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According to the leaked Perils test, uh... failing Possession does nothing.

Meaning if you get a Perils test and manage to not die which is a VERY good chance...

You get the Greater Daemon.

Welcome to the Harm Dome, 40 Warp Charge power Tzeentch army summoning 4 Greater Daemons on the First turn. Welcome.


I REALLY WANT TO KNOW THE RULES TO CONJURED PSYKERS.

 Hulksmash wrote:

NamelessBard wrote:
As much as I hate to say it, it seems like we got suckered into a 2 year beta test we had to pay for.

$3.12 a month is a fine price to pay to play a game I enjoy. That's pretty close to what the rulebook cost us for 6th edition. Shorter than normal sure but worth the price for the amount of time I got to play.

Other than Orks, which books didn't see an update in 6e? I honestly don't know. Because with GW speeing up the release rate for codecies (and even adding new ones in!), I'm not sure how those complaining about the shortened edition cycle thought this would go down. Were people honestly thinking GW would update (almost) everyone and then just sit around with no big new releases?

 stonehorse wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
[Smash being 1 attack is huge. The pen table needing a 7 is huge. TMCs seem to have taken it hard with the nerf bat. The scary world destroyers are going to have a rough time popping a rhino in close combat.

Those big scary nasty WS3 I2 A3 TMC that can be felled by the MIGHTY lasgun, sure did get balanced, boy, were they far too powerful before.

Sarcasm.

TMC didn't lose their effectiveness against infantry. They are just not able to one shot vehicles just like scatter lasers can't one shot rhinos anymore. Quit crying about your TMC's. The new damage chart effects everyone equally.

Please remember that Tyranids now have no ranged attacks that can fit the role of anti tank, sure we can strip hull points off with weight of numbers, but we have no ranged attacks that can one hit kill a vehicle with armour 13+. Combat is our only way to deal with such things, and now it is made worse. When the Codex came out we lost a lot, and now we are losing more... it just feels like GW have no idea what to do with Tyranids, If the losses were accompanied by a meaningful boost to balance it out, that would be fine. However we don't have that.

Sure we will have no issue dealing with armour 12, due to Devourers with Brainleech worms,

As for being good against infantry, I wish.

You have a flyer that has 4 haywire attacks with 36" range... I think thats plenty of antitank.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and it has a 360 degree arc of fire with them.

I see a spike in GW orders for all Daemons from here on out.

Oh you have 3 Riptides, I'll just summon these 10 Greater Daemons real quick.

Anyone know if there's a change to skilled rider or hit and run?

 Xerics wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
[Smash being 1 attack is huge. The pen table needing a 7 is huge. TMCs seem to have taken it hard with the nerf bat. The scary world destroyers are going to have a rough time popping a rhino in close combat.

Those big scary nasty WS3 I2 A3 TMC that can be felled by the MIGHTY lasgun, sure did get balanced, boy, were they far too powerful before.

Sarcasm.

TMC didn't lose their effectiveness against infantry. They are just not able to one shot vehicles just like scatter lasers can't one shot rhinos anymore. Quit crying about your TMC's. The new damage chart effects everyone equally.

Please remember that Tyranids now have no ranged attacks that can fit the role of anti tank, sure we can strip hull points off with weight of numbers, but we have no ranged attacks that can one hit kill a vehicle with armour 13+. Combat is our only way to deal with such things, and now it is made worse. When the Codex came out we lost a lot, and now we are losing more... it just feels like GW have no idea what to do with Tyranids, If the losses were accompanied by a meaningful boost to balance it out, that would be fine. However we don't have that.

Sure we will have no issue dealing with armour 12, due to Devourers with Brainleech worms,

As for being good against infantry, I wish.

You have a flyer that has 4 haywire attacks with 36" range... I think thats plenty of antitank.

Haywire which has insufficient AP to one hit kill a vehicle. So this one unit is plenty of anti-tank, it can fire two a turn, so can't kill by hull pints in one go. Are you really saying that that is a good Anti-tank? A unit that if lucky is going to have to take 2 turns to kill a vehicle.

Are you really saying that 1 unit is all a Codex requires for it's anti-tank capabilities?

Any change to Haywire?

Hollismason wrote:
I see a spike in GW orders for all Daemons from here on out.

Oh you have 3 Riptides, I'll just summon these 10 Greater Daemons real quick.

My Grey Knight force welcomes more demons and the additional Preferred Enemy rerolls.

