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 Captain Avatar wrote:


They also need to roll a d6 before strafing or bombing runs with a roll of a "1" meaning they accidentally fire upon the closest friendly unit to the original target point.

All my fliers are British, does that mean they'll pass that test automatically?

 tetrisphreak wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
Is Sacrifice 1 or 3 Warp Charges, cause seriously the scans I've seen look like theres no way it's a 1.

It's 3

Have people actually read the book then? How is it 3 Warp Charges but a ML2 can cast it according to White Dwarf.

According to White Dwarf we know

It can be cast by Pink Horrors, who can summon Heralds who are a maximum Level of 2 if summoned, but according to the book Heralds can summon Pink Horrors which is Warp Charge 3.

So Mastery Level 2 can cast a Warp Charge 3 spell.

So we know

Mastery Level does not seem to affect what level of Psychic Power you can cast.... it's possible it affects it's success. and I think I know how it works.

If you cast a spell higher than your mastery level you get a modifier to cast it. That's the only explanation.

Also, pink horrors can apparently summon Blood thirsters.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Ragnar69 wrote:
If it had a metal or wooden box instead of cardboard I would seriously consider it...I just had to hide it from my wife

She'd find out. Then there would really be no time for peace...

OMFG! And here I thought I was all alone...

Allowing Eldar to summon a Demon might be a fun way to get the Avatar on the board.

 tetrisphreak wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:
Can anyone who has a copy of the new WD confirm the warp charge costs for Sacrifice and the other powers on the right side of the page? The only image I've seen is too blurry to be sure.

Summoning - 3
Cursed earth - 1
Dark flame - 1
Infernal gaze - 1
Sacrifice - 1
Incursion - 3
Possession - 3

Remember that any roll of doubles will perils on the Malefic powers unless the psyker is chaos (daemons I presume)

What ISNT clear yet from these descriptions is whether you need to deny 1 warp charge or all 3 to block the power. I think if it works like attack/defense dice a'la heroscape, then you'd subtract "blocks" from "successes" to see if the power goes off -- all while simultaneously checking for perils. But that last bit is speculation.

OK, looks like the tzeentch herald summoning factory might actually work. That's unpleasant.

Time to grind the numbers....

Not only does it work apparently Mastery Level isn't tied to what level of Spell you can actually cast, although I will go ahead and say a modifier applies to your success if the Warp Charge is higher than your level of Mastery. I'd bet anything on that rule.

Pink Horrors can summon Greater demons ? O_o

Not sure if confirmed or not but someone said that casting works like this.

You can roll as many dice as you want. You have to roll more 4+s than the warp charge of the power.

So warp charge two power requires two 4+s on your dice roll.

So a warp charge 3 power would require 6+ dice to reliably cast.

 azreal13 wrote:

 Captain Avatar wrote:


They also need to roll a d6 before strafing or bombing runs with a roll of a "1" meaning they accidentally fire upon the closest friendly unit to the original target point.

All my fliers are British, does that mean they'll pass that test automatically?

Only if your ground forces contain a character with the semaphore upgrade.

Actually, this is one of our flyer house rules and it can be nullified if there is a model equipped with a "targeter" , markerlight or some other fluffy reason for a friendly unit with los to the target point to act as spotters.
For the Eldar it is having a unit of swooping hawks with line of sight to the target point.

Of course only played these rules a couple of times before quitting the pure drudgery that has been 6th ed.

Am currently working on stream-lined 5th ed mod with another dakkite that is doing most of the authoring. We are trying to add the good of 6th(overwatch, precision shots and look out sir) and remove the worst of 5th(wound allocation, mission choices, deployment and points scoring). It also caps the foc at 1 hq, 2elite, 4 troops, 2 FA and 2 HS. This helps keep the model count within reason so the board doesn't become a parking lot.


If you can't tell, we're fans of having a simple core ruleset that allows the players to modify later to add complexity. These modifications can be home-brewed or GW supplements. Just having a simple core reduces the amount of arguing and makes for more enjoyable gameplay.

The mere act of changing one rule, this is in regards to the FMC and grounding checks, being a massive game changer for Tyranids is a testament to how bad that book is and doesn't make this rule change any worse.

Grounding check after every wound would be good, or kept the same... Why? I can shoot transports with anti-tank weaponry until I crack them and the shoot the meaty bits same shooting phase. Why then can I not rain a hailstorm of bullets at a FMC causing it to crash and then fire the appropriate anti-tank weaponry at it to kill it?

Unless we're missing something on how hard to hit works or how to acquire skyfire outside of "bring your own terrain" then this rules change makes FMC spam even more of a douche list. And that's the wrong way to go because then it's a case of telling every Nids player "no, thanks" when they ask for a game. And that's two people who don't get to play.

 TheKbob wrote:
The FMC test is dumb. It should change to every wound, maybe. For armies without AA, they are too strong to fight against.

There was a rumour that snapshots were being tweaked ... that woudl conceivably help non-AA armies against flyers somewhat.

So, if you take all powers from one discipline, you get to ADD the Primaris. Therefore, Level 1 Psykers would get two powers.

