Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

sockwithaticket wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

sockwithaticket wrote:
Sorry to pick on you, dude, but why!? If it's not an optimum product and it's non-essential, why purchase it? That tells GW that this is acceptable, that you are prepared to pay money for something substandard. If that's the case then what incentive do they have to produce things that aren't disappointing?

The "non-essential" book is part of a 3 book set with the core rules in one of the other books. You kinda have to buy it to get the rules to play 7th (excluding Jolly Rogering means that shall not be discussed).

They'll bring out a rules-only book. I'll happily eat my hat if they don't, but they will. At which point the 3 book set is non-essential. It may be a few months, but having done it with 6th I can't see why they wouldn't with 7th. It will probably help entice those who aren't sold on 7ths new direction if they don't have to buy the 3 book set to take part.

And how long will that take? Because right now I'm not hearing a single rumor saying it'll be "soon".

I think regardless of the changes GW make to the rules, they'll not be able to please everyone. If you don't like it, fair enough. I think people should really try playing with the ruleset before damning it.

**Clockwork- it's been out less than 24hrs?! You'll just have to wait like everyone else.

yeah except the one they released for 6th was a limited run that went out of print long before 6th edition ended.

So if I were to bet money: not happening with 7th

 ClockworkZion wrote:

And how long will that take? Because right now I'm not hearing a single rumor saying it'll be "soon".

Fair point, but it really comes down to what's more important to you: possess the new rules on day one or start encouraging GW to make decisions and products you're pleased with in the only way that you can. If it's the former then by all means, carry on.

Of course you can always go the ebook route, saving £10. Not entirely clear if that includes all 3 books, but either way you're getting it cheaper without having to provide shelf-space for something like the glorified White Dwarf.

 angelofvengeance wrote:
I think regardless of the changes GW make to the rules, they'll not be able to please everyone. If you don't like it, fair enough. I think people should really try playing with the ruleset before damning it.

**Clockwork- it's been out less than 24hrs?! You'll just have to wait like everyone else.

I own a copy of the full set right now.

I was just saying that there doesn't seem to be a "rules only" version coming in the near future, so chastising people for picking up the full set, even if they don't want/like the compilation books (which used to be inside the same book as people seem to forget, so it's not like they're saddling you with unnecessary stuff without warning (it's a feature not a bug at this point), just making it so you don't have to take EVERYTHING with you to play) is a bit silly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

sockwithaticket wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

And how long will that take? Because right now I'm not hearing a single rumor saying it'll be "soon".

Fair point, but it really comes down to what's more important to you: possess the new rules on day one or start encouraging GW to make decisions and products you're pleased with in the only way that you can. If it's the former then by all means, carry on.

Of course you can always go the ebook route, saving £10. Not entirely clear if that includes all 3 books, but either way you're getting it cheaper without having to provide shelf-space for something like the glorified White Dwarf.

I review new 40k releases, so for me day one is important. And I get it from my FLGS whenever possible to support them over just handing my money over to GW directly.

Ok, cool, so for you the priority is having it day one. However, for the person who isn't doing a review, feels displeased with what they see and hear, but still says they'll buy it anyway, I still have to ask why. It just makes very little sense to me.

Zion (or anyone else),

Is Hit and Run still conferred to an entire unit if just one model has it?

Still no faq? They can't be Faq'ing serious!!

 TheKbob wrote:
Zion (or anyone else),

Is Hit and Run still conferred to an entire unit if just one model has it?

Yes it is. It didn't change.

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Still no faq? They can't be Faq'ing serious!!

GW has already completed all FAQs, it can be found in the section of the rule book that covers resolving rules questions with a die roll. 1-3 your right 4-6 im right

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
Zion (or anyone else),

Is Hit and Run still conferred to an entire unit if just one model has it?

Yes it is. It didn't change.

So much for listening and getting feedback from thousands of games.

That rule is probably the key factor why most Death Stars are what they are...

I suggest everyone gets emailing! Gamefaqs@gwplc.com

 ironicsilence wrote:

 Slayer le boucher wrote:
Still no faq? They can't be Faq'ing serious!!

