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 Sigvatr wrote:
Don't be too fast to write 40k off. The news sound horrific indeed, but until we have not yet seen the entirety of the new rules, it might still take a good turn.

Unbound, however, will be completely unplayable.

even if you *can* play a balanced game within the ruleset, the fact that the ruleset officially allows you to go completely crazy is a testament to the game designers no longer caring about balance anymore.

I know you and your friend(s) could do this for the past 10 years, so call me an OCD kid, but the mere presence of there being an officially sanctioned option to field your army in the style of a 5 year old this way "legally", spoils the rest of the edition for me already.


It already began when Apocalypse was first launched in the mid 2000s, but that was always marketed as a high points level game mode and so if you didnt like it, you didnt buy the rules and stayed away from it.

6th edition brought the madness closer with the allies matrix and double FoC for battles of 2000 points plus, but again, gamers continued to see reason through the madness by saying 1 of each FoC is all you can take for allies so you cant overdo it, and 1999 point games became the replacement for 2000 point games. Then Inquisition came along and said "nope, you can field us along with your ally" but even so people sorta overlooked it, given that it divinination and servo skull spam was cheap/beardy, but not terribly broken


But with 7th edition officially slamming "crazy" mode as a fully legal, valid part of the game, there is no more running away from it.

With Unbound coming into the game wouldn't GW be effectively killing off their supplements/dataslates?

It seemed their main purpose was to create variations of existing armies, and obviously they still would for Battle-Forged Armies. But why go out and buy a whole supplement when you can just pull whatever you want from regular codices and to Hell with the restrictions?

Although the demon summoning would bring some unpredictable fun into the games.

This unbound stuff though, god damn does it sound more horrible than good.

 Accolade wrote:
With Unbound coming into the game wouldn't GW be effectively killing off their supplements/dataslates?

It seemed their main purpose was to create variations of existing armies, and obviously they still would for Battle-Forged Armies. But why go out and buy a whole supplement when you can just pull whatever you want from regular codices and to Hell with the restrictions?

because supplements offer new rules and quirks not present in the main armybook

Okay, so it's a hoax. There's definitive proof these scans are fake right there in the scans.

Look at the larger page, in the red area to the right. Bottom of the first paragraph starts with the word playtest.

We all know GW does not do that. Good job Photoshop.

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Although the demon summoning would bring some unpredictable fun into the games.

Yeah. For the last two years, everyone has been saying that what this game needed was more random stuff. It's awesome that GW is listening to their fans.


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 pretre wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:
Fluff players REJOICE!

Indeed. Because nothing will make fluff-oriented gamers happier than Eldar Farseers being able to summon Daemonettes to the table...

Rumors have said that the ally table still applies.

edit: Oh, you're talking Daemonology.

Indeed.

 pretre wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:
Fluff players REJOICE!

Indeed. Because nothing will make fluff-oriented gamers happier than Eldar Farseers being able to summon Daemonettes to the table...

Rumors have said that the ally table still applies.

edit: Oh, you're talking Daemonology.

Nevermind, you got it.

I do not know if anyone else saw this, but in the white part of that poster, there are imperial guard in the white portion.... Does it mean something do you think, a clue?

Oh yeah, eldar and slannesh......

 Sir Arun wrote:

 Accolade wrote:
With Unbound coming into the game wouldn't GW be effectively killing off their supplements/dataslates?

It seemed their main purpose was to create variations of existing armies, and obviously they still would for Battle-Forged Armies. But why go out and buy a whole supplement when you can just pull whatever you want from regular codices and to Hell with the restrictions?

because supplements offer new rules and quirks not present in the main armybook

I get that, but I feel like a big part of some of these supplements has been their ability to alter the FOC (i.e. Militarum Tempestus). Making an army Unbound would mean you wouldn't have as much of a need for FOC alteration.

On a separate note, does Daemonology mean psykers can summon and control daemons? I thought it was difficult enough for an Inquisitor to control a bound demon, let alone a horde of unbound ones.

Of course my understanding of Daemonology might not be right.

I'll say this; sales of next week's WD should be good.

 krazynadechukr wrote:
I do not know if anyone else saw this, but in the white part of that poster, there are Valhallans in the snow....

Speak of the devil.

Yay, I can field an entire army of Dominions!

Because seriously, I have no idea what "battleforge bonusses" could possible be better than ignores cover on everything with massed special weapons and Scout.

Okay. So at this point the question is pretty much "what will the bonuses for battle-forged lists be?". And if the bonuses are good, then OK. If they are not significant enough, then GW has broken their game :(

I don't get the idea behind Unbound. People can do that right now. Granted, no one except their friends will want to play against them, but there's nothing stopping you from just throwing models at the table.

Now the same people that would try this before can do so officially. And no one except their friends will want to play against them, because for every fluffy LatD army there will be one, nay, five all Riptide list run by morons trying to prove something with toy soldiers.

What's left of competitive events will be FOC only, the rest will be a mire of people butthurt about not being able to find a game any more because everyone's playing a different kind of 40k.


