US, especially with the way rates are ballooning.

Curious if people will have outrage over this shipping model as well. Other KS have basically 'included' domestic shipping into the base pledge and then added on RoW costs and people flip their lids. I do think more KS are going to a 'you pay what you owe' model, but again, a lot of other people are then flipping their lids because they want a guaranteed fixed shipping and if the costs increase, they want someone else to eat it.

I am fine with "everyone pays what they owe' but be prepared for the 'you screwing us! set in stone shipping costs required!' crowd.

Given that it's Soda Pop, the actual shipping (to anywhere) could end up costing any amount. They're not exactly timely or competent about getting things out on the projected dates. RK is 10 months late right now, and it looks like Robotech will be a year (or more) late before it's all delivered.

 DaveC wrote:
On KS shipping from Deke

We will be charging all backers actual shipping costs, but will be providing everyone a basic shipping credit of $10 to help cover the expense. We are currently working on securing more localized ship centers for international backers to help reduce costs to them. We'll have better details on the shipping costs as the product enters manufacturing and we have final weight and dimensions based on whatever was unlocked.

The $10 should cover US backers or leave them with only a small bill and should help keep international within reason.

I think that's the right move - at least for SPM. If they can't arrange shipping from within Europe, though, I expect that $10 won't even make a dent in the shipping, customs and handling fees. Doh!

nkelsch wrote:
Curious if people will have outrage over this shipping model as well. Other KS have basically 'included' domestic shipping into the base pledge and then added on RoW costs and people flip their lids. I do think more KS are going to a 'you pay what you owe' model, but again, a lot of other people are then flipping their lids because they want a guaranteed fixed shipping and if the costs increase, they want someone else to eat it.

I am fine with "everyone pays what they owe' but be prepared for the 'you screwing us! set in stone shipping costs required!' crowd.

I agree with you. There was a lot of angst over the CMON one, so I expect some here too, mainly from the overseas backers. I am a tad more hesitant with SPM though, as they now have to figure out all this on their own. And someone just posted on the RK thread that SPM wants $15 to ship a SINGLE MINIATURE to England. Then add on VAT and customs....sheesh. I'm not excited to see what an entire boxed game + stretch goals would be. I applaud them with offering the $10 credit, but that pretty much means they're going to ask full retail price for TFK box.

As to the "fake" stretch goal for updated cards, if it is a small stretch goal, and they give the cards for free, then there is no reason for complaining. But it was made to sound as if it would be a stretch goal simply to make the cards, offer them for purchase after unlocking them. It was, most likely, just the way I read it, but not unexpected for the way SPM seems to operate.

OK I figured I'd check out their current shipping rates to Europe as some indication

SDE boxed game $52.65
Von Drakk (other expansions) $18.60
SDE plus and 1 expansion $55.20
SDE special edtion character $9.45

Even with $10 credit I'm not paying $42.65 for shipping on what's likely to be a $100 base pledge (plus I might have to add VAT and handling charge). $20 - $25 after the $10 credit is probably as much as I'm willing to go.

I can understand companies wanting to use the new backer pays actual shipping costs model for KS, I don't have a problem with it within reason. It will have 2 effects though lower pledge total as shipping isn't included and less money as international backers won't pledge they will just wiat for retail particularly as it will all be avaialble later.

 DaveC wrote:
OK I figured I'd check out their current shipping rates to Europe as some indication

SDE boxed game $52.65
Von Drakk (other expansions) $18.60
SDE plus and 1 expansion $55.20
SDE special edtion character $9.45

Even with $10 credit I'm not paying $42.65 for shipping on what's likely to be a $100 base pledge (plus I might have to add VAT and handling charge). $20 - $25 after the $10 credit is probably as much as I'm willing to go.

I can understand companies wanting to use the new backer pays actual shipping costs model for KS, I don't have a problem with it within reason. It will have 2 effects though lower pledge total as shipping isn't included and less money as international backers won't pledge they will just wait for retail particularly as it will all be available later.

Yeah I figure that is exactly what is going to happen - it takes a very committed fan to pledge for a copy of the game in the knowledge that it's going to cost them more than it would if they picked it up on the day of retail release without any kind of discount. But I suspect they have probably taken that into account already and I wouldn't be surprised to see a relatively low funding target which only just covers the cost of manufacturing TFK plus KS fees. Heck, with the way things have been going for SPM, not having to deal with many (or any!) pledges that need to be shipped outside of the US makes it simpler for them.. and simpler hopefully means less chance of them frelling something up.

