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I'm still planning on running 2 platoons, but I'm rethinking PCS.

115 for a LC or quad flames in a chimera is just too much.

50 for quad flamers is still priced well, but with all the ignore cover IG can pull off now I don't think it's needed.

38 for 4 sniper rifles and maybe 1 more for a bolt gun sounds better.

I was confusing him with the named Sergeant.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
All the squads in a platoon are individual scoring units, right?

Has anyone figured out if some of these HQs are getting 2 warlord traits? I see Pask as automatically having the Old Grudges... does he also get to roll on the table?

 schadenfreude wrote:


50 for quad flamers is still priced well, but with all the ignore cover IG can pull off now I don't think it's needed.

38 for 4 sniper rifles and maybe 1 more for a bolt gun sounds better.

I think flamers still have it, to be honest. In general, they aren't taken for ignoring cover, they're used to burn to a crisp whatever breaks your line by killing the infantry, which they still do just as well as ever.

Snipers is now a reasonably costed option, but I'd still pick flamers, for the above reason.

So I haven't really wanted to think about it, because the model is just so damn ugly and I love my Chimeras, but I think there might be something to the base Taurox. It's durability is definitely lower, but it's at least cheaper. At the same time its on-the-go firepower is substantially better than the Chimera's. It even has usable 12" movement firepower thanks to the twin-linked nature of it's guns. It's also cheap, even cheaper than the old Chimera. It's an interesting option as a transport that gets your guys somewhere, then fights on its own, and I could actually see Taurox spam being a decent part of a list.

Looking at it as a Chimera alternative in a mech-vet list with 6 squads, it saves you 90 points and gets you 9 autocannon hits a turn vs. 9 multilaser hits + whatever hull weapon the chimera brings. The side ports also let you deploy your melta/plasma vets further forward without exposing rear armor. I'd actually sort of like it if it weren't for the 10-man transport limit. Any vets that are going to be put near the enemy could really use a support character. Oh well.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm definitely going to start trying the sniper PCS. Unless you have a ton of LOS blocking cover, the flamers just get hit when it's convenient for your opponent. The snipers let the squad start doing something early, and are really cheap. If the enemy wants to go after them early, they're going after a 39 point squad. It's also a cheap way to get not-terrible sniper rifles, so if you have cool sniper models you want to use, that's where they go.

 schadenfreude wrote:
I'm still planning on running 2 platoons, but I'm rethinking PCS.

115 for a LC or quad flames in a chimera is just too much.

50 for quad flamers is still priced well, but with all the ignore cover IG can pull off now I don't think it's needed.

38 for 4 sniper rifles and maybe 1 more for a bolt gun sounds better.

I have always used my pcs with 4 flamers, as a sort of deterrent or fAilsafe if the blob gets overrun. But now I am considering running the pcs attached to static blobs (ie those with heavy weapons) with lascannons instead. Same cost, maybe more useful for more of the game.

Biophysical wrote:
So I haven't really wanted to think about it, because the model is just so damn ugly and I love my Chimeras, but I think there might be something to the base Taurox. It's durability is definitely lower, but it's at least cheaper. At the same time its on-the-go firepower is substantially better than the Chimera's. It even has usable 12" movement firepower thanks to the twin-linked nature of it's guns. It's also cheap, even cheaper than the old Chimera. It's an interesting option as a transport that gets your guys somewhere, then fights on its own, and I could actually see Taurox spam being a decent part of a list.

Looking at it as a Chimera alternative in a mech-vet list with 6 squads, it saves you 90 points and gets you 9 autocannon hits a turn vs. 9 multilaser hits + whatever hull weapon the chimera brings. The side ports also let you deploy your melta/plasma vets further forward without exposing rear armor. I'd actually sort of like it if it weren't for the 10-man transport limit. Any vets that are going to be put near the enemy could really use a support character. Oh well.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm definitely going to start trying the sniper PCS. Unless you have a ton of LOS blocking cover, the flamers just get hit when it's convenient for your opponent. The snipers let the squad start doing something early, and are really cheap. If the enemy wants to go after them early, they're going after a 39 point squad. It's also a cheap way to get not-terrible sniper rifles, so if you have cool sniper models you want to use, that's where they go.

We also lose the cheap hull H flamer.

Atheos wrote:Has anyone figured out if some of these HQs are getting 2 warlord traits? I see Pask as automatically having the Old Grudges... does he also get to roll on the table?

