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Is anything there that doesn't let you use whatever CSM models/theme you prefer and use the crimson slaughter rules?

You lose out on probably 2 of the best weapons in the game. The 2+ relic looks awesome but without being able to use the black mace (which I have found to be much better than the LC + PF combo) or the AoBF I don't see much use for it. Plus spawn are supposed to take your wounds anyway.
I also do not like paying for divination at all. It just seems wrong...

Possessed are still as bad as ever, people are just being delusional.

The warlord traits look slightly better, but not enough to make this worth it.

Free fear? Most things not immune to fear will fold in combat anyway, if you can get there...

Many people don't take an expensive HQ and instead prefer a naked Sorcerer, so lack of melee artifacts doesn't impact them. Apart from that, you get a slightly better Warlord table, which isn't much, but it's better, and free Fear, which might not be much, but might come into play and give you a minor edge. You also get Divination, though how playable the artifact is depends on its price. All these factors considered, Crimson Slaughter comes out on top of CSM, if ever so slightly. It's not much, but it is something, so I see no reason not to play Crimson Slaughter unless you need the Axe or the Mace.

 -DE- wrote:
Many people don't take an expensive HQ and instead prefer a naked Sorcerer, so lack of melee artifacts doesn't impact them. Apart from that, you get a slightly better Warlord table, which isn't much, but it's better, and free Fear, which might not be much, but might come into play and give you a minor edge. You also get Divination, though how playable the artifact is depends on its price. All these factors considered, Crimson Slaughter comes out on top of CSM, if ever so slightly. It's not much, but it is something, so I see no reason not to play Crimson Slaughter unless you need the Axe or the Mace.

I've never used the Mace on anything but a Flying Daemon Prince, and Daemon Princes aren't able to take the +2 armor relic anyway, so that works out if I wanted to take CS for some relics and regular codex for another.

The whole allying-with-yourself thing is pretty sweet in that regard.

Also, Cultists charging into combat and causing fear makes me laugh, a lot.

I think these rules are mostly pretty neat, even if Fear is so insanely situational.

The only thing in this book that stands out to me is giving possessed 'beasts'. but really, they are still going to deep strike and take intercept then overwatch fire - or cross the table in armor. so the 12" isnt going to be gamechanging. Cool for all the Crimson Slaughter fans out there though. >_<

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

 Kosake wrote:
Dunno. Sounds somehow better to me, than say the Black Legion Supplement. Could have used 1-2 special units or something, maybe another special character.

I am just talking personally. I am all for enhancing Chosen, they are pretty much my fav unit, but no VOTLW? Boo. Possessed, meh, don't like them. I prefer CSM with low mutation/possession count.

New artifacts and warlord traits, seem OK.

Still not tempted.

In some ways it does "sound better", but honestly I love the BL supplement, chosen as troops! I mean come on VOTLW rule is pretty sweet especially if you get the war lord trait preferred enemy. I took out 5 salamander termies with thunder hammer and storm shield on a charge! Think of it this way a squad of chosen with VOTLW, MoN, that trait I mentioned earlier, 4 plasma guns or lighting claws, a melta gun and lighting claw for the champ.... Boom easy day and I think it comes out to 305 for ten dudes, sure you could do plague marines with two plasma guns, but again, in my opinion it's way better. 2 attacks base is huge! And that hand of darkness is freaking sweet! I have it on a deamon prince of Tzeencth, and I call him my flying purple people eater! Let's just say I have had no bad days with the black legion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ps forgot to mention that vulkan he'stan was in the termie squad

Lvl 3 Divination Sorcerer for 135 points (60+50+25) is pretty sweet, Relic has built in familiar.

Divination is *huge* for CSM.

The strength of this book is allying to your standard CSM force.

You're adding a Divination guy, another Heldrake, and a tax of 10 cultists.

Prescience, Forewarning, Scryers Gaze, Precognition, Misfortune, and perfect timing are all potentially amazing for CSM. Foreboding is just... okay. Kindof really good.

 loreweaver wrote:
Lvl 3 Divination Sorcerer for 135 points (60+50+25) is pretty sweet, Relic has built in familiar.

Divination is *huge* for CSM.

The strength of this book is allying to your standard CSM force.

You're adding a Divination guy, another Heldrake, and a tax of 10 cultists.

Prescience, Forewarning, Scryers Gaze, Precognition, Misfortune, and perfect timing are all potentially amazing for CSM. Foreboding is just... okay. Kindof really good.

Yeah, most of the abilities are fairly pointless and the warlord traits are pretty bad. This will be an ally dex with Divination sorcerorer that adds +1 Cultist and +1 FA and HS to your army. Don't even need to know the other rules! Just like how Black Legion is "Gain additional FOC slots, and must buy Votlw for HQ". That's all you need to know.

