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Damn you all for ruining my hopes for the Viper to come back. A pox on your house hold and may a thousand fleas find residence in your crotch!!

.

 Frazzled wrote:

 trexmeyer wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Wow. Ok now I remembered why I don't watch this show.

Because heroic characters always die in vain or because the gore is excessive?

Gore is excessive. I don't do torture porn.
Everyone dies. Its ok if occasionally a main character dies, but come on, every character dies. That kind of makes me not care.
No one ever wins. Its what, 8 books now?

SOrry, I'm derailing the thread. That episode just sounds ickey for ickey's sake.

Kind of agree with you there, Frazz. GRRM's basic storytelling device uses seems to be "make the readers/viewers like someone, then have horrible things happen to him/her while all the evil bastards prosper". It gets old really, really fast.
Although as far as the duel goes, Oberyn is completely responsible for his own death. He had the Mountain dead to rights, and threw it all away because his hate and rage over his sister's murder got the better of him.

Also, if they kill off Tyrion now, I'm just going to stop watching it.

Have no fear, Tyrion is impvincible.

 Asherian Command wrote:

Daston wrote:
Well yet another fight that should have been epic but just wasn't.

Not sure if they haven't got the staff or the stunts people but all the fighting seems to be either 90% running away or in this case 90% dancing about.

I know I shouldn't expect fight scenes like Sparticaus or 300 etc but just one cool duel would be good.

That was wushu vs medevil combat.

Fighting is always a dance. Those two were doing quite a good fight.

Sparticaus has more of a gladiatorial fighting styles, not wushu or medevil combat. Medevil combat is very much stab and slash down. And with a spear you have to move like that with an enemy with that big of a sword or in swords in general.

Spears are the fastest weapon on the planet in terms of close quarters because it is both two handed and very light compared to a sword.

Plus against the mountain he is trying to tire him out. (The viper is trying to at least)

In terms of strategy he is using his superior agility to defeat the mountain. And in this case he actually did defeat the mountain. Because the viper always carries a poison.

Plus in 300 People don't fight like that :/ nor in spariticus, people stay to discipline and they fight with very good coordination, because if you don't one false step and your dead. Though to be honest I would rather use an Italian Fighting Style in terms of fighting its brutal but efficient.

The issue I had with 300 is that the action was as different from hoplite phalanx tactics as you can get. I understand the reasons for not wanting to film 2 hours of phalanxes pushing against one another (although the weird leaping is still unexplainable IMO), and that few in a moviegoing audience would care. But TO ME, the how and where they fought are the point to why the Greeks accomplished what they did at Thermopylae. Change that and you rip the heart out of the story, IMO.

Back on topic, the book explains some of Oberyn's tactics, including his unusual choice of a spear for a duel (it was mainly to help counter the Mountain's reach advantage). I thought it was an excellent fight sequence that seemed right out of the book. Although again, I can see the room for criticism of the over-the-top gore overshadowing all the pretty footwork.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 WARORK93 wrote:
Besides...would you want to walk around alive with gouged eyes and a crushed head?

Maybe. I'd OWN Halloween parties.

 Frazzled wrote:
Gore is excessive. I don't do torture porn.

Torture porn? What torture porn. You do not know torture porn. Ilsa She-Wolf of the S.S. is torture porn . (And also an example of a movie that is so bad that it is… bad!)

 Asherian Command wrote:
6 Books. We are waiting for the other two books. It suppose to have a starwars happy ending though. Hopefully with Jon Snow as Jon Stark, Dany gets killed, Stannis Becomes King, and Gendry becomes Heir Apparent.

6? Did I miss one? Wikipedia still list A Dance with Dragons as the last one published.
Do you know what I want to happen in the end? Nothing. Life goes on. The beginning of the book is when people are all dealing with the aftermath of Robert's rebellion. The end will leave people dealing with the aftermath of whatever is still to come, and people will slowly forget it. All those events will not have been all leading to some grandiose conclusion, just to more related-but-not-quite-the-same events to come. Just like in actual history .

 Jihadin wrote:
Arya is "contracted" to kill Lannisters by Dorne

 pretre wrote:

 Piston Honda wrote:


The actor playing Theon personally asked D and D for actor playing Ramsay to get the part as they are good friends in real life and felt the creepy and intense scenes required someone he was comfortable with to execute them.

That said, I am not entirely happy with Bolton portrayal in the show. Hope we get more in season 4 and perhaps a bit more on track.

They made Ramsay too good looking. He's suppose to be uglier than sin.

even more amusing is that they tried to get Alfie Allen's (theon) real sister to play Asha but she refused saying it was a bit too creepy.

