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 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 kinratha wrote:

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 kinratha wrote:

Since the return of Krieg to the Imperial fold however, DK regiments have been involved in just about every major Imperial war in the last thousand years.

The fact that the DKoK was in every major war in the last thousand years doesn't mean that they're good, it means there's a lot of them to spread around. Guard aren't chosen on quality, they're chosen on quantity.

But, as the Russians proved in WW2 Quantity is a Quality on it's own.

And was Russia initially successful against a strong Germany with elite forces? No, they were getting obliterated until the West started pushing down on them.

They succeed in Stalin the Germans though. which gave time for the West to put presser on the Western front.

Death Korps of Krieg, famed for: Siege Warfare, Trench Warfare, Stoicism, Stalling Until Better Forces Come Along
Doesn't say a lot for them does it?

That's how most SM stories involving the IG go simply for the sake of the story. That said, this is a somewhat disingenuous way to portray the Siege of Vraks, many Krieg regiments were diverted to other warzones (in large part because of Inquisitorial meddling) and the threats at the end of the campaign were neither present nor anticipated when the DKoK were originally deployed. When you have the greatest of Khorne's bloodthirsters appear on the battlefield, that's not an issue for the Imperial Guard, nor the Space Marines, it's something for the Inquisition and the Grey Knights.

 BrotherOfBone wrote:

 kinratha wrote:

Since the return of Krieg to the Imperial fold however, DK regiments have been involved in just about every major Imperial war in the last thousand years.

The fact that the DKoK was in every major war in the last thousand years doesn't mean that they're good, it means there's a lot of them to spread around. Guard aren't chosen on quality, they're chosen on quantity.

But, as the Russians proved in WW2 Quantity is a Quality on it's own.

And was Russia initially successful against a strong Germany with elite forces? No, they were getting obliterated until the West started pushing down on them.

Your knowledge of the second world war is woefully bad.

The Wehrmacht was broken at Stalingrad and Kursk, long before the allies were in Europe in force (aside from Italy where they were well contained and didn't break out until the other fronts had pushed into Germany already), they were in full scale retreat after that. By the time of the Normany landings the Germans were irreversibly in retreat on the Eastern Front, and Operation Bagration and subsequent push to Warsaw, which commenced just a bit after the Normandy landings, annihilated the center of the German lines, inflicting greater casualties, logistical damage, and territory loss than the Normandy campaign did.

The first forces across the German border were not the western allies, but Red Army troops. It was not the western allies that took Berlin, it was the Red Army.

~75% of all German casualties were sustained on the Eastern Front. If you look at the ground forces alone, this is almost 90%.

The Wehrmacht was broken at Stalingrad and Kursk, long before the allies were in Europe in force (aside from Italy where they were well contained and didn't break out until the other fronts had pushed into Germany already), they were in full scale retreat after that. By the time of the Normany landings the Germans were irreversibly in retreat on the Eastern Front, and Operation Bagration and subsequent push to Warsaw, which commenced just a bit after the Normandy landings, annihilated the center of the German lines, inflicting greater casualties, logistical damage, and territory loss than the Normandy campaign did.

The first forces across the German border were not the western allies, but Red Army troops. It was not the western allies that took Berlin, it was the Red Army.

~75% of all German casualties were sustained on the Eastern Front. If you look at the ground forces alone, this is almost 90%.

Oh thank you. Someone who actually knows what he's talking about.

But, before this thread gets derailed into a WW2 argument. I'd like to add that if it came down to it , No single country at the time could of beaten German on it's own.

Now, back to 40k. What were we arguing about again? Something about a fantasy army is dumb because it's not realistic?

This is a game where imagination rules right?

 Void__Dragon wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

You mean like the successful Dark Angels who lost 20% of their entire chapter just trying to seize a space port?

And have contributed far more greatly to far more important battles across the galaxy than the Death Korps, yes.

Does “capturing and torturing some marines in a black armor that are TOTALLY NOT dark angels” count as “contributing greatly to an important battle”?

 Vaktathi wrote:

if you're just looking at Vraks? Sure. Vraks wasn't supposed to be the galaxy's greatest battle, it never pretended to be anything other than one of any uncountable number of small wars the Imperium is always fighting. It also wasn't the only place the DKoK was fighting however. That said, the DA's have been around 10x as long as the DKoK has, 1500 years previous to the current timeline, Krieg was a much different place and its IG regiments were completely different.

