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I like the Hall of Fame game because of the interviews with the new inductees, especially the senior members. They're always like "I thought they forgot about me, I've waited so long" and look so happy to be there.

WOAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Adam Shefter jus tweeted bengals and Andy Dalton reached a 6 year 115 million dollar extension. Edit(depending on guarantees) That seems INSANE for the red rocket.

Perhaps someone here would know... in relation to salary caps, and cap space... do the various "bonuses" or all of the not garaunteed money that players get count against the salary cap??

As in, if I signed an "$80 million" deal, in which I was garaunteed to get 30 million, with the rest coming in the form of performance bonuses, etc... would the team's cap hit only be 30 mill, or would it be potentially the full 80?

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Perhaps someone here would know... in relation to salary caps, and cap space... do the various "bonuses" or all of the not garaunteed money that players get count against the salary cap??

As in, if I signed an "$80 million" deal, in which I was garaunteed to get 30 million, with the rest coming in the form of performance bonuses, etc... would the team's cap hit only be 30 mill, or would it be potentially the full 80?

I believe bonuses do count. Which is why you'd see some get cut before their "Roster Bonus" kicks in..

Haha cap stuff is so complicated ;(. Not all bonuses count toward your cap number I think NLTB do not count but LTB bonuses do. That's all I can really help with.

Edit:whembly those are usually just roster bonuses and backloaded contracts that get players cut before a certain date.

The Bengals continue to stupefy...jeez.

*meh*

You have 2 choices. 1. let him go, start over, and let someone else pay him. 2. pay him what starting qbs are getting in their 2nd contract.

A contract is not like sales commissions measured by the TDs and/or playoff wins etc. It has nothing to do with our idea of what he is "worth." It doesn't work that way. It's the market. Right now the market for a starting qb in his 2nd contract avgs. around 18 M, give or take.

The avg. WILL go up of course.

Dalton got around 19 M a year so apparently the avg. IS going up.

FWIW... I think he's a decent starting QB. Not everyone can be a Manning.

 Ensis Ferrae wrote:
Perhaps someone here would know... in relation to salary caps, and cap space... do the various "bonuses" or all of the not garaunteed money that players get count against the salary cap??

As in, if I signed an "$80 million" deal, in which I was garaunteed to get 30 million, with the rest coming in the form of performance bonuses, etc... would the team's cap hit only be 30 mill, or would it be potentially the full 80?

Like the others have said bonuses do count but signing bonuses don't (I think)
As for Dalton's deal he's not an elite QB but you have to pay them money or they'll walk and someone else will pay them

I thought signing bonuses were part of the "guaranteed" part of a contract and usually were spread out a little over the length of the contract?
Edit: therefore counting against their cap but with an ability to spread the hit however you choose.

As a Steelers fan, I'm absolutely *thrilled* with the contracts that Flacco and Dalton received. They'll probably drive Roethlisberger's asking price even higher next year, but that's still much less impact on the cap compared to what Baltimore and Cincy have absorbed.

Chancetragedy wrote:
I thought signing bonuses were part of the "guaranteed" part of a contract and usually were spread out a little over the length of the contract?
Edit: therefore counting against their cap but with an ability to spread the hit however you choose.

I'm pretty sure they're just paid upon signing the contract so are part of the guaranteed but already accounted for so aren't counted against the cap. Cutler's contract has a clause that allows the Bears to change some of his guaranteed money into a signing bonus to help with future cap issues

 Hlaine Larkin mk2 wrote:

Chancetragedy wrote:
I thought signing bonuses were part of the "guaranteed" part of a contract and usually were spread out a little over the length of the contract?
Edit: therefore counting against their cap but with an ability to spread the hit however you choose.

I'm pretty sure they're just paid upon signing the contract so are part of the guaranteed but already accounted for so aren't counted against the cap. Cutler's contract has a clause that allows the Bears to change some of his guaranteed money into a signing bonus to help with future cap issues

Interesting. I Guess it's time to do a little research haha.

Apparently David Wilson has been advised the retire.
This really sucks, great young running back when healthy but you have to take care of your long term health and neck injuries are nothing to joke about

Yah getting that burner in camp pretty much sealed it for David Wilson. Such a devastating injury for a young person especially.

The Wilson situation sucks. Andre Williams looks great though and the addition of Jennings is all positive!

The thing about caps is that all money paid counts, eventually. If there really were a signing-bonus loophole, all the richer teams would be using it to load-up their rosters with money that doesn't count.

Let's say you give a guy a 5 year contract for 100 million, of which 40 million is guaranteed in the form of a bonus.

What happens is that his cap hit ends up being roughly 20 million/year, of which 12 mil/year is salary, and 8 mi/year is that bonus.

Where it gets confusing is what happens when you release the player, or restructure the deal.

If you let a player go, all that signing bonus money immediately hits the current cap. So, using our imaginary guy from above, if he plays out two years of that contract and is then released, he'd have a cap hit of about 20 mil in year one, and about 20 mil in year two. But, now you have three years of that bonus money that's already been paid, and now needs to be counted for on the cap - that's 8 million times 3 remaining years, so you end up with 24 million in 'dead money' against the cap.

(This also happens if a player retires, so it's not just if he's cut. And, if he's traded, I think the new team takes responsibility for the salary, but the old team still has to pay off the bonus against their current cap. It does get a little hard to follow at times).