GW has already completed all FAQs, it can be found in the section of the rule book that covers resolving rules questions with a die roll. 1-3 your right 4-6 your left

How about this one...

Since weapons are resolved "one at a time" now, per profile, could I fire a Melta gun from my BSS at a Rhino, blow it up, and then shoot my flamer/bolters at the contents that spill out?

 ausYenLoWang wrote:


actually you cant HIT into a challenge, you can have excess wounds spill into it, but you cant hit a model thats in a challenge whilst outside it

Sure you can, there is no rule that says you can't engage characters in a challenge, you just can't apply wounds to them until everything else is dead

 TheKbob wrote:
How about this one...

Since weapons are resolved "one at a time" now, per profile, could I fire a Melta gun from my BSS at a Rhino, blow it up, and then shoot my flamer/bolters at the contents that spill out?

I too am troubled that shooting no longer being simul will be gamed, often.

 ausYenLoWang wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:

 Idolator wrote:


The big squad with a nob assaults a single Daemon Prince with a bunch of attacks that has a higher initiative (all of them have a higher initiative than orks) The Daemon Prince makes a challenge. Two choices.
1. Accept. The nob gets killed and the excess wounds kill a few more boyz. The boys cannot attack or engage the prince.
2. refuse. The only guy with a real chance to hurt the Prince can't attack it.
That was why I asked about Monstrous creatures.

So they didn't fix this, they actually made it worse, and they didn't fix anything in assault.

The boyz in the first situation will maul down on the prince. If the unit has no other target it can attack the challenger. The prince hurling a challenge is actually perfectly fluffy, it is him that ignores the orks looking for the big one. So he rolls against his AC and can hurt only him until he is death, but the other orks can slap him freely.

actually you cant HIT into a challenge, you can have excess wounds spill into it, but you cant hit a model thats in a challenge whilst outside it

Ok that's quite a weird wording. It can be interpreted as both:

1) You can't do anything to a challenge going on if you don't have some grunts to punch badly and magically hurt the challenger or
2) Even if there are no grunts the units is still engaged and still fights. The enemy AC is the one of majority, so the challenger's one. Same for resistance. The wounds cannot be assigned to grunts so they go to the challenger. Actually this seems like the most probable RAI, but they could have done it much better.

 TheKbob wrote:
How about this one...

Since weapons are resolved "one at a time" now, per profile, could I fire a Melta gun from my BSS at a Rhino, blow it up, and then shoot my flamer/bolters at the contents that spill out?

Nope, unless your first shot is split fire I suppose. A unit can only shoot at one unit per shooting phase

 Sir Arun wrote:
So if characters lose precision shots, can no longer "delay" an enemy killing machine from massacring their squad, what is their use again?

Um, same uses they had for 4 editions prior?

 Raz'kull Skull Krusha wrote:
AP4 Slugga with +1 Str? Doubt they would be that nice

Sorry Choppa! im now on on my 3erd Cup o' Joe.

But back to the New rules, I read that Storm Boys can assult Flyers, As long as they move 18" (Granted its a rumer, but can all Jump packs do that now?

 TheKbob wrote:
How about this one...

Since weapons are resolved "one at a time" now, per profile, could I fire a Melta gun from my BSS at a Rhino, blow it up, and then shoot my flamer/bolters at the contents that spill out?

No, you have to resolve all the weapons from the same unit at the same target.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 drunkorc wrote:

 Raz'kull Skull Krusha wrote:
AP4 Slugga with +1 Str? Doubt they would be that nice

Sorry Choppa! im now on on my 3erd Cup o' Joe.

But back to the New rules, I read that Storm Boys can assult Flyers, As long as they move 18" (Granted its a rumer, but can all Jump packs do that now?

According to the rules for Flyers they can never be assaulted (unless they're Hovering because then they're fast skimmers).

Any changes to torrent flamers?

 TheKbob wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
Zion (or anyone else),

Is Hit and Run still conferred to an entire unit if just one model has it?

Yes it is. It didn't change.

So much for listening and getting feedback from thousands of games.

That rule is probably the key factor why most Death Stars are what they are...

A lot of the other stuff that made Death Starts good got a kick in the pants though, which helps a lot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheKbob wrote:
Any changes to torrent flamers?

