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 insaniak wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

That is unless the vehicle rules still say they aren't scoring. We do have non-scoring Troops options in the game after all.

With Knights scoring, it wouldn't be too surprising to see the 'no vehicles' restriction removed from the scoring unit rules.

Knights have a rule that specifically makes them scoring, I think that doesn't really prove anything they're doing with the core rules though. I mean by that logic because Sisters have a 6++ on their tanks everyone will get a 6++ on their tanks.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
I actually like the new Jinx rules, IMO its a good example of a trade-off that really makes you think tactically, not just nerfs/buffs for the sake of it like most of GW's rule changes. The big question though is if you still get to assault after a jinx.

But even then, certain armies like Ravenwing will be all but invincible against weapons that don't ignore cover...

Anybody know how this will affect DE?

 StarTrotter wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
I actually like the new Jinx rules, IMO its a good example of a trade-off that really makes you think tactically, not just nerfs/buffs for the sake of it like most of GW's rule changes. The big question though is if you still get to assault after a jinx.

But even then, certain armies like Ravenwing will be all but invincible against weapons that don't ignore cover...

Anybody know how this will affect DE?

Flickerfields go from good to quite bad back to quite good?

Trasvi wrote:
From what I'm hearing on the video there are actually 3 types of forces:

Warforged - Following the normal Force Org Chart. which still seems to be as silly as the current Force Org Chart, and you get bonuses for this.
Normal - Same faction, but no force org limits
Unbound - doesn't even need to be the same faction. Nids allied with Grey Knights and Chaos Daemons.

Is that what other people are hearing also?

I believe what I read was an unbound army is whatever models you got but still have to adhere to the allies matrix

What people don't seem to really get is that the whole being able to summon X demons that have a ML it is exponential.

For that reason, I kind of don't see Heralds getting the ability to summon additional demons as it get's a little broken. It will probably only be available to Demon Princes and Greater Demons, but then it says in the chart that Brotherhood of Psykers can get it so who knows now.

Anyway with decent rolling you can actually put 500 models on the board for free if Heralds have access to Malefic and can summon so I doubt you'll be able to get it.

 Eldarain wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
I actually like the new Jinx rules, IMO its a good example of a trade-off that really makes you think tactically, not just nerfs/buffs for the sake of it like most of GW's rule changes. The big question though is if you still get to assault after a jinx.

But even then, certain armies like Ravenwing will be all but invincible against weapons that don't ignore cover...

Anybody know how this will affect DE?

Flickerfields go from good to quite bad back to quite good?

That and Reavers just became scary good since their bladevanes/cluster caltrops don't depend on BS, so snap shooting doesn't affect them.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
I actually like the new Jinx rules, IMO its a good example of a trade-off that really makes you think tactically, not just nerfs/buffs for the sake of it like most of GW's rule changes. The big question though is if you still get to assault after a jinx.

But even then, certain armies like Ravenwing will be all but invincible against weapons that don't ignore cover...

Anybody know how this will affect DE?

Flickerfields go from good to quite bad back to quite good?

That and Reavers just became scary good since their bladevanes/cluster caltrops don't depend on BS, so snap shooting doesn't affect them.

They were already "scary good" with how their turbo-boosting worked. They just got even better now.

Oh wow, if elder and tau can't be battle brothers that's huge! I likey!

 agnosto wrote:

barko wrote:
How many 6+ do i need to roll in order to deny a level 3 power. I know they need three 4+ rolls to get the power of does that make me roll three 6+ to deny it? Do I just need one 6+ to deny the power? I play Necrons, Do my tomb spiders need to roll their special denial roll from the pool or is it separate, as far as that goes do they need a 6+ now or still the 4+ they had before? I know other armies have similar rules in them so I think we can see some FAQ action from day one, or at least I hope we do.

And how will psychic hoods work with all of this?

Honestly, they're so trivialized now I forget they exist half the time.

Ragnar69 wrote:
"I'm taking only Wyrdvane Psikers and drown eveyrone in Bloodthirtherrs yadda yadda sky is falling" ;-)
I think I like those powers. They are fluffy and not OP. I woldn't take them with loyalists, but for Traitor guard they look nifty.
I can already hear the screams "cash grab! You need the demons dex!" But personally I think it would have been a bad idea to include all demons stats/rules in the BRB.
Of course I'm not happy shelling out a hundred bucks for a new book, but I realy (want to) believe that 7th will be better than 6th and that was my preferred edition by far.

