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Just a Primary and Allies the events near me will be.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Might have to work something in here to do with Grotesques (which isn't the spam on the first page) as I played with them tonight and they minced 7 units in a 6 turn game (yay for multi assaults).

Love my big, furry, dopey guys, they rock...


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My latest list is (1750). Good fun to play although I miss my Reavers...

Haemo - Shattershard, Crucible, Venom Blade
3x Grotesques (1x Liquifier) + 1x Abberation (Scissorhand) - Raider (Dissies, FF, Jets)
3x Trueborn (Blasters) - Raider (Dissies, FF, Jets)
3x Trueborn (Blasters) - Raider (Dissies, FF, Jets)
5x Wyches (Haywires) - Venom (Dual Cannons)
5x Wyches (Haywires) - Venom (Dual Cannons)
5x Wyches (Haywires) - Venom (Dual Cannons)
5x Wyches (Haywires) - Venom (Dual Cannons)
5x Wyches (Haywires) - Venom (Dual Cannons)
5x Wyches (Haywires) - Venom (Dual Cannons)
1x Ravager (3x Dissies)
1x Ravager (3x Dissies)
1x Ravager (3x Dissies)

Only played it in 6th Ed though tonight (6th Ed tournament at the weekend and playtesting). Tabled a Sternguard Drop Pod list turn 7 though, was good fun.

Grotesques killed 2 Drop Pods, 1 Stalker, 3 Squads of Sternguard and Pedro Kantor (Abberation kicked his ass in a challenge and he ran off the board).

Have you every tried mandrakes on a defense line?
3+ cover from the line + stealth, and BS4 on the quadgun. Once you pick up a token, you've got another 8 S4 AP4 shots. It's not fantastic, but does seem to be just good enough to justify putting those beautiful mandrakes on the table.

You can actually field Mandrakes in 7th Edition without them being totally useless.

One of the Strategic Warlord Traits allows a HQ and 3 Infantry units to Infiltrate, So get 3 squads of Mandrakes and 3 Haemonculi and infiltrate the Haemos with the Mandrakes, they have a pain token then and you can shoot turn 1.

Sitting behind a defense line is a bit of a waste.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
Have you every tried mandrakes on a defense line?
3+ cover from the line + stealth, and BS4 on the quadgun. Once you pick up a token, you've got another 8 S4 AP4 shots. It's not fantastic, but does seem to be just good enough to justify putting those beautiful mandrakes on the table.

remember the quad gun now is BS1 if it is targeting a ground target.

BS2 isnt it? I thought it was a 5 to hit?

Nope your right, snap shots only (page 171).

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
Have you every tried mandrakes on a defense line?
3+ cover from the line + stealth, and BS4 on the quadgun. Once you pick up a token, you've got another 8 S4 AP4 shots. It's not fantastic, but does seem to be just good enough to justify putting those beautiful mandrakes on the table.

Did they change the ADL from 4+ to 3+? That'd be awesome. Nevertheless the stealth is pretty sweet.

If you've got a haemmy in your army though, would Wracks be a better choice? Same BS score, and they don't suck up a valuable elites slot, and although they don't have Stealth, they WILL come with FNP. Plus they would have Objective Secured.

I've thought for some time about putting Mandrakes with a haemmy into a list and just Outflanking with them. That way they'd still come in with a Pain Token.

Shingen wrote:
You can actually field Mandrakes in 7th Edition without them being totally useless.

One of the Strategic Warlord Traits allows a HQ and 3 Infantry units to Infiltrate, So get 3 squads of Mandrakes and 3 Haemonculi and infiltrate the Haemos with the Mandrakes, they have a pain token then and you can shoot turn 1.

Sitting behind a defense line is a bit of a waste.

Mandrakes already have Infiltrate, and 7e say "Units that contain at least one model" Now I hope im not reading that wrong, but A Haemi will have Infiltrate if joined with Mandrakes.

The IC cannot actually deploy with an infiltrating unit. So there's that.

 Jancoran wrote:
The IC cannot actually deploy with an infiltrating unit. So there's that.

Unless wording changed from 6th, that's a whole YMDC can of worms.

 Jancoran wrote:
The IC cannot actually deploy with an infiltrating unit. So there's that.

Under Reserves Pg 135 says IC can join units in reserves. So they can Outflank, but not sure about Infiltrating.

Don't Mandrakes have Infiltrate already? I think Shingen's plan was to give Infiltrate to the three Haemmy's, and then they WOULD be able to Infiltrate with the Mandrakes, since they would both have it.

I could be wrong though.

 Jimsolo wrote:
Don't Mandrakes have Infiltrate already? I think Shingen's plan was to give Infiltrate to the three Haemmy's, and then they WOULD be able to Infiltrate with the Mandrakes, since they would both have it.

I could be wrong though.

WEB WAY PORTAL CRAZYNESS!!!!

