Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

At the moment, there is nothing in this KS to give anyone outside the US a reason to back it. The extra 'free' stuff you are receiving as yet, are swallowed up by the cost of shipping and the potential Customs / VAT charges. At the moment, I can wait until UK retail, recieve 10% off through most retailers, and save on P&P and import charges, and still leave more change in my pocket than the KS.

The RK SDE models really have pee'd me off. I bought 2 sets, simply because as a collector, I like to have exclusive models no one else has. Now they will be available for general release, I have no interest in owning them as much, the 'buzz' is gone. And I certainly wouldn't have pledged to buy 2 sets of them. I feel cheated, lied to, and given all the other issues that have turned RK into the frieght train wreck it is, this announcement doesn't help.

Then there is the rumour doing the rounds that in buying out CMON, SPM have almost run out of cash. This KS is being used to fund the forefilment of other projects. Don't know how much truth is in this?

At the moment I've backed, if only to be kept updated. But unless the freebies begin to outweigh the cost of shipping and potential import charges, I'll pull my pledge, pass, and wait for retail. Not to mention loosing money for 12 months (assuming they can deliver in 12 months!!! - RK anyone??).

I'm fine with the paid add-ons, as none of them are exclusive! Buy them if you want them and can afford them, or buy them later at retail. In the meantime, they'll hopefully keep the pledge total ticking along nicely. I'd be surprised if they don't eventually offer bundles though.

edit-ninja'd

Latest word from Deke on the SPM forum on shipping now includes Asia Pacific

We are currently working on securing fulfillment houses in the EU and Asia Pacific so that shipping charges can be as reasonable as possible, as well as remove or reduce any VAT charges. As those deals are finalized we will post an update with more details.

 Breotan wrote:
So, can I just pledge $10 for the KD chibi? Or do I have to do the $100 pledge and add $10 to that?

Breotan,

Right now you have to pledge the $100 level to get add-ons. Or find someone else to add it on for you in the US. This is a one size fits all, SPM hand out for more money campaign. No reason to give the backers much of a discount of retail. I believe that this may be the first, in an admittedly limited scope of KSs, that seems to have the company actually looking for a profit from a KS, not just funding whatever KS product they are peddling. Very nice.

As an aside, they posted a pic on NDs FaceBook with Anime Tactics and Relic Knights posters behind them.

That's unfortunate. I really don't want the game, just the KD chibi. I'll explore other options then.

 Salacious Greed wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
So, can I just pledge $10 for the KD chibi? Or do I have to do the $100 pledge and add $10 to that?

Breotan,
This is a one size fits all, SPM hand out for more money campaign. No reason to give the backers much of a discount of retail. I believe that this may be the first, in an admittedly limited scope of KSs, that seems to have the company actually looking for a profit from a KS, not just funding whatever KS product they are peddling. Very nice.

How dare they use a fundraising service to raise funds! And it's actually a rather nice deal already. Maybe not for overseas backers yet, due to shipping, but stateside. And it will continue to get better.

 Breotan wrote:
That's unfortunate. I really don't want the game, just the KD chibi. I'll explore other options then.

The other option is - wait for it to be available at the Soda Pop store. And it will be!

 Breotan wrote:
That's unfortunate. I really don't want the game, just the KD chibi. I'll explore other options then.

If you wait until retail, you should be able to buy it from the Sodapop Store directly. They said nothing is exclusive and everything will be available post KS.

As for the fulfillment issues, the Ninja Division reputation and the Ponzi-like rumors floating around... I can gamble 100$ on a horribly mismanaged project that will take 2 full years to fulfill like RelicKnights... I can't gamble 300$. If they get greedy with completionist paid add-ons, then I may end up sitting this out and waiting for retail.

New Hero at $300k - 2 male heroes in a row!

 TheSecretSquig wrote:
At the moment, there is nothing in this KS to give anyone outside the US a reason to back it. The extra 'free' stuff you are receiving as yet, are swallowed up by the cost of shipping and the potential Customs / VAT charges. At the moment, I can wait until UK retail, recieve 10% off through most retailers, and save on P&P and import charges, and still leave more change in my pocket than the KS.

