Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 ironicsilence wrote:
I really liked the movie, i'd like to see a timeline of where all the marvel movies and tv shows actually take place as it seems this this movie changes everything for shield which would impact the tv show and other movies

There's a reason that the episodes of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. lately have been tagged with the "UPRISING" label after the name.

 Kanluwen wrote:
There's a reason that the episodes of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. lately have been tagged with the "UPRISING" label after the name.

Like that amazing Thor 2 cross-over, where they cleaned up some rubble and then did something unrelated for an hour.

Sorry, but I can't get excited for SHIELD because it's let me down before. I don't think they have the stones to do anything interesting (ie. have Ward be a HYDRA Agent, totally shattering Skye's confidence in the process), and I'm convinced that the whole Clairvoyant thing has nothing to do with Zola/the algorithm/HYDRA and is just a meaningless sideshow.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
There's a reason that the episodes of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. lately have been tagged with the "UPRISING" label after the name.

Like that amazing Thor 2 cross-over, where they cleaned up some rubble and then did something unrelated for an hour.

Sorry, but I can't get excited for SHIELD because it's let me down before. I don't think they have the stones to do anything interesting (ie. have Ward be a HYDRA Agent, totally shattering Skye's confidence in the process), and I'm convinced that the whole Clairvoyant thing has nothing to do with Zola/the algorithm/HYDRA and is just a meaningless sideshow.

I agree that SHIELD definitely has been a big letdown so far. I'm tentative about the changes that we'll see thanks to Winter Soldier, but apparently the Baron Strucker scene was a Joss Whedon easter egg intended to drop hints for SHIELD--notably that all of these little fires that Coulson and his team have been dealing with(the Clairvoyant, Centipede, etc) are those other Hydra organizations that Strucker was willing to sacrifice to keep SHIELD thinking that they were making a real difference.

Strucker, not Zemo.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Strucker, not Zemo.

Thank you, HBMC. Some people in the theater would not shut the hell up during that and I missed the name...I'm more of a DC person when it comes to comics proper, so not hugely familiar with Marvel characters.

The guy talking to him says "Herr Strucker", so we get him rather than pinky pants. Zemo is super evil though. I'd love him to show up in another Cap film and sword-fight Steve.

Mmm, yeah that must have been right when the person wouldn't shut up...

I mean really who brings a two year old to see Captain America?

Wee Avengers 2 Spoilers/Rumor:

Let's hope so. His absense was conspicuous.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Mmm, yeah that must have been right when the person wouldn't shut up...

I mean really who brings a two year old to see Captain America?

The only possible answer after watching this movie is...a..HYDRA agent? That explains everything!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Let's hope so. His absense was conspicuous.

From what I understand, part of it is concerns with the actor Jeremy Renner having an alcohol abuse issue.

I didnt like Hawk Eye as a character in the avengers. He seemed IDK, tertiary. We where suppose to feel sad that he was Lokied but he had not character development before that.

Well I'm only up to date with where the UK episodes of SHIELD but I think it's been picking up of late and the TAHITI episode (the one show last Friday) was one of the best in a while. But then again anything with Bill Paxton in generates awesome points by default.

I'm hopeful that the events in Captain America will really light a fire under the shows backside. Either they will have to go rouge or perhaps they will be at the forefront of the new SHIELD that will grow out of the ashes of the old one.

 LuciusAR wrote:
Well I'm only up to date with where the UK episodes of SHIELD but I think it's been picking up of late and the TAHITI episode (the one show last Friday) was one of the best in a while. But then again anything with Bill Paxton in generates awesome points by default.

I'm hopeful that the events in Captain America will really light a fire under the shows backside. Either they will have to go rouge or perhaps they will be at the forefront of the new SHIELD that will grow out of the ashes of the old one.

I agree, they do need more make up.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Mmm, yeah that must have been right when the person wouldn't shut up...

I mean really who brings a two year old to see Captain America?

The only possible answer after watching this movie is...a..HYDRA agent? That explains everything!

Still better than everyone being Skrulls.

My thoughts:

1. I think I've fallen in love with ScarJo/Black Widow.
2. Falcon is awesome, give me more Falcon - USAF Pararescue ftw (and a special thank you to Marvel for continuing to promote the AF as the true badasses they really are)
3. I wish I looked like Chris Evans, what a stud.
4. I wish I was fictional, my life will never be that awesome
5. The movie (sadly) really shouldnt have been called The Winter Soldier... he isn't the primary villain, you cant really even say hes the secondary, he isnt even really relevant or important to the plot, he's merely a convenient sub-plot, but not one that has any real impact on the overall story of the film. You could substitute him for pretty much any generic baddie and things would play out more or less the same.
6. Going off of that, I'm a bit confused that a Soviet asset somehow become a HYDRA agent? Aren't they nazis???
7. Definitely a post-9/11 film
8. Love the character development done with Nick, Cap, and Black Widow, I feel like this is the first time you could really relate to Black Widow (in the films) as something more than a hot assassin in a body suit, Nick has a bit more depth to him than just being the SHIELD puppetmaster, and Cap was presented as something other than a boy scout
9. Going off of that, Nick Fury is a total hypocrite, he was fine with Project Insight right up to the point that it turned out to be a HYDRA plot, even though they had the same goals...
10. And a special thanks to Marvel for their shoutout to NJ in the film, lol.

