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Looks like no is BB with Necrons or Tau according to 4chan.

Necrons had no BB in 6th too.

 agnosto wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
Man, that's a whole lot of level 3 psychic powers.

And if the way the powers are used is correct then you need to roll 3+ dice with a 4 or better on each of them to cast the powers. I see lots of dice being thrown to get these off.

And my Tau will be able to do nothing about this stuff....gee, I'm facing an army with 20 dice in the psychic phase and I have a maximum of 6...wow.

Of course we'll be able to. For every die the enemy arm gets, the opponent get as many for DtW. They get 20+ dice to cast, we get 20+ dice to deny.

 Eldarain wrote:
Is the "Sacrifice" power the first time you can spawn a unit and make wargear choices mid-game?

If the Herald and his Portalglyph/Grimoire die could you then summon a new one with a replacement Portalglyph/Grimoire?

Strange Times.

A unit of Plaguebearers with Herald of Nurgle (Greater Locus of Fecundity) can be a safe haven for Sacrifice. Cast it and try to sacrifice one of them. FnP isn't a save! (unless they change it). Epidemius can work as well, if you manage to collect 21 wounds (FnP 4+ within 6" of him). Oh well, Biomancy to help other folks as CSM. Can be used for Possession as well, if it nets you a Perils.
A guy wanting to grab Possession could field naked ML 3 psykers. 5 Heralds of Tzeentch suddenly become 5 LoCs! THE CHANGE HAS SPOKEN!

The rule book part seems to be big, but if they included Escalation and Stronghold content in there, I guess its going to count for an important part of the book.

People seem to be assuming that only ML 3 Psykers can cast Level 3 powers. I don't see any reason why that would be the case. More likely, you can push any number of dice you like through a psyker and ML only affects the number of powers they have and the number of dice they add to the pool.

How good summoning will be very much depends on the Deny the Witch mechanics. If it's difficult to deny a high-level power, then it's pretty powerful. 100 points of extra guys each turn is a big deal. If it's no harder to stop than a low-level power, then it's only ever going to happen once in a blue moon.

 paqman wrote:
The rule book part seems to be big, but if they included Escalation and Stronghold content in there, I guess its going to count for an important part of the book.

Still doesn't excuse it for being a 200 page novel to play a game.

I mean, I'm no game-ologist or anything, but I'm fairly certain 40k has a lot of room for excess fat to be cut and simplified.

slaede wrote:

Relatively few armies are going to be able to muster the warp charge necessary to cast those Malefic powers assuming you need three 4+ rolls to cast many of them if I was told correctly. IG, CSM, GK, Daemons and Eldar are the only armies with a realistic chance. Hell, IG would need two ML2 Primaris Psykers and an ML1 to be guaranteed the 6 dice necessary to cast a warp charge 3 power, and 6 dice is no guarantee.

What about one army....

1) Take an unbound list containing loads of Tzeentch heralds upgraded to ML3.
2) Replace any rolls of Dark Flame / Infernal Gaze with Summoning.
3) Use your massive pool of warp charge to stack Cursed Earth and protect your units with rerollable 2++, while you summon various Daemons.
4) Sacrifice any Horrors summoned into more ML3 Heralds
5) Ruin everything with free Flamers and Greater Daemons.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
People seem to be assuming that only ML 3 Psykers can cast Level 3 powers. I don't see any reason why that would be the case. More likely, you can push any number of dice you like through a psyker and ML only affects the number of powers they have and the number of dice they add to the pool.

Hum, that's a good point. Don't know if they kept the rule regarding that. Well, then it becomes even cheaper to. Well, without rewards (looks like only summoned Heralds come with those), Bloodthirsters become a viable choice for Possession. Hm... I hoope they remember to add rules about summoned psykers - do they roll for powers?

 Sigvatr wrote:
Necrons had no BB in 6th too.

I know but after the bro-fist with the BA story, I held out hope.

 Blacksails wrote:

 paqman wrote:
The rule book part seems to be big, but if they included Escalation and Stronghold content in there, I guess its going to count for an important part of the book.

Still doesn't excuse it for being a 200 page novel to play a game.

I mean, I'm no game-ologist or anything, but I'm fairly certain 40k has a lot of room for excess fat to be cut and simplified.

