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 ClockworkZion wrote:

 paqman wrote:
I have a feeling that Snapfire -2BS would be the last nail in the coffin of assault based armies.
Imagine assaulting TAUs with their combined overwatch (don't remember the exact name).
Its already devastating as it is right now.

Though, who knows, they might split Overwatch from the Snapfire definition and have different a different write up that specifically says that overwatch is done at BS1.

 azreal13 wrote:

Would be a good way of buffing OW while preserving flier durability though (assuming desire or intent to do so)

As you can see above, I hope for the contrary

Tau are BS3 so they'd still Overwatch at BS1. It'd be a buff to Marine, Necron, Eldar and Sisters armies though.

Ha! I didn't remember that .... and I play against them every 2 weeks

So will this be able to be purchased in the iPad or do we have to wait for that? Do we have any information about the e-versions of the book/s?

 Wayshuba wrote:

 Leth wrote:


But once again it is all relative. I know I would enjoy owning it if I had the funds to spare. But sadly I dont even have the choice so it is moot for me.

You make a very important point here (one I discussed at length on another forum). More important than any in regard to the pricing. If GW keeps going, with $340 rule sets and 70% price increases in one go, eventually they WILL price the majority of their customer base from buying, even if they want to. To reach that point, always without a single exception, spells the complete collapse of a company. It is a practice taught in every business school and used by every business in the world except for GW. Because, to reach that point always puts a company out of business very, very fast.

Are they there yet, no, but they have crossed the threshold into that territory and, if they keep going, which it appears they are going to do, mark my words we will all see a rapid and complete collapse. Every single company in business history, regardless of size, that has crossed that threshold has done so. The largest in US history was Wang Computer which went from $51 billion in sales to completely out of business in two years! This pricing law is considered a law (as opposed to a rule) for a very good reason - it has always had the same predictable outcome - the company death of a company in a very short time frame.

I am still going to buy the rulebook, so that is not changing. They are still getting that sale. All the price increases have done is that I have had to reduce the number of hobbies I have. Now I dont play as many video games since I dont have the time anymore anyway, I decided to invest my resources in painting and playing warhammer stuff. So for example instead of getting an Xbox 1 I got an airbrush set which now has made any investment in warhammer stuff more enjoyable by increasing my enjoyment and value from each hobby purchase. I invested in a tentacle maker so now I can make cool conversions, once again increasing value from each further purchase where I use it. Each box comes with more options now than it did before meaning that magnets, pinning vice, etc all further increase the value I get from every purchase I make.

So where as before I was getting more models but not as much value, now even at the increased prices I get a LOT more value per dollar from my minis. Do I wish they were cheaper? Sure but I dont mind because I am now getting way more value than I used to, so I guess it doesnt bother me as much.

Davor wrote:
So will this be able to be purchased in the iPad or do we have to wait for that? Do we have any information about the e-versions of the book/s?

No mention of price, but it is confirmed that they will have an Ibook and ebook version on launch

 paqman wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 paqman wrote:
I have a feeling that Snapfire -2BS would be the last nail in the coffin of assault based armies.
Imagine assaulting TAUs with their combined overwatch (don't remember the exact name).
Its already devastating as it is right now.

Though, who knows, they might split Overwatch from the Snapfire definition and have different a different write up that specifically says that overwatch is done at BS1.

 azreal13 wrote:

Would be a good way of buffing OW while preserving flier durability though (assuming desire or intent to do so)

As you can see above, I hope for the contrary

Tau are BS3 so they'd still Overwatch at BS1. It'd be a buff to Marine, Necron, Eldar and Sisters armies though.

Ha! I didn't remmeber that .... and I play against them every 2 weeks

Yeah, they have ways to purchase BS2 Overwatch on some things, and they use Markerlights to (potentially) buff the Overwatch, but they'd be BS1 base on most things.

 Leth wrote:

Davor wrote:
So will this be able to be purchased in the iPad or do we have to wait for that? Do we have any information about the e-versions of the book/s?

No mention of price, but it is confirmed that they will have an Ibook and ebook version on launch

Thank you. Good to know. Now where the hell are the iTune cards for sale now.

Well, for Uk residents, Tesco are doing a £25 card for £17 worth of Clubcard vouchers, and that isn't even real money in the first place!

