New Chaos Space Marines Release- March 7 Update - Orders Up

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**Joyboozer**

It's a plague havoc.

**Lockark**

Joyboozer wrote:
It's a plague havoc.

Your going to have to help me out. Was that a older modle they use to sell?

Because it's not in either of the two plague marine kits you can actually buy ATM, neither have that modle.

Also if that is a OOP modle, then i guess they are bringing it back for purchase. Sort of new i guess. If they bring back the good deamonettes i will get excited.

**-DE-**

It's a plasma gun Plague Marine from the Plague Marine Havocs box that hasn't been available for years.

It included a metal champion, four torso fronts with two plasmas, one melta, and one flamer, 8 shoulder pads, and 4 heads. Legs, backpacks, and torso backs were plastic. For this reason I doubt they're bringing them back.

**MajorStoffer**

So out of the pre-existing Chaos rumours, the one which, so far, is true is the least interesting?

Truth be told, going by the product sheet, if CSM are just getting reboxed, the kind of kills the rumour of new CSM doesn't it?

Granted, Havocs/Chosen might still be a thing for the following week, but I think if they're reboxing CSM, I think that means we're stuck with their fugly sculpts for a good long while yet, like Crisis Suits.

**H.B.M.C.**

MajorStoffer wrote:
So out of the pre-existing Chaos rumours, the one which, so far, is true is the least interesting?

Well I think it's interesting. Dreadnoughts are one of the things I love most about 40K, and a completely new kit for Chaos with all the weapon options is great.

**monders**

After having no interest in Chaos Marines (apart from Abaddon and Terms) for nigh on 22 years, these Crimson Slaughter dudes look well decent and have actually made me consider starting a CSM army... once I've finished my Eldar of ocurse (ahem)

Nicely timed for Army Painter's Chaotic Red release, too!

**fyurian**

Don't bother with csm unless you really really really like the look.
And even then think twice money is better spent on... well almost any other army

**streetsamurai**

so it seems the crimsom slaughter book is a codex and not a codex supplement, unless they changed the designations.

**Goresaw**

Nice, just one more full Codex that will need to get updated every cycle, further delaying my 4th edition orks.

**Nightlord1987**

I've always been a fan of those Nurgle Havocs and can NEVER find them online (or anywhere).

As for the Crimson Slaughter, if it allows some Allying with yourself shenanigans, it might actually be useful. After all, my Fast attack and Heavies are currently Maxed out.

I was planning on painting up my spare models (Bikers, Havocs, Terminators, CSM) in different Legion colors (AL, NL, IW, and Sons of Malice) but if this release has anything to offer, I could just paint em red! Though I was really hoping for the VOTLW supplement, and it is doubtful they would do TWO chaos books in one month...

**Musashi363**

H.B.M.C. when it comes to chaos, I think we agree on everything. Unless the crimson slaughter codex comes with legion tactics, I'm not buying it.

**Wayniac**

Something that might be of note is that the Sentinels of Terra book, also a hardcover, doesn't say that it's a codex; it's name is Sentinels of Terra: A Codex Supplement and the actual text says Sentinels of Terra: A Codex Space Marines Supplement.

I'm not sure if the wording "Codex" here is just for the product release, but it could be something to mean this is actually Codex: Crimson Slaughter and not Crimson Slaughter: A Codex Chaos Space Marines Supplement.

Maybe, just maybe, it's a reboot like the 3.5 Chaos codex over a decade ago?

I'm witholding judgment to see what it actually is. Since I haven't actually even started playing again, this could be the catalyst that pushes me once more towards the dark gods (I was a Chaos player in 2nd and 3rd

)

**l0k1**

I'm slightly disappointed that they chose to do a supplement on an obscure warband rather than a legion that has a great established story. If, however, it adds some kind of new tactic, strategy, or makes a unit playable, then I'll be less disappointed.

As far as models are concerned, I'm really hoping they release all the models that have been rumored rather than doing some now and some in a few months. I want plastic Havocs!!!

**streetsamurai**

i hope they also release some cultist kit. and that they are pretty different than the dark vengeance one (which are great, but i'd like to have lots of differenet looking cultist)

**SickSix**

streetsamurai wrote:
so it seems the crimsom slaughter book is a codex and not a codex supplement, unless they changed the designations.

You mean like Codex: Legion of the Damned is a full 'Codex'?

**Nevelon**

SickSix wrote:
streetsamurai wrote:
so it seems the crimsom slaughter book is a codex and not a codex supplement, unless they changed the designations.

You mean like Codex: Legion of the Damned is a full 'Codex'?

