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 Gitzbitah wrote:
Other than 300, I can't think of a single movie that really sold the masses of troops as spear users. It takes a fraction of the time to manufacture a spear, it is incredibly easy to use- a point and stick interface- and was the mainstay of most medieval armies. The cult of the sword is strong though, and so our heroes must have swords.

Didn't Lord of the Rings and Kingdom of heaven have ranks of spears?

Then again, Lord of Rings had a cavalry charge overrunning pikemen in a frontal assault...

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Spoiler:

Oh, I know why he got caught and that he poisoned his spears. I just thought it would have been wiser to, you know, cripple his arms and legs to limit the chance of retaliation

Also, does it bother anyone else how they didn't have spears at the siege of the Wall? A wall of pikes and spears would have been helpful against that giant.

Then again, that may be the armchair general side of me thinking.

Well they hardly use shields either but yes I thought the same thing..............perhaps its considered a "Dornish" weapon?

Didn't Lord of the Rings and Kingdom of heaven have ranks of spears? Then again, Lord of Rings had a cavalry charge overrunning pikemen in a frontal assault...

Well that was with a Wizard in the front rank casting a massive spell - and the Orks at Minith Tirith broke before the Cavalry hit - which is exactly what cavalry love.............

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Gitzbitah wrote:
Other than 300, I can't think of a single movie that really sold the masses of troops as spear users. It takes a fraction of the time to manufacture a spear, it is incredibly easy to use- a point and stick interface- and was the mainstay of most medieval armies. The cult of the sword is strong though, and so our heroes must have swords.

Didn't Lord of the Rings and Kingdom of heaven have ranks of spears?

Then again, Lord of Rings had a cavalry charge overrunning pikemen in a frontal assault...

Yeah but the pikeman broke ranks, which allowed the horsemen to get through. IN both instances they broke. When aragon himself charged with his elves against the pikemen and almost all the elves died in that charge.

The charge of the rhorim was quite epic and the enemy began to break at the very image of being charged by six thousand riders.

Kingdom of heaven did also, but those are well disciplined Arab Soldiers and Crusaders

Ah right, now I remember. Gandalf did that thing with the light that blinded the Urak Hai, right?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Ah right, now I remember. Gandalf did that thing with the light that blinded the Urak Hai, right?

Yes, Yes he did.

 Sasori wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Finally got around to watching Episode 8.
Liked what they did with Sansa, and the fight near the end was very well done and close to the book; in both instances I thought to myself "Obryn, you stupid cocky melon-fether, you should have just wasted the gak-stain"

Spoiler:

Oberyn wasn't stupid, he knew going into the fight that he had a very good chance of dying so he poisoned his spears. Gregor Clegane was doomed the second Oberyn drew first blood.

Oberyn was simply caught off guard in the heat of the moment, when he was probably feeling relieved that he'd (apparently) beaten the Mountain and dealt him a fatal wound.

As Bronn said, the Mountain is unnaturally quick for a man of his size, which implied that he'd personally seen the Mountain fight. If Oberyn had known the Mountain personally beforehand, and not just by reputation, then I doubt he would have dropped his guard and underestimated the Mountain.

Didn't he always poison his weapons though? That's what earned him the nickname "The Red Viper" if I remember correctly.

He allegedly poisoned his weapon once, but wasn't caught for it. enough evidence for a name and a rumor but not enough to check his weapons. Theduel shows that it was more than a rumor.

Yup, those are two of the other surprisingly realistic (as far as weaponry goes) movies out there. The scene where an Ork maces an armored Gondorian in Return of the King is just brutal- but since it is in the same universe as Bombur's epic barrel-roll, I didn't think it the best source.


Kingdom of Heaven is a great movie for siege combat and medieval combat, period. Their mix of weapons and armor is awesome.

Getting back on topic, it really is surprising the Night's Watch doesn't put more emphasis on spear training. It is a wonderful weapon for manning a wall, and works great with dragonglass. Even after the special material that made it work so well had passed into oblivion, the fighting styles should have remained. After all, their defences and vows haven't changed since the last winter. With their dwindling finances, they shouldn't have forsaken the cheapest weapon around.

