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 ClockworkZion wrote:
Originally posted on /tg/ and rehosted by me:

So seem this table is largely going to stick to CSM and daemons. Besides that, the only people that can cast this spell are named HQs ofr SM and Eldar.

My math isn't up to figuring out the odds of rolling three 4+ results on n dice, but I think it's pretty difficult. If rolling lots of dice means a significantly higher risk of perils, that's even worse.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:


But being cut off from using a power you have access to because you don't wanna buy a codex is just a ok when you already pay a premium for the basic rules. Yup gotcha. Here's your hamburger and french fries but if you eat any fries its an extra 60 bucks.

Except the demon models basic statlines aside from special rules are in the rulebook in 6th in the back?

The special rules are a big part though. You would need the "daemon of _____" special rules, and in the case of horrors, their psychic powers.

 Happygrunt wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:


But being cut off from using a power you have access to because you don't wanna buy a codex is just a ok when you already pay a premium for the basic rules. Yup gotcha. Here's your hamburger and french fries but if you eat any fries its an extra 60 bucks.

Except the demon models basic statlines aside from special rules are in the rulebook in 6th in the back?

The special rules are a big part though. You would need the "daemon of _____" special rules, and in the case of horrors, their psychic powers.

True, but you dont need the Daemon Codex just for the basic model stats, which I believe said poster was complaining about.

Special rules yea, not not basic statlines

Has the transport section been completely posted here? I got it from another site.

As per daemons, it makes me really wonder how the daemon of tzeentch rule will roll with this or if they'll edit it (no idea)

Really like those malefic powers, hopefully only chaos can get em. Perhaps its time to convert the all khorne army to word bearers.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Happygrunt wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:


But being cut off from using a power you have access to because you don't wanna buy a codex is just a ok when you already pay a premium for the basic rules. Yup gotcha. Here's your hamburger and french fries but if you eat any fries its an extra 60 bucks.

Except the demon models basic statlines aside from special rules are in the rulebook in 6th in the back?

The special rules are a big part though. You would need the "daemon of _____" special rules, and in the case of horrors, their psychic powers.

True, but you dont need the Daemon Codex just for the basic model stats, which I believe said poster was complaining about.

Special rules yea, not not basic statlines

Actually not having the special rules is what I'm most upset by with this. There's no reason to try for daemons at all if you don't have their special rules. Not to mention don't they have the instability chart?

If you wanted to play daemons in the first place, why wouldnt you have a chaos codex?

Mr.Church13 wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:
So we're up to...

7th ed rules
Mission cards
And Codex Deamons required to use the psychic powers

That start gap grows ever wider still.

Except for the fact you won't need the cards or the daemon codex to play the game. You have to have a Mastery Level 3 psyker to even use most of them. There is more than the malefic psychic chart.

Except for the fact that unless they provide the full rules special and statline wise for all those daemons in the BRB. You in fact will need the Codex: Chaos Deamons to make use of the powers of summoning at all.

Except for the fact the Malefic powers aren't required to play the game.

But being cut off from using a power you have access to because you don't wanna buy a codex is just a ok when you already pay a premium for the basic rules. Yup gotcha. Here's your hamburger and french fries but if you eat any fries its an extra 60 bucks.

So they should reprint the complete rules section oft the demons Codex in the BRB? Hat would be just Plain stupid not only FrOm business perspective but also from a development perspective. never have the same stuff in 2 places because then it is way harder to change. besides, fluff bunnies probably alrleady habe the demons dex and TFGs deserve to be Milked :-)

I think the Malefic stuff is only a problem from the perspective that if it's dominant and top-tier competitive (whatever that means anymore) then it leaves players who didn't purchase the additional rules out in the cold.

People can (or...could) ignore the expansions like Escalation, and it was always easy enough to justify ignoring it. Ignoring Malefic psychic powers is a whole different thing.

 Happygrunt wrote:
That throne belongs to IG and I doubt they will be giving it up. There is a fluff reason for IG to ally with every faction. Not so with everyone else.

Right now Astra Militarum has only 6 Allies of Convenience options, while Tau has 8. The kings, however, are Eldar and GK armies: 10 choices (half of them). Gk with so many AoC doesn't make much sense; Eldar do, but Tau is much more prone to work with others AND depart in good terms. IG as well, but by the last snippet of info, Imperials are all BBs with each other - and IG already is (except with GK).

