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 kronk wrote:
Compare this LE 7th Ed rule book £200 (335) to the CE Forge World Horus Heresy package for £145 ($243). I don't think it's worth it, but that's just me.

Spoiler:

Just so it's comparable, those covers on the FW books are expensive covers to make. Embossed, foil stamped, separate printed label assembly. Those are typically what would be on LE books.

The ones on the 7th edition ones are standard covers, no different than current hardcovers, just with different artwork. In other words, not a single extra penny in cost to GW. But they sure as heck are going to stick it to anyone buying that junk.

Reminds me of something my father used to say to me when I was a young'un more than 35 years ago.... "Son. Some people just have more money than brains!" I guess that is exactly what GW is betting on with such a complete rip off for something they will obsolete in another two years.

BS -2 for snapshots? That means no snapshots for orks at all , is that right?

no, it would reduce BS to 1. so still snapshots for orks.

Oh cool snap fire is at -2bs now instead of Bs1. So now my vets will get to hit on a 5+ instead of just a six. Too bad my tanks will still be BS1.

I almost finished my command vanquisher too, so that will get to hit flyers on 5+. Time to try and snipe a stormraven with a vanquisher round.

Herzlos wrote:


Visions isn't worth $5 with a soft cover. Who in their right mind would pay $50 for visions with a hard cover? Unless it was signed by the team or something.

It's not the monthly magazine, it's an art book.

Well, unless Tetrisphreak got annoyed by me reposting HIS pictures of HIS magazine via Photobucket because his hot links to his Dropbox account don't show up in posts (which, as he was aware I was doing it, I doubt) GW, or someone with too much time and a slightly unhealthy love for GW, have reported the images and they've been removed.

So, let us not forget that for every small improvement we may be seeing, there is still a an element that are massive, massive douches.

 whembly wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 buddha wrote:
I'm realizing in horror that with the new objective secured rule eldar jetbikes just officially became the best troop choices in the game.

White Scars being a close second.

Ravenwing would like a word with you.

Unless Skilled Rider changes White Scars still do it better (auto-pass dangerous terrain tests). Plus Grav Guns.

Hold on a second. There is a "Dark Millennium" book in the 7th ed slipcase, however you can also buy a "dark millennium" book individually online.

Am I seeing this right? Is it possible that purchasing individual books may be possible through GW directly?

 azreal13 wrote:
Well, unless Tetrisphreak got annoyed by me reposting HIS pictures of HIS magazine via Photobucket because his hot links to his Dropbox account don't show up in posts (which, as he was aware I was doing it, I doubt) GW, or someone with too much time and a slightly unhealthy love for GW, have reported the images and they've been removed.

So, let us not forget that for every small improvement we may be seeing, there is still a an element that are massive, massive douches.

Good thing I backed them up then.
http://talkwargaming.blogspot.com/2014/05/news-7th-edition-revealed.html

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 buddha wrote:
I'm realizing in horror that with the new objective secured rule eldar jetbikes just officially became the best troop choices in the game.

White Scars being a close second.

Ravenwing would like a word with you.

Unless Skilled Rider changes White Scars still do it better (auto-pass dangerous terrain tests). Plus Grav Guns.

...for cheaper, with a better HoW too (my bikes look Raven play White )

Here is the thing about the collectors box. Its not for everyone, nor is it targeted at every one.

For many people the collectors edition is probably a weeks work+. So the upgrade is not worth it. Because of the offset in cost to resources.

However there are people in this hobby who are collectors, who also make a lot of money. For some of them the limited edition might be at most two hours work. So for two hours of work I would HAPPILY buy the collectors edition, I would have more money than I could spendat those kinds of wages so its either things I can enjoy now or more savings. Also getting a mini rulebook that is super handy. If you make that kind of money anything that saves you minutes per game is worth every dollar. These are the same kinds of people that pay a couple hundred to thousands of dollars to get their armies painted. You think an additional 200 bucks or so for the collectors matters?

Even if you don't make that kind of money it is nice to have, one of those little things where you get to see it on your shelf everyday or enjoy your exclusive extras.

