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 jifel wrote:
Show spoilers:

Spoiler:

Pure brutality, but dang was that fight scene nicely done. I'd read the books a few times each, but that still made me flinch. On the other hand, that's exactly how I imagine a Dark Eldar/Space Marine duel plays out.

Seriously, I wish we could have had a week to talk about how awesome that fight scene was, but now it is completely overshadowed by the end result.

Book spoilers:

Spoiler:

Damn, I want to watch the Mountain SCREAM now. We know that there's some lovely poison/infection coming and that he will be in a whole world of pain. At least Oberyn didn't die in vain! Also, I loved that line by Littlefinger "men die on their chamber pots". We all know where that's going in an episode or two...

LA LA LA
I love the spoilers I agree would be funny to see the end results.

Fun fact about the name:

Oberyn Martell has no I's in it.

 pretre wrote:

Spoiler:

Wow that still makes me sick.

 d-usa wrote:
Fun fact about the name:

Oberyn Martell has no I's in it.

I don't get it... It also has no u's...

 pretre wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Fun fact about the name:

Oberyn Martell has no I's in it.

I don't get it... It also has no u's...

Say it out loud. No eyes. A homonym, you see.

 Gitzbitah wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Fun fact about the name:

Oberyn Martell has no I's in it.

I don't get it... It also has no u's...

Say it out loud. No eyes. A homonym, you see.

Ahh, gotcha. It's early. I'll go get some coffee and leave everyone alone.

Actually I'd be pretty POed if Daneris died at sea, after 4 seasons now her whole story would end up being a total waste of time. In fact, she better do something totally epic after all this time, like have sersei drawn and quartered by her dragons, or I'll still be POed.

 Necros wrote:
Actually I'd be pretty POed if Daneris died at sea, after 4 seasons now her whole story would end up being a total waste of time. In fact, she better do something totally epic after all this time, like have sersei drawn and quartered by her dragons, or I'll still be POed.

Daneris is an evil idiot. SHe has no sense of justice, because she is evil. Rhaegar was sane. SHe is not.

Wow. Ok now I remembered why I don't watch this show.

 Frazzled wrote:
Wow. Ok now I remembered why I don't watch this show.

This show is Grrrreat!

Not seen the episode yet so intrigued what Dany has done - hopefully its not worse than the personality enema that GRRM inflicted on her in the last two books.

 Frazzled wrote:
Wow. Ok now I remembered why I don't watch this show.

Because heroic characters always die in vain or because the gore is excessive?

 trexmeyer wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Wow. Ok now I remembered why I don't watch this show.

Because heroic characters always die in vain or because the gore is excessive?

Gore is excessive. I don't do torture porn.
Everyone dies. Its ok if occasionally a main character dies, but come on, every character dies. That kind of makes me not care.
No one ever wins. Its what, 8 books now?

SOrry, I'm derailing the thread. That episode just sounds ickey for ickey's sake.

 Frazzled wrote:

 trexmeyer wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Wow. Ok now I remembered why I don't watch this show.

Because heroic characters always die in vain or because the gore is excessive?

Gore is excessive. I don't do torture porn.
Everyone dies. Its ok if occasionally a main character dies, but come on, every character dies. That kind of makes me not care.
No one ever wins. Its what, 8 books now?

SOrry, I'm derailing the thread. That episode just sounds ickey for ickey's sake.

6 Books. We are waiting for the other two books. It suppose to have a starwars happy ending though. Hopefully with Jon Snow as Jon Stark, Dany gets killed, Stannis Becomes King, and Gendry becomes Heir Apparent.

Hopefully with Jon Snow as Jon Stark, Dany gets killed, Stannis Becomes King, and Gendry becomes Heir Apparent.

or in a better world

Jon stays dead
Dany burns the wall, Bran, fat Sam, the Nightwatch, the others, the "not" Elves and anyone else irritating
she marries Tyrion

lots more burning in between....... good times

 Mr Morden wrote:

Hopefully with Jon Snow as Jon Stark, Dany gets killed, Stannis Becomes King, and Gendry becomes Heir Apparent.

or in a better world

Jon stays dead
Dany burns the wall, Bran, fat Sam, the Nightwatch, the others, the "not" Elves and anyone else irritating
she marries Tyrion

lots more burning in between....... good times

No. I hate that idea. Jon is the only reasonable character left...

 pretre wrote:

Spoiler:

Still makes me smile.

Seriously, both my dad and I were laughing at the Mountain's confession We both never liked Oberyn anyway.

I was hoping for a "WTH" moment if the Viper lived. I was hoping the Viper lived. I wanted the Viper to lived. I needed the Viper to lived. Damn you GRRM!!!

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Hopefully with Jon Snow as Jon Stark, Dany gets killed, Stannis Becomes King, and Gendry becomes Heir Apparent.

or in a better world

Jon stays dead
Dany burns the wall, Bran, fat Sam, the Nightwatch, the others, the "not" Elves and anyone else irritating
she marries Tyrion

lots more burning in between....... good times

No. I hate that idea. Jon is the only reasonable character left...

There's still Stannis!

Yeah, the actor who played the Viper was amazing. So goddamn suave and all Spanish-like.

Here's hoping his brother will be as good.

 Jihadin wrote:
I was hoping for a "WTH" moment if the Viper lived. I was hoping the Viper lived. I wanted the Viper to lived. I needed the Viper to lived. Damn you GRRM!!!

Yeah, I liked that character and his main squeeze.

 Jihadin wrote:
I was hoping for a "WTH" moment if the Viper lived. I was hoping the Viper lived. I wanted the Viper to lived. I needed the Viper to lived. Damn you GRRM!!!

Yeah I was certain he was going to pull out a knife and kill the Mountain. Haven't got this far in the books but is the Dornish reaction covered in the books or is it not made a big deal of?