Is the "Sacrifice" power the first time you can spawn a unit and make wargear choices mid-game?

If the Herald and his Portalglyph/Grimoire die could you then summon a new one with a replacement Portalglyph/Grimoire?

Strange Times.

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Really like those malefic powers, hopefully only chaos can get em. Perhaps its time to convert the all khorne army to word bearers.

To be honest I can't see anybody else using them that much. The primaris often influences who will field it but the question becomes... how many ML3+ psykers are there in the game? Daemons can get them easily, CSM can easily, Eldar can, and named characters of the SM (1 each) can get this. Besides that, I think the last one is brotherhood of psykers IG maybe? Out of the rules, you can't even use the primaris which means you have to roll a 1d6 until you get 1, 2, 3, or 4 as those are the only ones you can cast without having 3 charges. It buffs daemons? Of no use to anybody but a chaos force. 2 is crummy, 3 could be useful for popping tanks, and conjuration really only helps daemons as they can't join any other unit. The concept is to summon a horde, then conjure a herald to lead them afterall

Bell of Lost Sense is claiming $80 for the book:

Warhammer 7th Edition: Price: roughly $80

Edition is presented in a new format, 3 hardcover books in a slipcover. Pagecount of all three is about 450 pages in total:

The Rulebook: @200 pages, only rules

The Grimdark: @128 pages - Fluff and history of the Warhammer universe

The Hobby: @114 pages - Full miniatures and hobby book. All splash pics, and intro to the hobby stuff.

Ok. So we need as many successful denials as the psychers have successful castings. For example for a level two power a psycher rolls four dice and gets 1,3,5,5 since two of the four are 4+ the power works and in order to deny it I need to roll six dice in order to have a real chance at a successful denial. I can just roll one and hope for the unlikely result of six. that makes the psychic powers seem so much worse than I had thought.

I am wondering, If the patrons of Dakka were to write our own rule book for miniatures what would it look like and considering how many people there are could we make it be 1) better than the 7th ed 40K book and 2) make it ready for download before the 24th?

I think it will take us (by that i mean Warhammer players) working together to stop buying new stuff and all of us sending letters to GW telling them why we stopped buying their product to get any change from them. The big boyz at GW may be able to turn a blind eye to the forums of a few sites but dismissing a huge pile of letters on the desk and a blank spot where the piles of cash used to be is something else.

 StarTrotter wrote:

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Really like those malefic powers, hopefully only chaos can get em. Perhaps its time to convert the all khorne army to word bearers.

To be honest I can't see anybody else using them that much. The primaris often influences who will field it but the question becomes... how many ML3+ psykers are there in the game? Daemons can get them easily, CSM can easily, Eldar can, and named characters of the SM (1 each) can get this. Besides that, I think the last one is brotherhood of psykers IG maybe? Out of the rules, you can't even use the primaris which means you have to roll a 1d6 until you get 1, 2, 3, or 4 as those are the only ones you can cast without having 3 charges. It buffs daemons? Of no use to anybody but a chaos force. 2 is crummy, 3 could be useful for popping tanks, and conjuration really only helps daemons as they can't join any other unit. The concept is to summon a horde, then conjure a herald to lead them afterall

This assumes that you aren't able to select/cast spells with Warp Charges in excess of your Mastery Level. With you generating a pool of dice that mechanic may no longer be in place.

Oh wow, 200 pages of just rules!?

Psychotic.

 StarTrotter wrote:

So seem this table is largely going to stick to CSM and daemons. Besides that, the only people that can cast this spell are named HQs ofr SM and Eldar.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if mastery level no longer restricts use of powers anymore - you just get to make fewer random power rolls at the start of the game and get less guaranteed warp charges to activate them with.

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:
Any help for the work blocked?

http://talkwargaming.blogspot.com/2014/05/news-daemonology-leaked.html

Thank you, sir!

No problem.

So, cursed earth is basically here to ensure screamerstar stays the same, while dark flame and infernal gaze are stupidly underpowered ?
lol.

 Blacksails wrote:
Oh wow, 200 pages of just rules!?

Psychotic.

I think what's even crazier is it's not like they are trying for balance, so it's not it's a ton of air-tight explanations or some-such.

 Eldarain wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Really like those malefic powers, hopefully only chaos can get em. Perhaps its time to convert the all khorne army to word bearers.

