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Here's a nice little combo I plan to use this weekend for my Dark Eldar/Eldar allies.

1. Pick out the biggest, scariest unit(s), likely terminators, hopefully with a warlord in them. Have a warlock cast terrify on them (-3 LD).

2. Follow up with a haemonculus popping an archangel of pain from a venom. Ensure it's close enough to make a difference. There's a good chance said termies will fail on a 7, now they're at WS1, I1.

3. Bring in the warp spiders to monofilament them at S7 thanks to their low initiative, 6's resolved at AP1. Even better if you're using prescience or guide.

Yeah, I know it's not uber reliable -- but it's a total trollface move.

 Exergy wrote:

 lambsandlions wrote:
How important is objective secure to us? Trueborns seem better than warriors because they can bring mass special weapons. Blood brides may be on par with wyches if you use wyches mostly as a stall unit, but blood brides with a syren can do a lot of damage.

objective secured is awesome

also wyches are there to take hits in combat if you actually are bothering with combat. Otherwise they are there for their grenades and blood brides dont throw grenades any better than wyches.

Bloodbrides throw a grenade at 15 points cheaper than a wych does.
Wychers is 60 points for 5 with grenades.
Bloodbrides are 45 points for 3 with grenades.

If you're going unbound, I'd go with Bloodbrides.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

 lambsandlions wrote:
How important is objective secure to us? Trueborns seem better than warriors because they can bring mass special weapons. Blood brides may be on par with wyches if you use wyches mostly as a stall unit, but blood brides with a syren can do a lot of damage.

objective secured is awesome

also wyches are there to take hits in combat if you actually are bothering with combat. Otherwise they are there for their grenades and blood brides dont throw grenades any better than wyches.

Bloodbrides throw a grenade at 15 points cheaper than a wych does.
Wychers is 60 points for 5 with grenades.
Bloodbrides are 45 points for 3 with grenades.

If you're going unbound, I'd go with Bloodbrides.

I was thinking of throwing them in combat, or well placing them at the tracks of a tank and running away. 5 wyches get 5 grenades. 3 bloodbrides get 3 grenades

Except, that's 45pts for 3 grenades + 1 thrown, for an average of 2HP damage. (22.5pts per pt of damage)

Vs 60pts for 5 grenades + 1 thrown for an average of 3.2HP damage. (18.75pts per pt of damage)

Once you throw in more wounds, etc to live longer, it's just no contest really.

Especially being the reason Wyches are so good at anti tank is for that 60pts you can kill basically any non-superheavy in one turn.
The Bloodbrides would need 2, and wouldn't survive the first.

Best bet is a hekatrix with a blast pistol so you can hit it twice on the way in. More points again however.

 Ovion wrote:
Except, that's 45pts for 3 grenades + 1 thrown, for an average of 2HP damage. (22.5pts per pt of damage)

Vs 60pts for 5 grenades + 1 thrown for an average of 3.2HP damage. (18.75pts per pt of damage)

Once you throw in more wounds, etc to live longer, it's just no contest really.

Especially being the reason Wyches are so good at anti tank is for that 60pts you can kill basically any non-superheavy in one turn.
The Bloodbrides would need 2, and wouldn't survive the first.

Generally I see 5 wyches die anytime anything fires at them.
If unbound (which is where I say use them) you're getting 3 units of wyches or 4 units of bloodbrides.
Since I'm assuming that the opponent will be shooting at me, and that T3 6+ is really easy to kill, having more units is better.

But you are right, if you can magically place 5 wyches unmolested in base to base with any non-superheavy, it's over.

-Matt

I've been considering taking a couple of Haywire Wyches squads, but in the end I think that sticking to good ol' Kabbies will work out better for me.

Hey guys,

New to 7th.

Any one have any solid attempts with Necron allies?

Any good lists with DE paired with them?

Possibly add a detatchment with three fliers?

Necrons have very interesting applications as allies in quite a few armies. The obviousness of forcing Night fight as one such synergy for Dark Eldar should not be overlooked (3+ Jink as you barrel into the enemy? Yes please!) as long as you dont mind them getting the hairy eyeball from their so called allies.

I'm not losing my DE because my cover save is 4+ instead of 3+. I'm losing my DE because I'm getting hit with a lot of Ignore Cover shots.

So far, my best luck has been with the addition of a few bunkers. AV14 for 55 points is a pretty good deal. You're immune to Grav, and I'd give up the bunker to melta shots to have an assaultable enemy land that close.

even that does not stop flickerfields. Look. they're raiders. Surely you cant ask for more than their 3 HP can provide? But they are incredibly flexible when armed with Disintegrator cannons and then loaded with units that are anti tank. Oh yeah. Definitely.

All iM saying is in relation to using the Solar Pulse the round you wanna jail break..