You could just Ctrl+F my review and find out.

Seriously though, no change. Not that it matters, what made the Baledrake so damn good was it's 360 Fire Arc. At least it can't Vector Strike squads to death anymore.

 Lobukia wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
So if characters lose precision shots, can no longer "delay" an enemy killing machine from massacring their squad, what is their use again?

Um, same uses they had for 4 editions prior?

Err...no? Every previous edition they had different uses.

Last edition you could give them a plasma pistol and if you rolled a 6, you could allocate the shot. And they could martyr themselves in a challenge to buy the squad time to run away or last a little longer in cc.

Pre-previous edition if you gave them a power fist, they would keep killing stuff till all other squad mates died.

What are peoples plans for house ruling 7th?


so far we have agreed;

All armies must be Battleforged
No Demonology powers.
No Come the apocalypse allies.
Primary Detachment is restriced to 1 FOC per 1999+1
You may take an Allied detachment from the same codex.
Warp charges are capped to 12.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
Any changes to torrent flamers?

You could just Ctrl+F my review and find out.

Seriously though, no change. Not that it matters, what made the Baledrake so damn good was it's 360 Fire Arc. At least it can't Vector Strike squads to death anymore.

So now Helldrakes no longer have 360° arc anymore, right? Because they were FAQd to have it, and that FAQ was written for 6th edition, and 6th edition is gone.

I don't think you can ban Daemonology powers because I'm willing to bet Grey Knights are going to get Errata'd into only having Santic powers instead of codex ones.

And Come the Apocalypse allies are NOT broken. They have extra restrictions for deployment and follow the rules for "One Eye Open". You can't deathstar with them, they can't buff their allies and generally banning them is frankly idiotic.

And capping Warp Charges is frankly stupid. Go back some pages and look at the math for how powers work. It is a LOT harder to manifest powers now and you NEED those Warp Charges to be even half as useful as you used to in previous editions with Psykers. Plus the more tokens they use the greater the chance that they'll suffer a Perils of the Warp which is not exactly good for them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sir Arun wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 TheKbob wrote:
Any changes to torrent flamers?

You could just Ctrl+F my review and find out.

Seriously though, no change. Not that it matters, what made the Baledrake so damn good was it's 360 Fire Arc. At least it can't Vector Strike squads to death anymore.

So now Helldrakes no longer have 360° arc anymore, right? Because they were FAQd to have it, and that FAQ was written for 6th edition, and 6th edition is gone.

FAQ stands until replaced.

 Sir Arun wrote:


So now Helldrakes no longer have 360° arc anymore, right? Because they were FAQd to have it, and that FAQ was written for 6th edition, and 6th edition is gone.

They still do, the FAQ applies to the codex not the rule book, and the codex is still valid.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Wilson wrote:
What are peoples plans for house ruling 7th?


so far we have agreed;

All armies must be Battleforged
No Demonology powers.
No Come the apocalypse allies.
Primary Detachment is restriced to 1 FOC per 1999+1
You may take an Allied detachment from the same codex.
Warp charges are capped to 12.

Sounds like you guys should just keep playing 6th edition then

Something tells me i should start constructing a Vault for all my Older Rulebooks , 6 Fantasy's, and 5 40k Rulebooks. ohh, and my Chapter Approved's i also baught, and my 17 Army Books

Capping Warp Charge might be silly, I agree. I could barely get anything done with 11 dice, and that was with an almost average Warp Charge roll, a Level 4 and three Level 1's. So if someone has Ahriman, a 2nd Sorcerer HQ and some aspiring sorcerers, they can't go over Warp Charge 12? Hmmm. It's *your* group, not mine, so I support you.

If the community at large starts capping Warp Charge, let's worry about bigger fish- Like how people actually have enough models for 1000-2000pts of new demons throughout the game. You know damn well a majority of the people attempting to get away with that will have just legs glued on bases. I see demon-conjuration spam as a non-issue at my store, but for those of you unfortunate enough to be stuck with players like that I say this: Just refuse to play. It is a better fix than just outright banning demonology or capping warp charge. Rabblerabblerabble

Just thinking out loud. My thoughts are rarely consolidated properly.