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 dogma wrote:

Relapse wrote:

"Dude, the story in the OP is the opening of a porno. That kid is gonna be bragging about that lap dance for the rest of his life."

Did you miss the repeated instances in which he said she should be punished?

Relapse wrote:

But of course opinions on things like this that are discussed seem to be brushed off with memes or "won't someone think of the children" attempts at humor which show little or any understanding of what people that go through this ordeal feel.

Probably because the people that broach the topic generally become irrational whenever their opinions are criticized.

Pro-tip: if you want someone who has no reason to care about your particular situation to take you seriously; do not argue from emotion.

It's hard to take him seriously when he simultaniously makes statements like the one I quoted or this:

"The Teacher in the OP probably won't even go anywhere near a jail because, surprise, legally her actions don't amount to any charges of abuse. At most its indecency with a minor and even then, that's a really low level of it. That kid isn't scarred for life. He's not going to suffer any trauma, and in a year it's not even going to a blip on his radar except as a funny story he tells his friends."

The real pro tip is not to bother talking to someone about this who who boasts about caring for no one but himself.

Relapse wrote:

Something to wonder about is why a 15 year old is in middle school instead of high school. Was he special needs, or vulnurable in some other way?
If so, this makes the teacher's action all the more repellant.

Middle school normally runs up to 14, and a 15 year old kid may not be developmentally disabled; especially if his first language is not English.

 dogma wrote:

Relapse wrote:

Something to wonder about is why a 15 year old is in middle school instead of high school. Was he special needs, or vulnurable in some other way?
If so, this makes the teacher's action all the more repellant.

Middle school normally runs up to 14, and a 15 year old kid may not be developmentally disabled; especially if his first language is not English.

Does Texas do LEAP/Advancement tests after each grade? If so, could be he didn't pass one one year.

Relapse wrote:

The real pro tip is not to bother talking to someone about this who who boasts about caring for no one but himself.

A sentiment I've never expressed.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Does Texas do LEAP/Advancement tests after each grade? If so, could be he didn't pass one one year.

I honestly don't know, but I know grade repetition is a thing otherwise competent students must endure.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 dogma wrote:

Relapse wrote:

Something to wonder about is why a 15 year old is in middle school instead of high school. Was he special needs, or vulnurable in some other way?
If so, this makes the teacher's action all the more repellant.

Middle school normally runs up to 14, and a 15 year old kid may not be developmentally disabled; especially if his first language is not English.

Does Texas do LEAP/Advancement tests after each grade? If so, could be he didn't pass one one year.

That's something, at least. From these comments he probably wasn't mentaly impaired.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 dogma wrote:

Relapse wrote:

The real pro tip is not to bother talking to someone about this who who boasts about caring for no one but himself.

A sentiment I've never expressed.

.

You have expressed in the past if bad things that happen to others don't affect you personally, you don't care.

Build false reality where any sexual act directed at a child equals full blown rape and then blast anyone who disagrees with it as supporting child molestation.

Stay classy OT

 LordofHats wrote:
Build false reality where any sexual act directed at a child equals full blown rape and then blast anyone who disagrees with it as supporting child molestation.

Stay classy OT

Build false sense of reality that it's not that bad to molest children because they'll get to brag about it later.

Stay real classy. Lord.

So we're now conflating fully clothed lap dances with molestation? For someone who claims to have experience with the latter, Relapse, I would have thought trivialising such a thing would be abhorrent to you.

I uh, definitely do not equate what happened here with molestation. She's going to lose her job, she's been charged with a crime, she will never teach again, and possibly will go on a sex offender list: these are all appropriate and what I would have liked to have seen whether it was a male or female teacher.

I would reserve serious prison time for actual molestation, in which case I agree with Relapse that our judicial system is wildly biased towards letting off female offenders lightly.

You know, I've read the whole thread, and I'm pretty sure nobody has flat out said "she raped him", except the people calling others out for seeing it as rape. So yeah...stay classy.

Molestation? Inappropriate? Sexual? All of the above. Molestation can still happen with clothes on. But nobody has claimed rape. But, I realize this is the off topic thread and intelligence plays second fiddle to arguing with each other.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Molestation? Inappropriate? Sexual? All of the above. Molestation can still happen with clothes on.

Sure. By agreeing with that, I'm now realizing that (unlike rape) I don't exactly have a solid definition of "molestation", just a kind of fuzzy cloud of things it would be in. So at least part of the disagreement might just be that we (or at least me) haven't exactly decided on clear lines of the debate.

 -Shrike- wrote:
So we're now conflating fully clothed lap dances with molestation? For someone who claims to have experience with the latter, Relapse, I would have thought trivialising such a thing would be abhorrent to you.

Let's get clear on this. Does your definition of molestation only include rape?

something something rape culture something something double standards something something south park reference




just though I would save people 5 pages and get to the jist of it.

A stupid decision by a teacher has now become an inane Internet debate about definitions and semantics.

We're done here.

Could have been worse.

It could have been a geography lesson.

 WarOne wrote:
A stupid decision by a teacher has now become an inane Internet debate about definitions and semantics.