No. He replaces the roll with a set one. Only creed can get two warlord traits.

Biophysical wrote:Looking at it as a Chimera alternative in a mech-vet list with 6 squads, it saves you 90 points and gets you 9 autocannon hits a turn vs. 9 multilaser hits + whatever hull weapon the chimera brings.

Yeah, but is a couple of autocannon hits worth it to have your vehicles explode and fall apart more easily?

I can almost see the taurox prime in a list filled with hellhounds. All fast vehicles, all move 12" forward turn 1, and then flat-out another 12", so you start turn 2 in your opponent's deployment zone.

But this depends to a dangerous extent on getting first turn.

Biophysical wrote:It's the Relentless warlord trait, which spreads it to the squad.

Ah. Clever.

easysauce wrote:I would hardly brush off str 8 attacks, and melta bomb atttacks at being worthless against vehicles...

I'll easily brush off attacks I'll never get to make. Not without seriously risking key models to do it. Wound allocation's a bitch.

easysauce wrote:also considering that 50-100 of the guard will be str 4, thats more then enough to glance to death anything with av 10

There we go.

How many inquisitors can you ally into your army though? Would this just work for a single blob?

 Ailaros wrote:

Atheos wrote:Has anyone figured out if some of these HQs are getting 2 warlord traits? I see Pask as automatically having the Old Grudges... does he also get to roll on the table?

No. He replaces the roll with a set one. Only creed can get two warlord traits.

Biophysical wrote:Looking at it as a Chimera alternative in a mech-vet list with 6 squads, it saves you 90 points and gets you 9 autocannon hits a turn vs. 9 multilaser hits + whatever hull weapon the chimera brings.

Yeah, but is a couple of autocannon hits worth it to have your vehicles explode and fall apart more easily?

I can almost see the taurox prime in a list filled with hellhounds. All fast vehicles, all move 12" forward turn 1, and then flat-out another 12", so you start turn 2 in your opponent's deployment zone.

But this depends to a dangerous extent on getting first turn.

Biophysical wrote:It's the Relentless warlord trait, which spreads it to the squad.

Ah. Clever.

easysauce wrote:I would hardly brush off str 8 attacks, and melta bomb atttacks at being worthless against vehicles...

I'll easily brush off attacks I'll never get to make. Not without seriously risking key models to do it. Wound allocation's a bitch.

easysauce wrote:also considering that 50-100 of the guard will be str 4, thats more then enough to glance to death anything with av 10

There we go.

How many inquisitors can you ally into your army though? Would this just work for a single blob?

You can bring in 2 Allied inquisitors at 25 points a piece, upgrade them to ML1 for 30 points (total 55), then add 3 servo skulls @ 3 points a piece (because, you know, servo skulls) to bring them to 64 points.

I can't recall, but you may be able to use hammerhands twice with two seperate inquisitors. If so, using hammerhands twice in one unit will give you base guardsmen with S5 attacks, and your poweraxe sergeants striking at S6. Since the sergeants strike at a lower initiative, have them towards the rear of the unit and move up at their initiative step when several of your normal guardsmen have died. They'll be exposed for the next round of combat, but with all the wounds you should be putting out, you should be winning the combat anyways.

Or if I'm wrong on the hammerhands, you can give hammerhands to two different blob squads. Either way is decent.

You can only use a single psychic power once per turn, so it would be up to two S4 blobs. It's promising, but it also requires a leadership test (like most of the rest of the guard buffing). It would be nice to have something a bit more reliable.

Also, it would be nice to have an in-house solution, rather than needing allies to work.

 Ailaros wrote:
You can only use a single psychic power once per turn, so it would be up to two S4 blobs. It's promising, but it also requires a leadership test (like most of the rest of the guard buffing). It would be nice to have something a bit more reliable.

Also, it would be nice to have an in-house solution, rather than needing allies to work.

Hammerhand stacks, I believe it was in the FAQ (not that it exists right now, but whatever).

If you can find some good way to make Straken's 6" buff radius work for you, he'd obviously be a great HQ for a blob list. With conscripts and an Inquisitor you could get S5 charging conscripts. With regular guard blobs you could get S6 power axes (and with rad grenades, they would ID T4). Lots of things have to go right for that to work, though.

why on earth do you keep acting like the 5 M bomb holders and characters are auto dead?

they have to chew through 45 guys to get to them, in a single turn, or I just move the characters to the next squad..