6. Going off of that, I'm a bit confused that a Soviet asset somehow become a HYDRA agent? Aren't they nazis???

From what I gathered Bucky was experimented on by Zola in the HYDRA camp near Anzio in the first film which is where the groundwork for him becoming another Super Soldier was carried out, but CA bust him out before the work could be completed. After he was ‘killed’ later on the Russians discovered his body and presumably picked up where Zola left off.

How he got to HYDRA isn’t clear but if HYDRA had infiltrated Shield it’s also plausible that they could have infiltrated the KGB as well. HYDRA where never ideologically allied to National Socialism, it’s was a just a means to an end. They probably had agents in every major government.

After he was ‘killed’ later on the Russians discovered his body and presumably picked up where Zola left off.

Presumably, if Hydra infiltrated early shield via Operation Paperclip, then they also infiltrated the Soviet Union. The Winter Soldier no doubt became a prime Soviet agent during the cold war while secretly serving Hydra's interests on that front.

CA is not my thing but I do say that the ads look much much better than the earlier one.

 Frazzled wrote:
CA is not my thing but I do say that the ads look much much better than the earlier one.

I was a defender of the first film which I found to be entertaining if very silly, but Winter Soldier is superior in every way.

The films does wear it’s politics on its sleeve though and many of the plot points do mirror real life recent events.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Mmm, yeah that must have been right when the person wouldn't shut up...

I mean really who brings a two year old to see Captain America?

The only possible answer after watching this movie is...a..HYDRA agent? That explains everything!

Still better than everyone being Skrulls.

True, with Skrulls everything goes out the window: age, gender, nipple location. Not exactly something you want to see after waking up expecting to see your wife in bed and instead of her there's a naked male skrull rubbing his thyroid glands while staring at you. *shudders*

Y'know, if the NSA was using giant kill bots.

chaos0xomega wrote:
9. Going off of that, Nick Fury is a total hypocrite, he was fine with Project Insight right up to the point that it turned out to be a HYDRA plot, even though they had the same goals...

I think he was ok with it before he knew it was going to preemptively lay waste to millions of civilians; he hadn't grasped the full extent of what they were to do.

Nick Fury is a guy who thinks he can solve the world's problems and that he's the only one able to handle it. He was cool with the idea when he thought he was in control, convinced he could control it and stay on the right side of things.

 Ahtman wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
9. Going off of that, Nick Fury is a total hypocrite, he was fine with Project Insight right up to the point that it turned out to be a HYDRA plot, even though they had the same goals...

I think he was ok with it before he knew it was going to preemptively lay waste to millions of civilians; he hadn't grasped the full extent of what they were to do.

This. To Fury, there's a difference to pre-emptively killing, say, known Al-Qaeda operatives and killing millions of people because some programs says that they may be a threat someday in the possible future.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I do believe he was in the elevator with Cap when he explained to him what Project Insight was intended to do (which was to pre-emptively engage potential future threats, Cap at one point says something to the effect of "So now we're assuming their guilty before they even do anything" or something to that effect, and Nick defends the program. Sure HYDRA might have gone further with it (offing 20 million) than he intended to (Offing 4 million <- arbitrary number). Does it really make a difference how many people they intended to kill? It was the same goal and same methodology either way.

IIRC Fury didn't have the algorithm it was created entirely by Zola, who they were going to whack I assumed was going off US intelligence, ie they know person X has recently started attending Al Qaeda training camps and intends to blow up a market square within the next week, Project insight would then 'neutralise' him before he could enact his plan.
It's still some messed up gak and pretty much the set up for Fortress America

I just saw the movie last night and I really enjoyed it. It was a huge improvement over the original movie IMO. Great fight scenes and a great story since it touches upon Captain America's background and how he's still fighting the same battle 70 years in the future.

If anyone can answer this question for me I'd appreciate it.

Why did they want to kill 20 million people? I wasn't able to understand the explanation why.

They are NAZIs

Basically the argument was that the algorithm had determined there were approximately 20 million people who fit the profile of someone who could threaten HYDRA and their goal of bringing peace or freedom to the world or whatever it was they were trying to push. Their solution was to eliminate all these people so that they could accomplish their goals.