Am I saying this is a majority of their base? Nope, but there is probably enough to warrent a 2000 copy print run.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 buddha wrote:
I'm realizing in horror that with the new objective secured rule eldar jetbikes just officially became the best troop choices in the game.

White Scars being a close second.

Ravenwing would like a word with you.

Unless Skilled Rider changes White Scars still do it better (auto-pass dangerous terrain tests). Plus Grav Guns.

Pfft. (let's not get into a WS vs RW wang debate).

I was referencing how RW can naturally spam out high # of "troop" units with that "objective secured rule".

 Leth wrote:
Also getting a mini rulebook that is super handy.

Also if you make that kind of money anything that saves you minutes per game is worth every dollar.

But we're all getting a mini-rulebook. The basic ($85) rulebook will come as 3 separate books per White Dwarf. Notice it says "Slipcased 3 volume hardback set"? 1. Rules, 2. Fluff, 3. Pretty Model Pictures.

with the rumored Jink change, do we know if this increases the Jink boost to 3+ for moving flat out or will it just be a "4+" regardless?

If so (and especially coupled with the rumored "snapshots=BS-2") this will make certain skimmers particularly heinous, particularly those with "+1 to cover save" wargear (wave serpents with 2+ cover saves for example or 3+ "fire everything at BS2 with rerolls")

 Leth wrote:
Here is the thing about the collectors box. Its not for everyone, nor is it targeted at every one.

For many people the collectors edition is probably a weeks work+. So the upgrade is not worth it. Because of the offset in cost to resources.

However there are people in this hobby who are collectors, who also make a lot of money. For some of them the limited edition might be at most two hours work. So for two hours of work I would HAPPILY buy the collectors edition, I have more money than I can typically spend at those kinds of wages so its either things I can enjoy now or more savings.

Even if you dont make that kind of money it is nice to have, one of those little things where you get to see it on your shelf everyday or enjoy your exclusive extras. Also getting a mini rulebook that is super handy.

Also if you make that kind of money anything that saves you minutes per game is worth every dollar.

Am I saying this is a majority of their base? Nope, but there is probably enough to warrent a 2000 copy print run.

I get what you're saying Leth. And obviously with the low print-count this is supposed to be a rather exclusive option for people with money to, well, burn.

But I think the problem with the Munitorum edition is there is little reason for it to warrant that $340 price tag. Like wayshubba said, all of the extras together with the hardcover books leaves the cost of the box alone at a price tag of about $180. That's not so much offering wealthy customers much value other than to say you are that much wealthier than other customers; that an extra $100 doesn't even make you flinch.

Overpriced collectors editions are always overpriced. Whats the point in whining about the price of a CE?

 Peregrine wrote:

This doesn't even make any sense. If cover and invulnerable saves are allowed then all you've got is an AP 2 weapon. Why would you ever take a D-weapon when you can take things like STR 10 AP 2 guns with a bigger template?

Not sure why cover saves keep popping up in relation to D weapons, the WD scan confirms that only INVULN saves are taken against 2-5 wound rolls ond the D chart

 Wayshuba wrote:

Just so it's comparable, those covers on the FW books are expensive covers to make. Embossed, foil stamped, separate printed label assembly. Those are typically what would be on LE books.

Absolutely fair points, Wayshuba. And I agree that it points out the disparity between the 2 products even further.

(I love my FW HH books!)

I think the meta will change to even less high strength AT weapons being taken....

first there is the explodes on 7, essentially nerfing AP1 and AP2 weapons since you now just want to glance things to death even more

then there is the BS2 snapshot for BS4 armies

then there is the improved jink cover save, but at the cost of reducing your weapons to snapshots

all on all, this means we'll only see much, much more shuriken cannon / scatter laser spam than before

on the other hand, with most BS4 armies being able to snapshot at BS2, this will make AV 10 flyers even less durable. why bother with skyfire if you can just bolter blast them from the sky?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Well, unless Tetrisphreak got annoyed by me reposting HIS pictures of HIS magazine via Photobucket because his hot links to his Dropbox account don't show up in posts (which, as he was aware I was doing it, I doubt) GW, or someone with too much time and a slightly unhealthy love for GW, have reported the images and they've been removed.

