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 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Okay I just realized that Eldar is getting Daemonology, and might summon daemons.

Can someone explain to me what is going on there.

There appears to be 2 disciplines of it. One to summon and buff Daemons and one to banish and debuff Daemons. Presumably the divide between the two should be good/bad armies. It's true purpose is to sell more Daemons.

The lack of the FOC and the way it was stated in the WD, "the only limit is what models you have", just SCREAMS we only did this to sell more obnoxiously priced miniatures

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
The FOC. Nobody would play against it.

And this changes now... how?

I can use them in an unbound game. My gaming buddies have all said they'll play against it now it's going to be legal.

The best thing about this is that 6th edition has a rule that literally never did anything, and now it never will (ie that "summoning" psychic discipline, whatever it was called).

It's like GW heard the complaints of six and deliberately did the exact opposite just to give the players the middle finger.
(Of course that's not what happened. GW doesn't listen to complaints.)

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Okay I just realized that Eldar is getting Daemonology, and might summon daemons.

Can someone explain to me what is going on there.

Yeah, not what you think, the "good" armies get an anti-demon lore, so they'll be able to banish, rather than conjure, by the sounds of it.

I just hope that there's some in built protection for daemon armies, otherwise we could end up with 5th GK Warpquake auto win type nonsense again.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
The FOC. Nobody would play against it.

And this changes now... how?

There were lots of people who wouldn't play against flyers at the start of 6th. After a few months, people had to accept them, even if they didn't have any skyfire or their own flyers. Same thing will happen here.

"I'm following the rules, what's the problem? I don't get it"
"Well, I read on the internet that unbound army lists are only for power gamers, so I'm not going to play."

That can only last so long...

 MWHistorian wrote:
It's like GW heard the complaints of six and deliberately did the exact opposite just to give the players the middle finger.
(Of course that's not what happened. GW doesn't listen to complaints.)

Isn't what they do every edition?

Gamer: 'Vehicles are too powerful in 5th edition! It's Metal Boxes everywhere!'
GW: Well now they are completely useless in 6th! But now MC will destroy everything.

Reading the last dozen or so pages is like being in a leaky life raft and someone tells you the good news that they cut a hole in the bottom for all the water to drain out.

I'm already having trouble staying interested in the game and finding out we are getting super short editions at an increased cost does nothing to make me feel motivated towards the game. A short edition tells me that the company realizes they sold a product that's worth it's weight in poo and instead of trying to rectify that issue they will try and sell another shovel full of manure just to make an extra buck. This is how I felt BEFORE finding out about Unhinged. Or Unbound. Whatever.

This is why GW needs marketing and PR. This is like the Xbox One release where they didn't mention games at all and informed how difficult it would be to share.

 Eldarain wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Okay I just realized that Eldar is getting Daemonology, and might summon daemons.

Can someone explain to me what is going on there.

There appears to be 2 disciplines of it. One to summon and buff Daemons and one to banish and debuff Daemons. Presumably the divide between the two should be good/bad armies. It's true purpose is to sell more Daemons.

The former sounds like it's going to break my daemon army. Well guys, nice playing this game but the ride is about over for me. I thought it was going to be a sidegrade but this is just too much BS at once. Any vague interest has crumbled. I'll probably stick to this game a bit but.... I dunno. This is just so remarkably stupid on so many levels that I can't even really say I want to play 40k that much. I guess it's time to start working on warmahordes or drop zone commander?

At this point, why even buy codices? They come out too fast and basically say to throw the rules out.

 Crablezworth wrote:


It's certainly disheartening for them to mention battle forged and unbound and then gleefully focus primarily on the latter.

Let's be honest, battle forged will be treated, by GW, as the beaten and abused red headed stepchild of the two choices. It's basically there as a bone for the older players. They don't want anything getting in the way as many little timmys buying as many of the cool awesome model as they can. That include rules.

NamelessBard wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
The FOC. Nobody would play against it.

And this changes now... how?

There were lots of people who wouldn't play against flyers at the start of 6th. After a few months, people had to accept them, even if they didn't have any skyfire or their own flyers. Same thing will happen here.

"I'm following the rules, what's the problem? I don't get it"
"Well, I read on the internet that unbound army lists are only for power gamers, so I'm not going to play."