MarkyMark wrote:
no unit can attempt to manifest the same power more then once per phase. So no having say screamer council or seer council spam the same power to draw your DTW dice out.

Nothing capping re rollable saves.

Checked again and the powers you have access to are in the dex's, no mention in the book of who has access to what bar the malefic and santic tables,


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vector strikes and smash as per the rumours, one vector only on ground targets, ap2 no cover at str. Smash is always ap2 but if you smash dbl str and re roll armour pen

Please tell me I understood this wrong and that you can't now reroll armor saves more than once. I don't want to go back to 2nd ed

M.

 Xerics wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
[Smash being 1 attack is huge. The pen table needing a 7 is huge. TMCs seem to have taken it hard with the nerf bat. The scary world destroyers are going to have a rough time popping a rhino in close combat.

Those big scary nasty WS3 I2 A3 TMC that can be felled by the MIGHTY lasgun, sure did get balanced, boy, were they far too powerful before.

Sarcasm.

TMC didn't lose their effectiveness against infantry. They are just not able to one shot vehicles just like scatter lasers can't one shot rhinos anymore. Quit crying about your TMC's. The new damage chart effects everyone equally.

Please remember that Tyranids now have no ranged attacks that can fit the role of anti tank, sure we can strip hull points off with weight of numbers, but we have no ranged attacks that can one hit kill a vehicle with armour 13+. Combat is our only way to deal with such things, and now it is made worse. When the Codex came out we lost a lot, and now we are losing more... it just feels like GW have no idea what to do with Tyranids, If the losses were accompanied by a meaningful boost to balance it out, that would be fine. However we don't have that.

Sure we will have no issue dealing with armour 12, due to Devourers with Brainleech worms,

As for being good against infantry, I wish.

You have a flyer that has 4 haywire attacks with 36" range... I think thats plenty of antitank.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
and it has a 360 degree arc of fire with them.

This is sarcasm right? You really believe 4 SINGLE USE weapons are enough anti tank? Wow :p

 Xerics wrote:

You have a flyer that has 4 haywire attacks with 36" range... I think thats plenty of antitank.


and it has a 360 degree arc of fire with them.

And those 4 attacks are for the *entire game*. And they hit on a 4+. That flyer can put about 1 HP on a turn, for 2 whole turns. Yeah, I bet those vehicles are shaking now....

Yes, 2 Crones should be able to deal with any one vehicle (unless it gets a cover save). Then what? Do you really think Crons will only take 1 A-barg? Or Am will take only 1 Leman Russ? There is a good chance those two crones can't take out a Land Raider.

And this assumes there are no flyers for them to deal with (which is their primary mission)

 stonehorse wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
[Smash being 1 attack is huge. The pen table needing a 7 is huge. TMCs seem to have taken it hard with the nerf bat. The scary world destroyers are going to have a rough time popping a rhino in close combat.

Those big scary nasty WS3 I2 A3 TMC that can be felled by the MIGHTY lasgun, sure did get balanced, boy, were they far too powerful before.

Sarcasm.

TMC didn't lose their effectiveness against infantry. They are just not able to one shot vehicles just like scatter lasers can't one shot rhinos anymore. Quit crying about your TMC's. The new damage chart effects everyone equally.

Please remember that Tyranids now have no ranged attacks that can fit the role of anti tank, sure we can strip hull points off with weight of numbers, but we have no ranged attacks that can one hit kill a vehicle with armour 13+. Combat is our only way to deal with such things, and now it is made worse. When the Codex came out we lost a lot, and now we are losing more... it just feels like GW have no idea what to do with Tyranids, If the losses were accompanied by a meaningful boost to balance it out, that would be fine. However we don't have that.

Sure we will have no issue dealing with armour 12, due to Devourers with Brainleech worms,

As for being good against infantry, I wish.

You have a flyer that has 4 haywire attacks with 36" range... I think thats plenty of antitank.

Haywire which has insufficient AP to one hit kill a vehicle. So this one unit is plenty of anti-tank, it can fire two a turn, so can't kill by hull pints in one go. Are you really saying that that is a good Anti-tank? A unit that if lucky is going to have to take 2 turns to kill a vehicle.

Are you really saying that 1 unit is all a Codex requires for it's anti-tank capabilities?

Don't they have 4 haywire shots each? If not then someone was cheating pretty hard core against me.

