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Target wrote:
How many games are we looking at for the 40k Classic, is it a one day event or a two day similar to championships?

Apologies if I missed it, and thanks for the update!

It is a three round event on Thursday only.

Where did you guys get rooms? Frontlinegaming dudes having trouble finding a decent hotel.. Embassy have rooms?

We are working on a 3rd overflow hotel option as I type. Also, you can contact the Marriott Renaissance and be placed on a wait list.

fantastic! Yeah I did the wait list thing.. haven't heard back from anyone.

@iNcontrol - They are contacting people on the list as rooms open up in the block.

As mentioned, we have filled both the convention hotel and alternate hotel blocks. We have a number of other hotels in the area and we are working to secure additional stay options prior to registration going live. Should have an update shortly.

Is Adepticon really planning on using Malestrom of War for all the missions in the Championships? Is there a reason for this? Even if you love those types of missions, they are only half of what is in the book.

I am very hesitant to travel all the way to Adepticon and play in a tournament where winning ever game is dependent on what cards I draw.

 extrenm(54) wrote:
Is Adepticon really planning on using Malestrom of War for all the missions in the Championships? Is there a reason for this? Even if you love those types of missions, they are only half of what is in the book.

I am very hesitant to travel all the way to Adepticon and play in a tournament where winning ever game is dependent on what cards I draw.

I believe the plan is to have an even split between their modified maelstrom missions and those equivilant to the standard eternal war missions, so you get 50/50 of each.

Adepticon has always been able to provide a good mix of things as well as pretty decent scenerios. Ask around if you havent been yourself to see that its been a quality tournment over the years.

 extrenm(54) wrote:
Is Adepticon really planning on using Malestrom of War for all the missions in the Championships? Is there a reason for this? Even if you love those types of missions, they are only half of what is in the book.

I am very hesitant to travel all the way to Adepticon and play in a tournament where winning ever game is dependent on what cards I draw.

From the original post, red for clarity:

This weekend “GameTown” in New Berlin, WI hosted the first Warhammer 40K Championship primer! The goal of the event was to put the AdeptiCon 2015 Warhammer 40K Tactical Objectives and some sample Maelstrom missions through their paces. The Warhammer 40K Championship and other events will likely utilize a mixture of Maelstrom and Traditional objective missions, but this event focused exclusively on testing the Maelstrom missions. 16 players slugged it out over three rounds and at the end of the day, Tim Schmidt dealt the killing strike. He claimed victory and a free Weekend Badge to AdeptiCon 2015!

We are also producing a custom Tactical Objectives deck for the convention which will be used in some, but not all, of the games. A link to those is in the original post.

It is all looking awesome! I am so happy that we jumped on the hotel reservations!

Still not understanding why the Transcendent C'tan is being excluded from the champs now that there is an event for people wishing to play without allies, LoW etc. feast of Blades showed us that the T. C'tan couldn't be that good since no one took it, and LoW costing near 1000 points don't auto win games and can be countered.

How many people showed up to the champs compared to last year? That might answer your question

 NecronLord3 wrote:
Still not understanding why the Transcendent C'tan is being excluded from the champs now that there is an event for people wishing to play without allies, LoW etc. feast of Blades showed us that the T. C'tan couldn't be that good since no one took it, and LoW costing near 1000 points don't auto win games and can be countered.

C'Tan not showing up says nothing about its power level. Most people don't play LOW and as such don't own one, and may not buy one for an event, nor do all people play crons. So for a mid sized event, it is not clear that the reason it did not show up being that it is not powerful. Reports from the NOVA team event all seem to indicate it is super powerful, when it is actually used.

The Transcendent C'Tan was used in the 50+ person NOVA Narrative (which included numerous highly competitive players // pairings based upon competitive level, so the C'Tan was paired off against things like Revenants and other super heavies). Attendees widely hated it, and frankly superheavies / gargantuans in general. Nobody wanted to play against it, and the player who brought it ended up doing intentionally silly things with it to try and keep his games more enjoyable.

The Transcendent C'Tan was used in the 40 person Trios event (Which includes standard 1v1 games and paired 2v2 games ... the C'tan only was allowed / legally workable in the 1v1s, so they were basically standard tournament games with competitive players), and was widely hated again. In several games, it solo'ed 2000 point armies by itself.

The C'Tan was legal in the 32-person (is that right?) Feast of Blades and didn't win, but I have no other information than that. I don't even know if someone took it. There are a probably plenty of other similar sized, larger, and smaller events to those listed here where it's been used .... would be good to hear what the feedback was from those.