So, let us not forget that for every small improvement we may be seeing, there is still a an element that are massive, massive douches.

Good thing I backed them up then.
http://talkwargaming.blogspot.com/2014/05/news-7th-edition-revealed.html

Yeah, I've got them saved on my tablet and they're still up on the FB page I manage, but I'll be blowed if I can be arsed to set up another online account to host them somewhere else to post them here again.

Rick_1138 wrote:
TBF to the munitorum edition, you get the counters and psychic cards and the separate art book included so its not THAT much of a rip off, the Ltd Ed tax is on top but its not crazy mental.

And I like Collectors eds so im happy its not just a slip case!

What do you mean that much of a rip?

Buying the standard version and the extra bits puts it at a little over $150. You're paying twice that amount for a different cover and a number printed on the inside.

It is crazy mental. There's no way to justify something being that much more when the content is identical.

*EDIT* Forgot the art book.

 kronk wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Also getting a mini rulebook that is super handy.

Also if you make that kind of money anything that saves you minutes per game is worth every dollar.

But we're all getting a mini-rulebook. The basic ($85) rulebook will come as 3 separate books per White Dwarf. Notice it says "Slipcased 3 volume hardback set"? 1. Rules, 2. Fluff, 3. Pretty Model Pictures.

Mini Rulebook =/= Rules-only Book.

 Alex C wrote:


Mini Rulebook =/= Rules-only Book.

I guess i don't know what you're talking about, then. The collectors set doesn't have a "mini-rulebook" that's any different than the rules-only book.

Mini-Rulebook is usually in reference to the smaller, A5-sized book that comes in starter sets.

Let's ebay it all out -

3 rulebook $85 (retail)
box $50ish (an apoc box sold for $87)
coins $40ish (if lucky)
map $15ish (maybe)
card set 1 $25ish
card set 2 $25ish
ref cards $15ish (perhaps?)
slip case $20 (no joke, I sold my Astra Militarum for $25 on ebay)

$275ish...

mystery small book? $?

The limited edition Apocalypse sets still sell for their retail price on ebay....didn't lose or gain value.... Granted, they rarely sell though....

 Happygrunt wrote:
Oh cool snap fire is at -2bs now instead of Bs1. So now my vets will get to hit on a 5+ instead of just a six. Too bad my tanks will still be BS1.

I almost finished my command vanquisher too, so that will get to hit flyers on 5+. Time to try and snipe a stormraven with a vanquisher round.

Tau buffmanders just became more awesomer. Overwatching BS3 drones? Sure.

Ok i've rerun the math for the psyker stuff,this time with a bit more time on my hands. Last time i forgot that you can get a peril even with a triple 6, not only a double one. This increases the chances quite a bit from 6 dices on. Also while i was at it i also calculated the chances to double and triple peril.

WC 1:

1 : 50%
2 : 75%
3 : 87.5%
4 : 94%

WC 2:

1 : 0
2 : 25%
3 : 50%
4 : 69%
5 : 81%
6 : 89%

WC 3:

1 : 0
2 : 0
3 : 12.5%
4 : 31%
5 : 50%
6 : 65%
7 : 77%
8 : 85%

Peril:

1 : 0
2 : 2.8%
3 : 7.4% (7+0.4)
4 : 13% (11.5+1.5)
5 : 19.2% (16+3.2)
6 : 21% (20+1)
7 : 31.2% (23.4+7.8)
8 : 36.4%(26+10.4)

Double Peril

1 : 0
2 : 0
3 : 0
4 : 0.0007%
5 : 0.003% (0.003+0)
6 : 0.8% (0.8+0)
7 : 1.74% (1.56+0.18)
8 : 3%(2.6+0.4)

Triple Peril

1 : 0
2 : 0
3 : 0
4 : 0
5 : 0
6 : 0.00002%
7 : 0.00012%(0.00012+0)
8 : 0.00042%(0.0004+0.00002)

There is a mini rulebook in addition to the full size one, so in effect two rules books are included on top of the templates limited edition stuff and cards.