We're done here.

No, I'd say we're par for the course.

 LordofHats wrote:
As to the trauma; The event does not amount to trauma. It's not even close. Acting like it is disservices victims of trauma by watering down their experiences.

Trauma is not about what you experience, it is about how it impacted on you. And yeah, some trauma are bigger than others, does not mean the smaller ones are okay.

 LordofHats wrote:
As to the joke about it bit; because I was a teenager once. He's gonna be a super star.

And not everyone feels and thinks like you. He may be a super star, but will he enjoy it ? Have you watched the video I posted ?

LOL or

No mention of games, movies, and shows....

Kid
"Hey Teacher....what exactly is a lap dance?"

Teacher
"Flips the music on...."

Kid probably also watching porn to

Build false sense of reality that it's not that bad to molest children because they'll get to brag about it later.

You see, your little narrative only flys if we accept that a fully clothed lap dance is somehow equal to a predator stalking kids. I can try showing how utterly ridiculous that is all the way till Sunday (next Sunday) but I get the sense you'll stay right where you are on the other side of blatantly wrong see as this is the same inane logic you used in the Bundy threads.

Stay real classy. Lord.

I got to use all these hats for something

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Trauma is not about what you experience, it is about how it impacted on you.

Trauma is about what you experience because what you experience is what impacts you.

Let's get clear on this. Does your definition of molestation only include rape?

No, but it doesn't include fully clothed lap dances in a classroom filled with students either. The later fits my definition of incompetent teacher somehow failed to grasp that she was doing something stupid.

And not everyone feels and thinks like you.

Well duh. Wouldn't be having this conversation if everyone did.

Have you watched the video I posted ?

Much like Relapse, you're making the false equivalence that a fully clothed lap dance is somewhere in the same world as full blown sex, stalking, or the collection of other abuses that define child molesters. They are not.

 LordofHats wrote:

Build false sense of reality that it's not that bad to molest children because they'll get to brag about it later.

You see, your little narrative only flys if we accept that a fully clothed lap dance is somehow equal to a predator stalking kids. I can try showing how utterly ridiculous that is all the way till Sunday (next Sunday) but I get the sense you'll stay right where you are on the other side of blatantly wrong see as this is the same inane logic you used in the Bundy threads.

.

Somebody must have accepted it since she's gotten iinto at least some trouble. But then again, we see in your view, it's nothing at all when a 42 teacher does this 15 year old.

"Once the kid sat down, the forty something teacher gave him what was perhaps his first full-contact lap dance. According to a police report, Smith did the thing where she turned around and swiveled her butt on the middle school student. She rubbed her hands all over his body. She also got down on her knees and stuck her head between the boy’s legs."

Nothing more to say to you on this since you seem to believe this was a great thing for her to do.

Relapse wrote:
Somebody must have accepted it since she's getting slapped with.

... She's being charged with Inappropriate Relationship with a Student. That's not a rape charge. It's minimum sentence is 2 years and she probably won't see any prison cause she'll plead out and get probation. Unless she's seriously that dumb to walk into court and use "my kids said I should do it" as a defense, I doubt that'll last long.

But then again, we see in your view, it's nothing at all when a 42 teacher does this 15 year old.

Once again, I dispute what you say, you argue a straw man position literally no one in the thread has advocated.

So if you don't think that anything even remotely inappropriate is exactly the same level of wrongdoing as child rape then we are "soft in child abuse"?

 d-usa wrote:
So if you don't think that anything even remotely inappropriate is exactly the same level of wrongdoing as child rape then we are "soft in child abuse"?

That's the thing Lord keeps getting wrong. I think rape is a deeper level of evil to do to anyone, let alone a child. But he goes on about how the lap dance was a great thing and that the kid will be able to brag about it. This makes it clear he doesn't know, but is just projecting his own fantasies on the situation.
There is some serious damage though, that can come about from fondling and groping both for the child and family members, acoording to the things I learned from what happened to my daughter, listening to other parents at encounter groups, and what I learned from Child Protective Services.
My daughter was fairly traumatized by the event, even though no rape took place. I found out a week after the incident that this person had attacked another girl, but the parents were reluctant to come forward. I found out where they lived and went to their house to see if they wanted to be in on this case, because at the time it was my daughter's word against the attackers. The father didn't want to, but I persuaded him to speak off the record to the police so they could perhaps find another thread in his story and find other witnesses to interview.
Speaking with the father opened up a fair number of witnesses, including the attackers sister, who he had also molested.
At this point the police had enough to bring to the state and the trial went forward, consisting of motions and delays over the course of a year until the actual trial happened.
The other father came forward and told me that seeing what I was doing made him ashamed and he felt the need to bring his daughter forward also as a witness.
The trial was fairly emotional, as you might expect, but in the end, the attacker was sentenced. I made sure I was present at every evaluation hearing following that went over his fitness to be released. This appeared to amaze his defense attorney since most parents, in my area anyway, at this point have nothing further to do with such cases.
I am very protective of my children and perhaps there is a large degree of emotion that plays into my opinion, but they will know I never turned my back on them or failed to be there for them.
You may have read some comments in other threads in which I refer to my cousin who was a social worker handling children's cases for thirty years. I can quite easily see how it affected his health.