Ok, I'm going to have a look now at infiltrate to see if it's all possible.

Mandrakes have stealth, so do get the 3+ cover behind the wall.


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Well that was quick.

Page 166, An independent character without infiltrate cannot join a unit of infiltrators during deployment.

Hopes crushed.

-Matt

Hence the rolling on strategic, don't forget the reroll for battleforged. Alternatively WWP is viable, you just need to open one which isn't too difficult.

Shingen wrote:
Hence the rolling on strategic, don't forget the reroll for battleforged. Alternatively WWP is viable, you just need to open one which isn't too difficult.

Hmm thats a fair point, should be able to get the infiltrate reasonably reliably. But just cant bank on it.
Out of interest;

I suppose I can infiltrate a HQ with a WWP? then turn one deploy it nice and close. Although it would be one hell of a firemagnet! maybe would have to be a HQ with a beastpack? Would be interesting to infiltrate a talos or cronos - 3 of em

Can I infiltrate a unit of warriors with a raider? Does the raider count as a unit in this sense? or is there simply a ruling that vehicles cannot be infiltrated in anyway?

Yes you do both. Another easy way is to use Illich.

The rule says one none vehicle infantry model so no not the Raider.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Jimsolo wrote:
Don't Mandrakes have Infiltrate already? I think Shingen's plan was to give Infiltrate to the three Haemmy's, and then they WOULD be able to Infiltrate with the Mandrakes, since they would both have it.

I could be wrong though.

WEB WAY PORTAL CRAZYNESS!!!!

Ok, I'm going to have a look now at infiltrate to see if it's all possible.

Mandrakes have stealth, so do get the 3+ cover behind the wall.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well that was quick.

Page 166, An independent character without infiltrate cannot join a unit of infiltrators during deployment.

Hopes crushed.

-Matt

Ah missed that about pg 166. thanks

 obsidiankatana wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
The IC cannot actually deploy with an infiltrating unit. So there's that.

Unless wording changed from 6th, that's a whole YMDC can of worms.

Its explicit. If they infiltrate, he's not coming with unless he has infiltrate.

 Jancoran wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:

 Jancoran wrote:
The IC cannot actually deploy with an infiltrating unit. So there's that.

Unless wording changed from 6th, that's a whole YMDC can of worms.

Its explicit. If they infiltrate, he's not coming with unless he has infiltrate.

Mistook it for the ICs bringing along units, rather than other way around.

So this thread is disappointing. Almost all the strategies outlined in the first post are about the Eldar or other allies. For someone who doesn't like mixing armies, it pretty much leaves me hooped.

The new codex better fix some things up or I guess I'm going to be playing another army.

Okay, but I think what Shingen was saying was that if you get the Warlord trait that lets you give out Infiltrate, you give it to the Haemmys. Then they will have Infiltrate, so they can join the Mandrakes.

 Foo wrote:
So this thread is disappointing. Almost all the strategies outlined in the first post are about the Eldar or other allies. For someone who doesn't like mixing armies, it pretty much leaves me hooped.

The new codex better fix some things up or I guess I'm going to be playing another army.

Don't be like that. The Eldar dex is undeniably OP. Because of which, at any competitive scene, you are going to do better taking them as allies - or just taking DE as allies to Eldar. That's what this thread is for, competitive strategies. I personally don't go allies as well, it's not hard to find ways to play like this. It isn't as if it turns you into an unplayable army lol

There is very little in our dex that cannot be used. DE is one of the best written dex's I've seen, almost everything is playable and balanced among itself very well. Look to the dex as opposed to a thread full of highest level tournament strategies, if unfluffy armies aren't your thing.

If you are going to ragequit DE because they aren't on Eldars's level of power, you probably should have done a bit more research to begin with as they have never been a major player.

 SHUPPET wrote:

 Foo wrote:
So this thread is disappointing. Almost all the strategies outlined in the first post are about the Eldar or other allies. For someone who doesn't like mixing armies, it pretty much leaves me hooped.

The new codex better fix some things up or I guess I'm going to be playing another army.

Don't be like that. The Eldar dex is undeniably OP. Because of which, at any competitive scene, you are going to do better taking them as allies - or just taking DE as allies to Eldar. That's what this thread is for, competitive strategies. I personally don't go allies as well, it's not hard to find ways to play like this. It isn't as if it turns you into an unplayable army lol

There is very little in our dex that cannot be used. DE is one of the best written dex's I've seen, almost everything is playable and balanced among itself very well. Look to the dex as opposed to a thread full of highest level tournament strategies, if unfluffy armies aren't your thing.

If you are going to ragequit DE because they aren't on Eldars's level of power, you probably should have done a bit more research to begin with as they have never been a major player.