Unless I missed some special rule MC can only fire two weapons a turn. So two haywire shots * 2 turns. Not 4 at the same time.

M.

 Xerics wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
[Smash being 1 attack is huge. The pen table needing a 7 is huge. TMCs seem to have taken it hard with the nerf bat. The scary world destroyers are going to have a rough time popping a rhino in close combat.

Those big scary nasty WS3 I2 A3 TMC that can be felled by the MIGHTY lasgun, sure did get balanced, boy, were they far too powerful before.

Sarcasm.

TMC didn't lose their effectiveness against infantry. They are just not able to one shot vehicles just like scatter lasers can't one shot rhinos anymore. Quit crying about your TMC's. The new damage chart effects everyone equally.

It does not. Most armies have access to AP2 shooting. In fact, many armies have AP1 melta. Tyranids don't. They had assault with MCs. MCs that are generally slower than the vehicles they are trying to pop. The only fast MCs are FMCs and they can no long assault after flying. Tyranids got the shaft on wargear options and that was a problem that has become more dire.

ah then someone did cheat me cause he was shooting 4 haywire attacks PER TURN at my Revenant

 Xerics wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
[Smash being 1 attack is huge. The pen table needing a 7 is huge. TMCs seem to have taken it hard with the nerf bat. The scary world destroyers are going to have a rough time popping a rhino in close combat.

Those big scary nasty WS3 I2 A3 TMC that can be felled by the MIGHTY lasgun, sure did get balanced, boy, were they far too powerful before.

Sarcasm.

TMC didn't lose their effectiveness against infantry. They are just not able to one shot vehicles just like scatter lasers can't one shot rhinos anymore. Quit crying about your TMC's. The new damage chart effects everyone equally.

Please remember that Tyranids now have no ranged attacks that can fit the role of anti tank, sure we can strip hull points off with weight of numbers, but we have no ranged attacks that can one hit kill a vehicle with armour 13+. Combat is our only way to deal with such things, and now it is made worse. When the Codex came out we lost a lot, and now we are losing more... it just feels like GW have no idea what to do with Tyranids, If the losses were accompanied by a meaningful boost to balance it out, that would be fine. However we don't have that.

Sure we will have no issue dealing with armour 12, due to Devourers with Brainleech worms,

As for being good against infantry, I wish.

You have a flyer that has 4 haywire attacks with 36" range... I think thats plenty of antitank.

Haywire which has insufficient AP to one hit kill a vehicle. So this one unit is plenty of anti-tank, it can fire two a turn, so can't kill by hull pints in one go. Are you really saying that that is a good Anti-tank? A unit that if lucky is going to have to take 2 turns to kill a vehicle.

Are you really saying that 1 unit is all a Codex requires for it's anti-tank capabilities?

Don't they have 4 haywire shots each? If not then someone was cheating pretty hard core against me.

They have 4 one shot missiles, but as they are a FMC can fire 2 a turn... 2 of their one shot missiles, not great anti-tank. My Crone has so far never used the missiles, Vector Strike, which also took a massive nerf, and the Drool Cannon.

 Miguelsan wrote:

MarkyMark wrote:
no unit can attempt to manifest the same power more then once per phase. So no having say screamer council or seer council spam the same power to draw your DTW dice out.

Nothing capping re rollable saves.

Checked again and the powers you have access to are in the dex's, no mention in the book of who has access to what bar the malefic and santic tables,


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vector strikes and smash as per the rumours, one vector only on ground targets, ap2 no cover at str. Smash is always ap2 but if you smash dbl str and re roll armour pen

Please tell me I understood this wrong and that you can't now reroll armor saves more than once. I don't want to go back to 2nd ed

M.

I think he's just dispelling the rumour that rerollable 2+ saves would be capped in some way, as there were rumours/wish lists about rerolls being capped at 4+ on a reroll a while ago. I'm 99% sure rerolls will still be limited to once only.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'm done. The invalidating of the psychic cards was the last straw for me. FW continues to have my attention as long as they keep producing excellent books and Mechanicum stuff, but I'm done with GW's bull gak. It's been a long couple of decades, but I've had enough.

They were invalidated a couple weeks ago when we learned that they were going to a Warp Charge system honestly.

So do unused warp charge dice roll over into the next turns? For example, I have 4 warp charge dice 'floating' and choose not to cast anything, next psychic phase I add a d6 + collective mastery lvls of my psykers?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 puma713 wrote:
What, you don't want an $85 errata?