Yeah, and there's also the fact that's its a lot easier to train a bunch of conscripts how to fight with a spear than it is to fight with a sword.

Yeah, crossbows and spears. You'll be killing professional knights in a month!

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, and there's also the fact that's its a lot easier to train a bunch of conscripts how to fight with a spear than it is to fight with a sword.

From a filming standpoint however, it's much safer to just say "feth it" and train/have everyone use prop swords/axes/maces instead of spears in those large battle sequences. Especially when the bulk of your cast aren't exactly properly trained experts in spear fighting and you're on a pretty tight filming schedule with a limited budget.

It's just a lot easier to control a bunch of one-on-one fights than it is to co-ordinate a wall of spears...
I remember Craig Parker (Haldir) telling us how it took them the better part of two weeks or so to work out the "let's run/ride into a giant forest of prop pikes!" scenes. He mentioned how actually terrifying it is to actively run into that formation, as you have to trust the guys on the other end will pull up their spears/pikes in time or you get to enjoy a crapload of bruises!
The horses were even worse... Hell, Vigo got his tooth split because his horse got spooked by an Uruk-Hai stunt guy getting too close with his pike. The horse threw him and he split his tooth on a dude's armour.
And they spent something like 3 months and a bit filming just that battle... in the middle of New Zealand's winter just so they could be extra miserable!

GoT on the other hand films their entire season in just 3-4 months.

The vast majority of inaccuracies in medieval warfare in films/shows simply comes down to safety & insurance purposes.

Haven't read this thread as still working my way through Season 4 and want to avoid spoilers.

However, we've just watched Episode 8. I thought GoT had lost the power to shock after the Red Wedding, but can I just say...

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Didn't Lord of the Rings and Kingdom of heaven have ranks of spears?

Then again, Lord of Rings had a cavalry charge overrunning pikemen in a frontal assault...

May be misremembering here, but weren't the LoTR charges flank charges as the orks they were charging were laying siege to a city?

Bran Dawri wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:


Didn't Lord of the Rings and Kingdom of heaven have ranks of spears?

Then again, Lord of Rings had a cavalry charge overrunning pikemen in a frontal assault...

May be misremembering here, but weren't the LoTR charges flank charges as the orks they were charging were laying siege to a city?

Yes, but the Uruks & Orcs in both cases had time to redeploy and face the new threat head-on.

At Helm's Deep, Gandalf uses his magic to massively intensify the light of the rising sun and blind the Uruks.
At the Pelannor, the Orcs simply start peeing themselves at the sight of 6000 armoured horsemen coming full steam at them and book it, because... Orcs = cowards!

 Sasori wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Finally got around to watching Episode 8.
Liked what they did with Sansa, and the fight near the end was very well done and close to the book; in both instances I thought to myself "Obryn, you stupid cocky melon-fether, you should have just wasted the gak-stain"

Spoiler:

Oberyn wasn't stupid, he knew going into the fight that he had a very good chance of dying so he poisoned his spears. Gregor Clegane was doomed the second Oberyn drew first blood.

Oberyn was simply caught off guard in the heat of the moment, when he was probably feeling relieved that he'd (apparently) beaten the Mountain and dealt him a fatal wound.

As Bronn said, the Mountain is unnaturally quick for a man of his size, which implied that he'd personally seen the Mountain fight. If Oberyn had known the Mountain personally beforehand, and not just by reputation, then I doubt he would have dropped his guard and underestimated the Mountain.

Didn't he always poison his weapons though? That's what earned him the nickname "The Red Viper" if I remember correctly.

Ack, forgot to mention the obvious when replying to the original comment by Cthulu.

Oberyn went into the duel with a prior motive. He wanted Gregor Clegane to confess to the murder of his sister Elia Martell and her children, and to name Tywin Lannister as the one who ordered their deaths. He couldn't achieve that by just "wasting him" quickly. He needed to beat The Mountain and cripple him, but make his death as agonising and drawn out as possible until he gave in and confessed.