The RK SDE models really have pee'd me off. I bought 2 sets, simply because as a collector, I like to have exclusive models no one else has. Now they will be available for general release, I have no interest in owning them as much, the 'buzz' is gone. And I certainly wouldn't have pledged to buy 2 sets of them. I feel cheated, lied to, and given all the other issues that have turned RK into the frieght train wreck it is, this announcement doesn't help.

Then there is the rumour doing the rounds that in buying out CMON, SPM have almost run out of cash. This KS is being used to fund the forefilment of other projects. Don't know how much truth is in this?

At the moment I've backed, if only to be kept updated. But unless the freebies begin to outweigh the cost of shipping and potential import charges, I'll pull my pledge, pass, and wait for retail. Not to mention loosing money for 12 months (assuming they can deliver in 12 months!!! - RK anyone??).

Wait, you bought the Relic Knights SDE minis solely on the purpose of "I have it and you don't, neener-neener-neener!", and that was it? Not to use the models in game, or paint them, but just to spite others who don't have them?

That's....sad. So far, SPM has not previewed anything in this campaign that will be KS-exclusive, so it seems like there's no reason for you to even take part in it, judging by what you've said. Just wait until everything hits retail and you'll be set.

I get the feeling that people are becoming more and more entitled with miniatures and gaming projects as Kickstarter itself ages. They're expecting tons of freebies, lots of stretch goals, and constant feedback from creators. It's really disappointing to see the fun and excitement completely sucked out of a campaign due to the negativity, whining, and general "me me me"
attitude that plagues the KS comments and updates sections. Seems like people just can't be satisfied with what they're getting any more....

Also, it's great to see all the doom and gloom predictions a few days into a month-long campaign.

~iPaint

 TheSecretSquig wrote:


Then there is the rumour doing the rounds that in buying out CMON, SPM have almost run out of cash. This KS is being used to fund the forefilment of other projects. Don't know how much truth is in this?

More than a few grains.....

Is it just me - or do the rabid squirrels minis look like they were designed for Kingdom Death?

Look at the tails of the ones in the back row.

 -iPaint- wrote:

 TheSecretSquig wrote:
At the moment, there is nothing in this KS to give anyone outside the US a reason to back it. The extra 'free' stuff you are receiving as yet, are swallowed up by the cost of shipping and the potential Customs / VAT charges. At the moment, I can wait until UK retail, recieve 10% off through most retailers, and save on P&P and import charges, and still leave more change in my pocket than the KS.

The RK SDE models really have pee'd me off. I bought 2 sets, simply because as a collector, I like to have exclusive models no one else has. Now they will be available for general release, I have no interest in owning them as much, the 'buzz' is gone. And I certainly wouldn't have pledged to buy 2 sets of them. I feel cheated, lied to, and given all the other issues that have turned RK into the frieght train wreck it is, this announcement doesn't help.

Then there is the rumour doing the rounds that in buying out CMON, SPM have almost run out of cash. This KS is being used to fund the forefilment of other projects. Don't know how much truth is in this?

At the moment I've backed, if only to be kept updated. But unless the freebies begin to outweigh the cost of shipping and potential import charges, I'll pull my pledge, pass, and wait for retail. Not to mention loosing money for 12 months (assuming they can deliver in 12 months!!! - RK anyone??).

Wait, you bought the Relic Knights SDE minis solely on the purpose of "I have it and you don't, neener-neener-neener!", and that was it? Not to use the models in game, or paint them, but just to spite others who don't have them?

That's....sad. So far, SPM has not previewed anything in this campaign that will be KS-exclusive, so it seems like there's no reason for you to even take part in it, judging by what you've said. Just wait until everything hits retail and you'll be set.

I get the feeling that people are becoming more and more entitled with miniatures and gaming projects as Kickstarter itself ages. They're expecting tons of freebies, lots of stretch goals, and constant feedback from creators. It's really disappointing to see the fun and excitement completely sucked out of a campaign due to the negativity, whining, and general "me me me"
attitude that plagues the KS comments and updates sections. Seems like people just can't be satisfied with what they're getting any more....

Also, it's great to see all the doom and gloom predictions a few days into a month-long campaign.

~iPaint

You can think its sad all you want, but if they were labelled as exclusive to get people to buy them (for whatever reason) and then sell them later on another KS or their shop, well thats just... crappy. Its just bad business to say one thing and do another, especially with some of the bad press I've seen surrounding their finances and delivery times. I mean, what if they promise retail for SDE is 100$, sell it to you for 100$ on KS and then it retails for 80$? Will you be the "Sad" one because you don't want other people to save money?