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/ustv/s151/game-of-thrones/news/a575055/game-of-thrones-alfie-allen-denies-lily-allens-incestuous-cameo-claim.html#~oG8gKKXZvvDcGd

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/ustv/s151/game-of-thrones/news/a575132/lena-headey-gave-away-a-massive-game-of-thrones-spoiler-two-months-ago.html

Guess I'll have to follow her on Instagram now

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Gore is excessive. I don't do torture porn.

Torture porn? What torture porn. You do not know torture porn. Ilsa She-Wolf of the S.S. is torture porn . (And also an example of a movie that is so bad that it is… bad!)

 Asherian Command wrote:
6 Books. We are waiting for the other two books. It suppose to have a starwars happy ending though. Hopefully with Jon Snow as Jon Stark, Dany gets killed, Stannis Becomes King, and Gendry becomes Heir Apparent.

6? Did I miss one? Wikipedia still list A Dance with Dragons as the last one published.
Do you know what I want to happen in the end? Nothing. Life goes on. The beginning of the book is when people are all dealing with the aftermath of Robert's rebellion. The end will leave people dealing with the aftermath of whatever is still to come, and people will slowly forget it. All those events will not have been all leading to some grandiose conclusion, just to more related-but-not-quite-the-same events to come. Just like in actual history .

 Jihadin wrote:
Arya is "contracted" to kill Lannisters by Dorne

Spoiler:

I bet on she is contracted to kill the real Sansa, for some reason. Or Rickon. Much more fun involved for everybody!

I doubt that he will do that because GRRM wants to end the series for good so no one will take it up again. You can't make it like that or else someone will want to continue it. Its why no one has been able to continue LOTR because it ended so well.

 Asherian Command wrote:
I doubt that he will do that because GRRM wants to end the series for good so no one will take it up again.

Only one way to be sure then. Rock falls, everyone dies. People will still make prequels, though.

 pretre wrote:

 Piston Honda wrote:


The actor playing Theon personally asked D and D for actor playing Ramsay to get the part as they are good friends in real life and felt the creepy and intense scenes required someone he was comfortable with to execute them.

That said, I am not entirely happy with Bolton portrayal in the show. Hope we get more in season 4 and perhaps a bit more on track.

They made Ramsay too good looking. He's suppose to be uglier than sin.

even more amusing is that they tried to get Alfie Allen's (theon) real sister to play Asha but she refused saying it was a bit too creepy.

What? Lily Allen the singer?

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Piston Honda wrote:


The actor playing Theon personally asked D and D for actor playing Ramsay to get the part as they are good friends in real life and felt the creepy and intense scenes required someone he was comfortable with to execute them.

That said, I am not entirely happy with Bolton portrayal in the show. Hope we get more in season 4 and perhaps a bit more on track.

They made Ramsay too good looking. He's suppose to be uglier than sin.

even more amusing is that they tried to get Alfie Allen's (theon) real sister to play Asha but she refused saying it was a bit too creepy.

What? Lily Allen the singer?

Yep, although now it is Alfie's word versus hers. Even if it isn't true though, it's amusing to think about.

Also, you may not realize it, but this song is about Alfie Allen (who plays Theon)


According to that he was a stoner who played computer games and had no job. At least he got the job part covered.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
I doubt that he will do that because GRRM wants to end the series for good so no one will take it up again.

Only one way to be sure then. Rock falls, everyone dies. People will still make prequels, though.

More like, Dragon poops, everyone dies.

I mean, dragons are big. Therefore, they must have big poops.

The tropes say rock falls. And also, dragon poop is magic poop and therefore possible Resurrection or similar non-sense. Basic, very trivial rock falls, everyone dies is more final.

Lilly Allen as Yana Greyjoy would have killed the character for me. I have high hopes (likely to be dashed no doubt) for Yana/Asha Greyjoy, I really like her character.

 George Spiggott wrote:
Lilly Allen as Yana Greyjoy would have killed the character for me. I have high hopes (likely to be dashed no doubt) for Yana/Asha Greyjoy, I really like her character.

 George Spiggott wrote:
Lilly Allen as Yana Greyjoy would have killed the character for me. I have high hopes (likely to be dashed no doubt) for Yana/Asha Greyjoy, I really like her character.

Can't really know that though. Has she ever acted before? For all you know, she would have been perfect.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Spoiler:

She still alive as of A Dance with Dragons, but has been captured by Stannis Baratheon. Theon on the other hand...things don't look so good for him.

 pretre wrote:

 George Spiggott wrote:
Lilly Allen as Yana Greyjoy would have killed the character for me. I have high hopes (likely to be dashed no doubt) for Yana/Asha Greyjoy, I really like her character.