It's an extremely unpleasant model to deal with on the tableteop, and goes beyond something like Adamantine Lance or a Revenant ... it really is quite capable of tabling entire armies without taking any damage, in a very big hurry. I give kudos to AdeptiCon for disallowing it, and don't plan on allowing it in anything at NOVA next year after 90+ players more or less said "screw that stupid thing, nobody had any fun with it."

Edit -

Whether or not a model wins a tournament is not really the relevant point. The question is more how does a certain model / formation / unit style / whatever do tournament-wide, and what's the response from people in playing against it. Tony K won NOVA Open's GT this year with a serpent-heavy list ... but didn't run into several hard counters, and in the final when he DID run into an almost auto-win hard counter, his opponent failed to get any of the psychic powers he needed on bunches of rolls. Not a knock on Tony, but the point is that just because a certain list doesn't "win" an event (big or small) doesn't mean the list is bad, so it's a rather valueless data point. It's better to hear what the feedback tournament-wide is on a controversial unit. This is more valuable to a convention like AdeptiCon (IMO of course) than someone theoryhammering about how to counter a unit or pointing out that it didn't win a GT.

Indeed, if your army has a way to deal with the c'tan its not too bad.

The problem is if you dont have that answer it WILL not be fun and will wreck your day.

This is not about the model, this is about people attending having a fun time and not seeing that one model and just hating it.

 Leth wrote:
Indeed, if your army has a way to deal with the c'tan its not too bad.

The problem is if you dont have that answer it WILL not be fun and will wreck your day.

This is not about the model, this is about people attending having a fun time and not seeing that one model and just hating it.

I have problems with flyer armies. My army doesn't have a good flyer of it's own, and no in built AA. Flyers should be banned because since I don't have an answer to them it will not be fun and will wreck my day.

Not that I have ever played against the T-C'tan, but the argument for banning something is a bit underwhelming in my opinion. Now it might be broken, but so are serpent shields, and a hundred other things in this game.

In my opinion, all LoW should be allowed, or banned, no half measures. An all Knights army is a bit ruff, and is not fun to play against, is that banned? Sure it has a hard counter of flyers, but then it isn't fun for the Knight player. Where is the line for "fun" for the players drawn?

I think like a competative player and see them as an interesting challenge. However I would argue most attendies are just looking to have a good time and play games against new people. The prizes are insignificant compared to the cost to attend. For the cost of a lot of GT'sSo its more about the social experience and the gaming.

Well MVbrant posted his numbers above and a majority of those people did not enjoy seeing those things, not seeing the same unanimous dislike for other things. That people do not have significant problems with most of them, in fact many of them are over pointed. This is not a matter of black and white. They are working within the grey and trying to bring in the most units and diversity while also keeping the most people happy.

But hey, if YOU want to invest the money into and take the risks that these TO's are taking financially then feel free to demand your rules. Until then I let the TO's TO and, while offering suggestions, I don't pretend that my way is right nor do I give them crap for their decisions. If I dont like it, I dont attend. However very rarely is the comp restrictions enough to make me not go. I might not like it because I don't get to bring a specific toy, but I can still make a list quite easily that will do just as well.

This is an event allowing 6+ Knight Titans (points allowing), Revenant Titan, all favors of Baneblades, Tyranid MCs, Daemon MCs, there is plenty of not fun games to be had by all, or a lot of fun of the rules are allowed as is, minis unbound BS. The championships are meant to showcase the best lists available without a ban list. If you don't want to play that game, there are other events available. Allowing the C'tan in a Titan centric event, will not making it a valid option. In the champs he is. None of these ridiculous units have any place in the classic or team tournament.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
The championships are meant to showcase the best lists available without a ban list.

I'm almost certain the TOs would not agree with you on the purpose of the championships.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
If you don't want to play that game, there are other events available.

If you don't like the champs, there are other events for you.


No event is 100% of what anyone wants. TOs have to create a slate of events (given their very finite resources) that is the most appealing to the most people. The weight of the evidence for that comes down hard against the C'tan in virtually any format.

It is allowed in a Titan only event, where the C'tan is the little fish in a GC/Superheavy pond. That is not a game of 40k.

The Transcendent C'Tan basically annihilates most titans. Witnessed firsthand in repeated C'Tan vs. Revenant / etc. fights at NOVA.

Um no. In a Titan only event where it is being shot with multiple D. Weapon blasts, it takes 1 roll of a six and the C'tan is deleted from the game, with no saves and no additional army to back it up. In a game of 40k C'tan delete Knight Titans but you have multiples and the rest of your army to win you the game or just take the hard counters that kill C'tan like Devestators, drop pod melta, webway insertion squads, and thunder wolf Calvary. Revenant vs. C'tan is a fair fight. Revenant without C'tan is a lot of butt hurt opponents.

 NecronLord3 wrote:
The championships are meant to showcase the best lists available without a ban list.