 Cyporiean wrote:

 Buzzsaw wrote:


As an aside, the updating on this project has been shockingly bad. I get that they are now at a convention, but this is poor to the point of causing concern over basic competence.

GAMA is barely a convention in the traditional sense, aside from like 8 hours over two days there is no needing to be chained to an exhibitor booth. The show is more about retailers attending seminars put on by the big boys then anything else.

and I'm fairly sure there was free wifi in the hall...

Maybe.. they should have waited until after GAMA? Dunno. maybe it would feth with their end dates too much - just throwing it out there, though.

 -iPaint- wrote:


I get the feeling that people are becoming more and more entitled with miniatures and gaming projects as Kickstarter itself ages. They're expecting tons of freebies, lots of stretch goals, and constant feedback from creators. It's really disappointing to see the fun and excitement completely sucked out of a campaign due to the negativity, whining, and general "me me me"
attitude that plagues the KS comments and updates sections. Seems like people just can't be satisfied with what they're getting any more....

Also, it's great to see all the doom and gloom predictions a few days into a month-long campaign.

~iPaint

The issue is: someone is literally saying "Give me an interest free loan and in 10-18 months I will give you your money back in product."

If you want to make full MSRP profit on your models, then *YOU* assume the risk, you front the capital or get a loan and pay the interest.

I don't think it is unreasonable for people to want deep discounts. We all know what it actually costs to make these products, we also know what they sell it to retailers to so we feel like we should be rewarded for our 'interest free loan' and want product at that 40-45% discount of MSRP that retailers get it at. That is not entitlement since they are asking us for our money. If they want large profit, then they need to release this at retail and I will pay retail for the benefit of having it immediately. In fact, I wish I could get it right now the way they promised 9 months ago for 2014 Q1 release...

EXCLUSIVES are one of the ways Kickstarter campaigns hedge their profit... You may not be getting as deep a discount, but you get stuff you *CAN'T* get at retail. If they want to do no exclusives, so be it, but you immediately see the response... "Not an exclusive? I don't need to get it now then, I will wait for retail". If those add-ons were exclusives, every single one of the 2000 backers would have immediately added 10$. RIght now, there are 2203 backers which means 220,300$ is for 100$ pledges. that is 31k of add-ons or 'doubles'. That is an average of 14$ per backer on add-ons... It is clear people are not pledging the add-ons in force.

I am not saying exclusives are 'required' or even 'good' but it drives pledges... and when your core discount is weak, that is a hard sell. People are more tolerant of paying overpriced add-ons which help dilute the loss on the core set when the core set is a retailer discount.

So don't give me the "Support a company, the honor of backing this KS' Bullcrap. They are asking for an interest free loan and to have us assume the risk... 10% discount from MSRP is not a good deal for 9+ months of our waiting. Overpriced stretch goals which lack value lack incentive to pledge.

Also: while I don't care about exclusives, if someone said something was, it needs to stay that way. If you want to have no exclusives, fine. But don't make them and then renege on it because you miss-managed your company, got caught with your pants down with a competitor's product and are broke and see a way to sell exclusives for more cash. Exclusives help KSs as you can deeper discount your core set and then guarantee overpriced add-ons to recoup that cost. You have to drive down the core value to get people in.

nkelsch wrote:


I don't think it is unreasonable for people to want deep discounts. We all know what it actually costs to make these products, we also know what they sell it to retailers to so we feel like we should be rewarded for our 'interest free loan' and want product at that 40-45% discount of MSRP that retailers get it at. That is not entitlement since they are asking us for our money. If they want large profit, then they need to release this at retail and I will pay retail for the benefit of having it immediately. In fact, I wish I could get it right now the way they promised 9 months ago for 2014 Q1 release...

I am not saying exclusives are 'required' or even 'good' but it drives pledges... and when your core discount is weak, that is a hard sell. People are more tolerant of paying overpriced add-ons which help dilute the loss on the core set when the core set is a retailer discount.

So don't give me the "Support a company, the honor of backing this KS' Bullcrap. They are asking for an interest free loan and to have us assume the risk... 10% discount from MSRP is not a good deal for 9+ months of our waiting. Overpriced stretch goals which lack value lack incentive to pledge.