I dont think you are actually thinking this through, you will get to make those attacks.. its not some fantasy land to think that 7 IC's with 100 ablative wounds will make it 24" in 2-3 turns before suffereing 100 casualties.

all the IC's but one preist go with conscripts, if he wants to even touch the IC's he has 50 wounds to go through.

he isnt getting to allocate wound to your IC's... even if he has 6+ snipers, to get one precision shot, you are an IC ignoreing it on a 2+... AND you have a 4++ failing that.

once he has chewed through 3-45 guys, you can put the IC's in the full 50 man GI squad.

first turn charge gives you rerolls to hit, hammer hand, rad grenades, two preist abilities, 4 force weapons with charges left, and 5 melta bomb attacks, and you can even get tank hunter/monster hunter VERY easily. 5 mbomb attacks, hitting on 3's, re rolling to hit, armour pen at 2d6 and a reroll... ap 1...

and you are just ignoring that completly....

believe me, I have been playing this list against the best build inthe game right now (eldar WS and FW spam) and its WRECKING them. never had less then 25GI's + the IC's by the time I charged.

why a ld 10 test is "risky" to you... I dont know, thats as safe as it gets,








Automatically Appended Next Post:

 rabidguineapig wrote:

Hammerhand stacks, I believe it was in the FAQ (not that it exists right now, but whatever).

it was not in the FAQ, its one of the most hotly argued things in 40k if the same power stacks with itself by default. not getting into this argument here, but all the tournaments I have been to do NOT allow stacking (as powers that DO stack with themselves all explicitly say it in their text)

that being said, withing a few months with the rules update that is rumoured, I hope GW will actually answer some FAQ"s for the first time in over a year so we at least have a concrete answer.

Inquisitors are Ld 10, they're pretty reliable. Unlike priests. We'll, priests reliably give fearless and hatred.

 Ailaros wrote:
You can only use a single psychic power once per turn, so it would be up to two S4 blobs. It's promising, but it also requires a leadership test (like most of the rest of the guard buffing). It would be nice to have something a bit more reliable.

Also, it would be nice to have an in-house solution, rather than needing allies to work.

While I understand your sentiment, Inquisitors would be weird to have access to inside the IG codex, and allying them in is somewhat fluffy (inquisitor being around before whatever conflict your fighting erupted into needing IG to sort out).

As it is, I'm having a wicked time trying to make 2000 point lists, theres just too much I want to try and experiment with. Thankfully my local scene isn't super strict on WYSIWIG as long as we declare the "counts as" before the game starts and have the army list available during play. Lets me try and deep strike two full storm trooper platoons without shelling out the $500+ it would cost to buy that many scions and such.

Reading through the 'dex at this point, I think the biggest threat to IG right now is....other IG. Enemy taking large amounts of blob squads. if you have a deathstrike, laugh as they try to make 2" spacing w/ 50 models and not occupy their whole deployment zone. They have Pask in a Punisher? Your Pask in a vanquisher will gib him and his squadron with ease, or you can use deepstriking Stormies.

Mavnas wrote:
Inquisitors are Ld 10, they're pretty reliable. Unlike priests. We'll, priests reliably give fearless and hatred.

dont have my codex on hand, ill check when I get home,

but your preists are LD 10 in effect, as I believe the hymm rule just calls for a standard LD test (which can be on the highest LD in the unit) as it is not called out like psychic powers are as being the casters specific LD.

that being said, even with ld 7, you pass more then you fail, and he is worht it for the zealot rule and fearless alone,

rabidguineapig wrote:Considering that you have to take another tank with Pask, don't squadrons require that the closest vehicle to the shooter is the one that gets hit?

I don't have a rulebook handy to double check that but the odds of Pask + 1-2 AV14 shields behind a blob for a 5+ along with Camo netting for a 4+ even when moving AND smoke on turn 1 the odds of him making it to within 24" is pretty good IMO. Put a Lascannon on him and boohoo you lose maybe 1-2 turns of the punisher cannon shooting while getting him into position with an extra deadly lascannon to hit a vehicle at range while he advances. This, and he gives preferred enemy to his squadron of tanks and can order them to split fire... He is a boss.

Mr.Omega wrote:

 alarmingrick wrote:


So you give a Punisher Pask bubble wrap it and leave it in your deployment zone? Or move it 6" a turn wrapped in bodies?
He's going to have to get within 30" to do his magic. I'd prefer him have more range. I hope I'm wrong about him. I just don't feel comfortable with him having a 24" - 30" threat range.