Can't really know that though. Has she ever acted before? For all you know, she would have been perfect.

No because I don't see here kicking any ass any time soon. The current actress I do.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

Spoiler:

She still alive as of A Dance with Dragons, but has been captured by Stannis Baratheon. Theon on the other hand...things don't look so good for him.

Spoiler:

Come on! He is looking awesome with all these trendy body scarifications, and he is now surrounded by friends who only wish him good !

It's been down hill for poor old Theon from the off. Every silver lining has a cloud in that boys life. Getting offed will be a mercy.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 George Spiggott wrote:
Lilly Allen as Yana Greyjoy would have killed the character for me. I have high hopes (likely to be dashed no doubt) for Yana/Asha Greyjoy, I really like her character.

Can't really know that though. Has she ever acted before? For all you know, she would have been perfect.

No because I don't see here kicking any ass any time soon. The current actress I do.

The actress who plays Asha (Yara) didn't kick ass before she got this gig either:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2247629/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t78

You never know until you see them in action.

 Piston Honda wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Just watched the episode

Really great stuff - even if it had a bit with the wall of dullness.

Sansa is growing nicely into her role as more important piece in the game
Ramsey Bolton is just a fabulous bad guy - kudos to both him and the acton playing Theon.
The Tyrion / Jamie conversation was great
The duel was awesome as well.
Didn't think they were doing the letter from home Jorah story but that all made sense.
Interesting to see if Arya and Sansa are to be reunited

Much better than the books at this point.

The actor playing Theon personally asked D and D for actor playing Ramsay to get the part as they are good friends in real life and felt the creepy and intense scenes required someone he was comfortable with to execute them.

That said, I am not entirely happy with Bolton portrayal in the show. Hope we get more in season 4 and perhaps a bit more on track.

They made Ramsay too good looking. He's suppose to be uglier than sin.

That does make sense - the scenes are very icky - but done really well. Like I said I think I enjoyed every scene in this episode - even the whole wall of dullness was quite amusing with the whole - "lets face it we are useless". Goo job at making the Wildlings really nasty.

How they are supposed to even patrol its length effctively is beyond me - and why the widlings have not all just come through in a bit a hundred or more miles away which is deserted.

Bran Dawri wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

 trexmeyer wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Wow. Ok now I remembered why I don't watch this show.

Because heroic characters always die in vain or because the gore is excessive?

Gore is excessive. I don't do torture porn.
Everyone dies. Its ok if occasionally a main character dies, but come on, every character dies. That kind of makes me not care.
No one ever wins. Its what, 8 books now?

SOrry, I'm derailing the thread. That episode just sounds ickey for ickey's sake.

Kind of agree with you there, Frazz. GRRM's basic storytelling device uses seems to be "make the readers/viewers like someone, then have horrible things happen to him/her while all the evil bastards prosper". It gets old really, really fast.
Although as far as the duel goes, Oberyn is completely responsible for his own death. He had the Mountain dead to rights, and threw it all away because his hate and rage over his sister's murder got the better of him.

Also, if they kill off Tyrion now, I'm just going to stop watching it.

See, I think that perspective is very Tyrion-centric. Consider it from Oberyn's point of view. He wasn't looking to die, but his reason for fighting was to force the confession and make his point in front of everyone.

Simply killing the Mountain wasn't the point...or at least not the only point, since he took some precautions. You can say Oberyn got sloppy, but it wasn't as if his rage overcame him at the end...his rage got him into that fight in the first place and right up to the end he was doing exactly what he planned to do.

Tyrion's problem was with having a champion who had more complicated goals than simply winning.

Well said!

 Mr Morden wrote:
How they are supposed to even patrol its length effctively is beyond me - and why the widlings have not all just come through in a bit a hundred or more miles away which is deserted.

They didn't need to.

There are 19 castles along the Wall, but over the years as the manpower and resources of the Nights Watch dwindled, they were forced to close down all but three. They sealed the gates through the Wall at all the undefended castles (barring the odd secret and forgotten tunnel, like the Nightfort) by packing them with rocks and flooding them with water so they froze.

Its true, they don't have the manpower to patrol the entire length of the wall, but they don't need to. There are hundreds of thousands of Wildlings beyond the Wall, but only a couple hundred elite Wildling raiders (Tormund, Ygritte et al) have the skills necessary to climb the Wall. A few dozen Wildling raiders may get over the Wall here and there where its undefended, but the only way for the rest of the Wildlings to get past it is through the 3 remaining gates which the Nights Watch has pulled back all its forces to defend.