Just to continue on a theme, I can't say how often I have had to point this out, but: Money today is worth more then money tomorrow.

If you pay full retail for a product that isn't shipped for 6 months, then you have functionally paid more then retail.

This is one of the most irritating counter-complaints when people bring up the importance of a discount: putting aside the issue of looking at things as an investment, given the long turn-around of most KS campaigns, a discount is necessary to avoid the backers paying more then retail.

 DaveC wrote:
Latest word from Deke on the SPM forum on shipping now includes Asia Pacific

We are currently working on securing fulfillment houses in the EU and Asia Pacific so that shipping charges can be as reasonable as possible, as well as remove or reduce any VAT charges. As those deals are finalized we will post an update with more details.

You really do need to wonder why companies don't look into this before they launch their campaigns.

 squall018 wrote:
You can think its sad all you want, but if they were labelled as exclusive to get people to buy them (for whatever reason) and then sell them later on another KS or their shop, well thats just... crappy. Its just bad business to say one thing and do another, especially with some of the bad press I've seen surrounding their finances and delivery times. I mean, what if they promise retail for SDE is 100$, sell it to you for 100$ on KS and then it retails for 80$? Will you be the "Sad" one because you don't want other people to save money?

Pledging solely for exclusives is a rather poor investment, imo, since there's no guarantee that they will be exclusive. Nothing is stopping other backers from selling their "exclusives" to other non-backers, or companies offering limited amounts of excess product at retail or cons or as prizes for competitions, and at that point your "exclusives" are no longer exclusive. It's a gimmick. For instance, several people have said they will wait to buy the add-on purchases at retail. That's understandable. But pledging on a campaign solely for the potential re-sale of exclusives, or for with an "I have it you don't," mentality, is pretty dumb imo. Pledge for the product being offered and for the enjoyment and longevity you see it having.

The only time I'd really be bothered by pricing is if what I'm getting via a Kickstarter ends up exorbitantly cheaper at retail - but then, it's an assumed risk when backing. There's nothing forcing anyone's hand here to pledge for this campaign. For $100, you get what the campaign promises at the time of delivery. Chances are it will be a better deal than what you get at retail, but maybe not. Maybe it's delayed, maybe its cheaper later due to the Kickstarter allowing the company to cut costs and pass on savings. It's a risk we take as backers and as forerunners of a product or technology.

And yes, it goes a long way when companies have a good track record for delivering product. It also helps when backers aren't constantly breathing down a creator's neck and looking for any excuse to cast blame, doubt, or naysaying their way. Have a little faith, and if you get burned for it, vote with your wallet and let others know of the assumed risk.

~iPaint

iPaint,

I think nkelsch and Buzzsaw rather eloquently pointed out why this KS isn't offering a great deal for the backers money. I get that you really like either this game or this company. But let me put it this way. They have 2000 backers. They said $75k paid for the base game molds. To then make the core pledge will probably cost between $25-30 per pledger, so lets say $60k, plus another $20k in their shipping discount. So that brings us to $155k. The free add-ons cost less than $5 per backer, so that is another another $10k. So $165k to actually produce what they're giving away right now, and you pay the rest of the postage to your house. KS/Amazon take their cut off the top of $25k, and we have a grand total of $190k. Meaning right now, they are pocketing probably $50k.

So no, I don't feel that great about either the company or the game to sit here and applaud their KS, as they aren't giving anything back to the backers. But I won't naysay all of you who think they're treating you guys like kings. I just don't understand your viewpoint of lining their pockets, when you've expanded their profit margin on the backside of this exponentially when this game and any expansions/heroes/bosses you unlock hit the market. I just don't see the same "taking care of the backers" that other companies understandably extend.

But we're only on day 3. Won't this all be moot as the campaign progresses? Just saying.

I tend to agree as well with what everyone is saying about their concerns with this campaign regarding SPM and ND's track record from previous projects. Trust me, I've seen the RRT and RK threads. But I think it's a bit too early in the campaign to be saying it's a bad deal, and I'm willing to give them a shot and see how they manage outside of CMON's umbrella. This will be my first KS that SPM has been involved in, and I pledged for the Raging Heroes KS, too. So there's that. I can be patient and understanding. To a degree. But we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.