I take 4 heralds who spawn 40 horrors each turn, each with 2D6 s5 shots and are extra scoringy. You were saying?

Hollismason wrote:
What people don't seem to really get is that the whole being able to summon X demons that have a ML it is exponential.

For that reason, I kind of don't see Heralds getting the ability to summon additional demons as it get's a little broken. It will probably only be available to Demon Princes and Greater Demons, but then it says in the chart that Brotherhood of Psykers can get it so who knows now.

Anyway with decent rolling you can actually put 500 models on the board for free if Heralds have access to Malefic and can summon so I doubt you'll be able to get it.

dunno... you need a 4+ per WC to cast the power. 6 dice are necessary to get it without much problem. that means each summoning requires 2 full ML3 models to add up, or 3 ML 2 models (if they can cast). Spending so many dice with summon hinder your buffing/malediction/witchfire potential. It's quite hard, if not impossible, to get 500 models by these means.

Suppose you start with 5 Heralds of Tzeentch as HQs, all ML3. It's D6+15 without any other psykers in your army. Average 18 WCs. spending 1/3 of your WCs for summoning could be useful, but all those buffs/curses/witchfires now have only 12 dice to be cast with. With Slaanesh/Nurgle it's even worse (max ML 2). Possession falls on the same situation as Summoning.

The Sacrifice power, used to bring a new Herald, is only ML1. Now that one is quite interesting. 2-3 dice is suffice (average) to bring another IC with 30p shenanigans (so many more rolls to make!).

edit: forgot about new DtW. You can try to summon models, but your enemy has psychic/technological means to stop such rifts in the Warp!

Anyway, there isn't any unit I know of unable to choose any psychic power within its permitted tables, as long it possess sufficient MLs. I doubt they'd put such restraint now.

 Ravenous D wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
"I'm taking only Wyrdvane Psikers and drown eveyrone in Bloodthirtherrs yadda yadda sky is falling" ;-)
I think I like those powers. They are fluffy and not OP. I woldn't take them with loyalists, but for Traitor guard they look nifty.
I can already hear the screams "cash grab! You need the demons dex!" But personally I think it would have been a bad idea to include all demons stats/rules in the BRB.
Of course I'm not happy shelling out a hundred bucks for a new book, but I realy (want to) believe that 7th will be better than 6th and that was my preferred edition by far.

I take 4 heralds who spawn 40 horrors a turn each with 2D6 s5 shots and are scoring. You were saying?

Take 4 Rune Priests and summon the "Spirits of Fenris"?

 Ravenous D wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
"I'm taking only Wyrdvane Psikers and drown eveyrone in Bloodthirtherrs yadda yadda sky is falling" ;-)
I think I like those powers. They are fluffy and not OP. I woldn't take them with loyalists, but for Traitor guard they look nifty.
I can already hear the screams "cash grab! You need the demons dex!" But personally I think it would have been a bad idea to include all demons stats/rules in the BRB.
Of course I'm not happy shelling out a hundred bucks for a new book, but I realy (want to) believe that 7th will be better than 6th and that was my preferred edition by far.

I take 4 heralds who spawn 40 horrors each turn, each with 2D6 s5 shots and are extra scoringy. You were saying?

Why would you say that? Just why? I was eyeing up Tzeentch Daemons as a possible army, but now that makes them broken, what with the Screamerstar as well.

 Ravenous D wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
"I'm taking only Wyrdvane Psikers and drown eveyrone in Bloodthirtherrs yadda yadda sky is falling" ;-)
I think I like those powers. They are fluffy and not OP. I woldn't take them with loyalists, but for Traitor guard they look nifty.
I can already hear the screams "cash grab! You need the demons dex!" But personally I think it would have been a bad idea to include all demons stats/rules in the BRB.
Of course I'm not happy shelling out a hundred bucks for a new book, but I realy (want to) believe that 7th will be better than 6th and that was my preferred edition by far.