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Was just wondering what are peoples view on the Dias of Destruction? Of course, i am not talking super competitively, but in my Meta i have been losing quite often to an Eldar player. To put it simply, it's because of his 2 Wave Serpents. I have the same problem with Tesla and Tau mass missiles, but they all have something in common. It's all strength 7 and aside from the odd Wraith cannon it seems to me in my Meta that is the most common strength, so i was thinking, what the heck, lets try Vect!

Vect in the Dias with 8 Haywire Wyches + Hek and a Shard net (For Wraithknight hunting) comes in at just under 600pts. What you have to do is compare the Dias to a Land Raider, Av 13 vs AV 14 but the AV 13 can jink, so similar survivability. Add that to Vects habit to murderize any 3+ save squad in the game by himself and we have a usable, if expensive unit. Vs mass strength 7, would this be an option?

I love the Dias... but, it's really only worth it if you need to:
a) using it as a gunboat (ie, load it up with trueborns+splintercannons) or...
b) using it to deliver scary assaulty units (ie, Incubis, etc...) <--- my favorite

I usually go the Incubis route as it murders anything in close combat.

Brom on TDC has developed a neat little hammer unit for DE

Fuegan
Urien
Haemie Crucible Liquifier
Uber Grots Aberration Flesh Gauntlet
Raider TGL

Obviusly the Grots are just there as ablative wounds for the most part - now this is a lot of eggs in one basket so it had better do some damage, lol. You are close to 750 pts here.
But consider Furious charging, FNP Crucible and ICs that are really hard to take out, a bit of split fire too.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Was just wondering what are peoples view on the Dias of Destruction? Of course, i am not talking super competitively, but in my Meta i have been losing quite often to an Eldar player. To put it simply, it's because of his 2 Wave Serpents. I have the same problem with Tesla and Tau mass missiles, but they all have something in common. It's all strength 7 and aside from the odd Wraith cannon it seems to me in my Meta that is the most common strength, so i was thinking, what the heck, lets try Vect!

Vect in the Dias with 8 Haywire Wyches + Hek and a Shard net (For Wraithknight hunting) comes in at just under 600pts. What you have to do is compare the Dias to a Land Raider, Av 13 vs AV 14 but the AV 13 can jink, so similar survivability. Add that to Vects habit to murderize any 3+ save squad in the game by himself and we have a usable, if expensive unit. Vs mass strength 7, would this be an option?

Everyone hates on the Dais, but (for now) it works so well with the army. It does the following:

1. provides GOOD armor to an otherwise paper-thin army
2. due to #1 above, tends to be a giant fire magnet, thus allowing all your other nasty business to shoot unimpeded
3. is a SOLID delivery mechanism for one of the absolute nastiest cc fighters in the game (Vect). How many Wraithknights do you have? Not anymore...
4. essentially provides a Ravager with transport capacity, so 3 more dark lances (though this is less important in 7th, as it's harder to one-shot the enemy vehicles)

I'm not talking out of my arse about the Dais, because I took Vect and the Dais in the two-front doubles at Adepticon this year, and only lost one game (and that was due to gak dice, though my opponent was pretty damn good too). I've also won two local 1850 tourneys with Vect in the Dais, along with Eldar allies.

I wouldnt use the Dais. But the Tantalus? Yessir! Its Forge World so therefore I refuse. But its there if you want an extremely useful alternative.

The Dais is probably the best assault Vehicle in the game. Use that how you will. As the above poster said, it works to some of our armies strengths, but also to some of it's weaknesses. It's points cost and the cost of the unit inside to JUSTIFY it's points cost really hurts your MSU saturation. I think taking it requires a certain build around it. What that build is I'm not sure, but spamming paperthin MSU beside it might not achieve that critical mass of units that you need to assure SOME get their damage through. Vect and posse will hit hard - but not hard enough to win the game. Deepstriking the Dias is important, because tanky fire magnet or not if they kill it turn 1, they also deny a bunch of points from the CC unit. That many points probably isn't worth putting the power in your opponents hands with.

The tantalus is good indeed but the dias has potential also. As for killing it - it can now take nightshields it can jink. Not so easy it kill turn one. I used the dias a lot in 6ed. I plan on trying it out again in 7ed as it is even better now. And I have yet to DS a dias. It is amusing that you can get first hand reports on its effectiveness in a game and still people fail to se the potential there. Yep it is 100 more points than a rav. I know. But it is AV13 and the best Vect delivery (who can and will win you some games) in the DE arsenal.

Yeah I would never deep strike the Dais. One of the reasons you take Vect is to seize the initiative, for an Alpha Strike. I wouldn't Alpha strike with 550-ish points minimum in reserve.

why not? Its an obvious move.