That can only last so long...

Most people didn't want to play against fliers at the beginning of 6th because most armies didn't have fliers or AA of their own.
With "Unbound" aka. Clusterfeth" there's nothing your "warforged" list can realistically do against an army of riptides or Heldrakes.

That's a big difference. You think "unbound" sounds cool, but look at it hot it will actually play out and its a total unworkable mess that is a free reign for abuse and shafts the guy that goes for a pickup game with his tac-list.

What I don't get is why make rules for this? Why not just make fluffy players do what they always do? I'm a fluffy player. There's no rule for making your own characters but my group have. We've made special rules and ignored the FOC before. So why?

I pre-ordered 5th.

Walked in and bought 6th on the day of release.

7th...I am going to wait a few weeks and see what folks think.

 MWHistorian wrote:

That's a big difference. You think "unbound" sounds cool, but look at it hot it will actually play out and its a total unworkable mess that is a free reign for abuse and shafts the guy that goes for a pickup game with his tac-list.

There is a thread in the general forum discussing all the stupid possible combinations now.

I just can't understand the thinking behind why people suddenly say "Now I can field this!". You always could. Nothing was stopping you outside of your opponent.

It's like "forging a narrative", you've never needed a set of rules to tell you that you can field anything. You could always do that.

jamesk1973 wrote:
I pre-ordered 5th.

Walked in and bought 6th on the day of release.

7th...I am going to wait a few weeks and see what folks think.

I'll have it day 1 for coverage like I do with codexes/other 40k rulebooks.

 Eldarain wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Okay I just realized that Eldar is getting Daemonology, and might summon daemons.

Can someone explain to me what is going on there.

There appears to be 2 disciplines of it. One to summon and buff Daemons and one to banish and debuff Daemons. Presumably the divide between the two should be good/bad armies. It's true purpose is to sell more Daemons.

Sure it's a cash grab...


But it means I can finally do the stuff I did back in 2nd and 3rd! A return to summoning daemons by chaos! And slight more importance placed on the armies of Chaos and their effects..

It's like "forging a narrative", you've never needed a set of rules to tell you that you can field anything. You could always do that.

Campaigns are fun, we use old veteran rules to establish certain units are a far more credible threat in specific battles.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
There is a thread in the general forum discussing all the stupid possible combinations now.

That didn't take as long as I thought it would.

GW dropped the ball by putting out that half-assed cock tease of an article and not giving us the big rundown from the following week's WD and instead spending that WD talking about what they want to do with the rules.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Okay I just realized that Eldar is getting Daemonology, and might summon daemons.

Can someone explain to me what is going on there.

There appears to be 2 disciplines of it. One to summon and buff Daemons and one to banish and debuff Daemons. Presumably the divide between the two should be good/bad armies. It's true purpose is to sell more Daemons.

Sure it's a cash grab...


But it means I can finally do the stuff I did back in 2nd and 3rd! A return to summoning daemons by chaos! And slight more importance placed on the armies of Chaos and their effects..

True enough. I am a bit worried about how the Banishment element will play out against people fielding an army from Codex: Daemons.

 Eldarain wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Okay I just realized that Eldar is getting Daemonology, and might summon daemons.

Can someone explain to me what is going on there.

There appears to be 2 disciplines of it. One to summon and buff Daemons and one to banish and debuff Daemons. Presumably the divide between the two should be good/bad armies. It's true purpose is to sell more Daemons.

Sure it's a cash grab...


But it means I can finally do the stuff I did back in 2nd and 3rd! A return to summoning daemons by chaos! And slight more importance placed on the armies of Chaos and their effects..

True enough. I am a bit worried about how the Banishment element will play out against people fielding an army from Codex: Daemons.

Considering you could possibly summon more (portalglyph) and then even more summoning with buffs (it mentions being daemonspawn specifically), you might be able to buffer yourself against it, and summon more to deal with things.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I just can't understand the thinking behind why people suddenly say "Now I can field this!". You always could. Nothing was stopping you outside of your opponent.

It's like "forging a narrative", you've never needed a set of rules to tell you that you can field anything. You could always do that.