Also, I can pay $100 now and get the free stuff that's unlocked as the campaign progresses, passing on all of the add-ons to get them at retail later if I want. I'll probably be getting a good deal when all's said and done with just the $100. Maybe not. Again, too early to tell. Depends what the retail prices (and online discounted prices) are for the add-ons.

The thing is, I can either pay now and help fund this project at the price they're offering, or wait and see what the discounts look like later once it's hit retail. Maybe one option is better than the other. Who knows. That's one of the risks I'm willing to take right now. If the campaign turns stagnant near the final days, then yes, it may be better to wait for retail. As of now, SPM does not have my money, so I'm content to see what my $100 gets me in the interim.

And I literally just got SDE yesterday. Not looking forward to the assembly process. Heard it takes a good chunk of time. Also, models much smaller than online pics make them out to be...gonna be fun painting them.

~iPaint

 -iPaint- wrote:

I tend to agree as well with what everyone is saying about their concerns with this campaign regarding SPM and ND's track record from previous projects. Trust me, I've seen the RRT and RK threads. But I think it's a bit too early in the campaign to be saying it's a bad deal, and I'm willing to give them a shot and see how they manage outside of CMON's umbrella.
~iPaint

The fact that they didn't have EU shipping sorted before hand is a bit puzzling.

 cincydooley wrote:

 -iPaint- wrote:

I tend to agree as well with what everyone is saying about their concerns with this campaign regarding SPM and ND's track record from previous projects. Trust me, I've seen the RRT and RK threads. But I think it's a bit too early in the campaign to be saying it's a bad deal, and I'm willing to give them a shot and see how they manage outside of CMON's umbrella.
~iPaint

The fact that they didn't have EU shipping sorted before hand is a bit puzzling.

Yeah, shipping may have been something CMON had connections with. Maybe SPM will have a solution soon before they lose out on the international market.

Also, it's a bit disappointing, too, that Kickstarter has not made it easier to allow for non-US companies to get involved in creating projects.

~iPaint

 cincydooley wrote:

 -iPaint- wrote:

I tend to agree as well with what everyone is saying about their concerns with this campaign regarding SPM and ND's track record from previous projects. Trust me, I've seen the RRT and RK threads. But I think it's a bit too early in the campaign to be saying it's a bad deal, and I'm willing to give them a shot and see how they manage outside of CMON's umbrella.
~iPaint

The fact that they didn't have EU shipping sorted before hand is a bit puzzling.

They don't have International shipping sorted for their online store either. Ordering directly from them is terrible for International people.

'Not having it sorted out' means one of two things:

*Lip service because they simply do not care about those pledges and don't expect to lose may pledges or feel people will pledge regardless.

or

*They are waiting to see how much it actually impacts the campaign and comparing it to quotes from re-shipping companies before they agree to anything.

What is the point of agreeing to an expensive contract for regional redistribution and then dramatically underperform with pledges so the re-distribution costs more than international shipping?

Basically they are waiting to see if it is worth their time, or are just lazy and incompetent.

 -iPaint- wrote:

 squall018 wrote:
You can think its sad all you want, but if they were labelled as exclusive to get people to buy them (for whatever reason) and then sell them later on another KS or their shop, well thats just... crappy. Its just bad business to say one thing and do another, especially with some of the bad press I've seen surrounding their finances and delivery times. I mean, what if they promise retail for SDE is 100$, sell it to you for 100$ on KS and then it retails for 80$? Will you be the "Sad" one because you don't want other people to save money?

Pledging solely for exclusives is a rather poor investment, imo, since there's no guarantee that they will be exclusive. Nothing is stopping other backers from selling their "exclusives" to other non-backers, or companies offering limited amounts of excess product at retail or cons or as prizes for competitions, and at that point your "exclusives" are no longer exclusive. It's a gimmick. For instance, several people have said they will wait to buy the add-on purchases at retail. That's understandable. But pledging on a campaign solely for the potential re-sale of exclusives, or for with an "I have it you don't," mentality, is pretty dumb imo. Pledge for the product being offered and for the enjoyment and longevity you see it having.