Buying the standard version, and cards is 108, the art book is an addition 65 or so, so we are at 173. Now factor in the additional mini rulebook, special covers for everything, special templates etc. Only looking at an additional 100 or so for the limited edition part.

You also have an exclusive cover among other things. To many people that exclusivity is worth the extra price alone. Do I think it is worth it? Not for me right now cause I dont make enough to justify it. But if I was a big boy with a real adult job I would probably do it. Warhammer is about the only thing I really spend disposable income on since I stopped playing video games.

See, personally it doesn't bother me that Lamborghini is charging thousands for a rear-view cam on their new Huracan that comes very cheaply or standard on average passenger cars.

But then I'm not the kind of person to much spend time and mental energy complaining about the value of a luxury item I'm not going to buy anyway.

 azreal13 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 azreal13 wrote:
Well, unless Tetrisphreak got annoyed by me reposting HIS pictures of HIS magazine via Photobucket because his hot links to his Dropbox account don't show up in posts (which, as he was aware I was doing it, I doubt) GW, or someone with too much time and a slightly unhealthy love for GW, have reported the images and they've been removed.

So, let us not forget that for every small improvement we may be seeing, there is still a an element that are massive, massive douches.

Good thing I backed them up then.
http://talkwargaming.blogspot.com/2014/05/news-7th-edition-revealed.html

Yeah, I've got them saved on my tablet and they're still up on the FB page I manage, but I'll be blowed if I can be arsed to set up another online account to host them somewhere else to post them here again.

Can't blame you on that one. I only rehosted them on the blog for the few people who read the blog but don't hang out on boards.

 Accolade wrote:

 Leth wrote:
Here is the thing about the collectors box. Its not for everyone, nor is it targeted at every one.

For many people the collectors edition is probably a weeks work+. So the upgrade is not worth it. Because of the offset in cost to resources.

However there are people in this hobby who are collectors, who also make a lot of money. For some of them the limited edition might be at most two hours work. So for two hours of work I would HAPPILY buy the collectors edition, I have more money than I can typically spend at those kinds of wages so its either things I can enjoy now or more savings.

Even if you dont make that kind of money it is nice to have, one of those little things where you get to see it on your shelf everyday or enjoy your exclusive extras. Also getting a mini rulebook that is super handy.

Also if you make that kind of money anything that saves you minutes per game is worth every dollar.

Am I saying this is a majority of their base? Nope, but there is probably enough to warrent a 2000 copy print run.

I get what you're saying Leth. And obviously with the low print-count this is supposed to be a rather exclusive option for people with money to, well, burn.

But I think the problem with the Munitorum edition is there is little reason for it to warrant that $340 price tag. Like wayshubba said, all of the extras together with the hardcover books leaves the cost of the box alone at a price tag of about $180. That's not so much offering wealthy customers much value other than to say you are that much wealthier than other customers; that an extra $100 doesn't even make you flinch.

I hate to say this, but I am one of those people with plenty of money to burn. Quite honestly, there isn't a price on anything GW that would deter me based on my income. However, it doesn't mean I am stupid with my money either. I expect fair value for what I spend regardless of what it is (or unless my wife or son really wants it). This is NOT a fair value - it is a blatant rip off and seeing GW do something like this actually disturbs me a bit to think they would stoop so low as to try and pull this s*** off on people. Just the general principle of it tells me they have turned into a bunch of moneygrubbing scumbags. Sorry, but that is exactly how someone who could easily afford this LE feels. So I ask again, just who are they targeting this at?

Edit: Oh, and Leth, when you talk about someone making that in two hours you do realize that means they earn at least a $400,000 salary don't you? How many people like that do you think are really playing GW games (I personally know of only one)? And if that is GWs target, then they sure as heck are going to have a very, very small customer base soon.