75 pages of pictures, 50 pages of tables, the rest is rules.


</snark>


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 buddha wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Necrons had no BB in 6th too.

I know but after the bro-fist with the BA story, I held out hope.

That was always less of a "bro-fist" than the internet made it out to be.

 xttz wrote:

slaede wrote:

Relatively few armies are going to be able to muster the warp charge necessary to cast those Malefic powers assuming you need three 4+ rolls to cast many of them if I was told correctly. IG, CSM, GK, Daemons and Eldar are the only armies with a realistic chance. Hell, IG would need two ML2 Primaris Psykers and an ML1 to be guaranteed the 6 dice necessary to cast a warp charge 3 power, and 6 dice is no guarantee.

What about one army....

1) Take an unbound list containing loads of Tzeentch heralds upgraded to ML3.
2) Replace any rolls of Dark Flame / Infernal Gaze with Summoning.
3) Use your massive pool of warp charge to stack Cursed Earth and protect your units with rerollable 2++, while you summon various Daemons.
4) Sacrifice any Horrors summoned into more ML3 Heralds
5) Ruin everything with free Flamers and Greater Daemons.

The only time you'll be seeing unbound armies is when someone like me wants to field all my Maulerfiends, Seeker Chariots, Soul Grinders, Forgefiends, Predators, etc... in a fun lulzy list. And I will tell you before I do it. All this crap about ten Riptides is not happening in tournaments, and anyone who brings that to a friendly pick up game has a tiny wenis.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
People seem to be assuming that only ML 3 Psykers can cast Level 3 powers. I don't see any reason why that would be the case. More likely, you can push any number of dice you like through a psyker and ML only affects the number of powers they have and the number of dice they add to the pool.

How good summoning will be very much depends on the Deny the Witch mechanics. If it's difficult to deny a high-level power, then it's pretty powerful. 100 points of extra guys each turn is a big deal. If it's no harder to stop than a low-level power, then it's only ever going to happen once in a blue moon.

Exactly. Seems like ML just adds to your dice pool. ML1 can still cast higher level powers as long as there's enough dice in the pool.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

 paqman wrote:
The rule book part seems to be big, but if they included Escalation and Stronghold content in there, I guess its going to count for an important part of the book.

Still doesn't excuse it for being a 200 page novel to play a game.

I mean, I'm no game-ologist or anything, but I'm fairly certain 40k has a lot of room for excess fat to be cut and simplified.

75 pages of pictures, 50 pages of tables, the rest is rules.


</snark>

You forgot the 25 pages on how to properly Forge a Narrative. Can't be doing it all willy-nilly.

 Vector Strike wrote:


Of course we'll be able to. For every die the enemy arm gets, the opponent get as many for DtW. They get 20+ dice to cast, we get 20+ dice to deny.

Ahh, missed that bit, thanks.

Currently you cannot take a ML2 power unless you're a ML2 psyker.

That might still be the case, and would be totally fitting since the example they used in WD was Ezekiel (who is a ML3 psyker).

 Blacksails wrote:

 paqman wrote:
The rule book part seems to be big, but if they included Escalation and Stronghold content in there, I guess its going to count for an important part of the book.

Still doesn't excuse it for being a 200 page novel to play a game.

I mean, I'm no game-ologist or anything, but I'm fairly certain 40k has a lot of room for excess fat to be cut and simplified.

Especially when we compare this with the small 5th edition book that came with AoBR which was very small.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
[
That was always less of a "bro-fist" than the internet made it out to be.

True. Bascially, BA were getting their ass kicked by Tyranids. Necrons showed up and attacked the bigger threat. They then slaughtered the BA and only very few escaped. Less bro-fist, more BA getting their emo butts kicked by badass killer robots.

Ifurita wrote:I guess unbound will finally let people run their genestealer cult lists.

Probably not. Unbound is still limited by the allies chart, so unless there have been changes to the out-in-the-cold Tyranids, no genestealer cults outside of Apoc.

Perfect Organism wrote:New psyker rules seem like a significant nerf to armies with lots of psykers, if that 4+ thing is correct. You need two or three dice to have a similar chance of casting a mastery level 1 power. Once you've got more than a couple of mastery levels in your army, they become less effective than they are now. Astra Militarum players are probably hit hardest by that.