However, Chaos Sorcerors must take from their god discipline but no more than half. So we can't ever get the free extra power?

 Leth wrote:
Not sure if confirmed or not but someone said that casting works like this.

You can roll as many dice as you want. You have to roll more 4+s than the warp charge of the power.

So warp charge two power requires two 4+s on your dice roll.

So a warp charge 3 power would require 6+ dice to reliably cast.

Last I saw you could only cast powers with dice = to your mastery level + 1.

The amount of assumptions being made in this thread are getting silly based on the incomplete information we have.
First off while it is certainly reasonable to assume that Daemons have access to this new summoning lore we have absolutely no confirmation who can use it . We also don't have anything solid about how denying works either which is a huge part of how this system will work. No one is going to be spamming summons if only the Greater Daemons get access to them or Lvl 4 Eldrad is getting +4 to deny and deny works on blessings etc (then the psychic phase will be a write off for everyone).

Also while a single grounding test per turn might seem like a huge buff for flying MCs (i.e the Daemon Flying Circus is game breakingly good with this rule) we also don't know if the test is the same. It could well be a 6+ to stay flying now, or be modified by the strength of what hit you (unlikely but would make sense, its tougher to stay in the air if a missile hits you that if someone throws a rock at you). Similarly we don't know how firing at them works now, you may not need Skyfire to hit them or Skyfire may be thrown out like candy etc etc.

Everyone needs to realise that this edition is not a slight tweak to the rules by any stretch, it is not the 6.5 edition that was often suggested when rumours about a new edition started surfacing - this is looking like the changes will be as big as the 5th-6th changeover.

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
So, if you take all powers from one discipline, you get to ADD the Primaris. Therefore, Level 1 Psykers would get two powers.

However, Chaos Sorcerors must take from their god discipline but no more than half. So we can't ever get the free extra power?

I don't think this has been clariffied, if every psyker get's the primaris for free or if it takes over one of your allowed powers or it's the only way to access the primaris power etc.. have to wait I guess!

Maybe they are finally planning on letting more units get access to skyfire. I'm kinda tired of ally less Eldar folding like paper swans to one or two flyers.

 TheKbob wrote:
The mere act of changing one rule, this is in regards to the FMC and grounding checks, being a massive game changer for Tyranids is a testament to how bad that book is and doesn't make this rule change any worse.

"Minor" tweaks to small rules always have massive implications.

On the snap fire thing, wasn't there a rumor that if a unit didn't move it snap fired at BS 2?

Yeah, Warp Charge 3 powers are going to be very difficult to use.

Six dice gives you a 66% chance of success, but a 26% chance of getting perils of the warp. Seven dice gives you 77% chance, but a 33% chance of perils. Beyond seven dice it gets less efficient and more risky.

Warp charge 1 powers, on the other hand, are a piece of cake. With three or four dice it's almost a sure thing. Level 3 Tzeentch heralds can easily get that many dice for casting sacrifice each turn.

Start with ten ML 3 heralds. On average, four will know Sacrifice. All of them will easily be able to cast it every turn. Assume one gets denied and you still get three new ML 2 heralds, with a 67% chance at least one of them will know Sacrifice too. Next turn, you probably get four heralds, with a 77% chance at least one has sacrifice. By turn 4, you could easily have your ten original heralds and 19 ML 2 Heralds, giving you 68 warp charge dice for the next turn.

Turn five, you can summon ten five units of useful daemons.

Turn six, you move all of those deamons to assault the enemy or capture objectives.

So, for around 1,000 points in heralds, you end up with an extra 2,000 1,500 or so points of units at the end of the game. Equivalent to about a 25% 20% return on investment per turn. Of course, half those points are made up of heralds which are fairly useless apart from their ability to generate troops, so in practice you probably want to start spawning useful units a lot sooner, which means the investment is a bit less efficient.

The kicker is, you also get plenty of warp charge dice left over to cast witchfire powers, so your heralds are actually killing stuff as well as spawning more daemons. Throwing a couple of dice at a WC 1 witchfire gets you a 75% chance of firing it. About 70% of your ML 3 heralds and 56% of the ML ones will know one of the malefic witchfire powers. So you start off with about five witchfire shots and get maybe one extra per turn. Kill a couple of space marines with those and it's another 3% return on the investment. Kill twenty orks and it's another 12%.

It's not an all-powerful build by itself. There are other units which can kill stuff a lot quicker than this one can spawn them. Combined with screamerstar, however, I think it's pretty much unquestionably the strongest build that 40k has ever seen EDIT: unless there are things we haven't seen yet which nerf it, which seems quite possible with santic daemonology.

EDIT: messed up the math of the final summoning, by not taking potential failures and deny the witch into account.

 Lobukia wrote:
On the snap fire thing, wasn't there a rumor that if a unit didn't move it snap fired at BS 2?

And orks don't care. Lol.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
Yeah, Warp Charge 3 powers are going to be very difficult to use.