Since the return of Krieg to the Imperial fold however, DK regiments have been involved in just about every major Imperial war in the last thousand years.

I'm seeing a lot of justifications for Dark Angels being more successful than the DKoK but all that really tells me is that they were more successful than the DKoK.

That they have been around for far longer means nothing to the conclusion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Does “capturing and torturing some marines in a black armor that are TOTALLY NOT dark angels” count as “contributing greatly to an important battle”?

That depends on what the Fallen was up to, doesn't it?

If he was going to idk, set off a bomb that would devastate Imperial lines then yeah. Yeah it does.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
That depends on what the Fallen was up to, doesn't it?

If he was going to idk, set off a bomb that would devastate Imperial lines then yeah. Yeah it does.

If he was not even there, it was just a rumor, and the unforgiven just left their allies at the start of a battle, putting them in weaker position than if the dark angel had never even come, though… not that much.
Guess which one happens more often.

How to win against the dark angel:
- Capture/train one actor
- Build a mock black power armor out of cardboxes
- Spread a rumor about some very elusive marine in a black power armor
- Leave the actor in some open place
- Wait
- Bombard the hell out of the place when the dark angel shows up

Whoops... there doesn't seem to be anything here.

 Sillycybin wrote:

First of all anyone who thinks the universe needs to be more realistic or lose the necrons , tyranids or generally hates on powerarmour should just go play historical. Seriously, go take your ww1 and play a ww1 game. No? Ok, then your here to travel space and fight space aliens and robots.

I'd exalt your post a hundred times if I could for this alone.

Realism is the death of 40k, and anyone who doesn't like the lack of realism in 40k should go play a different game rather than try and make this one shittier.

 Sillycybin wrote:
Wow this thread is infuriating...

First of all anyone who thinks the universe needs to be more realistic or lose the necrons , tyranids or generally hates on powerarmour should just go play historical. Seriously, go take your ww1 and play a ww1 game. No? Ok, then your here to travel space and fight space aliens and robots.

Second each space marine chapter has its own fluff and can be interesting and fitting or uninteresting not fitting. Surely a blanket statement like DKOK > (ALL) SM is meant to troll and cause anger among the community.

Third DKoK plot is about as original as samurai jack Draigo. They are cut and paste clonetroopers from starwars mashed with ww1 soldiers and a pet project of the forgeworld designers. That isn't to say they are not a cool force or they have no place!

Your "Muh favourite army is better then yours" thread is really childish.

How are they anything like the Clone Troopers? Clone Troopers are a well equipped elite corps that wins through superior skill in battle and tactics rather than sheer attrition.

Whoops... there doesn't seem to be anything here.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Sillycybin wrote:
Wow this thread is infuriating...

First of all anyone who thinks the universe needs to be more realistic or lose the necrons , tyranids or generally hates on powerarmour should just go play historical. Seriously, go take your ww1 and play a ww1 game. No? Ok, then your here to travel space and fight space aliens and robots.

Second each space marine chapter has its own fluff and can be interesting and fitting or uninteresting not fitting. Surely a blanket statement like DKOK > (ALL) SM is meant to troll and cause anger among the community.

Third DKoK plot is about as original as samurai jack Draigo. They are cut and paste clonetroopers from starwars mashed with ww1 soldiers and a pet project of the forgeworld designers. That isn't to say they are not a cool force or they have no place!

Your "Muh favourite army is better then yours" thread is really childish.

How are they anything like the Clone Troopers? Clone Troopers are a well equipped elite corps that wins through superior skill in battle and tactics rather than sheer attrition.

Look at that glorious elite fighting force, marching across terrain with numerous cover options in napoleonic formation, not bothering to even take cover like the separatists they're fighting.



Look, more glorious elite forces abandoning good positions of cover to engage the enemy at point-blank range in glorious marching formation, even using extremely advanced volley lines! Clearly an elite fighting force that would not be out of place and outdated even in WWII, which is what Star Wars combat is heavily inspired by.