Yeah, I agree. Their current webstore is not 'friendly' to international shipping. They are simply not equipped to handle it *yet*. Right now, if you want Kelly the netherstrider (or any SDE product) your best bet is to find a local distributor at retail.

That doesn't mean good things for backing the KS, unless they can partner with a distributor who will handle the bulk minis and re-ship.

Or you guys can find someone who can re-ship for cheaper... I have no idea how much it would cost me to drop a box in the international post, but I can't imagine it would be cheaper than 40$ish. May be worth piling on to a US backer for exclusives only and then waiting for retail for the main stuff as a small box of a few exclusive figs should ship relativity easy.

It'd be interesting to see if that runs afoul of KS's rules, though in the FAQ it seems to be worded more as a guideline:

How do I charge shipping on my reward?
In general, the cost to mail your backers their rewards (postage, envelopes, etc.) should be taken into account when you set your goal and price your rewards.

I suspect lacking an ironclad "you MUST include domestic shipping" clause that it won't, but I can see where some are going to be annoyed with SPM as a result of not doing the norm.

I actually ordered Kaelly yesterday direct from SPM shipped and all today she cost me €16.60 all in (so no VAT) she would have cost £9 plus £5 shipping (€17.20) from a UK stockist so she was actually cheaper direct but this only applies if the combined cost of the mini and shipping is less than €22 (the VAT threshold).

Krinsath that actually came up with the Arcadia Quest shipping as well CMoN checked (or say they have at least) and found out it's just a guideline and shipping can be collected later.

Yeah, reading how it's phrased it certainly does not seem like a "rule", but it does seem like an unneeded amount of ill-will to a company that's done itself no favors in the KS arena to add that hassle to ALL backers. It gives the appearance that they don't have a firm grasp on the costs to set the levels appropriately, and if you don't have a firm grasp on the costs it then casts doubt on the rest of the operation.

As I mentioned, their track record on having their act together has already taken some serious hits so I'm not sure taking more is a particularly good idea.

Well it seems to be the done thing for 'experienced' KS companies shipping out of the US now

I guess they've all been stung too heavily by price rises/box size changes/delays to gamble with it

but better a smaller campaign they can be sure will do what it needs to do financially than a larger one (thanks to fixed postal costs) that could just hit them with a loss down the line

It certainly will impact backer numbers (and especially international backers) though

More Teaser images - not the best quality for an official picture

FORGOTTEN KING PREVIEW!

Chomp-Chomp-P'Chooey-Chomp-Chomp!

The Dungeons and cursed woods surrounding the Forgotten Kings lair has been overrun by the once peaceful Kodama, woodland creatures, more plant, than animal. The sprouts are lively little Kodama, but be careful, when angered, they plant themselves and transform into the mighty King Sprouts! Capable of swallowing hapless heroes in a single bite, the Kodama have many minions to turn you into plant food.

Watch for the Super Dungeon Explore: Forgotten King Kickstarter, coming VERY soon.

 DaveC wrote:
More Teaser images - not the best quality for an official picture

Man, you're not kidding.

It really seems like the dissolution of the CMoN relationship has left SPM wanting in lots of areas....

Damn. You can get a better quality photo than that with an $80 cheap digital camera. What are they using to take these photos? A three year old smartphone?

Hmmm teaser has been removed from Facebook

EDIT: it's back with new pictures (ever get the feeling your being watched )

I suspect these are resin pieces with a digital paint of green over the image - Impact! have done the same recently to get a few minis ready for their KS without having to paint a whole mini.

I guess those are....better?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I mean, what ever happened to getting a decent photocube from amazon and using any basic, macro enabled camera to take a solid photo of a miniature.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Regardless, I'm still tentatively excited about this project...but man, these updates are kinda bumming me out.

I guess if nothing else if the guys from SPM are reading forums outside their own after they release more information and are using that feedback to help prepare them for the KS and issues that are likely to arise then the teasers have served 2 purposes.

I'm also looking foward to this one I just hope shipping doesn't price me out of it though. The original SDE is still very hard to get here (it took me 3 attempts to get it the first was with Maelstrom just before they went out of business) and shipping from anywhere else is pricey so if I can get from KS for about what it would cost in store (€90/$120) without futher taxes and handling charges then happy days actually up to $125 is good with me $100 pledge and $35 for shipping ($10 credit for shipping)