 Leth wrote:

 Wayshuba wrote:

 Leth wrote:


But once again it is all relative. I know I would enjoy owning it if I had the funds to spare. But sadly I dont even have the choice so it is moot for me.

You make a very important point here (one I discussed at length on another forum). More important than any in regard to the pricing. If GW keeps going, with $340 rule sets and 70% price increases in one go, eventually they WILL price the majority of their customer base from buying, even if they want to. To reach that point, always without a single exception, spells the complete collapse of a company. It is a practice taught in every business school and used by every business in the world except for GW. Because, to reach that point always puts a company out of business very, very fast.

Are they there yet, no, but they have crossed the threshold into that territory and, if they keep going, which it appears they are going to do, mark my words we will all see a rapid and complete collapse. Every single company in business history, regardless of size, that has crossed that threshold has done so. The largest in US history was Wang Computer which went from $51 billion in sales to completely out of business in two years! This pricing law is considered a law (as opposed to a rule) for a very good reason - it has always had the same predictable outcome - the company death of a company in a very short time frame.

I am still going to buy the rulebook, so that is not changing. They are still getting that sale. All the price increases have done is that I have had to reduce the number of hobbies I have. Now I dont play as many video games since I dont have the time anymore anyway, I decided to invest my resources in painting and playing warhammer stuff. So for example instead of getting an Xbox 1 I got an airbrush set which now has made any investment in warhammer stuff more enjoyable by increasing my enjoyment and value from each hobby purchase. I invested in a tentacle maker so now I can make cool conversions, once again increasing value from each further purchase where I use it. Each box comes with more options now than it did before meaning that magnets, pinning vice, etc all further increase the value I get from every purchase I make.

So where as before I was getting more models but not as much value, now even at the increased prices I get a LOT more value per dollar from my minis. Do I wish they were cheaper? Sure but I dont mind because I am now getting way more value than I used to, so I guess it doesnt bother me as much.

Davor wrote:
So will this be able to be purchased in the iPad or do we have to wait for that? Do we have any information about the e-versions of the book/s?

No mention of price, but it is confirmed that they will have an Ibook and ebook version on launch

I also tremendously reduced my purchases of GW stuff in the last 12 months (Though my armies are extensive as they are, so I don't "need" as much stuff as before). So basically, my spending went done for a few thousand $ a year, to a few hundred $ a year.

All this to say, I will also buy the book, the mission cards, the objectives and possibly the new templates if they are nice looking. But other then the occasional replacement paint pot, I don't need more. Which is unfortunate, I would like to have more armies, but looking back, I can't convince myself to invest as much as I did.

Anyways.... very happy with the majority of what I see up to now in the rumors and I can't wait to read every little rule parts of 7th and consider their impacts in the game. I was initially very reluctant to give in to unbound, but I think the tactical advantages of Bound armies will be interesting to test against a strong Unbound list.

 Leth wrote:
I invested in a tentacle maker

Tell me more.

 undertow wrote:

 Leth wrote:
I invested in a tentacle maker

Tell me more.

Ninja'd, but yes. Out of this whole thread, this is what interests me most

 Verd_Warr wrote:

 undertow wrote:

 Leth wrote:
I invested in a tentacle maker

Tell me more.

Ninja'd, but yes. Out of this whole thread, this is what interests me most

Guys, this is off-topic, but they've been around for a while!




On-Topic: Called my FLGS up yesterday and reserved my 7th edition book. Looking forward to it!

 undertow wrote:

 Leth wrote:
I invested in a tentacle maker

Tell me more.

http://www.greenstuffindustries.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html

Its there.

Sorry for getting off topic.

But still it is interesting how for myself every new confirmation makes me go back to the army lists and make small changes. I almost spend more time list building than playing but it is a lot of fun and since I have a large collection i dont really need to buy anything outside of what I would want anyway.

It will also be interesting to see when they release all the books FAQs to bring abilities in line.

 azreal13 wrote:
There has been a persistent rumour of a characteristic test (either LD or I) to allow OW for a while now, if there's something in that, or some other penalty, it could all work out fine.

I'm a daemons player, and I'm not panicking yet. (Yet....)

I'm hoping there's a change to allow psychic shooting to be used for Overwatch.