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 Rostere wrote:
Okay. So at this point the question is pretty much "what will the bonuses for battle-forged lists be?". And if the bonuses are good, then OK. If they are not significant enough, then GW has broken their game :(

The only bonus that would balance Unbound vs FOC lists is if the FOC army wins if it has models on the table after the first turn.

The first thing that occurs to me is to wonder if this might hurt sales of certain troops choices. I'm not familiar with what various troops choices are good or bad across different armies, but there are definitely some that people take as few of as they HAVE to, according to the FOC. Throw FOC out the window, and you can have just whole armies of Helldrakes, right? Why bother with the overcosted (compared to SM) Chaos Space Marine troops?

-C6

 Talizvar wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
Financial desperation thy name is "Unbound"?

Hehehe...
Your wallet... "Unbound"
The number of allies... "Unbound"
GW revenue... "Unbound"
Competitive players... unhinged... er, "Unbound"
Finding a "normal" game... "Unbound"
Armybuilder programmers... "Unbound"
Kirby... "Unbound"!

It works for so many things!

Your bum when your opponent pulls out an army of Riptides: extremely bound.

At least this way it's going to be more obvious which units are broken and which are not.

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 Talizvar wrote:
Fluff players REJOICE!

Indeed. Because nothing will make fluff-oriented gamers happier than Eldar Farseers being able to summon Daemonettes to the table...

Rumors have said that the ally table still applies.

edit: Oh, you're talking Daemonology.

Nevermind, you got it.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there will be restrictions on who can use the Demonology disciplines, just like with every other psychic discipline.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Don't be too fast to write 40k off. The news sound horrific indeed, but until we have not yet seen the entirety of the new rules, it might still take a good turn.

Unbound, however, will be completely unplayable. Also: does Unbound mean that Apocalpyse is discontinued?

No, I think the first statement applies to Unbound as well. Without the complete rule set it's too early to declare anything dead.

 gorgon wrote:
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there will be restrictions on who can use the Demonology disciplines, just like with every other psychic discipline.

Of course. Tyranids can't use it.

It all sounds strange but oddly interesting at the same time.

We know nothing about the new missions and victory conditions. That alone may be enough the potential imbalance caused by 8-riptide armies.

Because we all know tournaments are going to be Unbound and not Battle-Forged right?

I suppose I'm in the vast minority. Everything on those pages really excites me.

Maybe I'm giving GW too much credit (read: Yes, probably I am) but I have to imagine all the rage in this thread are things they've thought about.

I'll reserve judgement on the whole "unbounded" thing until we see how this is all supposed to play out. It might say explicitly that it's intended for "forge the narrative" games, knowing full well they might be unbalanced.

 Accolade wrote:
With Unbound coming into the game wouldn't GW be effectively killing off their supplements/dataslates?

It seemed their main purpose was to create variations of existing armies, and obviously they still would for Battle-Forged Armies. But why go out and buy a whole supplement when you can just pull whatever you want from regular codices and to Hell with the restrictions?

No.

Because a supplement-formation would be "battle-forged"... e.g. stick to a pre-made structure and get a bonus. Indeed, it seems the regular old-school FoC has been demoted to "just one formation among many".

One Riptide and 6 Broadsides "unforged" are just that.
One Riptide and 6 Broadsides "battle-forged" through the Tau Fire Support Cadre give you Tank Hunter on top.

 gorgon wrote:
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there will be restrictions on who can use the Demonology disciplines, just like with every other psychic discipline.

According to the posted White Dwarf excerpt, it's everyone except Tyranids. Because reasons.

 techsoldaten wrote:
Okay, so it's a hoax. There's definitive proof these scans are fake right there in the scans.

Look at the larger page, in the red area to the right. Bottom of the first paragraph starts with the word playtest.

We all know GW does not do that. Good job Photoshop.

Tell that to the playtesters credited in every GW book.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
Okay, so it's a hoax. There's definitive proof these scans are fake right there in the scans.

Look at the larger page, in the red area to the right. Bottom of the first paragraph starts with the word playtest.

We all know GW does not do that. Good job Photoshop.

Tell that to the playtesters credited in every GW book.

Don't feed the trolls.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Yay, I can field an entire army of Dominions!

Because seriously, I have no idea what "battleforge bonusses" could possible be better than ignores cover on everything with massed special weapons and Scout.

Sisters confirmed for the scariest Alpha Strike army of all Meltas then?

Cant see many tournaments allowing unbound lists.

Please more leaks, I have never been more worried for this hobby, jesus get me more leaks.

Havent played in a year or two and would finally be able to start again soon but now as it is, what fun would I find bringing my Black Templars to the shop when I would probably be playing people spamming fecking flyers or lightning terminators or Hive tyrants or Trygons or Monoliths..... where would the fun be in that? For them of course, for me, feck no.

People wont be making unbound lists for fun, they will be making them to not lose a bloody game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 insaniak wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that there will be restrictions on who can use the Demonology disciplines, just like with every other psychic discipline.

According to the posted White Dwarf excerpt, it's everyone except Tyranids. Because reasons.

Tyranids clearly have the common decency not to dabble with those less than reputable folk.