Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Sir Arun wrote:
Are any Tau players worried about their Hammerheads? We suddenly no longer have access to any jink saves of any sort and have to hide our tanks behind conventional buildings once more....the D-pod is only useful for devilfish now.


It sucks that while jink has improved to 4+ (3+ with D-pods), declaring to use it will mean you can only make snapshots next turn.

I guess this makes markerlight spam even more necessary to correct your BS.

At least we got ML for target correction. Eldar will need to rely more on Divination (as if it was possible), SM's Land Speeders are a bit screwed (unless you're one of those not vanilla flavoured SMs, or Loth/Mantis Warriors).

Grab Sensor Spines and Disruption Pods. Enter difficult terrain. 4+ cover and shoot as normal
(I'd like to see vehicles firing weapons independently and with lighter rules regarding movement and shooting, but I won't expect to see those)

What's this about transports then? And Jink saves? Come on... Show us something :]

 Vector Strike wrote:


Eldar will need to rely more on Divination (as if it was possible), SM's Land Speeders are a bit screwed (unless you're one of those not vanilla flavoured SMs, or Loth/Mantis Warriors).

Seems like Dark Eldar craft and bikes are rather hosed as well.

 Sigvatr wrote:
http://imgur.com/Fn7LDcS

Ah, that got posted earlier when the screen caps of today's video went up.

I'm less excited now. :(

The screenshots for the transports are in the Jervis video. Basically they are considered the same part of the force org chart as the unit for which they were purchased.

Without knowing any other rules concerning vehicles, Wave Serpents, Rhinos, Drop Pods and Land Raiders purchased for troops are considered troops and therefore have Objective Secured in a Battle Forged list.

If that means scoring transports are back, that's a HUGE step back from 6th,

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:


Eldar will need to rely more on Divination (as if it was possible), SM's Land Speeders are a bit screwed (unless you're one of those not vanilla flavoured SMs, or Loth/Mantis Warriors).

Seems like Dark Eldar craft and bikes are rather hosed as well.

Yes, but as they usually don't possess any help for shooting, I didn't address those. Necrons too have skimmers, but they ahve some twin-linked stuff
Now, with Eldar/DE still as BBs, Raiders/boats with re-rolling even with jink will be cruel.

slaede wrote:
Basically they are considered the same part of the force org chart as the unit for which they were purchased.

Is this not true now?

slaede wrote:
The screenshots for the transports are in the Jervis video. Basically they are considered the same part of the force org chart as the unit for which they were purchased.

Without knowing any other rules concerning vehicles, Wave Serpents, Rhinos, Drop Pods and Land Raiders purchased for troops are considered troops and therefore have Objective Secured in a Battle Forged list.

That is unless the vehicle rules still say they aren't scoring. We do have non-scoring Troops options in the game after all.

slaede wrote:
The screenshots for the transports are in the Jervis video. Basically they are considered the same part of the force org chart as the unit for which they were purchased.

Without knowing any other rules concerning vehicles, Wave Serpents, Rhinos, Drop Pods and Land Raiders purchased for troops are considered troops and therefore have Objective Secured in a Battle Forged list.

They already are now, so DT for heavy support units give up extra VP's in big guns and are scoring in big guns. The troop DT's were never allowed to score in 6th.

 xttz wrote:

slaede wrote:

Relatively few armies are going to be able to muster the warp charge necessary to cast those Malefic powers assuming you need three 4+ rolls to cast many of them if I was told correctly. IG, CSM, GK, Daemons and Eldar are the only armies with a realistic chance. Hell, IG would need two ML2 Primaris Psykers and an ML1 to be guaranteed the 6 dice necessary to cast a warp charge 3 power, and 6 dice is no guarantee.

What about one army....

1) Take an unbound list containing loads of Tzeentch heralds upgraded to ML3.
2) Replace any rolls of Dark Flame / Infernal Gaze with Summoning.
3) Use your massive pool of warp charge to stack Cursed Earth and protect your units with rerollable 2++, while you summon various Daemons.
4) Sacrifice any Horrors summoned into more ML3 Heralds
5) Ruin everything with free Flamers and Greater Daemons.