Six dice gives you a 66% chance of success, but a 26% chance of getting perils of the warp. Seven dice gives you 77% chance, but a 33% chance of perils. Beyond seven dice it gets less efficient and more risky.

Warp charge 1 powers, on the other hand, are a piece of cake. With three or four dice it's almost a sure thing. Level 3 Tzeentch heralds can easily get that many dice for casting sacrifice each turn.

Start with ten ML 3 heralds. On average, four will know Sacrifice. All of them will easily be able to cast it every turn. Assume one gets denied and you still get three new ML 2 heralds, with a 67% chance at least one of them will know Sacrifice too. Next turn, you probably get four heralds, with a 77% chance at least one has sacrifice. By turn 4, you could easily have your ten original heralds and 19 ML 2 Heralds, giving you 68 warp charge dice for the next turn.

Turn five, you can summon ten units of useful daemons.

Turn six, you move all of those deamons to assault the enemy or capture objectives.

So, for around 1,000 points in heralds, you end up with an extra 2,000 or so points of units at the end of the game. Equivalent to about a 25% return on investment per turn. Of course, half those points are made up of heralds which are fairly useless apart from their ability to generate troops, so in practice you probably want to start spawning useful units a lot sooner, which means the investment is a bit less efficient.

The kicker is, you also get plenty of warp charge dice left over to cast witchfire powers, so your heralds are actually killing stuff as well as spawning more daemons. Throwing a couple of dice at a WC 1 witchfire gets you a 75% chance of firing it. About 70% of your ML 3 heralds and 56% of the ML ones will know one of the malefic witchfire powers. So you start off with about five witchfire shots and get maybe one extra per turn. Kill a couple of space marines with those and it's another 3% return on the investment. Kill twenty orks and it's another 12%.

It's not an all-powerful build by itself. There are other units which can kill stuff a lot quicker than this one can spawn them. Combined with screamerstar, however, I think it's pretty much unquestionably the strongest build that 40k has ever seen.

Since we are speculating based only on what we currently know, it behooves me to remind you that conjured units may never be scoring as per the current BRB. So with nothing currently telling us any of that has changed, risking all those heralds to perils as well as not being able to claim objectives, I seriously doubt this will become a list in 7th.

Powerguy wrote:
First off while it is certainly reasonable to assume that Daemons have access to this new summoning lore we have absolutely no confirmation who can use it .

The White Dwarf excerpt posted some time ago said everyone except Tyranids could use it.

In the one that comes out May 17 the article on daemonology actually mentions summoning daemons by daemons as a tactic.

 tetrisphreak wrote:
In the one that comes out May 17 the article on daemonology actually mentions summoning daemons by daemons as a tactic.

Is this the first recorded case of a company using the cost of models as a balancing factor? I mean you do after all have to actually own a horde of daemons to actually summon them.

 insaniak wrote:

Powerguy wrote:
First off while it is certainly reasonable to assume that Daemons have access to this new summoning lore we have absolutely no confirmation who can use it .

The White Dwarf excerpt posted some time ago said everyone except Tyranids could use it.

Sorry that wasn't very clear, my point was that it says Daemons != Heralds. There are already heaps of instances of psykers within a codex having access to different disciplines, Eldar get Divination on Farseers but not on Warlocks so its definitely possible that only some of the Daemons get access to the lore.

It specifically mentions Pink Horrors being able to summon different types of Heralds.

 Sigvatr wrote:
Wow, so GW was serious about IoM willing to summon demons from the warp.

Like...wow. Really. That's just...wow. That's worse than the 5th Necron fluff. Holy crap. So, "forge your narrative" now means "feth everything, nobody wants that lore anyway!"? Well played GW.

The only way I can see the IoM summoning daemons is if it was a Radical Inquisitor using Chaos-based weaponry, in which would kind of make sense but more often or not the Inquisitor falls to Chaos.


But this....is just a travesty.

So wait, whats the new rumor regarding FMCs that people are crying cheese about? I can't find it...

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
So wait, whats the new rumor regarding FMCs that people are crying cheese about? I can't find it...

Only one grounding check at the end of the phase and only if wounded not just hit. And it was an entry in the newest White Dwarf so more than just a rumor.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
So wait, whats the new rumor regarding FMCs that people are crying cheese about? I can't find it...

Grounding tests being taken once per turn, rather than every time they get shot.

 insaniak wrote:

Powerguy wrote:
First off while it is certainly reasonable to assume that Daemons have access to this new summoning lore we have absolutely no confirmation who can use it .

The White Dwarf excerpt posted some time ago said everyone except Tyranids could use it.

As I recall, everyone gets access to demonology, but there are two tables. I assume that most/all armies will only get access to one of the two tables.

 insaniak wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
So wait, whats the new rumor regarding FMCs that people are crying cheese about? I can't find it...

Grounding tests being taken once per turn, rather than every time they get shot.

Oh damn. Can't say I don't approve of this. Don't really see how boltgun/flashlight fire was supposed to be enough to make a 7 ton Bloodthirster/Hive Tyrant come crashing to the gound.

Hopefully the rumors about Snapfire being buffed will be enough to please the non-FMC armies.