NecronLord - that is your opinion. The championships over the years has had many limits (primarily FW produced items). This another evolution.

GW has given organizers an open book. Each event will have different "bans" unless an event basically runs Exterminatus. As others have alluded to, there are financial considerations for the convention where you do not take a flag ship event and cripple attendance potential by making it "not fun". The majority opinion out there is the T-C'tan is "not fun". Ruining the experience for this or future years over one model at this point is not worth the risk. AdeptiCon is in an unique position to allow the 40K Exterminatus, Championships or Throwback events to grow as player demand indicates. If Exterminatus proves to be the way everyone wants, the event will naturally grow. If it is not, then the event will find it's niche and be a stable contributor to the offerings or be replaced.

I point you to an article that provides a solid basis for handling bans:

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/what-should-be-banned

You should really read in depth the section titled The Two Excellent Examples of “Super Turbo”.

Great example to give. Now if it was equally applied to every other example in 40k where a unit is 10 times better than anything else in the game, that would be acceptable. How about the Eldar codex being banned because it is 10 times better than any other codex? Or Imperial knights since an allied Knight is included in most tournament top army lists? The C'tan is very beatable if players know what to expect. However Necrons are hard pressed to beat codexes like Eldar, Tau and 5+ Imp. Knights when handicapped by not allowing the C'tan.

Tournament attendance being low is not an argument against the C'tan as attendance is equally low at events allowing LoW as those not allowing it. 7th edition and all the available shenanigans plus TO's running the events is making attendance low, not the threat of one unit in the game.

Necron do not struggle with eldar and knights. They're broadly considered one of the hardest natural counters to knights and serpents. So ...

Accurate - Necrons are considered currently one of the top codices for tournament play, primarily because their popular build is a fairly hard counter to most of the other top armies.

Typical tournament necron build:
3-4 scythes
Multiple haywire teks
CCBs

Lists diverge from here and either bulk up on the initial offerings + annihilation barges, or take scarabs and tomb spyders.

Hard counter to knights:
-Fliers (scythes)
-Haywire teks

Eldar (which in a tournament list is wave serpents + knights)
-Fliers
-Haywire teks
-CCBs

Tau
-CCBs alone take care of this match, sadly


The T'Ctan is a joke, let it go. It's one of the worst examples of rules writing in the history of 40k.

bs. Tau crush necrons. It's their worst matchup. Tau wreck CCB especially when TOs won't let it use it's 3++ save and IC status.

How many Necron players have won a major GT in 7th edition? How about made top 3? Top 5? Best I know of was 7th place. Wave serpent spam and multiple Knight armies are not beaten by Necrons. At best Necrons allie well with some one and do okay. They will not be competing at all when Revenent Titans, Bane blades, and GCs are allowed unless the new codex is a miracle and not a nerf like every other 7th edition book.

How many Tau players have won a seventh edition GT? I trust the decision making by the Adepticon staff... They have a really good track record.

Happy this is going to be my 5th adepticon in a row. Every year the TO's do make it fun and worth coming back.

Per the on going debate towards T C'tan, I played at feast, there wasn't one played outta 2-3 total Cron players. It wasn't the fact that it wasn't brought, it was the fact that there weren't more cron players or players all together. This year was 16 tables, so 32 people. That what roughly the average gaming con gets here in Feb, and sometimes in September. Prior 2 years its been at least 100 people, to which i would be certain someone would have brought one. Maybe the Cron players this year were being kind enough to not be that douchebag who shows up with something that a lot of armies struggle with regardless of it has a good counter to it. Might have been because qualifiers didn't allow LoW and Finals did. Good players know when something is overpowered and have been speaking up about it since its release, Good TO's agree with those players. Its not a minority that dislike it, its a pretty big majority. If people want to play against it, they will play like Sparks said in a form of Exterminatus where everything goes.

I've played Crons and have beaten Serpent spam and Tau. I've done it against what I feel are damn good players and all without the Tran C'tan. I knew how to work terrain to my benefit and whatnot to beat both. Not to be rude, but the way you claim Crons can't compete against Eldar and Tau and Knights, is coming off as you don't know how to play Crons or at least use them to what potential they have. Hell, someone brought a Warhound to FoB, played against one of the cron players and had it knocked down to 2 hullpoints thanks to 2 outflanking Ghostarks.

I know how to play them fine, I've played Necrons for 13 years. Necrons have an uphill battle against Tau. The only way you an outflank ghost arks is a lucky warlord trait roll. That's luck, not strategy. The fact is going against the proposed allowed LoW Necrons aren't going to be able to compete when the best we have is a Tesseract Vault. Or we will be relegated to an Ally choice.

Every army is going to be able to bring its best, except Necrons. Revenant Titans and Imperial Knights will dominate the event.