Well, for a start, you can only get a ML 2 Herald with 30 points of upgrades...

A ML 2 Herald gives you two casting dice. That's enough for one level one power on average. You probably need about seven or eight warp charges just to keep summoning one extra unit a turn. Investing around 1,000 points in your daemon generator, you start with the ability to summon maybe three or four units a turn and it seems very likely that at least one of those castings is going to be denied even by an enemy who didn't bring psychic defences. So, you get around 25% return on your investment per turn at best and if you want to get more heralds it becomes less efficient, because you only get 70 points of herald instead of 90 points of pink horrors per summoning and you have to sacrifice a model for it. That brings your returns down to maybe 15-20% per turn.

Summoning 100 points of new models has a pretty similar effect to killing 100 points of enemy models. So any build which can kill 150-200 points more of the enemy each turn per 1,000 points invested than your daemon factory is more efficient. Since the daemon factory has virtually no killing power, that translates to pretty much being able to kill 200 points of the enemy per turn, per 1,000 points. That's fairly good, but any decent shooting unit will do better.

So I just got off the phone with my GW rep.
A small correction on the Psychic Powers. The defending player must roll a number of sucesses equal to the sucesses rolled by the casting player. So if I cast a level 1 power with three sucesses my opponet needs three sucesses to cancel it.
Also this has not been posted but I think it might make a few people happy. Strength D has changed.
D weapons:
1 nothing
2-5 D3 hull points/wounds
6 crazy
However Strength D no longer ignores cover/ Invuls

welp, BT LRCs just got a whole lot better

fryguy49 wrote:
Also this has not been posted but I think it might make a few people happy. Strength D has changed.
D weapons:
1 nothing
2-5 D3 hull points/wounds
6 crazy
However Strength D no longer ignores cover/ Invuls

but that was the main reason to pick them against deathstars... still a good weapon.

 Vector Strike wrote:

 DarkTraveler777 wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:


Eldar will need to rely more on Divination (as if it was possible), SM's Land Speeders are a bit screwed (unless you're one of those not vanilla flavoured SMs, or Loth/Mantis Warriors).

Seems like Dark Eldar craft and bikes are rather hosed as well.

Yes, but as they usually don't possess any help for shooting, I didn't address those. Necrons too have skimmers, but they ahve some twin-linked stuff
Now, with Eldar/DE still as BBs, Raiders/boats with re-rolling even with jink will be cruel.

Not criticizing your omission, just pointing out that DE will take it on the chin with this change to jink, or be forced to always run Eldar allies, which I guess is what most people do anyway. Either way, I don't like it.

fryguy49 wrote:
So I just got off the phone with my GW rep.
A small correction on the Psychic Powers. The defending player must roll a number of sucesses equal to the sucesses rolled by the casting player. So if I cast a level 1 power with three sucesses my opponet needs three sucesses to cancel it.
Also this has not been posted but I think it might make a few people happy. Strength D has changed.
D weapons:
1 nothing
2-5 D3 hull points/wounds
6 crazy
However Strength D no longer ignores cover/ Invuls

Well that invalidates D weapon use against deathstars, which was the only counter to deathstars. Blegh

 ClockworkZion wrote:

slaede wrote:
The screenshots for the transports are in the Jervis video. Basically they are considered the same part of the force org chart as the unit for which they were purchased.

Without knowing any other rules concerning vehicles, Wave Serpents, Rhinos, Drop Pods and Land Raiders purchased for troops are considered troops and therefore have Objective Secured in a Battle Forged list.

That is unless the vehicle rules still say they aren't scoring. We do have non-scoring Troops options in the game after all.

Yes indeed. However, rumors from multiple sources over the weekend stated that absolutely everything scores now, which makes sense in the context ot Objective Secured being the incentive to actually take more than min Troops. We will have to see if vehicles are exempted from scoring.