To be honest I can't see anybody else using them that much. The primaris often influences who will field it but the question becomes... how many ML3+ psykers are there in the game? Daemons can get them easily, CSM can easily, Eldar can, and named characters of the SM (1 each) can get this. Besides that, I think the last one is brotherhood of psykers IG maybe? Out of the rules, you can't even use the primaris which means you have to roll a 1d6 until you get 1, 2, 3, or 4 as those are the only ones you can cast without having 3 charges. It buffs daemons? Of no use to anybody but a chaos force. 2 is crummy, 3 could be useful for popping tanks, and conjuration really only helps daemons as they can't join any other unit. The concept is to summon a horde, then conjure a herald to lead them afterall

This assumes that you aren't able to select/cast spells with Warp Charges in excess of your Mastery Level. With you generating a pool of dice that mechanic may no longer be in place.

My thoughts exactly. ML may just add to the dice pool and doesn't restrict what powers you can use. Low ML may make perils worse for you, high ML may mitigate perils.

 StarTrotter wrote:

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Really like those malefic powers, hopefully only chaos can get em. Perhaps its time to convert the all khorne army to word bearers.

To be honest I can't see anybody else using them that much. The primaris often influences who will field it but the question becomes... how many ML3+ psykers are there in the game? Daemons can get them easily, CSM can easily, Eldar can, and named characters of the SM (1 each) can get this. Besides that, I think the last one is brotherhood of psykers IG maybe? Out of the rules, you can't even use the primaris which means you have to roll a 1d6 until you get 1, 2, 3, or 4 as those are the only ones you can cast without having 3 charges. It buffs daemons? Of no use to anybody but a chaos force. 2 is crummy, 3 could be useful for popping tanks, and conjuration really only helps daemons as they can't join any other unit. The concept is to summon a horde, then conjure a herald to lead them afterall

Relatively few armies are going to be able to muster the warp charge necessary to cast those Malefic powers assuming you need three 4+ rolls to cast many of them if I was told correctly. IG, CSM, GK, Daemons and Eldar are the only armies with a realistic chance. Hell, IG would need two ML2 Primaris Psykers and an ML1 to be guaranteed the 6 dice necessary to cast a warp charge 3 power, and 6 dice is no guarantee.

 Accolade wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:
Oh wow, 200 pages of just rules!?

Psychotic.

I think what's even crazier is it's not like they are trying for balance so it's not like it's a ton of air-tight explanations.

Every other page will be dedicated to 'Forging the Narrative'.

Are they just trying to see how many pages they can make their rule books now? There's no way a well designed game could even attempt 200 pages.

And we're not even talking how codices factor in to the total page numbers it takes for two people to have a game.

As a big psyker nerd this made me weep in bliss.

 xttz wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

So seem this table is largely going to stick to CSM and daemons. Besides that, the only people that can cast this spell are named HQs ofr SM and Eldar.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if mastery level no longer restricts use of powers anymore - you just get to make fewer random power rolls at the start of the game and get less guaranteed warp charges to activate them with.

Probably true considering the Primaris for malefic is warp charge 3.

 StarTrotter wrote:
Has the transport section been completely posted here? I got it from another site)

What? Where?

Ragnar69 wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:
Has the transport section been completely posted here? I got it from another site)

What? Where?

^ Post it here?

On a side note, I'm laughing so much. They managed to make the Flaming Chariot of Tzeentch worse!

Mr.Church13 wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:

 Sinful Hero wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:
So we're up to...

7th ed rules
Mission cards
And Codex Deamons required to use the psychic powers

That start gap grows ever wider still.

Except for the fact you won't need the cards or the daemon codex to play the game. You have to have a Mastery Level 3 psyker to even use most of them. There is more than the malefic psychic chart.

Except for the fact that unless they provide the full rules special and statline wise for all those daemons in the BRB. You in fact will need the Codex: Chaos Deamons to make use of the powers of summoning at all.

Except for the fact the Malefic powers aren't required to play the game.

But being cut off from using a power you have access to because you don't wanna buy a codex is just a ok when you already pay a premium for the basic rules. Yup gotcha. Here's your hamburger and french fries but if you eat any fries its an extra 60 bucks.

Your metaphor is terrible. There's a whole menu, and you can spend whatever you want to get what you want. No one's forcing you to use malefic powers. My tyranid codex has all these units in it, but to use them I have to buy them! What a rip-off! If you want to summon daemons with your CSM, you might want to know what you're summoning.