The only time I'd really be bothered by pricing is if what I'm getting via a Kickstarter ends up exorbitantly cheaper at retail - but then, it's an assumed risk when backing. There's nothing forcing anyone's hand here to pledge for this campaign. For $100, you get what the campaign promises at the time of delivery. Chances are it will be a better deal than what you get at retail, but maybe not. Maybe it's delayed, maybe its cheaper later due to the Kickstarter allowing the company to cut costs and pass on savings. It's a risk we take as backers and as forerunners of a product or technology.

And yes, it goes a long way when companies have a good track record for delivering product. It also helps when backers aren't constantly breathing down a creator's neck and looking for any excuse to cast blame, doubt, or naysaying their way. Have a little faith, and if you get burned for it, vote with your wallet and let others know of the assumed risk.

~iPaint

I completely agree that its a gimmick. Its just to say something is exclusive and then have it not be within a relatively short amount of time just seems shady. I have backed this game, as well as AQ because I like the look of both (I don't have the original SDE) but it just seems that from what I'm seeing SPM isn't as reliable as CMON, and to call people sad for being upset and calling them out on it probably isn't legit. Its more sad that they are reneging on their word in the 1st place. If you want to agree to disagree we can, as I don't want to go too far OT.

 squall018 wrote:
I completely agree that its a gimmick. Its just to say something is exclusive and then have it not be within a relatively short amount of time just seems shady. I have backed this game, as well as AQ because I like the look of both (I don't have the original SDE) but it just seems that from what I'm seeing SPM isn't as reliable as CMON, and to call people sad for being upset and calling them out on it probably isn't legit. Its more sad that they are reneging on their word in the 1st place. If you want to agree to disagree we can, as I don't want to go too far OT.

Yeah, I'm cool with that. I'm sort of happy this KS will be exclusive-less, since it means anyone who missed the KS will still be able to get cool stuff in the end (just maybe not for the KS price). Too many exclusives *cough Zombicide cough* and players feel left out if they're late to the party. Just enough, though, and it feels like you were part of something special, but not head and shoulders above everyone else in terms of stuff you got for being a backer.

Eh, in the end it's just plastic crack, anyway

~iPaint

 TheSecretSquig wrote:
The RK SDE models really have pee'd me off. I bought 2 sets, simply because as a collector, I like to have exclusive models no one else has.

I ordered SDE the instant it came, and have kept up with all the special editions. I know I was visiting the Soda Pop website and forums frequently during the RK kickstarter, because it was around the time Roxor came out. I had that on preorder, and for months surrounding its release I was constantly combing the website for tidbits on the new expansion, and what people thought of the new characters, strategies etc... Not once did I have even the slightest inkling that there were a whole swath of special SDE figures being released as part of a different game. I didn't know anything about it until months later when the first sculpts started showing up.

I felt every bit as cheated as you, perhaps more so. Worst case for you is that you just sell them, I know it's annoying and not ideal, but you should at least break-even. For me it completely boned my whole collection. I actually stopped buying SDE stuff after VDM because there was no point trying to get everything anymore. Picking up those models on ebay would have been a nightmare.

Now I'm not saying exclusives and limited editions are all bad. But that one in particular was done badly. There are a lot of SDE players who don't play RK, and a lot of them were pretty butthurt that this one went so far under the radar. Giving SDE players a chance to pick up the crossovers in the webstore was the right call.

 -iPaint- wrote:

Wait, you bought the Relic Knights SDE minis solely on the purpose of "I have it and you don't, neener-neener-neener!", and that was it? Not to use the models in game, or paint them, but just to spite others who don't have them?

That's....sad. So far, SPM has not previewed anything in this campaign that will be KS-exclusive, so it seems like there's no reason for you to even take part in it, judging by what you've said. Just wait until everything hits retail and you'll be set.

~iPaint

So why do people pay $1,000's for those exclusive hard to find collectable items? I bought 2 sets. 1 to game with, 1 to paint and pt on display. I like owning something that not many people have, unique. Why are there so many 'limited edition' models, books, etc. It's all part of the hobby.

So, when you buy something, listed as being 'exclusive', then 18 months down the line (having not yet received your 'exclusive' item) the producing company puts them onto general release, yes, it's going to annoy people. I love the SPM, I own most of the RK in metal (see my painted models on here!) and I still backed the KS. But at the moment, it's a company that is running 12 months late on it's biggest commitment, is running low on cash to fore fill it's commitments, and now is bringing in ways to raise a significant amount of cash. Making previous 'exclusives' now general release is 1 way of doing that, but sure, it's going to put people off them. I'm sure they've done the math to work out push people away Vs cash earned from the models.

