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Yes, but they're Beasts, so they can't get inside a building.

In addition, you'd be wasting a FA slot on a gun crew. The Wracks take up a far less coveted Troops selection.

I'd say troops are move coveted but fair point on the beasts.

Should be titled - Eldar 7th edition tactics. :(

Seriously, if you are a fluff monkey and want to play a pure DE list all the time start your own thread.

Allies are a part of the game so get used to it.

Plus Necrons also feature in the guide on the homepage. Should I add that in the title as well?

This thread is about how to use DE (usually as a primary detachment) in a competitive way.

Shingen wrote:


how to use DE (usually as a primary detachment) in a competitive way.

THAT sounds like it needs its own thread!

No it sounds like you do, if you have nothing useful to add stop being a keyboard warrior, trolling etc and jog on.

Yeah I checked out the other tactics threads and none of them are as ripe as this thread with non army specific choices. When reading the first posts of this thread it seems most of viable "tactics" being listed are "buy eldar".

Read this thread. Its more like how to ally with DE. Not a thread about DE tactics.

And seriously my opinion isn't any less worthy than yours. So please keep the nasty name calling to yourself!

Rainbows!

Pancakey wrote:
Yeah I checked out the other tactics threads and none of them are as ripe as this thread with non army specific choices. When reading the first posts of this thread it seems most of viable "tactics" being listed are "buy eldar".

Read this thread. Its more like how to ally with DE. Not a thread about DE tactics.

And seriously my opinion isn't any less worthy than yours. So please keep the nasty name calling to yourself!

Rainbows!

But your opinion IS both argumentative and off-topic. You've made your feelings known.

If you'd like to start a thread about pure Dark Eldar tactics, then by all means feel free. If you'd like to suggest some pure Dark Eldar lists, combinations, or tactical suggestions, then please do so. If you want, you can check out the Dark City website, since they have a much more Dark Eldar focus to their discussions.

If all you want to do is complain that we aren't discussing this topic the way you want us to, then you've successfully made that opinion known, and there's no further need to repeat it.

On the subject of moving along, I am interested to hear if anyone has used a WWP yet in 7th and brought Eldar through it and how it worked.

(Sorry Pancakey, I reference our plant loving / weird cousins again).

In particular I am interested to see viability of D-Scythes coming through (Battle Focus with Spiritseers turn 2 into someones face).

Also if anyone has tried anything with none standard fortifications, I have not started looking at those yet and the quad lascannon one has caught my eye for anti flyer work...

I've been dicking around with a WWP list. It features a Haemmy in a Bastion with an Escape Hatch. That combo enables the Haemmy to get further out than a vehicle would, and still drop the WWP.

Haven't tried it with Eldar yet, I've been mostly toying around with straight DE and DE/SM. (Although CWE are on my list to try.)

Care to explain how that works Jim?

Building deploys at the edge of your deployment zone. Escape hatch deploys 12 inches out from the building.

Haemmy comes out on the far side of the hatch, gets to move his 6" (so long as he winds up wholly within 6" of the hatch) and still drop the portal. Depending on what marker you use for your escape hatch, you're getting 18-20 inches outside of your deployment zone and still dropping the portal.

A Raider, on the other hand, can swivel for the extra pivot distance (say, 3"), move 6" and disembark the Haemmy, who can get another 6" and drop the portal. You're getting an extra 3-5 inches with the building (more if your group frowns on pivot-distance shenanigans).

The building, outfitted with a Void Shield (and Wracks to crew those bolters, of course!) is a little tougher than the Raider.

And weirdly about the same price. I'll have to have a look at that.

In theory you could deploy the bastion at an angle. You would leave yourself about 4" off the enemy which Talos' would salivate at.

Can MC's enter a building? I don't believe so.

Also I don't think you can really use angles to your advantage here as it still has to be fully within your DZ.

No it doesn't. You can place fortifications in your opponents DZ if you wanted to.

MC isn't in the building, the Haemo with the WWP is. He jumps out T1 and pops it.

Also don't forget the infiltrate rule on strategic warlord traits. That could cause a mess if your haemo is behind your opponents army.

Fortifications
Some pieces of scenery are called fortifications. These can be included in a player’s army or used as pieces of ‘neutral’ scenery controlled by neither side. If a fortification is taken as part of an army, then it is set up with the rest of the units in the army using the same deployment rules as the other models.

I think you are wrong on that one.

Ok I thought you were missing a step and putting the Talos straight in.


The big issue with putting a WWP too close to their DZ, (and the WWP in general) is movement rules.

A lot of the time they will have no problem bubble wrapping it, and guess what. Your Talos is now entering play from your table edge, turn 2 at best. In other words, complete waste of his points.
Jump units work better, but they often have the mobility to get there by then anyway and be able to assault afterwards if they hadn't come through the portal.
Don't put it far enough up the field and there is no point to deploying it at all.

I think it plays against what we do best, speedy transports and target saturation. I'm just not sold - I mean what are we actually bringing through the portal? Talos's are the obvious answer, and if anything goes awry they are the definiton of a large amount of wasted points (and critical FOC slots).

I think that Bastion thing is a good idea though, as it secures the WWP if you go second (at least, far more so than putting him in a Raider does). I wouldn't run a WWP without that and at least two Portals though, deployed midfield or a bit further (depending on opponents army composition) in opposite directions (i.e. left and right) to make bubblewraping the Portals a non-issue.