 Sillycybin wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:


How are they anything like the Clone Troopers? Clone Troopers are a well equipped elite corps that wins through superior skill in battle and tactics rather than sheer attrition.

If you watched the same battle of geonosis that I watched I am pretty sure I saw a mass charge across an open field. Dkok are clones that charge across no mans land, clone troopers are clones that charge across no mans land. No similarities at all.

Battle of Geonosis, Thule, Rhen Var and Hypori off the top of my head depict this style of war but that's not their MO. Most sources show them fighting like WW2 infantry rather than the DKoK. Watch the CGI series and EP. 3 for this type of warfare.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Sillycybin wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:


How are they anything like the Clone Troopers? Clone Troopers are a well equipped elite corps that wins through superior skill in battle and tactics rather than sheer attrition.

If you watched the same battle of geonosis that I watched I am pretty sure I saw a mass charge across an open field. Dkok are clones that charge across no mans land, clone troopers are clones that charge across no mans land. No similarities at all.

Battle of Geonosis, Thule, Rhen Var and Hypori off the top of my head depict this style of war but that's not their MO. Most sources show them fighting like WW2 infantry rather than the DKoK. Watch the CGI series and EP. 3 for this type of warfare.

The guys who write these scenes for Starwars have the same problem as the guys who write the fluff for 40k.

Inconsistent and ranges from somewhat sensible to plain stupid. How those clones got so close to the droids in those formations alive is beyond me.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Sillycybin wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:


How are they anything like the Clone Troopers? Clone Troopers are a well equipped elite corps that wins through superior skill in battle and tactics rather than sheer attrition.

If you watched the same battle of geonosis that I watched I am pretty sure I saw a mass charge across an open field. Dkok are clones that charge across no mans land, clone troopers are clones that charge across no mans land. No similarities at all.

Battle of Geonosis, Thule, Rhen Var and Hypori off the top of my head depict this style of war but that's not their MO. Most sources show them fighting like WW2 infantry rather than the DKoK. Watch the CGI series and EP. 3 for this type of warfare.

The guys who write these scenes for Starwars have the same problem as the guys who write the fluff for 40k.

Inconsistent and ranges from somewhat sensible to plain stupid. How those clones got so close to the droids in those formations alive is beyond me.

Decent armor and the fact that the cheaply made battle droids aren't exactly crack shots. Do remember that the battle droids were made enmass to Swarm enemies backed by a few elite units.

 Swastakowey wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Sillycybin wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:


How are they anything like the Clone Troopers? Clone Troopers are a well equipped elite corps that wins through superior skill in battle and tactics rather than sheer attrition.

If you watched the same battle of geonosis that I watched I am pretty sure I saw a mass charge across an open field. Dkok are clones that charge across no mans land, clone troopers are clones that charge across no mans land. No similarities at all.

Battle of Geonosis, Thule, Rhen Var and Hypori off the top of my head depict this style of war but that's not their MO. Most sources show them fighting like WW2 infantry rather than the DKoK. Watch the CGI series and EP. 3 for this type of warfare.

The guys who write these scenes for Starwars have the same problem as the guys who write the fluff for 40k.

Inconsistent and ranges from somewhat sensible to plain stupid. How those clones got so close to the droids in those formations alive is beyond me.

The CGI series and EP. 3 were better about that. Battle of Felucia, Mygeeto, Utapau and Kashykk had more sensible infantry deployment.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Sillycybin wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:


How are they anything like the Clone Troopers? Clone Troopers are a well equipped elite corps that wins through superior skill in battle and tactics rather than sheer attrition.

If you watched the same battle of geonosis that I watched I am pretty sure I saw a mass charge across an open field. Dkok are clones that charge across no mans land, clone troopers are clones that charge across no mans land. No similarities at all.

Battle of Geonosis, Thule, Rhen Var and Hypori off the top of my head depict this style of war but that's not their MO. Most sources show them fighting like WW2 infantry rather than the DKoK. Watch the CGI series and EP. 3 for this type of warfare.

The guys who write these scenes for Starwars have the same problem as the guys who write the fluff for 40k.

Inconsistent and ranges from somewhat sensible to plain stupid. How those clones got so close to the droids in those formations alive is beyond me.