I take 4 heralds who spawn 40 horrors each turn, each with 2D6 s5 shots and are extra scoringy. You were saying?

Well your opponent gets as many dice as you get to deny it. So might not be too bad

 Eldarain wrote:

 StarTrotter wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
I actually like the new Jinx rules, IMO its a good example of a trade-off that really makes you think tactically, not just nerfs/buffs for the sake of it like most of GW's rule changes. The big question though is if you still get to assault after a jinx.

But even then, certain armies like Ravenwing will be all but invincible against weapons that don't ignore cover...

Anybody know how this will affect DE?

Flickerfields go from good to quite bad back to quite good?

Quite bad is a tad bit completely mistaken. Too much ignoring cover saves out there to not take them

Puscifer wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
"I'm taking only Wyrdvane Psikers and drown eveyrone in Bloodthirtherrs yadda yadda sky is falling" ;-)
I think I like those powers. They are fluffy and not OP. I woldn't take them with loyalists, but for Traitor guard they look nifty.
I can already hear the screams "cash grab! You need the demons dex!" But personally I think it would have been a bad idea to include all demons stats/rules in the BRB.
Of course I'm not happy shelling out a hundred bucks for a new book, but I realy (want to) believe that 7th will be better than 6th and that was my preferred edition by far.

I take 4 heralds who spawn 40 horrors each turn, each with 2D6 s5 shots and are extra scoringy. You were saying?

Why would you say that? Just why? I was eyeing up Tzeentch Daemons as a possible army, but now that makes them broken, what with the Screamerstar as well.

Take that WITH the Screamerstar and the Portal for maximum Daemon-Rickrolling action.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Knights have a rule that specifically makes them scoring, I think that doesn't really prove anything they're doing with the core rules though. I mean by that logic because Sisters have a 6++ on their tanks everyone will get a 6++ on their tanks.

I didn't say it was proof of anything. Just a suggestion that GW aren't completely opposed to the idea of scoring vehicles, and so with unbound allowing players to create all-vehicle armies it wouldn't be surprising of it it's carried across to other armies.

 insaniak wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Knights have a rule that specifically makes them scoring, I think that doesn't really prove anything they're doing with the core rules though. I mean by that logic because Sisters have a 6++ on their tanks everyone will get a 6++ on their tanks.

I didn't say it was proof of anything. Just a suggestion that GW aren't completely opposed to the idea of scoring vehicles, and so with unbound allowing players to create all-vehicle armies it wouldn't be surprising of it it's carried across to other armies.

I get what you're saying, I just don't think because they did it for that army that it's going to apply to every army. I was just being fairly snarky about the point is all.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
"I'm taking only Wyrdvane Psikers and drown eveyrone in Bloodthirtherrs yadda yadda sky is falling" ;-)
I think I like those powers. They are fluffy and not OP. I woldn't take them with loyalists, but for Traitor guard they look nifty.
I can already hear the screams "cash grab! You need the demons dex!" But personally I think it would have been a bad idea to include all demons stats/rules in the BRB.
Of course I'm not happy shelling out a hundred bucks for a new book, but I realy (want to) believe that 7th will be better than 6th and that was my preferred edition by far.

I take 4 heralds who spawn 40 horrors each turn, each with 2D6 s5 shots and are extra scoringy. You were saying?

Well your opponent gets as many dice as you get to deny it. So might not be too bad

Gets as many dice, but with 1/3 the chance of each dice being a success, at least if they don't have Psykers of their own. Stopping one critical power will be straightforward, but shutting down Psykers completely won't be all that easy.

 azreal13 wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
"I'm taking only Wyrdvane Psikers and drown eveyrone in Bloodthirtherrs yadda yadda sky is falling" ;-)
I think I like those powers. They are fluffy and not OP. I woldn't take them with loyalists, but for Traitor guard they look nifty.
I can already hear the screams "cash grab! You need the demons dex!" But personally I think it would have been a bad idea to include all demons stats/rules in the BRB.
Of course I'm not happy shelling out a hundred bucks for a new book, but I realy (want to) believe that 7th will be better than 6th and that was my preferred edition by far.

I take 4 heralds who spawn 40 horrors each turn, each with 2D6 s5 shots and are extra scoringy. You were saying?

