Orktavius wrote:
Right on cue....another army book is on it's way and it OBVIOUSLY SUCKS DONKEY BALLS before anyone really has a chance to see it or play it.......just like the Tau book sucked donkey balls when it came out.....or the eldar book sucked donkey balls when it came out...or how tyranids would never EVER win a game when their book came out...or how space marines sucked donkey balls when they came out and even how the Astra Militarum (Imperial guard) sucked balls when they came out.

I sense a theme....it seems the theme is every books sucks donkey balls until people start using it. BTW, if you biggest complaint boils down to "The exact army I've been playing forever is not as awesome as it's always been" I have zero sympathy for you....armies change with every book, get over it and make a new awesome army.

Da Butcha wrote:

 Ascalam wrote:
Manz never has one anyway.

Manz are not terminators, so never had an inbuilt inv save, or any option to get one short of having grotsnik

Most incorrect. Mega-Armored Nobs used to have Medi-squigs. These were internal to their mega-armor and gave them, in addition to their 2+ save, an additional, subsequent, unmodified 4+ save vs. each wound. MANZ used to out-FNP anyone! This was a wonderful opportunity for GW, who was reviving all sorts of old things, like the Bubble Chukka, Tractor Kannon, etc. to revive something historical about Orks which would make their 'terminators' different from the Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines.


Unlike the 'true Terminators', you could have left Mega-Armored Nobs with only the Power Klaw option, and Slow and Purposeful rather than Relentless, and no Deep Striking, but given them back their medi-squigs, in the form of a 4+ FNP. This would make them distinct from termies, while keeping the 'no invulnerable saves' mantra that GW seemed to have adopted for some reason on Orks.

That's right. The race which re-invents Force Fields again and again, and uses them to crush people, and trap air around asteroids, etc, still can't figure out how to make an actual force field for armor.


This is why I think a lot of us are disappointed. I don't see the codex as unplayable, or 'tyranidded', or the new whipping boy. I see tons of potential, squandered and unrealized. I see incoherent changes and additions:

Long-standing (but not unchanged) background has orks being fond of projectile weapons, since they are very loud, and a bit dubious of a lot of energy weapons, which don't make satisfyingly loud noises. This is reflected with the Kannon and Lobba, and the Kilkannon and boomgun, and reiterated with Forgeworld with the Big Lobba, SupaKannon, Flakk Gun, Boom Gun, Mega-gatler, Krusha Kannon, Bursta Kannon, etc.

Then, GW produces new models, and doesn't update ancient projectile weapons, but produces 4 energy weapons. WTF?

But wait, the energy weapons hearken back to the glorious days of old! Waaaagh! Does the bubble chukka entrap things in force fields? Nope, it crushes them. What about the lifta-droppa? Nope, we dropped it. What about the Pulsa Rokkit? Nope, not in the book.

They can't get their act together. Some stuff is awesome (Pain boys where you want them!) Other stuff is dumb (transport walker with huge bay doors isn't an assault vehicle). Other stuff seems randomly odd (nobs can have heavy armor, unless they are in a unit without it, in which case they can't).

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
Well guys, you heard them. We can't complain. Better back it up and be happy with whatever life gives you. After all, there's staving children is africa who would be happy to get a new ork codex

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
Well guys, you heard them. We can't complain. Better back it up and be happy with whatever life gives you. After all, there's staving children is africa who would be happy to get a new ork codex

 PuddlePirate wrote:
I hate to sound like a dick, oh wait no i dont. Ork players have been crying and sobbing for YEARS over how old their book is and how their last one was an "artistic re-print", but now they finnally get some new stuff and it's all "the sky is falling! the sky is falling!" Don't get me wrong I'm and IG player who was dreading th IG rumors but guess what? I bought it, read it, and made it work and so did my Nid friend and so did my SM firend and so will my Ork friend... stop stressing out and enjoy the hobby for feth sake... it's just a game and games change. BTW i think Orks are gonna be a power house, assaulting the same turn you run? Sounds like they're getting a lil' bit of 5th back.

Loborocket wrote:

rothrich wrote:
I think that after playing with the codex a few times people will see that it is a definite upgrade. Waaagh is hugely upgraded! The old waaagh is now ere we go and can be used each and every turn. If you don't understand why this alone makes the new codex way better than the old something is wrong with you. The new waaagh is what every other assault army has wanted and has not gotten. we can run and then assault... What is not to love about that? The new mob rule is kind of a nerf but honestly it needed it. Tons of fearless mobs was almost silly. Now mob rule is actually a benefit to the smaller mobz. Everything got CHEAPER! well except boyz. Now we can take as many ard boyz squads as we want. so we can actually buy a save for our boyz mobz! This is a huge upgrade!!!! Mek gunz are awesome, flash gitz awesome, gorkamorka naughts awesome, buggies are awsomer! 5 outflanking heavy flamers??? Good luck surviving that anything! Now with the stompa in our actual codex it will be pretty hard for anyone to tell you that you can't use it. Maybe you cant use your regular codex entries then (looking at you riptide!) There are so many good things about this codex. The only reason that people are upset is that the lists that dominated 5th are not viable in 7th. Well that is the way that it goes. That is the goal of GW they want you to buy a new army full of new units!