Oh, they are pissed.
Iirc, Dorn's ruler (the Viper's brother) had to explicitly order his nieces (who, by the way, are very, very scary. Awesome, but scary. They are also the Viper's daughters) not to take revenge.

That's damn near a season onto itself.

 jifel wrote:
Show spoilers:

Spoiler:

Pure brutality, but dang was that fight scene nicely done. I'd read the books a few times each, but that still made me flinch. On the other hand, that's exactly how I imagine a Dark Eldar/Space Marine duel plays out.

Seriously, I wish we could have had a week to talk about how awesome that fight scene was, but now it is completely overshadowed by the end result.

Book spoilers:

Spoiler:

Damn, I want to watch the Mountain SCREAM now. We know that there's some lovely poison/infection coming and that he will be in a whole world of pain. At least Oberyn didn't die in vain! Also, I loved that line by Littlefinger "men die on their chamber pots". We all know where that's going in an episode or two...

Regarding your first spoiler...


So having now digested this part of the story in both book and TV formats, I keep coming around to what Tywin's motivation is throughout the trial.

1. He can't be dumb enough to believe Tyrion killed Joffrey.
2. He knows he's in a better spot now with a controllable Tommen on the throne than Mad King Joffrey.
3. As much as he hates Tyrion, to this point he's obviously thought Tyrion is at least useful, hence his making him Hand, Master of Coin, etc.
4. He's powerful enough to be able to make the whole matter go away -- create a different scapegoat, or pin it solely on Sansa and the fool, etc.
5. He's shown no great love of Cersei that would make you think he'd proceed with this in order to make her happy.
6. He's mostly motivated by his legacy and his family name, and Tyrion being executed doesn't advance that at all.

So why is he apparently so eager for Tyrion to lose his head over an accusation and trial that are obviously farces?

I actually think the TV writers improved the story by creating the whole "Jaime stepping down to take over Casterly Rock" angle. Tywin's quick reaction was at least a suggestion that he was using the trial as leverage against Jaime, and had been waiting for this exact proposal.

Otherwise -- and as it takes pace in the book -- it feels like GRRM lost his way with the Tywin character here somewhat.

 gorgon wrote:

 jifel wrote:
Show spoilers:

Spoiler:

Pure brutality, but dang was that fight scene nicely done. I'd read the books a few times each, but that still made me flinch. On the other hand, that's exactly how I imagine a Dark Eldar/Space Marine duel plays out.

Seriously, I wish we could have had a week to talk about how awesome that fight scene was, but now it is completely overshadowed by the end result.

Book spoilers:

Spoiler:

Damn, I want to watch the Mountain SCREAM now. We know that there's some lovely poison/infection coming and that he will be in a whole world of pain. At least Oberyn didn't die in vain! Also, I loved that line by Littlefinger "men die on their chamber pots". We all know where that's going in an episode or two...

Regarding your first spoiler...

Spoiler:

I'm willing to accept that the scene was flawed in that sense. They could have backed off the gore about 40%, and they still would have gotten to the same spot. And more talk would have been around what everything leading up to that instead a big splash scene (pun intended).

Still, the Mountain got his, thanks to that squire making sure those spears were nice and shiny. Have fun with what's to come, bro.

So having now digested this part of the story in both book and TV formats, I keep coming around to what Tywin's motivation is throughout the trial.

1. He can't be dumb enough to believe Tyrion killed Joffrey.
2. He knows he's in a better spot now with a controllable Tommen on the throne than Mad King Joffrey.
3. As much as he hates Tyrion, to this point he's obviously thought Tyrion is at least useful, hence his making him Hand, Master of Coin, etc.
4. He's powerful enough to be able to make the whole matter go away -- create a different scapegoat, or pin it solely on Sansa and the fool, etc.
5. He's shown no great love of Cersei that would make you think he'd proceed with this in order to make her happy.
6. He's mostly motivated by his legacy and his family name, and Tyrion being executed doesn't advance that at all.

So why is he apparently so eager for Tyrion to lose his head over an accusation and trial that are obviously farces?

I actually think the TV writers improved the story by creating the whole "Jaime stepping down to take over Casterly Rock" angle. Tywin's quick reaction was at least a suggestion that he was using the trial as leverage against Jaime, and had been waiting for this exact proposal.

Otherwise -- and as it takes pace in the book -- it feels like GRRM lost his way with the Tywin character here somewhat.

Or it could be that he can't risk it. If he does anything people are going to hate him. But you never know.

I hope cersi gets hers soon.

I think the whole "why is he so eager to get rid of him now" is more of a personal vendetta for Tywin. He basically got bitch-slapped by Tyrion in the trial in front of everybody that is important in Westeros. Letting him go now would be a major sign of weakness. He might be useful in the short term, but he will never be the future of the family line (in the eyes of Tywin) so he is expendable at this point.

As far as the gore: I think it was fitting. The Mountain is a monster who rapes and kills his way across the land. They were painting the picture with the whole "smash babies against the wall and rape their mother while their brains are dripping off his hands" speeches. But showing his brutality really drives it home.

Yeah, I think they also wanted to make it horrible enough as to make the Lannisters look bad.

The way I see it, Oberyn just dying won't have that much of a political impact, since it's trial by combat.

But killing him off in a sadistic and disturbing way? That's going to cause a bit of a stir among the courtiers.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, I think they also wanted to make it horrible enough as to make the Lannisters look bad.

The way I see it, Oberyn just dying won't have that much of a political impact, since it's trial by combat.

But killing him off in a sadistic and disturbing way? That's going to cause a bit of a stir among the courtiers.

I laughed at that. They killed a prince of dorne. Thats a pretty big deal! Political backlash. YEAH That will be.