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 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
So the latest update-

They can't release names of sculptors due to IP issues.

Really? Is that normal? I want to post something about that but I'm not sure how to do it without being too snarky.

Lars already confirmed he is one of the sculptors

Other two part time sculptors... maybe don't exist or already quit.

Those other two sculptors were probably anti-feminist conmen who turned in poor work, dropped a deuce on Lars' desk (which he promptly sculpted into a Sea Bishop), violated Dina's lemon-meringue pie and ran away with all the money in huge sacks with dollar signs on them.

Or don't exist.

Either way...

 Alex C wrote:
Those other two sculptors were probably anti-feminist conmen who turned in poor work, dropped a deuce on Lars' desk (which he promptly sculpted into a Sea Bishop), violated Dina's lemon-meringue pie and ran away with all the money in huge sacks with dollar signs on them.

Or don't exist.

Either way...

"anti-feminist conmen" too sweet

Wow - this is getting more and more Mandlebaum'esqe with every little twist and turn.

I know in all likelihood it isn't up as he doesn't know how to operate a spell check but boy, this is surer weird.

Darn, I can't quote when posting from phone...

I see they seem to be taking the classic "baffle them with bullgak" approach by citing IP issues. No one except IP lawyers/specialists will ever be able to undermine that argument. Which is exactly why they are making it. They are dodging being able to provide a response... badly, but any attempt to argue will just get twistef into a black hole of pointless confusion. Which gets them what they want: not answering. Ugh.

Edit- correct a typo.

At this point I recommend everyone contact their credit card companies and start the process of a charge back.

"Creator Dina Andrews Walker 4 days ago

Looks like I am sculpting the Kelpie tomorrow morning. one of our freelancers sent in a sea wolf sculpt, as well. Batteries died on the Fuji (why did they use AA batteries?), so I need to run to the store and get another pack."

Why hasn't any backer asked what happened to Kelpie and sea wolf?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 inquisitorlewis wrote:
At this point I recommend everyone contact their credit card companies and start the process of a charge back.

Probably the best thing to do for now

" All future Updates will be@ http://www.adwgames.com/IAM_update.html
10 comments

Important Notice:

As of today, all future communication re: this project will be posted on

http://www.adwgames.com/IAM_update.html"

Is this even legal?

Who knows?

But it is certainly a stupid move, and appears to be quite shady...

Nah. The creators weren't sure how often they should post updates in the Updates messages, vs. the Comments, a common problem in KS. Post too often in the Updates, and some backers get upset. Post info in the Comments, and the other backers get upset. Jerks.

So ADW puts up a blog. I actually think that's a good idea, although it does put control in ADW's hands. (KS Commens and Updates cannot be deleted, or something like that.) I do think ADW is trying to put out good miniatures.

I don't think they'll succeed, but they're trying.

I'm struggling to see how this is a good idea, but...OK?

 Goblini wrote:
" All future Updates will be@ http://www.adwgames.com/IAM_update.html
10 comments

Important Notice:

As of today, all future communication re: this project will be posted on

http://www.adwgames.com/IAM_update.html"

Is this even legal?

Your "legal" comment made me LOL... unfortunately I don't think there is any legal requirement, as in criminal. But there may be a KS TOS requirement. Is it rude? Is it discourteous? I think so. Only those with a very strong need to control discussion will make it so they can delete anything counter-message.

So this update is very interesting. I've been pondering it since it posted, and realized:

#1 with all the "only idiots can't fulfill minis kickstarters" (paraphrased) bluster, how many updates do they need?

#2 the sole reason to do this is to be able to delete, I mean, control, I mean, moderate the tone of discussions regarding the project. I recall a post from one of the project creators, in the kickstarter comments, about how they wished they could moderate or edit the discussion. I lol'd at the time, but now, refusal to engage anywhere but where they can control it? They've tried before ("legitimate" issues addressed via KS PM), and failed... so now this. They must be realizing that it is almost half-way through September* and gak may be about to hit the fan.

I suggest all backers continue to post comments / questions on the kickstarter page, because stuff doesn't "disappear" from there... And it seems people are commenting, a lot. Good.

*ETA - fulfillment is September, 2014, and they have been adamant that all is on time...

Dammit, can't get a refund on my visa due to it being past 60 days.

I'm stuck, they got my money.

Blech.

I asked about the sea wolf and kelpie.

Maybe I can get myself kicked out of their campaign if I get super obnoxious.

Saw plenty of people have that happen to them during the Guardian Chronicles debacle.

It does seem to be all about 'control' and having the ability to restrict conversation to 'approved' areas and to delete any comments that might expose some of the things that seem to be going on here...

"Moving forward, no one from ADW will be answering this comment board."

Okay, ignore what I previously said.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Dammit, can't get a refund on my visa due to it being past 60 days.

I'm stuck, they got my money.

Blech.

I asked about the sea wolf and kelpie.

Maybe I can get myself kicked out of their campaign if I get super obnoxious.

Saw plenty of people have that happen to them during the Guardian Chronicles debacle.