What else are we bringing through tho than Talos's, to make the points cost of a Bastion + two Webway Portals +two Haemy's that are obviously giving up first blood, translate into being worth the actual army value handicap?

It seems like almost everything we have has great mobility anyway with our Transports being not only fast but well worth their points in firepower as well. Massed Grotesques maybe? Since you can only fit 5 in a Raider?

I don't know, if we had more options that could abuse the WWP I'd be all for it. As I don't believe the WWP works for non-BB allies as it stands, I don't see it ever being worth it's points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
NOTE: Willing to be convinced otherwise though! It's a cool tactic and I would like to use it again

What do you guys think about just running a bunch of beast masters and khymeras with no farseer support. Two farseers on jet bikes with weapons is going to cost you about the same points as 20 khymera and 4 beast masters. Fortune only makes them 50% more survivable so doubling the numbers is better than fortune. Invisible against bs 4 more than doubles the khymera survivability but you can not guarantee that you get invisible or that it won't get denied so maybe double khymeras is just better on that behalf. As for killing power you need both misfortune and prescience to make the khymeras + farseers better than just the 2 beast packs.

2 beast packs would allow you to cover more of the board. Assault more unites earlier and would be less reliant on getting the right powers. Basically you end up with some slightly more fragile but more killy khorn dogs, which has never been bad.

My question would be what unites can take the assault from the beast pack and kill the beast pack? Will it outright kill the beast pack or will it just not die to the pack?

I think its underrated. Beast packs are excellent. And do a great job of denying the board.

T8 or AV 11 plus means beastpack are in trouble.

Unless of course you have rending.

That's why including flocks seems a good idea. Plus, only one of your beastpacks will have hit and run.

T8 isn't exactly a problem for DE.

Tanks however can be

That was in respect of the beastpack. They can't even wound t6 except for flocks

Shingen wrote:
That was in respect of the beastpack. They can't even wound t6 except for flocks

The kymera are str4, the beastmasters are str3. Both can wound T6. T7, only the kymera or beastmasters with FC can wound. T8 is just the rending.

Really not an issue almost ever. T can get shot up by possion, flocks have enough attacks to rend stuff down, and the pack usually has hit and run just incase.

I toyed around with the web way. No as much for reserves, as for the impassable terrain.

I ran 3, and it worked wonders at blocking the scoring land raiders.
Turn 1, haemonculi jumped into the hyjacked raider, leaving a pain token behind.
Turn 2, he disembarks and starts to jam up paths of the advance for you primitive races without skimmers.

-Matt

Just spotted something else interesting.

There is a strategic warlord trait that gives you -1 to steal the initiative rolls.

3+ rerollable steal with Coteaz might be much better now.

With a battleforged list you can roll twice on the chart.

 Exergy wrote:

Shingen wrote:
That was in respect of the beastpack. They can't even wound t6 except for flocks

The kymera are str4, the beastmasters are str3. Both can wound T6. T7, only the kymera or beastmasters with FC can wound. T8 is just the rending.
Really not an issue almost ever. T can get shot up by possion, flocks have enough attacks to rend stuff down, and the pack usually has hit and run just incase.

Am I the only one who buys Agonizers?

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

Shingen wrote:
That was in respect of the beastpack. They can't even wound t6 except for flocks

The kymera are str4, the beastmasters are str3. Both can wound T6. T7, only the kymera or beastmasters with FC can wound. T8 is just the rending.
Really not an issue almost ever. T can get shot up by possion, flocks have enough attacks to rend stuff down, and the pack usually has hit and run just incase.

Am I the only one who buys Agonizers?

Anymore? I just can't justify the points. When they were AP 2, sure. But since they don't pen 2+ armor anymore, I think I'd rather have a Venom Blade and score more wounds, and reallocate my 20 points elsewhere.

That being said, Agonizer equipped models are still in my case, in case there's suddenly an uptick in Gargantuan Monstrous Creatures in my local meta. (Not being Poisoned, they still wound on a 4+)

I take them on HQ sometimes but not on basic troops.

 Jimsolo wrote:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

Shingen wrote:
That was in respect of the beastpack. They can't even wound t6 except for flocks

The kymera are str4, the beastmasters are str3. Both can wound T6. T7, only the kymera or beastmasters with FC can wound. T8 is just the rending.
Really not an issue almost ever. T can get shot up by possion, flocks have enough attacks to rend stuff down, and the pack usually has hit and run just incase.

Am I the only one who buys Agonizers?

Anymore? I just can't justify the points. When they were AP 2, sure. But since they don't pen 2+ armor anymore, I think I'd rather have a Venom Blade and score more wounds, and reallocate my 20 points elsewhere.

That being said, Agonizer equipped models are still in my case, in case there's suddenly an uptick in Gargantuan Monstrous Creatures in my local meta. (Not being Poisoned, they still wound on a 4+)

yeah, Agonizers havent been in vogue for many years now. It's venom blade, husk blade or no blade.


Gargantuan creatures aside, my case if full of just about everything that looks cool. I just rarely open it these days.

So what do helions do? Are they supposed to get into combat or just fly around shooting things?