Decent armor and the fact that the cheaply made battle droids aren't exactly crack shots. Do remember that the battle droids were made enmass to Swarm enemies backed by a few elite units.

You dont need to be a crack shot to hit walls of men who clearly are not capable of taking laser shots despite their armour. Also the amount of ordinance in that battle was huge. Any commander would absolutely love to see waves of men running across ground like that with all the supports and soldiers standing their shooting them. If the droids miss massed clones walking forward in blocks like that, then they where not a threat to the galaxy at all. Numbers or not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Swastakowey wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Sillycybin wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:


How are they anything like the Clone Troopers? Clone Troopers are a well equipped elite corps that wins through superior skill in battle and tactics rather than sheer attrition.

If you watched the same battle of geonosis that I watched I am pretty sure I saw a mass charge across an open field. Dkok are clones that charge across no mans land, clone troopers are clones that charge across no mans land. No similarities at all.

Battle of Geonosis, Thule, Rhen Var and Hypori off the top of my head depict this style of war but that's not their MO. Most sources show them fighting like WW2 infantry rather than the DKoK. Watch the CGI series and EP. 3 for this type of warfare.

The guys who write these scenes for Starwars have the same problem as the guys who write the fluff for 40k.

Inconsistent and ranges from somewhat sensible to plain stupid. How those clones got so close to the droids in those formations alive is beyond me.

The CGI series and EP. 3 were better about that. Battle of Felucia, Mygeeto, Utapau and Kashykk had more sensible infantry deployment.

Yea, if the Dysney movies manage to get me back into starwars I may look at these.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Sillycybin wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:


How are they anything like the Clone Troopers? Clone Troopers are a well equipped elite corps that wins through superior skill in battle and tactics rather than sheer attrition.

If you watched the same battle of geonosis that I watched I am pretty sure I saw a mass charge across an open field. Dkok are clones that charge across no mans land, clone troopers are clones that charge across no mans land. No similarities at all.

Battle of Geonosis, Thule, Rhen Var and Hypori off the top of my head depict this style of war but that's not their MO. Most sources show them fighting like WW2 infantry rather than the DKoK. Watch the CGI series and EP. 3 for this type of warfare.

I did. The CGI series largely portrays them as morons who actively practice Napoleonic warfare to the point they even sometimes fight in marching formation. It doesn't help their commanders were peace officers and not military generals.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Sillycybin wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:


How are they anything like the Clone Troopers? Clone Troopers are a well equipped elite corps that wins through superior skill in battle and tactics rather than sheer attrition.

If you watched the same battle of geonosis that I watched I am pretty sure I saw a mass charge across an open field. Dkok are clones that charge across no mans land, clone troopers are clones that charge across no mans land. No similarities at all.

Battle of Geonosis, Thule, Rhen Var and Hypori off the top of my head depict this style of war but that's not their MO. Most sources show them fighting like WW2 infantry rather than the DKoK. Watch the CGI series and EP. 3 for this type of warfare.

I did. The CGI series largely portrays them as morons who actively practice Napoleonic warfare to the point they even sometimes fight in marching formation. It doesn't help their commanders were peace officers and not military generals.

True. Why they used Jedi as generals rather than shock troops is strange. During the Battle of Geonosis the Jedi used Clone Commandos like Line Infantry which cost them thousands.

But the Clone Troopers do not wage war like the DKoK. The way they win war maybe stupid and dated, I'll concede that, but they don't drown their opponents in corpses. It's just that their enemies are so incompetent that block formations somehow work against them.

Swastakowey, you would probably like Mass Effect, or possibly Titanfall. 40K really does not seem like your thing.

Third DKoK plot is about as original as samurai jack Draigo. They are cut and paste clonetroopers from starwars mashed with ww1 soldiers.

There's not set fluff saying they are clones. just ideas.

How are they anything like the Clone Troopers? Clone Troopers are a well equipped elite corps that wins through superior skill in battle and tactics rather than sheer attrition.

The clone were Elite and well equipped as the Polish army in ww2.

 kinratha wrote:

Third DKoK plot is about as original as samurai jack Draigo. They are cut and paste clonetroopers from starwars mashed with ww1 soldiers.

There's not set fluff saying they are clones. just ideas.