 Leth wrote:
It will also be interesting to see when they release all the books FAQs to bring abilities in line.

Honestly, the FAQs may be a bigger make-or-break for me than the actual rulebook. Because even if the rules are decent if the FAQs make a mess of everything, what is the point?

I do hope Wave Serpent spam dies with this edition. Then again I'm no fan of spam armies in general.

 Leth wrote:

 undertow wrote:

 Leth wrote:
I invested in a tentacle maker

Tell me more.

http://www.greenstuffindustries.com/store/c1/Featured_Products.html

Its there.

Sorry for getting off topic.

But still it is interesting how for myself every new confirmation makes me go back to the army lists and make small changes. I almost spend more time list building than playing but it is a lot of fun and since I have a large collection i dont really need to buy anything outside of what I would want anyway.

It will also be interesting to see when they release all the books FAQs to bring abilities in line.

Hey, thanks for posting a link to that, Leth! That looks to be quite a useful tool, I may have to pick one up.

I do certainly hope that 7th will see the return of FAQs for the armies, although I hope even more so that the need for FAQ is a bit diminished, if GW's claim for "thousdands of games" worth of feedback is to be believed.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Leth wrote:
It will also be interesting to see when they release all the books FAQs to bring abilities in line.

Honestly, the FAQs may be a bigger make-or-break for me than the actual rulebook.

I do hope Wave Serpent spam dies with this edition.

Haven't seen anything rumoured to make that likely.

They'd be more durable with the increase to Jink saves and they'd snapshot more accurately than they currently do.

So less damage output when Jinking than at the moment but more durability and more damage output than if they were snapshooting now.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Leth wrote:
It will also be interesting to see when they release all the books FAQs to bring abilities in line.

Honestly, the FAQs may be a bigger make-or-break for me than the actual rulebook.

I do hope Wave Serpent spam dies with this edition.

Haven't seen anything rumoured to make that likely.

They'd be more durable with the increase to Jink saves and they'd snapshot more accurately than they currently do.

So less damage output when Jinking than at the moment but more durability and more damage output than if they were snapshooting now.

That's one of the reasons the FAQs are so important to how I approach the edition.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

So Orks can't do it at all?

I think it's safe to assume minimum of BS1.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 azreal13 wrote:

But HTH is a separate rule, which may itself have been revised and may simply state "hit on 6s, no exceptions"

Perhaps, but as it is right now it just makes you Snapfire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Veriamp wrote:
I have just recived an email from the online discounter I use for the 7th ed rule book. After all the talk of a 100 price tag I was really happy to see preorders for $66.

GW is selling it for $85USD. That's been confirmed a couple times now.

Actually is it $100 for me, you know being Canadian and all. I still don't understand the massive 20% price difference between here and across the boarder, its like GW is living in the 90s.

I'm in the category of "easily affording" the LE, but spade a spade; it's a rip off out to sucker die hard fans. And it's a damned shame.

I'll be passing until GW matches price parity with their competition. $85 is a good investment in any other game. $340 would be an entire army in almost any other game, possibly two.

None of these changes that are leaking appear to "fix" anything, rather just shuffle x and y around (add z while they're at it). Sixth could have been easily patched with errata and the codices are where most of the problems stem. Remember, sixth went over a year with zero rules support. Are you going to dump $85 on a product that may (and very likely) end up in the same position?

Use a bit of reason instead of a gut check versus your sunk cost into your armies. Apply the "wait and see" approach. This may turn out to be a great release and you'll buy in whole hog (me too). Given the track record of the company'so business practices over the last year it would only be reasonable.

Maybe by "limited edition" they mean "We'll be changing editions really soon so its usefulness is limited?"

 Veriamp wrote:
Actually is it $100 for me, you know being Canadian and all. I still don't understand the massive 20% price difference between here and across the boarder, its like GW is living in the 90s.

Especially since the Canadian Dollar is worth more than the US Dollar at this point.

 MWHistorian wrote:
Maybe by "limited edition" they mean "We'll be changing editions really soon so its usefulness is limited?"

Nailed it!

At the end of the day 100$ is still less then most of my textbooks from school, and tbh I enjoy my brb far more than my management of people by people or filmstudies....

Canadians are too nice to complain about prices?