Can you contact Amazon and explain this situation and hopefully get your refund?




Automatically Appended Next Post:
You know, you can still report IAM KS and Sea Monster KS on Kickstarter site.

I didn't think of contacting Amazon.

Will try that.

Krampus on boardgamegeek said:
The only way to get your money back is either from an honest Project Creator , or dispute the charge with Amazon Payments.

And disputing a charge is not grounds for banning you from Amazon Payments or Kickstarter.

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/953444/how-get-your-money-back-bad-kickstarter-project


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Let other backers who want their refund know if it goes through.

This went sideways in a hurry.

You may also be able to dispute the charges via Credit Card company if any of you used that. I know that doesn't help with paypal, but most CC companies are glad to help.

Yeah, this went down faster than I thought. If people act now, they should still be able to get their money back from the Sea Monster campaign, shouldn't they? I don't think moving their communication away from KS to their website (where people can't comment as of now, and even if they could ADW could delete) can be seen as anything else than them slowly backing away with the money.

And what utter bs they are pulling! We are getting flooded with emails demanding that we stop updating, it's just that the enormous silent majority of people with this opinion never comment on KS... Yeah right.

More refund info from BGG: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/976236/would-doing-charge-back-risk-our-kickstarter-accou

Oh, and read the "Yes, but what does THIS mean for Up Front?" thread on the Up Front forum, the same forum where that thread is from. Bring popcorn.

I've been following this since day 1 [and if you've read the Reaper threads then you've probably seen me posting there]

But I registered just to add something else to the excellent research you have going here, something to prove that the Lars you discovered and this Lars are most likely the same person

if you visit this page of their website: http://adwgames.com/doggerland.html you will see a breakdown of Families...including the Sunderflyrr Family

Which matches the Lars Sunderflyrr listed as a VP in one of those companies that were dug up. No Island Media, I think?

Anyways, thought I'd share, since it lends weight that this is all connected after all

I suggest that everyone go together and FLOOD Amazon with complaints and charge backs.

Is it their latest campaign they've said they'll no longer update on the KS page, or the prior one? If it's the latest, KS won't have released the funds yet and might not like that if it gets pointed out to them...

 RiTides wrote:
Is it their latest campaign they've said they'll no longer update on the KS page, or the prior one? If it's the latest, KS won't have released the funds yet and might not like that if it gets pointed out to them...

If they've had an Amazon Payments account for 6+ months, they get the money right away.

No way for us to know that though.

As if any more evidence was needed to see this for the complete and utter scam that it is...

It would be hilarious but for the hundreds of gamers who are victim to it.

I pray everyone gets their money back and these leeches see jail time.

 Gymnogyps wrote:
Darn, I can't quote when posting from phone...

I see they seem to be taking the classic "baffle them with bullgak" approach by citing IP issues. No one except IP lawyers/specialists will ever be able to undermine that argument. Which is exactly why they are making it. They are dodging being able to provide a response... badly, but any attempt to argue will just get twistef into a black hole of pointless confusion. Which gets them what they want: not answering. Ugh.

Edit- correct a typo.

Not a lawyer of any type but let me go ahead and undermine that for you: Unless they are claiming that they created their sculptors and their names, this is bs. They may have some contractual agreement preventing them from naming their sculptors, but it has feth all to do with IP.

~Eric

 Sirithiliel wrote:
I've been following this since day 1 [and if you've read the Reaper threads then you've probably seen me posting there]

But I registered just to add something else to the excellent research you have going here, something to prove that the Lars you discovered and this Lars are most likely the same person

if you visit this page of their website: http://adwgames.com/doggerland.html you will see a breakdown of Families...including the Sunderflyrr Family
Which matches the Lars Sunderflyrr listed as a VP in one of those companies that were dug up. No Island Media, I think?

Anyways, thought I'd share, since it lends weight that this is all connected after all

Nice to see you here Sirithiliel! And a nice little fund there: the Sunderflyrr connection...

Amazon told me I wasn't within the time frame either. Their buyer dispute covers it if its within 30 days.

Lame.

There's got to be some sort of recourse we're overlooking.

 inquisitorlewis wrote:
I suggest that everyone go together and FLOOD Amazon with complaints and charge backs.

I believe in democracy. If fair number of people flood Amazon and Kickstarter, They might care enough to do something about this.
Backers should team up and bring this issue to higher ups.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Trodax wrote:

 Sirithiliel wrote:
I've been following this since day 1 [and if you've read the Reaper threads then you've probably seen me posting there]

But I registered just to add something else to the excellent research you have going here, something to prove that the Lars you discovered and this Lars are most likely the same person

if you visit this page of their website: http://adwgames.com/doggerland.html you will see a breakdown of Families...including the Sunderflyrr Family
Which matches the Lars Sunderflyrr listed as a VP in one of those companies that were dug up. No Island Media, I think?

Anyways, thought I'd share, since it lends weight that this is all connected after all

Nice to see you here Sirithiliel! And a nice little fund there: the Sunderflyrr connection...

Nice one!