The Mountain was crippled (hamstrung) and dealt a near fatal wound (stabbed in the gut). Gregor appeared to be dying, which frustrated Oberyn because he still needed the confession. That frustration prompted him to lower his guard and get too close.

And even in death,Oberyn is laughing because he got the confession he wanted. Gregor confessed to the brutal murders, and though he did not admit to doing it under orders, Tywin still looks bad because everyone knows that The Mountain was the fanatically loyal attack dog of the Lannisters, and that Tywin is utterly ruthless and dangerous, and easily capable of ordering it. People would put two and two together, like with the Red Wedding (I doubt many Westerosi nobles seriously believe the Frey cover story that the Northerners transformed into werewolves and caused the massacre, though idk if that's come up in the show yet so it may be a spoiler).

. OR it appears that Tywin is unable to control his man, thereby making Tywin look weak.

And of course, Oberyn poisoned his spears to ensure that even if he lost to Gregor, that Gregor would still die anyway.


He certainly did not do it for Tyrion.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Spoiler:

Oh, I know why he got caught and that he poisoned his spears. I just thought it would have been wiser to, you know, cripple his arms and legs to limit the chance of retaliation

Also, does it bother anyone else how they didn't have spears at the siege of the Wall? A wall of pikes and spears would have been helpful against that giant.

Then again, that may be the armchair general side of me thinking.

It bothers me that no one in Westeros uses boiling oil, some of that at the southern gate would really have blunted the wildling attack.

They do in the book.

 gianlucafiorentini123 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Spoiler:

Oh, I know why he got caught and that he poisoned his spears. I just thought it would have been wiser to, you know, cripple his arms and legs to limit the chance of retaliation

Also, does it bother anyone else how they didn't have spears at the siege of the Wall? A wall of pikes and spears would have been helpful against that giant.

Then again, that may be the armchair general side of me thinking.

It bothers me that no one in Westeros uses boiling oil, some of that at the southern gate would really have blunted the wildling attack.

Supposedly. The reports from Dragonstone claimed that Loras took the castle at great cost, and was severely injured himself.

 gianlucafiorentini123 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Spoiler:

Oh, I know why he got caught and that he poisoned his spears. I just thought it would have been wiser to, you know, cripple his arms and legs to limit the chance of retaliation

Also, does it bother anyone else how they didn't have spears at the siege of the Wall? A wall of pikes and spears would have been helpful against that giant.

Then again, that may be the armchair general side of me thinking.

It bothers me that no one in Westeros uses boiling oil, some of that at the southern gate would really have blunted the wildling attack.

If you poured boiling oil from an 800 foot drop in sub zero temperatures, most of the heat would dissipate before it reached the ground, not to mention being so distributed by the winds that you'd have a hard time hitting your target.

 kronk wrote:

 gianlucafiorentini123 wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

Spoiler:

Oh, I know why he got caught and that he poisoned his spears. I just thought it would have been wiser to, you know, cripple his arms and legs to limit the chance of retaliation

Also, does it bother anyone else how they didn't have spears at the siege of the Wall? A wall of pikes and spears would have been helpful against that giant.

Then again, that may be the armchair general side of me thinking.

It bothers me that no one in Westeros uses boiling oil, some of that at the southern gate would really have blunted the wildling attack.

If you poured boiling oil from an 800 foot drop in sub zero temperatures, most of the heat would dissipate before it reached the ground, not to mention being so distributed by the winds that you'd have a hard time hitting your target.

But the southern gate was only about 20 feet high it would have been very effective there.

 gianlucafiorentini123 wrote:


But the southern gate was only about 20 feet high it would have been very effective there.

I see. Yes, that would work.

Yeah. I can't wait for the Tyrells to betray the lannisters and help the dornish people to attack the lannisters with Stannis and Dany.

Sooooo not going to happen!

Beside, that whole thinking in term of “good” and “bad” people is just so wrong…

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Sooooo not going to happen!

Spoiler:

Is it not clear in the show how the Tyrell hate the Dornish and vice versa?

Beside, that whole thinking in term of “good” and “bad” people is just so wrong…

Yeah. There aren't really any "bad" families.