The word “Codex” has been so abused and twisted, it’s no longer useful. While not a new thing (Codex : Assassins being a quite old reference) the trend has become much worse these days. You can’t even rely on price points to give you a clue. The Knight codex for $40 for a one unit army? Why is this not a dataslate?

I hope this is a real book. I hope it will let chaos marine players actually play chaos marines; it’s been a while since I’ve seen any hit the table. But I’m getting bad vibes off of the whole mess. We’ll see what happens.

**Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
"Chaos shouldn't have Legion rules" is the mantra of the people who either hate fun, or are afraid of losing.

No. “Chaos should not have Legion rules” is more like the mantra of some self-centered egoistic loyalist marines players (not representative of all loyalist marine players) that jealously cling to their special treatment. They do not hate fun, they hate the idea other people might have as much fun as they do. The idea of loyalist being put on the same footing as the other factions of the game is unbearable to them.
Also maybe a few jealous players of xenos/IG/AS armies, but not too many. Because those are too busy rightly complaining about loyalist marines getting five different codexes to care about Chaos getting a few extra rules.

**Wayniac**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
"Chaos shouldn't have Legion rules" is the mantra of the people who either hate fun, or are afraid of losing.

No. “Chaos should not have Legion rules” is more like the mantra of self-centered egoistic loyalist marines players that jealously cling to their special treatment. They do not hate fun, they hate the idea other people might have as much fun as they do. The idea of loyalist being put on the same footing as the other factions of the game is unbearable to them.
Also maybe a few jealous players of xenos/IG/AS armies, but not too many. Because those are too busy rightly complaining about loyalist marines getting five different codexes to care about Chaos getting a few extra rules.

Personally I think they should just include all the SM chapter stuff in a single book, not multiples. Same with Chaos. Have the "generic warband" made up of everything, and then include the special stuff for all of the legions, including cult legions, and THEN have some extra stuff for actual Renegades that are more recent; even if it was something like being able to take a choice or two from the regular SM Codex (and hey, then they could get people to buy a second codex!) instead of some Chaos things.

**alphaecho**

I'm at a crossroads with my Chaos Marine army.

I've been a Night Lords owner since 2nd Ed and I think I was initially drawn to them because of their imagery and as it was at the time, lack of Special rules. Plus they were not necessarily very Chaotic..just really bitter and nasty.

I've never included Berzerkers, Plague Marines, Thousand Sons or Emperor's Children/ Slaanesh in my army. I've never included Daemons, it was always just standard Chaos Marines, Terminators and vehicles. Where possible I avoided using all of the horned helmets although until the plastics came out it couldn't really be avoided.

I'd like these Crimson Slaughter rules to reflect recently turned Renegades and allow me to field Night Lords for whom the Heresy was only 50 - 100 years ago, just like in ADB's books. I know to some extent that can be achieved with the FW books but I'd rather spend some of that £70 cost on some FW Heresy Marines.

Failing that...I don't spend anything.

**The Grumpy Eldar**

I'd rather have CSM supplements dedicated to one of the gods instead to a specific legion.

At least i'm glad as it seems to be in book format at least? I hate the only digital bull they pulled on a lot of stuff.

**kronk**

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
"Chaos shouldn't have Legion rules" is the mantra of the people who either hate fun, or are afraid of losing.

No. “Chaos should not have Legion rules” is more like the mantra of self-centered egoistic loyalist marines players that jealously cling to their special treatment. They do not hate fun, they hate the idea other people might have as much fun as they do. The idea of loyalist being put on the same footing as the other factions of the game is unbearable to them.
Also maybe a few jealous players of xenos/IG/AS armies, but not too many. Because those are too busy rightly complaining about loyalist marines getting five different codexes to care about Chaos getting a few extra rules.

So much hatred in this thread. As I've said, I think Crimson Slaughter was a silly choice when they could have done Alpha Legion or Thousand Sons. As another person mentioned, Red Corsairs would also have been a great choice.

I'm not sure why the hatred for loyalist players and the sweeping statements, either. What Space Wolf player would begrudge a Thousand Sons player a codex/supplement? What Imperial Fists player (via Sentinels of Terra) would deny an Iron Warriors player a codex/supplement?

*Checks my Forge World HH Book 1 and 2*

Legion rules for Word Bearers, Night Lords, Sons of Horus, World Eaters, Emperor's Children, Iron Hands, Salamanders, Raven Guard.

"...you may all go to hell and I will go to [play with my Legion rules!]" Davy Crockett [paraphrased, but essentially the same thing]. I bet old Davy would have played Imperial Fists. Sons of Dorn!