Not sure how things are likely to go with builds that rely heavily on one power. On the one hand, it's simple enough to put plenty of dice into the one you want, but on the other it might also be easy enough to block it with Deny the Witch.

Looks like Malefic Daemonology is pretty much what people were afraid of. At least it doesn't force you to randomise the type of daemon you get.

Cursed Ground seems like it will be part of some nasty combos, thanks to stacking. Whether that means Daemon based deathstars are still viable depends to be seen. Will make Daemon Engines and Obliterators especially tough.

Sanctic Daemonology might offer counters to that kind of thing though, through debuffs to Daemon saves or something.

Psychic shooting attacks seem to still be terribly underwhelming. You effectively end up paying 25 points for something little more impressive than a combi-weapon.

I think we'll see a nerf in general to psyhic powers. Just the fact that it looks like any of them can be canceled by anyone is a nerf compared to DtW-free Blessings and such.
For builds relying on specific powers, I think you'll see what you sometimes see in the WHFB magic phase. You see lots of small powers getting cast to try to draw out dice. Your opponent (who generally has less dice than you do in WHFB) has to decide between letting stuff through just in case you cast an uber spell, or risking the uber spell and blocking the little stuff that adds up.

Anti-psychic things like Deny the Witch and Shadow in the Warp, not to mention Psychic Hoods, will be the big thing to watch though.

Cursed Ground is definitely one of the powers to watch for, and if you're playing Malefic Daemonlogy, I think makes for an interesting "draw dice" spell. It's WC 1, so can be cast with a single die. Does your opponent throw dice at it, or save some in case you try to summon a bunch of daemons? To me, that's an interesting choice. Maybe I'm just crazy though.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:So, cursed earth is basically here to ensure screamerstar stays the same, while dark flame and infernal gaze are stupidly underpowered ?
lol.

You get a chance to stop the power now, so that's more than you had with other things.

Eldarain wrote:Is the "Sacrifice" power the first time you can spawn a unit and make wargear choices mid-game?

If the Herald and his Portalglyph/Grimoire die could you then summon a new one with a replacement Portalglyph/Grimoire?

Strange Times.

Yeah, that's pretty strange. Skaven in WHFB can turn units into Clan Rats with any available options, but there are no points limits on that; just what models you have available. Their gear is also way less important than a Herald's wargear in 40k though.

 Blacksails wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

 paqman wrote:
The rule book part seems to be big, but if they included Escalation and Stronghold content in there, I guess its going to count for an important part of the book.

Still doesn't excuse it for being a 200 page novel to play a game.

I mean, I'm no game-ologist or anything, but I'm fairly certain 40k has a lot of room for excess fat to be cut and simplified.

75 pages of pictures, 50 pages of tables, the rest is rules.


</snark>

You forgot the 25 pages on how to properly Forge a Narrative. Can't be doing it all willy-nilly.

Who knows... there might be erratas in there to support the previous codexes due to radical changes in stat lines! ....

 paqman wrote:


Especially when we compare this with the small 5th edition book that came with AoBR which was very small.

Indeed.

Really, 7th is just the old Apoc rules rebranded as standard 40k.

Something about shark jumping.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
People seem to be assuming that only ML 3 Psykers can cast Level 3 powers. I don't see any reason why that would be the case. More likely, you can push any number of dice you like through a psyker and ML only affects the number of powers they have and the number of dice they add to the pool.

How good summoning will be very much depends on the Deny the Witch mechanics. If it's difficult to deny a high-level power, then it's pretty powerful. 100 points of extra guys each turn is a big deal. If it's no harder to stop than a low-level power, then it's only ever going to happen once in a blue moon.

Daemons summoning pink horrors to add extra dice to your psyker charge?

xttz wrote:



What about one army....

1) Take an unbound list containing loads of Tzeentch heralds upgraded to ML3.
2) Replace any rolls of Dark Flame / Infernal Gaze with Summoning.
3) Use your massive pool of warp charge to stack Cursed Earth and protect your units with rerollable 2++, while you summon various Daemons.
4) Sacrifice any Horrors summoned into more ML3 Heralds
5) Ruin everything with free Flamers and Greater Daemons.