I can't think of anyone that I'd call "Good" with a capital G at this point.

Also, poor chained dragons. They weren't even the ones that were being naughty. Drogon was!

 kronk wrote:
I can't think of anyone that I'd call "Good" with a capital G at this point.

Also, poor chained dragons. They weren't even the ones that were being naughty. Drogon was!

Agreed - thats what makes it annoying - been more sensible to wait till he came home to tell him - bad Dragon - no eating children..........also is it ever clear that he goes after humans in preference to animals - most carnivores find other animals more to their liking..................

Still once she has patched it up with him - she can go on to burn all the annoying people in Slavers Bay and Westros...............

 kronk wrote:

 gianlucafiorentini123 wrote:


But the southern gate was only about 20 feet high it would have been very effective there.

I see. Yes, that would work.

The walls of castle black are wooden, and burning oil might be a fire hazard. Parts of castle black burned down during the fight.

. In fact they're not really defensible walls at all, they're wooden buildings with a gate built between them. The "gatehouse" was little more than a covered walkway with windows, stretching across the gap between buildings with a gate added underneath.

The Night's Watch are forbidden to "fortify" their keeps against attack from the south (the Lords of the 7 Kingdoms), in the event that they rebel and declare war on the 7 Kingdoms as supposedly happened under the Night's King.

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 gianlucafiorentini123 wrote:


But the southern gate was only about 20 feet high it would have been very effective there.

I see. Yes, that would work.

The walls of castle black are wooden, and burning oil might be a fire hazard. Parts of castle black burned down during the fight.

. In fact they're not really defensible walls at all, they're wooden buildings with a gate built between them. The "gatehouse" was little more than a covered walkway with windows, stretching across the gap between buildings with a gate added underneath.

The Night's Watch are forbidden to "fortify" their keeps against attack from the south (the Lords of the 7 Kingdoms), in the event that they rebel and declare war on the 7 Kingdoms as supposedly happened under the Night's King.

i think its funny it happened one time! One time! Stupid Nights King.

Why do I have the feeling Tyrells will kick Cersi's ass?

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 gianlucafiorentini123 wrote:


But the southern gate was only about 20 feet high it would have been very effective there.

I see. Yes, that would work.

The walls of castle black are wooden, and burning oil might be a fire hazard. Parts of castle black burned down during the fight.

. In fact they're not really defensible walls at all, they're wooden buildings with a gate built between them. The "gatehouse" was little more than a covered walkway with windows, stretching across the gap between buildings with a gate added underneath.

The Night's Watch are forbidden to "fortify" their keeps against attack from the south (the Lords of the 7 Kingdoms), in the event that they rebel and declare war on the 7 Kingdoms as supposedly happened under the Night's King.

i think its funny it happened one time! One time! Stupid Nights King.

Why do I have the feeling Tyrells will kick Cersi's ass?

Because the Tyrell army and bank account dwarfs that f the Lannisters? And because the Lannisters have no loyal allies left that are in a position to give them aid?

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Shadow Captain Edithae wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 gianlucafiorentini123 wrote:


But the southern gate was only about 20 feet high it would have been very effective there.

I see. Yes, that would work.

The walls of castle black are wooden, and burning oil might be a fire hazard. Parts of castle black burned down during the fight.

. In fact they're not really defensible walls at all, they're wooden buildings with a gate built between them. The "gatehouse" was little more than a covered walkway with windows, stretching across the gap between buildings with a gate added underneath.

The Night's Watch are forbidden to "fortify" their keeps against attack from the south (the Lords of the 7 Kingdoms), in the event that they rebel and declare war on the 7 Kingdoms as supposedly happened under the Night's King.

i think its funny it happened one time! One time! Stupid Nights King.

Why do I have the feeling Tyrells will kick Cersi's ass?

Because the Tyrell army and bank account dwarfs that f the Lannisters? And because the Lannisters have no loyal allies left that are in a position to give them aid?

They have the Freys and Boltons. (Hahahaha,)

Who they themselves have no loyal allies.