Any Wildlings who successfully climb the Wall are (or were) hunted down by the military forces of the Northern Lords. Eddard Stark, as Warden of the North, was responsible for defending the North. That included any Wildlings who managed to slip past the Wall.

However, after the War of the Five Kings depleted the military strength of the North (with many of its Bannermen killed at the Red Wedding, being held in captivity, killed in battle, or scattered through the Riverlands), it is now poorly defended and more vulnerable than ever.

And the show lowered their numbers. They don't even seem to mention the other two main castles. At least they haven't since I wanna say season 1. They're really messed with the northern part of the story. I'm hoping it's for simplification in the long term since it's kinda strange right now.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
How they are supposed to even patrol its length effctively is beyond me - and why the widlings have not all just come through in a bit a hundred or more miles away which is deserted.

They didn't need to.

There are 19 castles along the Wall, but over the years as the manpower and resources of the Nights Watch dwindled, they were forced to close down all but three. They sealed the gates through the Wall at all the undefended castles (barring the odd secret and forgotten tunnel, like the Nightfort) by packing them with rocks and flooding them with water so they froze.

Its true, they don't have the manpower to patrol the entire length of the wall, but they don't need to. There are hundreds of thousands of Wildlings beyond the Wall, but only a couple hundred elite Wildling raiders (Tormund, Ygritte et al) have the skills necessary to climb the Wall. A few dozen Wildling raiders may get over the Wall here and there where its undefended, but the only way for the rest of the Wildlings to get past it is through the 3 remaining gates which the Nights Watch has pulled back all its forces to defend.

Any Wildlings who successfully climb the Wall are (or were) hunted down by the military forces of the Northern Lords. Eddard Stark, as Warden of the North, was responsible for defending the North. That included any Wildlings who managed to slip past the Wall.

However, after the War of the Five Kings, the North is now poorly defended and more vulnerable than ever.

Gven that the Wildlings have giants and loads of labour - burrowing through the wall at another location seems very very easy?

I imagine it will come up more soon since they visit some of the others in upcoming books/storylines.

The wildlings have always had the numbers to overrun the wall and break through anywhere. But they have always been to busy fighting each other to be an effective force.

That is what is so unusual about Mance and his army and why people simply don't believe John about the scale of it.

 Hulksmash wrote:
And the show lowered their numbers. They don't even seem to mention the other two main castles. At least they haven't since I wanna say season 1. They're really messed with the northern part of the story. I'm hoping it's for simplification in the long term since it's kinda strange right now.

Yes its just for simplification and cost cutting. They've cut out a lot of locations and characters, or delayed the introduction of characters, merged the roles of characters etc.

Peter Jackson did the same thing with The Lord of the Rings.

Its sad yes, when certain aspects of a book's story are cut but sometimes its necessary to making filming an adaptation feasible.


HOWEVER one change that I'm annoyed at with the latest episode is the whole Tyrion-Jaime beetle conversation. That was bloody awful, completely made up and went nowhere...as it progressed it gave the impression that Tyrion was about to come to some profound conclusion or epiphany...then it just petered out.

They should have replaced it with an Oberyn-Tywin scene instead. In the book, prior to the Trial by Combat, Oberyn met with Tywin in The Hand's quarters for a meal and discussed various things. That would have been a good scene, to hint at the tension and mistrust between the two, and to foreshadow Oberyn's public accusation of Tywin during the Trial by Combat.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 d-usa wrote:
The wildlings have always had the numbers to overrun the wall and break through anywhere. But they have always been to busy fighting each other to be an effective force.

That is what is so unusual about Mance and his army and why people simply don't believe John about the scale of it.

Theres also the fact that Mance is unaware of just how weak the Nights Watch is, and how vulnerable the North is with most of its military strength destroyed or away fighting a war. Mance asks Jon how strong the garrison at Castle Black is. Jon bluffs and says 1000. In reality, its just a couple hundred.

Mance believes hes facing a far stronger enemy, and so hes being overly-cautious.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr Morden wrote:


Gven that the Wildlings have giants and loads of labour - burrowing through the wall at another location seems very very easy?

Not really. That would take a long time to achieve, and they would be discovered long before they could get through. The Nights Watch might not patrol the entire length of the Wall, but they do send Rangers out to patrol beyond the Wall. A party of giants and Wildings trying to tunnel through it would be quickly discovered, a warning would be sent back to Castle Black and archers would be sent to defend that section of the wall.

The Wall also "defends itself". Its notoriously unstable, prone to collapse. Parts of it collapsed when Tormund and his Wildlings climbed it, and that was just a few dozen people climbing up the surface. What do you think will happen when Giants and Wildlings attempt to tunnel through it?