Errata implies improvement, a fixing of things that are broken. None of these things appear to be true about 7th.

But narratives, forging, and so forth.

Hey, to be fair, the errata is free. They are just charging you $85 to need free errata.

That's one of the things that I really just can't believe about this edition. NOT ONLY do you not appear to fix almost ANY of the problems which many, many, people have complained about, GW, you roll out a rulebook which requires extensive errata for almost every army.

This, after you stopped providing any errata for A YEAR for your current rule books.

Do you not see how that is a giant middle finger to your customers? Can you really not see it?


"Not only can we not be bothered to provide you with a relatively error/confusion free product, we can't be bothered to HELP you with the product that you have purchased. Our energies are entirely focused on creating a new product for you to buy, and providing support for THAT product."

It would be like Microsoft discontinuing support for their current OS to put more people on development for the next OS.

BTW, HBMC, if this does, in fact, drive you entirely off GW (save Forgeworld), I'll miss your posts on the topic. Even if I disagreed with you on something, I was always interested in seeing what you had written. Not only do I normally agree with your sense of what is good and valuable about Warhammer 40,000, your posts were always intelligently composed, and, unlike mine, short and to the point.

Tyranids actually got a huge nerf when it comes to destroying vehicles.

They pretty much have to glance them to death.

And they can't blow them up with shooting really.

Wanna be safe from Tyranids hide in a Rhino.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'm done. The invalidating of the psychic cards was the last straw for me. FW continues to have my attention as long as they keep producing excellent books and Mechanicum stuff, but I'm done with GW's bull gak. It's been a long couple of decades, but I've had enough.

They were invalidated a couple weeks ago when we learned that they were going to a Warp Charge system honestly.

Not really. The 'technically still current' psychic cards indicated a warp charge on them. There was no need to change the rules of many existing psychic powers, nor add some and remove some. GW could have just changed the way you figured out how much warp charge you had available to spend and kept the "technically still current" psychic cards and powers. I'm not saying that would have been the best game design decision, but it sure would have been less irritating to those of us who bought the old psychic power cards.

In fact, you could have kept ALL of the old psychic cards and just replaced them codex by codex as each book was released. That way, GW could sell new psychic power cards with each new codex, leaving the old ones valid until replaced. That would also allow more 'customization' of psychic powers for each army (and you could do more cards for each army, since those were the only ones they got). I'm still of the opinion that each significant psyker faction should basically be using their own disciplines anyway. I don't think that Eldar farseers and Ork Wyrdboys and Space Wolf Runepriests should really have very much in common in terms of scholarship. Sure, Blood Angels and Dark Angels and Space Wolves and Ultramarines might have some powers in common between them, but even then, I think you would want some 'chapter specific' disciplines too.

Hollismason wrote:
Tyranids actually got a huge nerf when it comes to destroying vehicles.

They pretty much have to glance them to death.

And they can't blow them up with shooting really.

Wanna be safe from Tyranids hide in a Rhino.

Except glancing rhino's to death is incredibly easy to do (requires half the average shots to do than to kill a 5E rhino) and largely what they were doing before anyway barring heavy MC attacks.

NamelessBard wrote:
As much as I hate to say it, it seems like we got suckered into a 2 year beta test we had to pay for.

You are assuming 6th edition was the beta testing and 7th edition is the finished product.

 Xerics wrote:
You could always not use smash and get your full attacks and glance a rhino to death. S6 MC's (7 with certain wargear) with 5 attacks on the charge against armor 10 3 hull points. If you don't glance it to death in one or 2 turns your doing it wrong or the dice gods hate you. They made vehicles a little more durable which was needed. In 6th if you weren't playing eldar or AV14 your vehicles crumbled to dust in no time. It means you actually need anti tank weapons to be anti tank... OMG WHAT A CONCEPT!

Maybe you're not not paying attention but no one complaining about Smash going to 1 attack was doing so in reference to Rhinos. Armies that rely on MCs to be their anti-tank (mostly Daemons and Nids) will be hard pressed to deal with AV13+ vehicles.

Again, Rhinos are not the issue. They will still die to a stiff breeze. So please stop bringing up Rhinos and other light vehicles when you're tying to justify the nerf to Smash.

 streamdragon wrote:
Other than Orks, which books didn't see an update in 6e? I honestly don't know. Because with GW speeing up the release rate for codecies (and even adding new ones in!), I'm not sure how those complaining about the shortened edition cycle thought this would go down. Were people honestly thinking GW would update (almost) everyone and then just sit around with no big new releases?