The problem has always been some people playing against people who refuse to play against armies that don't follow the GW written rules (despite the game supporting homebrew and fan tweaks).

Hmm not willing to buy in for yet another 40k book, warpath (as an option to use my marines for another system) is still a year or better away, guess I didn't need to dust my marines off recently afterall. Guess I will let you guys speculate and then do the actual tooth-cutting, will have to look again in a number of months after the dust has settled to see if its worth dusting them off again.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I just can't understand the thinking behind why people suddenly say "Now I can field this!". You always could. Nothing was stopping you outside of your opponent.

It's like "forging a narrative", you've never needed a set of rules to tell you that you can field anything. You could always do that.

I completely agree with you.

I already have my Harlequin army leftover from 2nd ed. I just haven't been able to play them, purely down to player objection.

 azreal13 wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:
Okay I just realized that Eldar is getting Daemonology, and might summon daemons.

Can someone explain to me what is going on there.

Yeah, not what you think, the "good" armies get an anti-demon lore, so they'll be able to banish, rather than conjure, by the sounds of it.

I just hope that there's some in built protection for daemon armies, otherwise we could end up with 5th GK Warpquake auto win type nonsense again.

This is pretty much exactly my main fear, it's bad enough that GK's exist in the form they do and I've been dreading them getting an update, no army should be tailored to pound another army, imagine the outcry if they did ordo xenos with masses of specific anti-ork or eldar weaponry.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I just can't understand the thinking behind why people suddenly say "Now I can field this!". You always could. Nothing was stopping you outside of your opponent.

It's like "forging a narrative", you've never needed a set of rules to tell you that you can field anything. You could always do that.

The problem has always been some people playing against people who refuse to play against armies that don't follow the GW written rules (despite the game supporting homebrew and fan tweaks).

and that's much easier to do in pick up games where you really need a governing set of rules otherwise your whole night is taken up by what is and isn't acceptable.

If you could "always do that", then you don't need a rulebook. Just make up your own rules, push some minis around and have fun.

Puscifer wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I just can't understand the thinking behind why people suddenly say "Now I can field this!". You always could. Nothing was stopping you outside of your opponent.

It's like "forging a narrative", you've never needed a set of rules to tell you that you can field anything. You could always do that.

I completely agree with you.

I already have my Harlequin army leftover from 2nd ed. I just haven't been able to play them, purely down to player objection.

I don't have my 2nd Edition Chaos Warband any more, but these changes would let me field it again, without the need to pre-arrange a game or try and find a willing victim at my somewhat orthodox club.

I'm hoping the fact that primary detachments of Chaos Daemons carry a Warpstorm with them means this Daemonic banishment stuff only applies to Daemonic allies or summoned daemons.
Otherwise my Mono-Khorne list is about to get even worse along with a brand new phase my army can do little to nothing in!

Puscifer wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I just can't understand the thinking behind why people suddenly say "Now I can field this!". You always could. Nothing was stopping you outside of your opponent.

It's like "forging a narrative", you've never needed a set of rules to tell you that you can field anything. You could always do that.

I completely agree with you.

I already have my Harlequin army leftover from 2nd ed. I just haven't been able to play them, purely down to player objection.

How is that any different from now though? There's two options and the people who didn't let you probably will usually still not let you.

 MWHistorian wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Puscifer wrote:
The FOC. Nobody would play against it.

And this changes now... how?

There were lots of people who wouldn't play against flyers at the start of 6th. After a few months, people had to accept them, even if they didn't have any skyfire or their own flyers. Same thing will happen here.

"I'm following the rules, what's the problem? I don't get it"
"Well, I read on the internet that unbound army lists are only for power gamers, so I'm not going to play."

That can only last so long...

Most people didn't want to play against fliers at the beginning of 6th because most armies didn't have fliers or AA of their own.
With "Unbound" aka. Clusterfeth" there's nothing your "warforged" list can realistically do against an army of riptides or Heldrakes.

That's a big difference. You think "unbound" sounds cool, but look at it hot it will actually play out and its a total unworkable mess that is a free reign for abuse and shafts the guy that goes for a pickup game with his tac-list.

It can be cool, if it is not abused, but I won't be playing it in the beginning anyway.