I would agree with the post above. I think all the doomsayers need to take a deep breath and calm themselves. This is just a game after all. Perhaps play a game or 2 or at least watch a couple of battle reports before you cash in your chips.

On second thought, go ahead and cash in your chips, I am sure you will find players who will take models off your hands at steep discounts. Be sure and PM me if you are looking to unload some of your models!

 PuddlePirate wrote:
I hate to sound like a dick, oh wait no i dont. .

 MWHistorian wrote:

Yup, a game made for having fun. Doesn't matter if you don't find it fun, suck it up and continue on! What do you think this is, a game? How dare you not like something!

 Dakkamite wrote:
How much do bikers cost now?

If they're over 15 points, they didn't get *buffed* as I keep reading, because w/o exhaust cloud they're fragile as all hell (4+ armour is called the worst save in the game for good reason) and have gak leadership and a fast flee speed.

And no, losing half your accuracy for a 3+ cover is not an improvement over all your accuracy and 4+ cover!

Edit: Also, feth what they did to trukks. That gak is not cool.

 Dakkamite wrote:
How much do bikers cost now?

If they're over 15 points, they didn't get *buffed* as I keep reading, because w/o exhaust cloud they're fragile as all hell (4+ armour is called the worst save in the game for good reason) and have gak leadership and a fast flee speed.

And no, losing half your accuracy for a 3+ cover is not an improvement over all your accuracy and 4+ cover!

Edit: Also, feth what they did to trukks. That gak is not cool.

 Archon_Zarbyrn wrote:

How is a 4+ armor save the worse in the game?[...] I will agree that it often over priced and far to many heavy weapons flat out ignore it.

 Dakkamite wrote:

 Archon_Zarbyrn wrote:

How is a 4+ armor save the worse in the game?[...] I will agree that it often over priced and far to many heavy weapons flat out ignore it.

Because its overpriced and far too many heavy weapons flat out ignore it.

Also, Warbikers are pretty gak at melee for what they cost. Their old strengths were dakka and durability to heavy weapons. Now, they might be better dakka than before (assuming dakkaguns still the same?), but they're definitely not durable in the slightest, and even with their cheaper price I can't see them doing very much before getting blasted off of the table.

Edit: Also, enough with the hipsters parroting "sell me your army" and "hurr durr the sky is falling amirite". This codex looks like it has legitimate issues. They failed to fix a lot (not all) of the problems Orks had, whilst giving us many 'fixes' that we didn't want. People who are unhappy with what they see are right to be so, and your a bunch of dicks for saying that they are not.

Melevolence wrote:
Wait, i thought Cybork previously was what gave Nobz and HQ's a 5++ before. Now, it only gives a 6+ FNP? Why? Why would they even?

darkcloak wrote:

Melevolence wrote:
Wait, i thought Cybork previously was what gave Nobz and HQ's a 5++ before. Now, it only gives a 6+ FNP? Why? Why would they even?

6+ FNP ain't so bad, says Iron Hands.

Vankraken wrote:
The thing i don't really get with all of this is the relative randomness of all the changes that where made. While some of the stuff fixed really lacking units like Kommandos, Flash Gitz, and Tankbustas, most of the changes feel more like making changes for the sake of saying they made something different like the unique FOC for Orkz when you can just do a double FOC and get all the other much needed FOC slots for 1 additional HQ and troop. Who is gonna make a list that they need more than 6 troops and 2 HQs but not bother to take 3 more elite/fast/heavy slots?

I think this new dex has stuff to work with but honestly i feel like they made ideas for changes for each unit and just rolled dice to see which changes to each unit to make. Trukks got nerfed/changed because trukk lists where OP or that ramshackle was an uninteresting mechanic? I get that GW wants to sell plastic so they might nerf the current meta stuff to sell new things but honestly they don't really seem to have any reasoning or direction for a lot of these changes.

 Dakkamite wrote:
Also, Warbikers are pretty gak at melee for what they cost. Their old strengths were dakka and durability to heavy weapons. Now, they might be better dakka than before (assuming dakkaguns still the same?), but they're definitely not durable in the slightest, and even with their cheaper price I can't see them doing very much before getting blasted off of the table.