But seriously I'm actually getting really REALLY excited about 7th Ed now. Having what will probably be my last game of 6th Ed tonight. Sad times. Just made a Biker Lord of Chaos with retinue too. Hopefully the Jink is the only change there.

slaede wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

 unmercifulconker wrote:
Really like those malefic powers, hopefully only chaos can get em. Perhaps its time to convert the all khorne army to word bearers.

To be honest I can't see anybody else using them that much. The primaris often influences who will field it but the question becomes... how many ML3+ psykers are there in the game? Daemons can get them easily, CSM can easily, Eldar can, and named characters of the SM (1 each) can get this. Besides that, I think the last one is brotherhood of psykers IG maybe? Out of the rules, you can't even use the primaris which means you have to roll a 1d6 until you get 1, 2, 3, or 4 as those are the only ones you can cast without having 3 charges. It buffs daemons? Of no use to anybody but a chaos force. 2 is crummy, 3 could be useful for popping tanks, and conjuration really only helps daemons as they can't join any other unit. The concept is to summon a horde, then conjure a herald to lead them afterall

Relatively few armies are going to be able to muster the warp charge necessary to cast those Malefic powers assuming you need three 4+ rolls to cast many of them if I was told correctly. IG, CSM, GK, Daemons and Eldar are the only armies with a realistic chance. Hell, IG would need two ML2 Primaris Psykers and an ML1 to be guaranteed the 6 dice necessary to cast a warp charge 3 power, and 6 dice is no guarantee.

Read the rules that are linked there. You can cast any of those powers even with a Mastery Level 1 Psyker. The amount of Warp Charge you generate is d6 plus the combined Mastery Level of all the Psykers in your list, which creates a pool of Power Dice which you roll. So a single Level 1 Psyker could potentially get off even those Warp Charge 3 powers.

 StarTrotter wrote:
Has the transport section been completely posted here? I got it from another site.

Please post.

 Chief Librarian Mephiston wrote:

Read the rules that are linked there. You can cast any of those powers even with a Mastery Level 1 Psyker. The amount of Warp Charge you generate is d6 plus the combined Mastery Level of all the Psykers in your list, which creates a pool of Power Dice which you roll. So a single Level 1 Psyker could potentially get off even those Warp Charge 3 powers.

Except that only a ML 3 psyker can take ML 3 powers in all likelihood.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
[
That was always less of a "bro-fist" than the internet made it out to be.

True. Bascially, BA were getting their ass kicked by Tyranids. Necrons showed up and attacked the bigger threat. They then slaughtered the BA and only very few escaped. Less bro-fist, more BA getting their emo butts kicked by badass killer robots.

A little backwards actually. BA and Crons were kicking each other's asses in and then Nids showed up and they stopped shooting at each other and shot the Nids instead. Once the Nids were all dead they both were so destroyed they parted ways.

Those are lies spread by the IoM. Fool!

Can someone post the transport links already

 Sigvatr wrote:
Those are lies spread by the IoM. Fool!

Can someone post the transport links already

I second that! I've tried searching for it but Google is giving me nothing. I guess they haven't crawled it yet or it's not labelled like I think it is.

Are any Tau players worried about their Hammerheads? We suddenly no longer have access to any jink saves of any sort and have to hide our tanks behind conventional buildings once more....the D-pod is only useful for devilfish now.


It sucks that while jink has improved to 4+ (3+ with D-pods), declaring to use it will mean you can only make snapshots next turn.

I guess this makes markerlight spam even more necessary to correct your BS.

 Sir Arun wrote:
Hahahah if the jink rumor turns out to be true, White Scars players who started a WS army just because of how good they were since September 13 took a high five. To the face. With a bat.

First, I had my all bike force since 5th (it's fun). But this is not a nerf... at all. +1 better cover save than before?! It's always massive amounts of small fire or big blasts from afar that mess up bikes. Only if you can't assault after a jink will this nerf bike lists enough to matter... or if turbo doesn't improve it by 1. But savy Black Knights and WS players are going to get to their targets better than before.

I want to know if intervening models went down to a +4 too. If they did, bikes are way better than ever.