Well your opponent gets as many dice as you get to deny it. So might not be too bad

Gets as many dice, but with 1/3 the chance of each dice being a success, at least if they don't have Psykers of their own. Stopping one critical power will be straightforward, but shutting down Psykers completely won't be all that easy.

True but its better than praying for a 6 once each and every power that goes off. And from the supposed rules, it looks like getting the powers off will be more difficult as well. And we have yet to see the new Perils rules

 Ravenous D wrote:
I take 4 heralds who spawn 40 horrors each turn, each with 2D6 s5 shots and are extra scoringy. You were saying?

Except it's unlikely to be even half that many horrors. 4 level 3 Heralds is 12 warp charges. Add three or four for your basic charges and you get enough for two semi-reliable castings of a level 3 power. That's before psychic defences come into play.

As for using it for exponential returns, killing the enemy gives exponential returns too. Each time you kill an enemy who could have killed you, you reduce the enemy forces and reduce your own casualties, meaning you are killing more than you would otherwise next turn.

Puscifer wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
"I'm taking only Wyrdvane Psikers and drown eveyrone in Bloodthirtherrs yadda yadda sky is falling" ;-)
I think I like those powers. They are fluffy and not OP. I woldn't take them with loyalists, but for Traitor guard they look nifty.
I can already hear the screams "cash grab! You need the demons dex!" But personally I think it would have been a bad idea to include all demons stats/rules in the BRB.
Of course I'm not happy shelling out a hundred bucks for a new book, but I realy (want to) believe that 7th will be better than 6th and that was my preferred edition by far.

I take 4 heralds who spawn 40 horrors each turn, each with 2D6 s5 shots and are extra scoringy. You were saying?

Why would you say that? Just why? I was eyeing up Tzeentch Daemons as a possible army, but now that makes them broken, what with the Screamerstar as well.

How about the Summon Warp Festival?
1. Fill your list with psykers: Fateweaver, 4 ML 3 Heralds, 6 Horrors units (let's keep their special rule for generating extra WC points out for now), 2 ML 3 Daemon Princes, 1 allied Ahriman, 1 allied unit of Thousand Sons. Complete with anything else you want. D6+33 Warp Charges
2. Spend points summoning more Horrors, Heralds and LoCs (use the last one with small Horrors units)
3. Profit

 Vector Strike wrote:

Puscifer wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
"I'm taking only Wyrdvane Psikers and drown eveyrone in Bloodthirtherrs yadda yadda sky is falling" ;-)
I think I like those powers. They are fluffy and not OP. I woldn't take them with loyalists, but for Traitor guard they look nifty.
I can already hear the screams "cash grab! You need the demons dex!" But personally I think it would have been a bad idea to include all demons stats/rules in the BRB.
Of course I'm not happy shelling out a hundred bucks for a new book, but I realy (want to) believe that 7th will be better than 6th and that was my preferred edition by far.

I take 4 heralds who spawn 40 horrors each turn, each with 2D6 s5 shots and are extra scoringy. You were saying?

Why would you say that? Just why? I was eyeing up Tzeentch Daemons as a possible army, but now that makes them broken, what with the Screamerstar as well.

How about the Summon Warp Festival?
1. Fill your list with psykers: Fateweaver, 4 ML 3 Heralds, 6 Horrors units (let's keep their special rule for generating extra WC points out for now), 2 ML 3 Daemon Princes, 1 allied Ahriman, 1 allied unit of Thousand Sons. Complete with anything else you want. D6+33 Warp Charges
2. Spend points summoning more Horrors, Heralds and LoCs (use the last one with small Horrors units)
3. Profit

Unless they get errata, Fateweaver and Horrors won't be able to use Daemonology. Currently, there is a rule for Conjurations that says any conjured unit is never scoring. Does that carry over is the question. And summoning an LOC is predicated on rolling the power.

So you could, theoretically at least, summon 80+ Horrors a turn?


Oh yeah, that seems fair. I guess GW thought the outrage against Daemons at the end of 7th Ed Fantasy was actually cheers of "More! More! More!".



Putting Malefic aside for a moment, the rest doesn't seem so bad... but I'm not buying another rulebook to replace one that isn't even two years old (not to mention Escalation and Stronpoint Assault).