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Samurai_Eduh wrote:

Mr.Church13 wrote:
$85 for the rules and you have to buy an additional card pack! And they more than likely plan to invalidate the rules every two years now so what is wrong with GW? It's like they're trying to throw the company under the train on purpose now.

My psychic cards are predicting another 25% fall very soon for the big Kirby machine.

I don't see the issue. It only works out o $50 a year. Xbox LIVE costs more than that. Why are people making such a huge deal about this?

Because for some people, it's either/or, not both. Look I know the "feth you, I got mine Jack" attitude is popular around here, but it's not a difficult concept to grasp; people who don't have a lot of disposable income are naturally going to resent an additional unnecessary expense being imposed. It means they have to give up something else, and if they can only afford to keep up one hobby and chose 40K, it means they have to eat into their own hobby budget just to keep using the models they already have.

Christ I have an Autism spectrum disorder and I seem to have more empathy and basic consideration for other people's circumstances than a lot of folk here.

If you can't spare $100 for a book you will use for a couple of years, you are really in the wrong hobby. I take it you haven't bought any new units recently then? because if you bought more than one, you've likely already spent more than the cost of the rulebook. Units you might not even use every game, unlike the rulebook.

It's telling you assume I'm discussing my own situation, rather than just expressing solidarity with people who have things worse off than me. I am referring to my own situation as it happens though, and while I'd probably have a more productive and entertaining time headbutting my livingroom wall, I'll try and explain why GW cutting the length of their editions in half(and I'm aware it's an assumption they'll continue like this going forwards, but there's little reason to assume anything else; we know they're not doing this to "fix" the game in the eyes of the grognardian portion of their fanbase, and if the last year of releases has taught us anything about GW it's that they'll do whatever they can get away with - if enough people buy the new edition to make up for the people that walk away, we'll be down to two years per-edition from now on, count on it) substantially reduces the value proposition GW are offering; I do buy units actually, on a pretty regular schedule. In fact, on an extremely regular schedule, because I have to carefully budget every penny of disposable income I spend(a situation which means GW's relative value has already declined drastically in recent years - I can't plan and budget for stuff if I don't know it exists until a couple of weeks before it goes on sale).

I have a rough plan of the models I plan to buy and a fixed total budget for the next eighteen months, and so now I have a choice; stop my current projects altogether for four of those months, or stop playing 40K at the local club(which will undoubtedly move to 7th right away), which is functionally equivalent to not playing at all since my old "round a mate's" gaming group are scattered all over the place due to work or family commitments. Realistically that means I have to stop my projects for the four months, because the club isn't going to magically go back to 6th Edition in the future, so I have to find the money for the new rules at some stage if I want to own a legal copy. On a four-year cycle, I have to spend the hobby budget of 4 months out of 48 on core rules, usually more like 6 months when you take a codex into account, so total 6 out of 48. On a two year cycle, well the math isn't hard, now it's 6 out of 24, meaning I'm now spending 25% of my hobby budget on core rules compared to 12.5% before.

Now, with it laid out nice and easy like for you, can you understand why the price of Xbox live, or of a hypothetical skiing trip, or of running a private 'plane have absolutely zero relevance?

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

fryguy49 wrote:
So I just got off the phone with my GW rep.
A small correction on the Psychic Powers. The defending player must roll a number of sucesses equal to the sucesses rolled by the casting player. So if I cast a level 1 power with three sucesses my opponet needs three sucesses to cancel it.
Also this has not been posted but I think it might make a few people happy. Strength D has changed.
D weapons:
1 nothing
2-5 D3 hull points/wounds
6 crazy
However Strength D no longer ignores cover/ Invuls

Well that invalidates D weapon use against deathstars, which was the only counter to deathstars. Blegh

With luck we'll be seeing better/easier to get into list options to counter deathstars instead.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:


Well that invalidates D weapon use against deathstars, which was the only counter to deathstars. Blegh

D-weapons being a counter to everything was worse than death stars.