I don't think it's unreasonable to see a thread called Dark Eldar tactics and assume it's about tactics for winning with Dark Eldar. If we were just talking about throwing some wracks into an Eldar list, then we'd just lump it in with the regular old Eldar tactics.

I don't think we should discount allies entirely, but I also think there's no reason a straight DE list can't play competitively.

To that end, coven lists are pretty rockin', still.

I've discovered that in the missions which use Tactical Objectives, Reavers are game-changing. Just dynamite. They can dominate the board almost every turn, and still inflict damage on the opponent while doing so.

I agree Jim, we can quite easily build a solo list. I would like to see more of it here as non-Eldar player and while all the posts about Eldar allies annoy me slightly, I understand thats what comes in a thread talking about competitive lists for a balanced army who has an OP battlebrother.

How would you go about building a coven list?

I don't have army builder, so I can't throw out army lists at the drop of a hat (with points values), but here's the bones of one I've used a few times.

Wracks, Haemonculus, Raider (Upgrade to taste. I prefer Liquifier gun; Liquifier Gun, Huskblade; and Night Shields plus Flicker Field, but it varies.) This whole unit can be duplicated two or three times.
Urien Rakarth, some uber-Grotesques, another Raider (again, upgrade to taste. I like a venom blade on my grots.)
Fortress of Redemption. Wracks in both silos, and another unit of wracks can be added to crew a battery of heavy bolters if you like. Don't bother with the tower upgrade, DO bother with the Krakstorm missiles.
One to three Ravagers. (I prefer the same upgrades at the raiders.)

Garnishes include a Talos Pain Engine (additional CCW and chain flails), or some Reavers (Cluster Caltrops).

All your units can use the building as a shield first turn. The Reavers focus on scoring, while everyone else focuses on taking out enemies. Since all raiders but Rakarth's are scoring, they can keep objectives for you while still providing some anti-armor fire.

The Ravagers, Rakarth's Grots, and the optional Talos do good anti-vehicle work, and since the Wracks will begin the game with Furious Charge (the ones not in the Fortress, anyway) they can bring down vehicles with rear armor 10 in a pinch. It should go without saying that Rakarth's first bonus token at the beginning of the game should go to his own unit, and any additional ones should go to the Wracks accompanying him to war.

I've played this list a couple of times, and it's won more than it's lost.

Nice sounds alright.

The idea of the Fortress in general is probably a good one. Had to read up on the rules as I never see it played.

I'm all for Heavy Bolter spammed, AP4 is nice. Is the 1 shot of S8 AP 3 large blast a turn really worth the 30 points + 30 points of wracks to man it though?

I can't find the rules for it in 7th, I'm just looking at my 6th book btw.

If you check the list at the top of the page that's a pure DE list I am using in a tournament this weekend, yesterday I played 3 won 2 (against 5 fmc nids and dakka dark angels) and I lost to a ETC Tau player so I'm not going to complain about that.

Got 2 more games to play today so we shall see how it goes.

Both winning games ended turn 5, Nids had 1 Mawloc left on 2 wounds and Dark Angels had 2 tactical marines left cowering behind a wrecked land raider.

DE can still cut it solo, it's just not a cakewalk.


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I'll do some specific solo builds for those who don't like allies as well.

As I play competitively almost exclusively (except when mates and beer is involved) I of course have to include allies.

For you guys I'll put some thing together.

 SHUPPET wrote:
I'm all for Heavy Bolter spammed, AP4 is nice. Is the 1 shot of S8 AP 3 large blast a turn really worth the 30 points + 30 points of wracks to man it though?

My opinion? Yes. The Wracks give you the ability to pick your target instead of having to shoot at the nearest enemy, and I can frequently negotiate my targets so that even a scatter will still net me some hits. The more threats I can bring to the table, the more I can dilute my enemy's target priority lists.

Is 1x S8 AP3 large blast really better than say the cost of 6 Shatterfield Missiles tho (random example)? I really just like to make my points count where I spend them, it seems like a costly upgrade for 60 pts. I mean its 3/5 the cost of another Ravager (obviously you already have 3) or 4 blasters. I agree saturating threats but I'm not sure hat Krakstorms work for us as well, being a largely aggressive glass cannon army I think thats 60 points of upgrades better spent on something more shooty.

If you see a lot of single target units, I would agree. I don't know your meta, obviously. Personally, I run into a lot of horde or mechanized armies. And against either a mosh pit OR an attack squadron, it can dish out some serious damage.

I think that if you wanted to go just with the frag missiles, that would be an option too. I think that I'd still buy some wracks to crew it (compare the cost of wrack crew to almost any other unit, and the other unit will always be more expensive, worse BS, or suck up a valuable FOC slot) so I can pick my targets. I know I LOVE to make sure the closest unit to a sentry weapon is a unit the sentry weapon can't hurt, and I'd hate to wind up the victim of that someday.

Beastmasters can be taken as single models can't they?