How are they anything like the Clone Troopers? Clone Troopers are a well equipped elite corps that wins through superior skill in battle and tactics rather than sheer attrition.

The clone were Elite and well equipped as the Polish army in ww2.

Except the Poles were still a competent lethal fighting force.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Sillycybin wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:


How are they anything like the Clone Troopers? Clone Troopers are a well equipped elite corps that wins through superior skill in battle and tactics rather than sheer attrition.

If you watched the same battle of geonosis that I watched I am pretty sure I saw a mass charge across an open field. Dkok are clones that charge across no mans land, clone troopers are clones that charge across no mans land. No similarities at all.

Battle of Geonosis, Thule, Rhen Var and Hypori off the top of my head depict this style of war but that's not their MO. Most sources show them fighting like WW2 infantry rather than the DKoK. Watch the CGI series and EP. 3 for this type of warfare.

I did. The CGI series largely portrays them as morons who actively practice Napoleonic warfare to the point they even sometimes fight in marching formation. It doesn't help their commanders were peace officers and not military generals.

True. Why they used Jedi as generals rather than shock troops is strange. During the Battle of Geonosis the Jedi used Clone Commandos like Line Infantry which cost them thousands.

But the Clone Troopers do not wage war like the DKoK. The way they win war maybe stupid and dated, I'll concede that, but they don't drown their opponents in corpses. It's just that their enemies are so incompetent that block formations somehow work against them.

That's a given. You could give B1's guass weapons and they'd still be utterly worthless. They're something Ewoks could beat without plot shields.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 kinratha wrote:

Third DKoK plot is about as original as samurai jack Draigo. They are cut and paste clonetroopers from starwars mashed with ww1 soldiers.

There's not set fluff saying they are clones. just ideas.

How are they anything like the Clone Troopers? Clone Troopers are a well equipped elite corps that wins through superior skill in battle and tactics rather than sheer attrition.

The clone were Elite and well equipped as the Polish army in ww2.

Except the Poles were still a competent lethal fighting force.

But the weren't. They had a choice to fight a 2 front war, or retreat. They retreated.

 Ashiraya wrote:
Swastakowey, you would probably like Mass Effect, or possibly Titanfall. 40K really does not seem like your thing.

I didnt mind Mass Effect. Titan fall is not me. Hate FpS games 99% of the time

I do like the 40k for the aesthetic and freedom to make the setting as I please. So 40k is for me provided I avoid any cannon. For example my go to IG book is the 3rd edition codex. Which has some great stuff in there.

 Sillycybin wrote:
Wow this thread is infuriating...
[…]
Second each space marine chapter has its own fluff and can be interesting and fitting or uninteresting not fitting. Surely a blanket statement like DKOK > (ALL) SM is meant to troll and cause anger among the community.

Third DKoK plot is about as original as samurai jack Draigo. They are cut and paste clonetroopers from starwars mashed with ww1 soldiers and a pet project of the forgeworld designers. That isn't to say they are not a cool force or they have no place!

Your "Muh favourite army is better then yours" thread is really childish.

So, you missed the fact that this thread was actually posted by some marine fanboy to say that marines are better than DKoK (and not the other way), did you not?
Personally, I like the DKoK more than any marines chapter ever made, and I think it will be so until GW makes the Claws of the Underground canon, i.e. the space wolves, but with every wolf-stuff replaced by mole-stuff. I want some marines riding on moles, some were-mole, etc!
(And then again, if we get an Imperial Guard regiment of mole-men, it could be even better.)

 Swastakowey wrote:

 Ashiraya wrote:
Swastakowey, you would probably like Mass Effect, or possibly Titanfall. 40K really does not seem like your thing.

I didnt mind Mass Effect. Titan fall is not me. Hate FpS games 99% of the time

I do like the 40k for the aesthetic and freedom to make the setting as I please. So 40k is for me provided I avoid any cannon. For example my go to IG book is the 3rd edition codex. Which has some great stuff in there.

I was talking more about the settings. Both Titanfall and Mass Effect are more 'realistic' interpretations of the future. 40K, not so much. Mass Effect and Titanfall at least have believable explanations for why their things work.