If he's in a squadron I'm pretty sure so long as you have his squadron buddies ahead of him hits are resolved against him last from your opponent's deployment based AT.

I see, very, very few people capable of killing multiple AV14 vehicles in a turn from the front, or even two turns, even Dark Eldar lances in Venom Spam builds will probably only kill at best 1 or 2 a turn before being blown to smithereens.

And then, if AV14 isn't enough, you have a massive defence in the offensive potential of issuing Full Throttle for 12+D6 movement on the first turn, should range even be an issue to begin with, and if you are in range but are still concerned with losing the tank Strike and Shroud, combined with perhaps camo-netting gives you a 5+/4+ cover after firing.

You make that even better, and consistent, by putting some Bullgryns in front with plate shields.

Considering the absurd brute strength of 29 S5 and 3 S4 shots with rending, P.E and BS4, its silly to not at least consider the PaskPunisher.

I feel that if I'm spending that much for Pask, I want him dealing death as fast as possible. I feel the 48" to 72" range suits my plans better.
I'm not saying the Punisher Pask combo won't rock face, it just takes too long and has to get too close before it does.

And I don't care how many different ways people approach the Wyvern, it boils down to Str 4/ AP 6.
No way I'm giving up a HS slot to that over a Basilisk, Manticore or Russ variant. Not even if it's buy one, get one free.

The best vehicle I honestly feel Pask is best in is a Punisher or a Executioner.

Add in some psychic support and you could have a squad with 20 shots that are twinlinked with rending at BS4.

That's nothing to just ignore. Especially if you back it up with him having a 20 shot Punisher, then Heavy bolters, then the two additional tanks with the 4 shot Autocannon. All rerolling misses, yeah that may not destroy vehicles but it will brutalize most infantry.

FYI pask only gives rending to the main gun, not the sponsons.

but that is another great strat out of this book, precision shots from lemen russes are awesome.

rending is pretty darn good on the main weapon alone, it would be rediculous if it actually applied to sponsons.

and as has been said, av 14 is a tough nut to crack when there is only 3 HP worth... 9+ is relly hard to deal with.

Yeah , I know the H. Bolters don't get rending.

You've also got to remember "cover" , Camo Cloaks, etc.. etc.. even out in the open it's a 6+ which isn't bad. Also, I am unsure if it stacks but they can shoot and fire smoke. So I am unsure if they get a additional bonus due to the camo cloaks.

I think it's a great combo to have him in a squad w/ a punisher. Having 20 Possibly precision , rending shots is not pleasant. He'll tear apart Heldrakes and Flying Creatures. Especially if you have a Primaris Backing that squad up.

 Ailaros wrote:

Biophysical wrote:Looking at it as a Chimera alternative in a mech-vet list with 6 squads, it saves you 90 points and gets you 9 autocannon hits a turn vs. 9 multilaser hits + whatever hull weapon the chimera brings.

Yeah, but is a couple of autocannon hits worth it to have your vehicles explode and fall apart more easily?

Maybe. I'm just saying it's not terrible. I don't know exactly what sort of army it would work best in, and I doubt I'll ever find out (butt-ugly model at $1 per point is hard to get over), but it's obviously not complete trash.

Biophysical wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:

Biophysical wrote:Looking at it as a Chimera alternative in a mech-vet list with 6 squads, it saves you 90 points and gets you 9 autocannon hits a turn vs. 9 multilaser hits + whatever hull weapon the chimera brings.

Yeah, but is a couple of autocannon hits worth it to have your vehicles explode and fall apart more easily?

Maybe. I'm just saying it's not terrible. I don't know exactly what sort of army it would work best in, and I doubt I'll ever find out (butt-ugly model at $1 per point is hard to get over), but it's obviously not complete trash.

But from my, just my, point of view it is terrible trash.
I've been collecting/playing for a long time. So long that it is not worth it for me to spend $200+ USD to get four to find out if the AC shots are worth it over the ML.
I'll take my chances that I'm missing out on how awesome that ugly truck is.

 rabidguineapig wrote:

Hammerhand stacks, I believe it was in the FAQ (not that it exists right now, but whatever).

it was not in the FAQ, its one of the most hotly argued things in 40k if the same power stacks with itself by default. not getting into this argument here, but all the tournaments I have been to do NOT allow stacking (as powers that DO stack with themselves all explicitly say it in their text)

that being said, withing a few months with the rules update that is rumoured, I hope GW will actually answer some FAQ"s for the first time in over a year so we at least have a concrete answer.

easysauce wrote:why on earth do you keep acting like the 5 M bomb holders and characters are auto dead?

they have to chew through 45 guys to get to them, in a single turn, or I just move the characters to the next squad..