Well then don't, hope those 3 lances are worth risking having your entire investment of Vect and crew denied by seeing the Dais popped


Where it's completely safe to deploy, obviously, deploy. Otherwise I think having to walk that slow ass 6" Deathstar across the board will hurt you much more than missing the "alpha" of a single Ravagers worth of firepower, just because you feel it's necessary to capitalise on a possible seize roll, which isn't actually the case even if the Seize roll was reliable.

Well it is if you are building a list around it. Yes. Depends on your battle plan though. The assumption that you will lose your dias turn one ... well. I would think you hide it, jink it, etc. without too much of a problem. And likely you are going fiorst as well - Vect.

There is no assumption - it's up to you to make the call. Factor in Jink and whatever else is relevant, and ask yourself - is it plausible that I will lose it before bringing my Deathstar over the other side if the field. If the answer is yes, which it often enough would be for me thinking about some of my regular opponents - then Deepstrike the Dias. No assumption on anything is being made.

Aside from that, making silly gameplay decisions because your list is "built around the chance to seize the initiative and alpha strike" is no justification, it just means your entire strategy is silly and somehow dependant on a single roll that is just as likely to go against you?

Actually I do not make those type of game play decisions. I have not set up my list to alpha strike at all. I don't rely on going first either. But I am calculating the odds of both not going first and losing my dias turn one (and I have yet to lose it turn one, btw). I do rely a bit on nightshields and jink though which are givens and hope for LoS blocking terrain and do cover my dias with a raider/ravager as well. Now assuming things did go horribly wrong i'm still probably saving two or three ravs/raiders and setting up my second hammer for a charge. If things go well Vect charges turn two. I see it as an acceptable risk.

Here is the thing. I play a dual hammer list. I have Vect /Dias and Grotstar coming at you. There are seven skimmers on the table. I do not use an autarch either and have no reserve manipulation. So I want multiple targets on the table. I certainly do not want my hammers in reserve.

The only units I consider reserving are myb two WJB squads but in maelstorm I might even play them on the table turn one depending on terrain and opponent.

Now if I am lucky enough to seize or win first turn and if I think there is a unit I can take out for first blood I might go for it if it does not expose me too much. I do expect to lose a few skimmers early - we are DE and are skimmers are paper thin.

So am not really sure why you want to keep your best unit in reserve and then risk a DS it has risks too, no?). I might be sitting in reserve till tuen four and I might mishap on arrival. I never did find a Duke list appealing - I think he is a trap and confines you to play a certain style.

That said - if you feel DSing skimmers is the way to go then do it. It would not be my first choice very often.

Losing the Dais turn 1 is fine. Two questions matter. How much enemy resources did it absorb and did it get vect there. Thats how you determine if its worth it...or it isnt.

Lets not act like the death of our stagecoach means ultimate defeat!

If your going to take the dais put wraithblades or fire dragons in it, it's a bit of a waste otherwise.

 Jancoran wrote:
Losing the Dais turn 1 is fine. Two questions matter. How much enemy resources did it absorb and did it get vect there. Thats how you determine if its worth it...or it isnt.

Lets not act like the death of our stagecoach means ultimate defeat!

Wow. Let's not act as if there aren't armies out there who have no trouble killing a Diaa turn 1. Any Marines with a decent amount of Grav for starters.

To immesiately deny probably around 300 points of models from assault if they can do it at a decent range, as well as the loss of the Dias itself, well you may just be left with a 1000 pt army in a 1500 pt game. And all they've fired so far is the Centurions. Losing it before it gets in position will likely be an auto-lose, just to varying degrees, unless your opponent is brought nothing but AT, and it took his entire army to bring it down.


Just a light example, fact is the situation does exist and taking Retrofire Jets for like 10 pts is definitely wise


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Shingen wrote:
If your going to take the dais put wraithblades or fire dragons in it, it's a bit of a waste otherwise.

Being that Wraithblades are bulky, and minimum squad size is 5, I don't know if this works. Can you kick Vect out? Still a bad idea.

cant modify the Dais.

Yes you can. They removed the restriction from the FAQ so you can add upgrades as per the Raider.

AFAIK, the only bit of rules available as far as upgrading the Dais is concerned is currently the text in Codex telling us it's a special kind of Raider. If the explicit restriction is no longer anywhere, why would we adhere to a non-existent rule? Give it a Flickerfield and watch the opponents cry.

Btw, I'm a bit intrigued by the Night Shields vs. Flickerfield debate (on Raiders). Isn't it better to give them Night Shields to reduce enemy's range and then Jink when necessary for a 4+ cover instead of a 5++? Night Shields have been working wonders for me so far. What would be the instances when a Flickerfield is better?

I always take flickerfields and stay in cover for a better save. You can take the flickerfield save against failed dangerous terrain tests so you shouldn't need to jink really.

The codex states it is a special Raider with 3 dark lances and armor 13 but is otherwise treated "exactly" like a raider. Raiders can take upgrades and therefore so can the dais.


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Plus ff is a big fingers up to tau and wave serpents which is always nice.