 Kirasu wrote:

Yeah, most of the abilities are fairly pointless and the warlord traits are pretty bad. This will be an ally dex with Divination sorcerorer that adds +1 Cultist and +1 FA and HS to your army. Don't even need to know the other rules! Just like how Black Legion is "Gain additional FOC slots, and must buy Votlw for HQ". That's all you need to know.

I'd totally whip out a unit of Possessed for a beer and pretzels game. It's only 80pts more tax than 10 cultists.

I wonder if CS Helbrutes get free fear. Lookout for those beasts, they suck marginally less.

Wrecker wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

 Kosake wrote:
Dunno. Sounds somehow better to me, than say the Black Legion Supplement. Could have used 1-2 special units or something, maybe another special character.

I am just talking personally. I am all for enhancing Chosen, they are pretty much my fav unit, but no VOTLW? Boo. Possessed, meh, don't like them. I prefer CSM with low mutation/possession count.

New artifacts and warlord traits, seem OK.

Still not tempted.

In some ways it does "sound better", but honestly I love the BL supplement, chosen as troops! I mean come on VOTLW rule is pretty sweet especially if you get the war lord trait preferred enemy. I took out 5 salamander termies with thunder hammer and storm shield on a charge! Think of it this way a squad of chosen with VOTLW, MoN, that trait I mentioned earlier, 4 plasma guns or lighting claws, a melta gun and lighting claw for the champ.... Boom easy day and I think it comes out to 305 for ten dudes, sure you could do plague marines with two plasma guns, but again, in my opinion it's way better. 2 attacks base is huge! And that hand of darkness is freaking sweet! I have it on a deamon prince of Tzeencth, and I call him my flying purple people eater! Let's just say I have had no bad days with the black legion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ps forgot to mention that vulkan he'stan was in the termie squad

Except that's really, really expensive and not that great.

As a Word Bearer player, I really like this supplement.

Better Posssed as Troops, decent artifacts and enhancements are all pretty good for me.

$54 for the Hellbrute. Its an awesome model, but I am so glad I already have one from the DV set. Its all I need.

WayneTheGame wrote:
Since I'm now a fan of the Crimson Slaughter, I'm digging this.

You're not allowed to like it in this thread. The Cabal of the 3.5 Codex has decreed the groupthink to be anything that doesn't include Legion rules to be worthy of only scorn.

Despite mediocre things such as "everything gets fear" and possessed as troops, I actually really like this supplement. The artifacts are all good and the warlord traits are decent. I still wish this would have been a supplement about one of the traitor legions though. I wonder if GW will change the fear rule if the rumors about the summer rule book update are true.

I'm sorry to say this, but I'll be antagonistic towards anything Chaos until they make Legion stuff. Maybe its petty and immature, but that's how it is for me.

 warboss wrote:

WayneTheGame wrote:
Since I'm now a fan of the Crimson Slaughter, I'm digging this.

You're not allowed to like it in this thread. The Cabal of the 3.5 Codex has decreed the group think to be anything that doesn't include Legion rules to be worthy of only scorn.

Right, but whats the likely hood of actually getting chaos legion traits like C:SM, by now slim at best. I guess later down the road in HH there might be something like that, but can you expect the regular GW staff to give Chaos some actual love?

P.S. I agree the CS supplement sounds like a counts-as Word Bearers.

So... is Soul Siphon a weapon or not? the BoLS rumours only say tha the model gets X, but no weapon profile.

If it isn't it opens a whole new world of possibilities like paying a power maul and this buff, to eventually make it S7 AP2 I5 after 3 kills.

 Lord Yayula wrote:
So... is Soul Siphon a weapon or not? the BoLS rumours only say tha the model gets X, but no weapon profile.

If it isn't it opens a whole new world of possibilities like paying a power maul and this buff, to eventually make it S7 AP2 I5 after 3 kills.

It looks to be the Sword of the Relentless.

So does that mean Krannon has a profile in the codex?

 l0k1 wrote:
So does that mean Krannon has a profile in the codex?

Take a gander at the supplement's preview on the Black Library website. It seems that Kranon is equipped with 3 artefacts, plus a Plasma Pistol and SoC.

 SarisKhan wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
So does that mean Krannon has a profile in the codex?

Take a gander at the supplement's preview on the Black Library website. It seems that Kranon is equipped with 3 artefacts, plus a Plasma Pistol and SoC.

I saw that, but I was curious if he had his own entry/stat line/ point cost, or if it was more along the lines of "Hey, here are the weapons/relics Krannon uses, now just use the base Lord profiles and upgrades.

So are the possessed in this codex mind possessed only and therefor modeled without mutations? or do they have mutations like normal possessed csm?

haroon wrote:
So are the possessed in this codex mind possessed only and therefor modeled without mutations? or do they have mutations like normal possessed csm?

They're the good ol' Possessed Chaos Space Marines, complete with wings, horns, talons and tentacles.

What will the new hellbrute formations let us do I wonder?

 l0k1 wrote:
So does that mean Krannon has a profile in the codex?