Crons? DEldar? GK? BA? SW? And technically SoB

Da Butcha wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'm done. The invalidating of the psychic cards was the last straw for me. FW continues to have my attention as long as they keep producing excellent books and Mechanicum stuff, but I'm done with GW's bull gak. It's been a long couple of decades, but I've had enough.

They were invalidated a couple weeks ago when we learned that they were going to a Warp Charge system honestly.

Not really. The 'technically still current' psychic cards indicated a warp charge on them. There was no need to change the rules of many existing psychic powers, nor add some and remove some. GW could have just changed the way you figured out how much warp charge you had available to spend and kept the "technically still current" psychic cards and powers. I'm not saying that would have been the best game design decision, but it sure would have been less irritating to those of us who bought the old psychic power cards.

In fact, you could have kept ALL of the old psychic cards and just replaced them codex by codex as each book was released. That way, GW could sell new psychic power cards with each new codex, leaving the old ones valid until replaced. That would also allow more 'customization' of psychic powers for each army (and you could do more cards for each army, since those were the only ones they got). I'm still of the opinion that each significant psyker faction should basically be using their own disciplines anyway. I don't think that Eldar farseers and Ork Wyrdboys and Space Wolf Runepriests should really have very much in common in terms of scholarship. Sure, Blood Angels and Dark Angels and Space Wolves and Ultramarines might have some powers in common between them, but even then, I think you would want some 'chapter specific' disciplines too.

I disagree that you could have kept the old ones. The way Warp Charges balance requires more changes than "ML = WC" and it shows. Or else Divination would be a WC1 power.

So yeah, cards invalidated three weeks ago, even if they didn't change powers around.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sir Arun wrote:

 streamdragon wrote:
Other than Orks, which books didn't see an update in 6e? I honestly don't know. Because with GW speeing up the release rate for codecies (and even adding new ones in!), I'm not sure how those complaining about the shortened edition cycle thought this would go down. Were people honestly thinking GW would update (almost) everyone and then just sit around with no big new releases?

Crons? DEldar? GK? BA? SW? And technically SoB

Yeah, Sisters didn't get a codex, they got an errata they had to pay for that dragged the army down an alley and beat it with a nerf bat.

....Not that I'm bitter or unhappy about that since people tell me I'm some kind of White Knight every now and then when I don't see everything as 100% bad. Which means I could never EVER dislike anything GW does. [/sarcasm]

 Xerics wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
[Smash being 1 attack is huge. The pen table needing a 7 is huge. TMCs seem to have taken it hard with the nerf bat. The scary world destroyers are going to have a rough time popping a rhino in close combat.

Those big scary nasty WS3 I2 A3 TMC that can be felled by the MIGHTY lasgun, sure did get balanced, boy, were they far too powerful before.

Sarcasm.

TMC didn't lose their effectiveness against infantry. They are just not able to one shot vehicles just like scatter lasers can't one shot rhinos anymore. Quit crying about your TMC's. The new damage chart effects everyone equally.

If it was just the vehicle damage chart, I don't think me or other MC-using players would be complaining. But the damage charge change and the nerf to Smash will render MCs ineffectual against AV13+ vehicles. Inform yourself before bringing out the attitude.

 undertow wrote:

 Xerics wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:

tag8833 wrote:
[Smash being 1 attack is huge. The pen table needing a 7 is huge. TMCs seem to have taken it hard with the nerf bat. The scary world destroyers are going to have a rough time popping a rhino in close combat.

Those big scary nasty WS3 I2 A3 TMC that can be felled by the MIGHTY lasgun, sure did get balanced, boy, were they far too powerful before.

Sarcasm.

TMC didn't lose their effectiveness against infantry. They are just not able to one shot vehicles just like scatter lasers can't one shot rhinos anymore. Quit crying about your TMC's. The new damage chart effects everyone equally.

If it was just the vehicle damage chart, I don't think me or other MC-using players would be complaining. But the damage charge change and the nerf to Smash will render MCs ineffectual against AV13+ vehicles. Inform yourself before bringing out the attitude.

How many AV13+ rear armor vehicles exist in 40k???

Oh wait - just land raiders. And those are *everywhere*. Psssh

Vehicles over all got a great buff.