I've backed the project as I like the models and game. But, at the moment (and I know there's 27 days to go), add on shipping and customs duties, loss of money for 10 months, I'm better off just waiting for retail as I'm not going to be missing out on anything 'exclusive'. IMO.

Yep- if something's advertised as exclusive or otherwise limited, stick to your guns. Again, it's fine if there's a non-limited alternate sculpt, but, well, it's why I don't trust CMoN's concept of limited on their site, which means "until we run out, but before we do another run."

SMV's strictly limited and numbered edition is solid, KD's numbered first edition and then later regular edition is okay, Wyrd's "you'll have a few chances to grab this before we clean out our stock" is okay. I totally understand why people who bought something as "limited" are now annoyed.

 cincydooley wrote:

 -iPaint- wrote:

I tend to agree as well with what everyone is saying about their concerns with this campaign regarding SPM and ND's track record from previous projects. Trust me, I've seen the RRT and RK threads. But I think it's a bit too early in the campaign to be saying it's a bad deal, and I'm willing to give them a shot and see how they manage outside of CMON's umbrella.
~iPaint

The fact that they didn't have EU shipping sorted before hand is a bit puzzling.

I suspect the original plan was to use the same EU fulfilment company Cyper (their Ninja Divison partner) used for Hell Dorado,

unfortunately there is some sort of hiccup/snag/who knows what which means the Hell Dorado stuff for Europe has still not shipped (although Cypher is meant to be updating us on this soon)

so Soda Pop are probably waiting to find out whether than can use them or have to shop around for a new service

 Salacious Greed wrote:
But I won't naysay all of you who think they're treating you guys like kings. I just don't understand your viewpoint of lining their pockets, when you've expanded their profit margin on the backside of this exponentially when this game and any expansions/heroes/bosses you unlock hit the market. I just don't see the same "taking care of the backers" that other companies understandably extend.

You've made some reasonable points so far, but I wouldn't kid yourself that the 2303 backers think they are getting a great deal from SPM. When you have a bare bones KS like this, you really have to ask yourself:

1) Is this product going to get released anyway if they don't hit their funding target?
2) Do you give a feth if it doesn't get made?

I think the writing is on the wall that - for whatever reason - SPM don't have the capital to make this thing happen properly, in a timely fashion or even at all without the money from KS . They don't have the connections, the luxury of time or indeed the money to tart up the KS to draw in more people. Taking care of the backers, as you put it, is always highly appreciated but it is hardly an obligation and the consequence of not doing so is simply fewer backers and less $$$ for the founder and that's just something that everyone has to deal with. Don't forget that there is an option on almost every KS to chuck the founder some money without getting anything at all in return. Madness, right? So for me the answer to 1 is "No".. and the answer to 2 is "Yes", because it's a game I have enjoyed playing with both my friends and my kids, and I would like the opportunity to continue to do so with new content.

Now, I guess I could have withdrawn my pledge once it was funded because, hey! It's okay now guys, it's going to happen, they don't need my money any more.. but I think you also have to look at the bigger picture too. Between the SPM/CMoN split (whatever that has cost them, and whatever that will cost them in the future), the whole RK thing and whatever the situation is regarding Robotech, I would say that things are not looking good for SPM in the next 12 months. By investing in this game now, SPM are getting more out of me than they would at retail and so in a way, I guess I'm investing in SPM themselves. Maybe that 'extra' money is going to help fund the development of the next SDE expansion, or help to ensure that the RK pledges do actually get delivered. Maybe it's going to contribute to some pot of money they will throw at the Robotech problem to get things moving again. Hell, maybe it's just going to fund a few more photo shoots with Marie-Claude. Whatever happens to it, as long as it helps to ensure that SPM are still around this time next year and still putting out content for the game I play, then I don't have a problem with that.

So instead of bitching about how the value isn't there and how the existing backers are blindly stuffing SPM's pockets with cash, what you should be saying is "Thanks for volunteering to fund this project for me, chumps! Now I can buy it at retail for less that what you suckers paid for it and I don't have to lose any sleep over the injustice of all that extra profit they made on the interest."

.. and to that I would say "You're welcome."

..and possibly "Feel free to kiss my ass any time"