Until you get to the last 10 minutes of the Mass Effect series at least

 Vaktathi wrote:
Until you get to the last 10 minutes of the Mass Effect series at least

That Which Should Not Be Named

 Wyzilla wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Sillycybin wrote:
Wow this thread is infuriating...

First of all anyone who thinks the universe needs to be more realistic or lose the necrons , tyranids or generally hates on powerarmour should just go play historical. Seriously, go take your ww1 and play a ww1 game. No? Ok, then your here to travel space and fight space aliens and robots.

Second each space marine chapter has its own fluff and can be interesting and fitting or uninteresting not fitting. Surely a blanket statement like DKOK > (ALL) SM is meant to troll and cause anger among the community.

Third DKoK plot is about as original as samurai jack Draigo. They are cut and paste clonetroopers from starwars mashed with ww1 soldiers and a pet project of the forgeworld designers. That isn't to say they are not a cool force or they have no place!

Your "Muh favourite army is better then yours" thread is really childish.

How are they anything like the Clone Troopers? Clone Troopers are a well equipped elite corps that wins through superior skill in battle and tactics rather than sheer attrition.

As I recall they were intentionally in open ground in the second picture.

Spoiler:

Look at that glorious elite fighting force, marching across terrain with numerous cover options in napoleonic formation, not bothering to even take cover like the separatists they're fighting.

Spoiler:

Look, more glorious elite forces abandoning good positions of cover to engage the enemy at point-blank range in glorious marching formation, even using extremely advanced volley lines! Clearly an elite fighting force that would not be out of place and outdated even in WWII, which is what Star Wars combat is heavily inspired by.

 kinratha wrote:

Third DKoK plot is about as original as samurai jack Draigo. They are cut and paste clonetroopers from starwars mashed with ww1 soldiers.

There's not set fluff saying they are clones. just ideas.

How are they anything like the Clone Troopers? Clone Troopers are a well equipped elite corps that wins through superior skill in battle and tactics rather than sheer attrition.

The clone were Elite and well equipped as the Polish army in ww2.

What? For the time the Clones had nice kit and vehicles.

 kinratha wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 kinratha wrote:

Third DKoK plot is about as original as samurai jack Draigo. They are cut and paste clonetroopers from starwars mashed with ww1 soldiers.

There's not set fluff saying they are clones. just ideas.

How are they anything like the Clone Troopers? Clone Troopers are a well equipped elite corps that wins through superior skill in battle and tactics rather than sheer attrition.

The clone were Elite and well equipped as the Polish army in ww2.

Except the Poles were still a competent lethal fighting force.

But the weren't. They had a choice to fight a 2 front war, or retreat. They retreated.

Spoiler:

Facing a second front, the Polish government concluded the defence of the Romanian Bridgehead was no longer feasible and ordered an emergency evacuation of all troops to neutral Romania.

Wiki

Since when was understanding that you could not win and so instead chose to retreat in order to preserve your forces (which would enable them to join up with other allied forces later) bad?

A pilot in one of the Polish squadrons in the RAF shot down more enemy planes in the Battle of Britain than any other. They were definitely not incompetent.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 kinratha wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

 kinratha wrote:

Third DKoK plot is about as original as samurai jack Draigo. They are cut and paste clonetroopers from starwars mashed with ww1 soldiers.

There's not set fluff saying they are clones. just ideas.

How are they anything like the Clone Troopers? Clone Troopers are a well equipped elite corps that wins through superior skill in battle and tactics rather than sheer attrition.

The clone were Elite and well equipped as the Polish army in ww2.

Except the Poles were still a competent lethal fighting force.

But the weren't. They had a choice to fight a 2 front war, or retreat. They retreated.

Spoiler:

Facing a second front, the Polish government concluded the defence of the Romanian Bridgehead was no longer feasible and ordered an emergency evacuation of all troops to neutral Romania.

Wiki

Since when was understanding that you could not win and so instead chose to retreat in order to preserve your forces (which would enable them to join up with other allied forces later) bad?

The Polish squadrons in the RAF shot down more enemy planes in the Battle of Britain than any other. They were definitely not incompetent.

Not to mention that Polish resistance forces fashioned flamethrowers out of the junk they found lying around that were capable of killing Panzer tanks.