No but it tells you what to take to build him. He's a Chaos Lord with Blade of Relentless (Soul Siphon blade), Daemonheart (2+ Armour + IWND), The Slaughterer's Horns (Furious Charge, HoW, Rage), Sigil of Corruption and a Plasma Pistol.

I have to say, as interesting as some of the Artifacts and rules are I'm really liking the fluff more than I expected. I really like the full on vendetta with the Dark Angels and Fabius Bile showing up to provide the newly Renegade Crimson Slaughter with tech to clone organs in exchange for their still loyal prisoners. Though I have to say I'm a big fan of Fabius Bile as it is so I can't be considered an objective source.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Wrecker wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

 Kosake wrote:
Dunno. Sounds somehow better to me, than say the Black Legion Supplement. Could have used 1-2 special units or something, maybe another special character.

I am just talking personally. I am all for enhancing Chosen, they are pretty much my fav unit, but no VOTLW? Boo. Possessed, meh, don't like them. I prefer CSM with low mutation/possession count.

New artifacts and warlord traits, seem OK.

Still not tempted.

In some ways it does "sound better", but honestly I love the BL supplement, chosen as troops! I mean come on VOTLW rule is pretty sweet especially if you get the war lord trait preferred enemy. I took out 5 salamander termies with thunder hammer and storm shield on a charge! Think of it this way a squad of chosen with VOTLW, MoN, that trait I mentioned earlier, 4 plasma guns or lighting claws, a melta gun and lighting claw for the champ.... Boom easy day and I think it comes out to 305 for ten dudes, sure you could do plague marines with two plasma guns, but again, in my opinion it's way better. 2 attacks base is huge! And that hand of darkness is freaking sweet! I have it on a deamon prince of Tzeencth, and I call him my flying purple people eater! Let's just say I have had no bad days with the black legion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ps forgot to mention that vulkan he'stan was in the termie squad

Except that's really, really expensive and not that great.

Yeah sure expensive but it's well rounded, troop choice/elite. Fire power all day close combat and re rolls....BOOM

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
So does that mean Krannon has a profile in the codex?

No but it tells you what to take to build him. He's a Chaos Lord with Blade of Relentless (Soul Siphon blade), Daemonheart (2+ Armour + IWND), The Slaughterer's Horns (Furious Charge, HoW, Rage), Sigil of Corruption and a Plasma Pistol.

I have to say, as interesting as some of the Artifacts and rules are I'm really liking the fluff more than I expected. I really like the full on vendetta with the Dark Angels and Fabius Bile showing up to provide the newly Renegade Crimson Slaughter with tech to clone organs in exchange for their still loyal prisoners. Though I have to say I'm a big fan of Fabius Bile as it is so I can't be considered an objective source.

So it's not a dedicated entry, does this mean you can give him marks and give him a bike or one of the other mounts? If so, that might be pretty amazing depending on the cost of all those
relics. A new biker lord setup is starting to form in my head

Is that sword a daemon weapon?

Wrecker wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Wrecker wrote:

 BrotherHaraldus wrote:

 Kosake wrote:
Dunno. Sounds somehow better to me, than say the Black Legion Supplement. Could have used 1-2 special units or something, maybe another special character.

I am just talking personally. I am all for enhancing Chosen, they are pretty much my fav unit, but no VOTLW? Boo. Possessed, meh, don't like them. I prefer CSM with low mutation/possession count.

New artifacts and warlord traits, seem OK.

Still not tempted.

In some ways it does "sound better", but honestly I love the BL supplement, chosen as troops! I mean come on VOTLW rule is pretty sweet especially if you get the war lord trait preferred enemy. I took out 5 salamander termies with thunder hammer and storm shield on a charge! Think of it this way a squad of chosen with VOTLW, MoN, that trait I mentioned earlier, 4 plasma guns or lighting claws, a melta gun and lighting claw for the champ.... Boom easy day and I think it comes out to 305 for ten dudes, sure you could do plague marines with two plasma guns, but again, in my opinion it's way better. 2 attacks base is huge! And that hand of darkness is freaking sweet! I have it on a deamon prince of Tzeencth, and I call him my flying purple people eater! Let's just say I have had no bad days with the black legion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ps forgot to mention that vulkan he'stan was in the termie squad

Except that's really, really expensive and not that great.

Yeah sure expensive but it's well rounded, troop choice/elite. Fire power all day close combat and re rolls....BOOM

That'll die as soon as a riptide or Wave Serpent takes a look at them.

Or really anything that can deal with them, popping the rhino loses their mobility fierce and they'll have issues getting up close to do their thing after that, they'll be beaten by major assault, or major shooting.

To be generalist is to be overexpensive.

What is new in the Land Raider kit? Why are they advertising it as a new release? Sorry, dont have the time to read thru 23 pages, so if someone could please explain to me what the issue with this is, I'd be grateful.

Also I assume the chaos bikers used to be metal?