 Vector Strike wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
What people don't seem to really get is that the whole being able to summon X demons that have a ML it is exponential.

For that reason, I kind of don't see Heralds getting the ability to summon additional demons as it get's a little broken. It will probably only be available to Demon Princes and Greater Demons, but then it says in the chart that Brotherhood of Psykers can get it so who knows now.

Anyway with decent rolling you can actually put 500 models on the board for free if Heralds have access to Malefic and can summon so I doubt you'll be able to get it.

dunno... you need a 4+ per WC to cast the power. 6 dice are necessary to get it without much problem. that means each summoning requires 2 full ML3 models to add up, or 3 ML 2 models (if they can cast). Spending so many dice with summon hinder your buffing/malediction/witchfire potential. It's quite hard, if not impossible, to get 500 models by these means.

Suppose you start with 5 Heralds of Tzeentch as HQs, all ML3. It's D6+15 without any other psykers in your army. Average 18 WCs. spending 1/3 of your WCs for summoning could be useful, but all those buffs/curses/witchfires now have only 12 dice to be cast with. With Slaanesh/Nurgle it's even worse (max ML 2). Possession falls on the same situation as Summoning.

The Sacrifice power, used to bring a new Herald, is only ML1. Now that one is quite interesting. 2-3 dice is suffice (average) to bring another IC with 30p shenanigans (so many more rolls to make!).

edit: forgot about new DtW. You can try to summon models, but your enemy has psychic/technological means to stop such rifts in the Warp!

Anyway, there isn't any unit I know of unable to choose any psychic power within its permitted tables, as long it possess sufficient MLs. I doubt they'd put such restraint now.

Actually the Summoned Herald can be Level 2, if Tzeentch, as they get 30 Points of Options. This is why I don't believe Heralds will have access to summoning spells because it just get's broken when Heralds summon Heralds that summon Heralds.

slaede wrote:
Unless they get errata, Fateweaver and Horrors won't be able to use Daemonology. Currently, there is a rule for Conjurations that says any conjured unit is never scoring. Does that carry over is the question. And summoning an LOC is predicated on rolling the power.

True... Well, forget about the Horrors. I can see Fatey getring Daemonology. With so many psykers, one or two is bound to get Possession
Heralds are the true start, though. Each summoned Herald (quite cheap to do) can bring so much stuff...

Hollismason wrote:


Actually the Summoned Herald can be Level 2, if Tzeentch, as they get 30 Points of Options. This is why I don't believe Heralds will have access to summoning spells because it just get's broken when Heralds summon Heralds that summon Heralds.

The summoned ones wouldn't necessarily get the power, but you could give yourself 2 WC per turn if even one of your psykers gets Sacrifice.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vector Strike wrote:

slaede wrote:
Unless they get errata, Fateweaver and Horrors won't be able to use Daemonology. Currently, there is a rule for Conjurations that says any conjured unit is never scoring. Does that carry over is the question. And summoning an LOC is predicated on rolling the power.

True... Well, forget about the Horrors. I can see Fatey getring Daemonology. With so many psykers, one or two is bound to get Possession
Heralds are the true start, though. Each summoned Herald (quite cheap to do) can bring so much stuff...

Edit: I take this back. You could indeed keep spamming Tzeralds with the Sacrifice power.

Well, looking forward to the new edition so much I'm sat up reading about it!!
Better go to bed if I am ever to wake up for work tomorrow. @_@

Double post? Something went wrong in the warp?

All this talk of spamming Psychic Powers to summon summons that summon summons. I'm really hoping for a WHFB-esque Perils chart. 2D6 roll to cripple your army.

Sounds like a narrative being forged by random rolls to me!

Maybe the "Good Guys" Demonology allows you to automatically cancel D6 spells a Turn, or force Army Wide instability tests.

 sydewynder wrote:
All this talk of spamming Psychic Powers to summon summons that summon summons. I'm really hoping for a WHFB-esque Perils chart. 2D6 roll to cripple your army.

Sounds like a narrative being forged by random rolls to me!

Maybe the "Good Guys" Demonology allows you to automatically cancel D6 spells a Turn, or force Army Wide instability tests.

Yeah, we haven't seen Sanctic yet.