I dont think you are actually thinking this through, you will get to make those attacks.. its not some fantasy land to think that 7 IC's with 100 ablative wounds will make it 24" in 2-3 turns before suffereing 100 casualties.

I've played foot guard long enough to see this happen dozens of times. Killing through 45 guardsmen isn't that difficult.

What happens is that you move 6"+D6" forwards, and then your opponent kills off 30 guardsmen, and they all are taken from the front, which means the blob in effect moves backwards several inches, which means that you really didn't get to move forward that much. It could take several turns to get to where you want to go - and in that time, they'll be made dead. The only way to mitigate this problem is by bunching up, which means you take more casualties and probably advance across the table more slowly.

And then you have those characters. If they're near the front of the squad, they get killed because you have to assign wounds to the closest model, and if you keep them in the back, then it takes them longer to actually get to use their close combat abilities - and in that time, they'll be dead.

I don't think you've seen enough opponents who are serious about their anti-infantry capabilities. Guardsmen melt like snow to the blowtorch against opponents who know what they're doing.

The only reason why I'm even considering it at all is because two infantry platoons can put down 200 dudes, which just might get some models somewhere other than an early grave. But it only counts if they can do something once they get there. Having a couple of priests and a couple of psykers isn't going to cut it, especially if your opponent has a lot of vehicles on their side of the table (or worse, speedbumps).

Ideas of guardsmen triumphantly breaking cover and storming the other side of the board, smashing into whatever dares oppose them is a figment of the rules and meta that existed 4 years ago. It's just imaginary now.

rabidguineapig wrote:Hammerhand stacks, I believe it was in the FAQ (not that it exists right now, but whatever).

Even if it does, we're talking about a single blob, though. That does not a foot guard list make. Yeah, they do get to abandon ship once the squad in front gets massacred, but still...

Ailaros, that's why you throw Azrael in there - to give them all 4++.

I think stacking Hammerhand was a GK thing that didn't translate over to inquisition.

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:
Ailaros, that's why you throw Azrael in there - to give them all 4++.

Bullgryns can give them a 4+ cover save, a wall of Russes can move in time with them too up the board completely blocking LOS, Cypher can give them shrouded and fleet, you can use Conscript meatshields as a first wave, Sentinels also provide cover and fire support, as well as potentially Heavy Flamer deterrents. The list goes on.

I have also just realised that Straken's Company Command Squad can take, move, shoot and charge with Sniper Rifles. Interesting against MC's for sure.

Unless I'm missing something Pask is only worth it if he's getting 20 rending shots or your warlord. In a tank he only twin links you'd be better off saving the points and getting a generic tank commander since a psyker should be twin linking the whole unit, or am I missing something?

I should mention I'm thinking about this in terms of an allied detachment so he won't be warlord.

 easysauce wrote:
but your preists are LD 10 in effect, as I believe the hymm rule just calls for a standard LD test (which can be on the highest LD in the unit) as it is not called out like psychic powers are as being the casters specific LD.

The rule states that the Priest can take a leadership test, not the unit. You only use the highest value when it is the unit that is taking the test.

Mavnas wrote:
Unless I'm missing something Pask is only worth it if he's getting 20 rending shots or your warlord. In a tank he only twin links you'd be better off saving the points and getting a generic tank commander since a psyker should be twin linking the whole unit, or am I missing something?

I should mention I'm thinking about this in terms of an allied detachment so he won't be warlord.

I disagree.

For a start, Pask gives Preferred Enemy to his entire squadron. If you're fielding any of the Russes that wound on 2's, that's effectively re-rolls to wound on those tanks, which no psyker can give you.

The Executioner large pie plate has blind - in some cases, its extremely useful for reducing more average enemy infantry to WS/BS1. This effect even has a 1/3 chance to work against Marines. Plus, its a built in, cheaper way to make Executioners viable without prescience bots by re-rolling all of those damned Gets Hot! rolls.

I've already lost an Executioner because to one of those random GH! HP losses.