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Veriamp wrote:
Actually is it $100 for me, you know being Canadian and all. I still don't understand the massive 20% price difference between here and across the boarder, its like GW is living in the 90s.

Especially since the Canadian Dollar is worth more than the US Dollar at this point.

It's getting amusing how this game is so expensive that I time my purchases based on the relative strengths of currencies. Those XV9s are out of reach when the Canadian Dollar is at 50% of the GBP.

 zammerak wrote:

 MWHistorian wrote:
Maybe by "limited edition" they mean "We'll be changing editions really soon so its usefulness is limited?"

Nailed it!

At the end of the day 100$ is still less then most of my textbooks from school, and tbh I enjoy my brb far more than my management of people by people or filmstudies....

I'm actually going to try shopping for my textbooks online versus the college.

But yes, textbooks are friggin expensive and GW looks better than the nearly $200 books I buy to use for only a semester.

 TheKbob wrote:
I'm in the category of "easily affording" the LE, but spade a spade; it's a rip off out to sucker die hard fans. And it's a damned shame.

I'll be passing until GW matches price parity with their competition. $85 is a good investment in any other game. $340 would be an entire army in almost any other game, possibly two.

None of these changes that are leaking appear to "fix" anything, rather just shuffle x and y around (add z while they're at it). Sixth could have been easily patched with errata and the codices are where most of the problems stem. Remember, sixth went over a year with zero rules support. Are you going to dump $85 on a product that may (and very likely) end up in the same position?

Use a bit of reason instead of a gut check versus your sunk cost into your armies. Apply the "wait and see" approach. This may turn out to be a great release and you'll buy in whole hog (me too). Given the track record of the company'so business practices over the last year it would only be reasonable.

Of course, it's also possible to pre-order or buy the new rulebook on the release day and be a reasonable human being using a reasonable, rational approach to their spending.

Personally, I see no way that a "wait and see" approach will help me decide if I like 7th edition. I need to read it, digest it, play it and find out for myself.

Can someone show a link to the GW site so I can see the info first hand? I can't seem to find anything on it?

Crazy Jay wrote:
Can someone show a link to the GW site so I can see the info first hand? I can't seem to find anything on it?

You won't be able to see it "first hand" until Friday when Pre-Orders go live.
Here's the videos that are out so far though:

I think the "2 yearers" should take a break, or stick with 6th, in their gaming circles for about 2 years...

I can just see the "2 yearers" who are hesitant to buy this 7th edition (thinking the 2 years of 6th has set the standard for GW somehow for 7th editions shelf life), wait 2 years to see if 7th is still around, or 8th is coming, just to discover 7th is still going, and finally buy a 7th edition rule book.

Then they say, "Oh, I guess it is here to stay for awhile." but then 7th lasts 2 more years, making it 4 (God, I hope longer though), and the "2 yearers" cries rise again! "...It only lasted me 2 years!"

Why'd ya wait?

Also, if 8th comes out after 7th is out just 2 years, with the logic of the "2 yearers", 8th would last 2 years too.....So....

 spartanlegion wrote:
I think the "2 yearers" should take a break, or stick with 6th, in their gaming circles for about 2 years...

I can just see the "2 yearers" who are hesitant to buy this 7th edition (thinking the 2 years of 6th has set the standard for GW somehow for 7th editions shelf life), wait 2 years to see if 7th is still around, or 8th is coming, just to discover 7th is still going, and finally buy a 7th edition rule book.

Then they say, "Oh, I guess it is here to stay for awhile." but then 7th lasts 2 more years, making it 4 (God, I hope longer though), and the "2 yearers" cries rise again! "...It only lasted me 2 years!"

Why'd ya wait?

Also, if 8th comes out after 7th is out just 2 years, with the logic of the "2 yearers", 8th would last 2 years too.....So....

I don't see where anyone is making an argument for waiting for two years. You're arguing against something no one's said. At least to my knowledge. Why wait two years? If you like 7th, then get it. If you don't, then don't. If you want to wait and see, you can get a pretty accurate judgement after a month or so.
But, if 2 years is the new cycle, then yes, some people do have a problem with that. Some will suck it up and some will move away. At this stage in GW's game, they shouldn't be doing moves that push people away. They should be doing the opposite in fact.

Approciate the info, being new to the game, I'm still behind the info curve. Many thanks.