<--- Owns Chaos and Loyalist armies.

**Brometheus**

What's funny is that it's not just CSM players that are chomping at the bit for Legion stuff..

The last game I played was against an Ultramarines player with Dark Angels allies. I ended up stomping his army and after the game he said "Dude, they really need to give you some good Thousand Sons rules"

So if loyalist players are even saying CSM need better representation, you'd think GW would listen right!

**rohansoldier**

I am liking the look of the chaos dreadnoughts (sorry I can't bring myself to call them the other name in the codex) and might pick up a couple eventually if the price is half sensible.

Like other people though, I am completely baffled by the crimson slaughter release. At least the black legion have history, even if they are the ultramarines of chaos (i.e generic).

Any of the traitor legions would have been a better idea than this and almost guaranteed to be an instant hit with chaos fans.

We don't need a supplement for each traitor legion, we just need a simple set of legion tactics like the loyalists got with their chapters.

**Wayniac**

Brometheus wrote:
What's funny is that it's not just CSM players that are chomping at the bit for Legion stuff..

The last game I played was against an Ultramarines player with Dark Angels allies. I ended up stomping his army and after the game he said "Dude, they really need to give you some good Thousand Sons rules"

So if loyalist players are even saying CSM need better representation, you'd think GW would listen right!

Of course not, it's GW. A Crimson Slaughter codex is for all the Dark Vengeance newbs and will tie into that summer campaign aimed at newbies with Dark Vengeance, while a specific legion will generally only appeal to players of that legion as legion choice tends to be personal tastes and legion players tend to be as devoted as many SM players, so a Night Lords supplement is going to do nothing for an Iron Warriors player just like a Wolf player doesn't care about Blood Angels.

That said though, having just finished reading the Dark Vengeance novella and looking forward to Crimson Dawn, the Slaughter have kinda grown on me, but I don' think they deserve a codex of their own unless it's going to be for Renegades versus Traitors, as the fluff states that they turned renegade in 928.M41 and if the current year is 995.M41 that means they've only been renegade for almost 70 years, so not very long at all (although neither were the Corsairs; the Badab war was like 10 years before that).

Spoiler:

**ashikenshin**

I'm a newbie in things chaos, my chaos space marines are still only basecoated and I'm deciding on which scheme to paint them. I have a lot of normal csm but not many specialists or cultists, hopefully this crimsom slaughter will make them usable again? and make the hell brute not as bad.

**Ignatius-Grulgor**

Lockark wrote:
Joyboozer wrote:
It's a plague havoc.

Your going to have to help me out. Was that a older modle they use to sell?

Because it's not in either of the two plague marine kits you can actually buy ATM, neither have that modle.

Also if that is a OOP modle, then i guess they are bringing it back for purchase. Sort of new i guess. If they bring back the good deamonettes i will get excited.

I imagine both of those things would annoy a rather large chunk of the ebay market, the nurgle havocs usually go for anywhere between £20-£50 for 2-4 models usually when they actually show up and even that's a rarity now. As for the daemonettes I wouldn't mind got mine for a sane price, though I could totally use another 10 or so without paying £50 for them

I'm imagining the cultist kit at least will probably happen in a week or two, especially if the rumours of DV going out of print hold true.

**Platuan4th**

ashikenshin wrote:
and make the hell brute not as bad.

That won't require a Codex, that'll require an entirely new from the ground up edition.

**ZebioLizard2**

Platuan4th wrote:
ashikenshin wrote:
and make the hell brute not as bad.

That won't require a Codex, that'll require an entirely new from the ground up edition.

If it was still 5th edition, they wouldn't be so bad.

As it is, they are junk alongside most other AV12 dreads.

I still wish Daemonic possession just gave Daemon rules to things..Might've made it more worthwhile.

**kronk**

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

I still wish Daemonic possession just gave Daemon rules to things..Might've made it more worthwhile.

Total agreement, there.

**Skriker**

Slayer le boucher wrote:
Really?...Crimson Slaughter?...

The New Noob faction that no one cares?...

WHERE IS MY GOD BALLS DAMNED WORLD EATERS CODEX!!!!!!

You really gotta be kidding me...

And 33 pounds for a Brut?...damn...

Not really interested in the sub codecies, but it does seem pretty silly to release Crimson Slaughter before World Eaters, Thousand Sons, Death Guard and Emperor's Children.

The helbrute price wouldn't be too bad *if* it is a completely poseable kit and not just the helbrute from DV repackaged.

Skriker