Relapse wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
So if you don't think that anything even remotely inappropriate is exactly the same level of wrongdoing as child rape then we are "soft in child abuse"?

That's the thing Lord keeps getting wrong. I think rape is a deeper level of evil to do to anyone, let alone a child. But he goes on about how the lap dance was a great thing and that the kid will be able to brag about it. This makes it clear he doesn't know, but is just projecting his own fantasies on the situation.

Except he's not. I've been reading his posts and by and large it's simply what always gets brought up in these kinds of situations:

We know that teens and preteens are vulnerable to predators, but there does exist a double standard with perceiving males as victims. It is a cultural thing and it isn't going away anytime soon. If this case involved a male teacher doing this to a male student, there would be an outcry of "poor boy!" but since it's a (relatively) attractive female teacher it gets waved off and any thoughts of victimization are pushed firmly to the back of the mind for observers.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
So if you don't think that anything even remotely inappropriate is exactly the same level of wrongdoing as child rape then we are "soft in child abuse"?

That's the thing Lord keeps getting wrong. I think rape is a deeper level of evil to do to anyone, let alone a child. But he goes on about how the lap dance was a great thing and that the kid will be able to brag about it. This makes it clear he doesn't know, but is just projecting his own fantasies on the situation.

Except he's not. You really need to read posts better before commenting.

What Kan said. LoH's posts don't say what you think they say, Relapse.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
So if you don't think that anything even remotely inappropriate is exactly the same level of wrongdoing as child rape then we are "soft in child abuse"?

That's the thing Lord keeps getting wrong. I think rape is a deeper level of evil to do to anyone, let alone a child. But he goes on about how the lap dance was a great thing and that the kid will be able to brag about it. This makes it clear he doesn't know, but is just projecting his own fantasies on the situation.

Except he's not. You really need to read posts better before commenting.

I think you should be the one to read posts instead. Once again, a direct quote:

"Dude, the story in the OP is the opening of a porno. That kid is gonna be bragging about that lap dance for the rest of his life."

I guess if he's making his judgements by the porn he watches, that explains a lot.

But you appear to act that like this situation is exactly the same amount of bad as yours, and if we don't agree with the severity then we must be laughing it off.

The kid will probably brag and get/give high fives all around, that will be his experience from this. Acknowledging that doesn't make the teachers actions any better. She faces consequences.

Her actions, and her consequences, will not be at the same level as the guy that violated your daughter and they shouldn't be considered the same. There is a world of difference there. They both have their own level of severity. Both kids will have different experiences to take away from that.

Nobody is saying that she is a great person for doing what she did. It doesn't matter if the boy is scarred for life or if this will be one of his best memories. That doesn't have any impact on her actions. What she did was wrong, which nobody is arguing against, and she is getting the punishment she deserves.

What we have here is two people looking at the same glass and doing the classic "half full/half empty" routine.

You think this kid was horribly violated, and it appears that because we don't agree with that you think that we must also not agree that your daughter was horribly violated.

We don't think that her actions equals horrible child abuse, and when you insist that what he went through is the exact same thing that your daughter went through it appears to some that you are trivializing what happened to her when you insist that a fully clothed lab dance is the exact same level of bad as what happened to her.

Nobody is saying that what she did was okay, they are just not aggreing with you that her actions and the reaction from the boy are at the same level as what happened to your daughter.

Relapse wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
So if you don't think that anything even remotely inappropriate is exactly the same level of wrongdoing as child rape then we are "soft in child abuse"?

That's the thing Lord keeps getting wrong. I think rape is a deeper level of evil to do to anyone, let alone a child. But he goes on about how the lap dance was a great thing and that the kid will be able to brag about it. This makes it clear he doesn't know, but is just projecting his own fantasies on the situation.

Except he's not. You really need to read posts better before commenting.

I think you should be the one to read posts instead. Once again, a direct quote:

"Dude, the story in the OP is the opening of a porno. That kid is gonna be bragging about that lap dance for the rest of his life."

It's called hyperbole.

This makes it clear he doesn't know, but is just projecting his own fantasies on the situation.

Hey man, you don't want to go there. gak will get weird.

Relapse wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Relapse wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
So if you don't think that anything even remotely inappropriate is exactly the same level of wrongdoing as child rape then we are "soft in child abuse"?

That's the thing Lord keeps getting wrong. I think rape is a deeper level of evil to do to anyone, let alone a child. But he goes on about how the lap dance was a great thing and that the kid will be able to brag about it. This makes it clear he doesn't know, but is just projecting his own fantasies on the situation.

Except he's not. You really need to read posts better before commenting.

I think you should be the one to read posts instead. Once again, a direct quote:

"Dude, the story in the OP is the opening of a porno. That kid is gonna be bragging about that lap dance for the rest of his life."

How is that "projecting his own fantasies on the situation"?

He's absolutely right though. This is something where the boy isn't really a "victim" in the traditional sense, nor is the case really worth you getting so worked up over.