Don't lament the going away of the overpowered absurdity of D-weapons; lament the current issues with death stars that haven't been addressed.

Maybe invulns are capped at a 3+. It'd be an easy enough fix to quite a few issues.

 Vector Strike wrote:

fryguy49 wrote:
Also this has not been posted but I think it might make a few people happy. Strength D has changed.
D weapons:
1 nothing
2-5 D3 hull points/wounds
6 crazy
However Strength D no longer ignores cover/ Invuls

but that was the main reason to pick them against deathstars... still a good weapon.

The problem is going to be that info from each sales rep is of course filtered through the memory of that person

The version told to me neglected to mention the D3 hull points/woulnds, but said that on a 2-5 you got cover and invuln. saves. 6 still very bad for you.

 Blacksails wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:


Well that invalidates D weapon use against deathstars, which was the only counter to deathstars. Blegh

D-weapons being a counter to everything was worse than death stars.

Don't lament the going away of the overpowered absurdity of D-weapons; lament the current issues with death stars that haven't been addressed.

D was rare in normal games, outside of escalation the only D around was recently just Knight chainswords

I suspect the psychic phase will help counter deathstars though and their blessing madness

Most deathstars did rely on psyker powers right?

 WrentheFaceless wrote:


D was rare in normal games, outside of escalation the only D around was recently just Knight chainswords

I suspect the psychic phase will help counter deathstars though and their blessing madness

Yes, but the point is that now there is no 'Escalation', there's just Apoc-I mean, 40k.

The answer to death stars isn't another piece of broken rules, its to fix what makes them broken in the first place.

 agnosto wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
Man, that's a whole lot of level 3 psychic powers.

And if the way the powers are used is correct then you need to roll 3+ dice with a 4 or better on each of them to cast the powers. I see lots of dice being thrown to get these off.

And my Tau will be able to do nothing about this stuff....gee, I'm facing an army with 20 dice in the psychic phase and I have a maximum of 6...wow.

Don't worry, The Farsight special system will probably give you infinite dispel dice, and the ability to shoot the spell back at the caster. GW is nothing if not a true friend to Tau.

tag8833 wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
Man, that's a whole lot of level 3 psychic powers.

And if the way the powers are used is correct then you need to roll 3+ dice with a 4 or better on each of them to cast the powers. I see lots of dice being thrown to get these off.

And my Tau will be able to do nothing about this stuff....gee, I'm facing an army with 20 dice in the psychic phase and I have a maximum of 6...wow.

Don't worry, The Farsight special system will probably give you infinite dispel dice, and the ability to shoot the spell back at the caster. GW is nothing if not a true friend to Tau.

Lel.
Man, imagine how massive the new FAQs will be. Need to correct so many stuff

I actually like the new Jinx rules, IMO its a good example of a trade-off that really makes you think tactically, not just nerfs/buffs for the sake of it like most of GW's rule changes. The big question though is if you still get to assault after a jinx.

But even then, certain armies like Ravenwing will be all but invincible against weapons that don't ignore cover...

 ClockworkZion wrote:

That is unless the vehicle rules still say they aren't scoring. We do have non-scoring Troops options in the game after all.

With Knights scoring, it wouldn't be too surprising to see the 'no vehicles' restriction removed from the scoring unit rules.

tag8833 wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
Man, that's a whole lot of level 3 psychic powers.

And if the way the powers are used is correct then you need to roll 3+ dice with a 4 or better on each of them to cast the powers. I see lots of dice being thrown to get these off.

And my Tau will be able to do nothing about this stuff....gee, I'm facing an army with 20 dice in the psychic phase and I have a maximum of 6...wow.

Don't worry, The Farsight special system will probably give you infinite dispel dice, and the ability to shoot the spell back at the caster. GW is nothing if not a true friend to Tau.

This edition....... I played Tau in 5th it wasn't so easy then...