This is why you see some restructuring deals that don't make a lot of sense, outside of playing with cap numbers. When a 35 year-old guy signs a new seven year deal, no one expects him to play out seven years. But the team wants him now, and is willing to take a cap hit later (when they know he'll not be on the team) in order to win now. If you hear announcers talk about clubs with a window closing, this is often the reason why. They'll stock up with back-loaded contracts, trying to get as many stars as possible for a 2-3 year stretch, knowing that at the end of that time, all those contracts come due together, and they'll need to have a rebuilding year where they cope with all the dead cap.

There are some other tricks that teams use to play with these numbers. When someone signs a 3 year contract for 30 mil (plus bonuses) it probably isn't 10/10/10 - they'll push more money later into the deal, so maybe 8/10/12. That gives the played the feeling of getting raises through the contract, plus the signing bonus up-front compensates for the lower first year. The club can then restructure the deal in the later, more expensive years...

It's also worth noting that there's also a salary floor. The collective bargaining agreement states that not only is there a cap, but also, all teams must spend a minimum amount, something like 95% of the cap. (Obviously, the player's union likes this). Before the current agreement, which has closed some loopholes, it was subject to as many tricks as the cap, with teams that didn't want to spend as much (Jacksonville and Tampa both did some of this) trading for players with known dead cap hits, then cutting them, getting away with a low payroll. The current bargaining agreement takes some of that into account, with teams now being required to spend a minimum amount of actual cash.

What I was talking about though, wasn't a signing bonus, but rather the "performance bonuses" that you occasionally hear about.

For instance, back in the day Barry Sanders would probably have had a bonus for 1,000 yards rushing or more in a single season. That sort of thing.

IF a player has something in their contract that stipulates "each season that undersigned player reaches X milestone, the Organization will pay Y amount of dollars" (for arguments sake, we'll go with 1000 yards rushing), and in the first season of the contract only makes 600 yards for whatever reason, would this count against the team's overall cap?

That's somewhat complex, and there are rules that govern it.

The most basic principle in cap numbers for incentives is the idea of whether it's likely to be achieved or not. Incentives that classify as Likely are cap hits. Incentives classified as Not Likely do not.

There are rules in place that determine whether something is Likely or Not Likely. For individual stats, if a player did it last year, it's Likely that they can do it again this year. For team stats, if the team did it last year, same deal. (Also, no offensive player qualifies for defensive team stats without playing some percentage of defensive snaps, and vice-versa).

For incentives that are wholly under the player's control, such as off-season workout bonuses, they all count as Likely.

LTBE incentives (likely to be earned) are incentives that a player has reached before and count toward the cap.

NLTBE(not likely to be earned) are incentives that a player hasn't earned before and typically don't count.

Seriously cap stuff is super super complicated once you really start to break it down. It's actually something I've been getting more and more into as there is a guy on another forum I post on named Miguel who is constantly sourced in national writers articles. I would classify myself as a complete and total noob though ATM.

Chancetragedy wrote:
LTBE incentives (likely to be earned) are incentives that a player has reached before and count toward the cap.

NLTBE(not likely to be earned) are incentives that a player hasn't earned before and typically don't count.

Seriously cap stuff is super super complicated once you really start to break it down. It's actually something I've been getting more and more into as there is a guy on another forum I post on named Miguel who is constantly sourced in national writers articles. I would classify myself as a complete and total noob though ATM.

This... Plus ...

At the end of the season, the NFL calculates how much each team had set aside for LTBEs that weren’t earned – or said differently, it figures out how much was charged to the team’s cap that was not actually spent. Similarly, the NFL calculates the amount of incentives designated NLTBE that were actually earned. If the unearned LTBEs are greater than the earned NLTBEs, then the following year’s salary cap for that team is increased by the net amount. Similarly, if the earned NLTBEs exceed the unearned LTBEs, then the team’s cap for the following year is lowered by that amount. You can see an example of the effect of cap adjustments at USA Today. The teams with negative cap adjustments had most likely earned more NLTBE incentives in 2013 than they did not earn LTBE incentives.

Preseason starts tomorrow! I've been avoiding NFL talk till now cause I get burned out just talking contracts and filmed training camp

Ready for some football!!!

Go bears!!! Don't really know who's backing up jay this year so those traditional 5 or 6 games without him might be a little scarier this year

Right now Jordan Palmer is #2 with Jimmy Clausen and David Fales behind him

Oh wow that's scary. Never seen Palmer play and barely heard of the others...
If Cutler stays healthy and the defence is improved Chicago should be in the playoff picture I think

Fales is a rookie and Clausen was in Carolina for years, just remember people weren't entirely sold on McCown last year but Trestman is a great coach for Qbs

Preseason game thoughts... so far....

Cincy and KC looked horrid. A lot worse than the final score shows.
Dallas' D looked like last year, like an 8-8 team.
NE is banking on Brady staying healthy, the backups were gak.
SF is looking for a backup QB as well. Gabbert was horrid with a 1.7 QB rating.
Denver and Seattle.... meh, but then it is preseason and they face each other later (Sept 21 in Sea.)
Jets/Indy... Again preseason though NYJ definitely had issues on offense. Their pass rush looked better though.

Waiting on tonights games.

Jimmy garopollo looked fine for the patriots. He was 9/13 for like 100 yards and a TD. Should have been 10/13 for 153 and 2TD but one of our receivers dropped a fairly routine long ball.

Ryan Mallett on the other hand good god was he terrible. Like why is he even on the team as a backup awful. It looks like the 3 years sitting on the bench in NE has really taken it's toll. Because he looks robotic and lost, which he didn't look like coming out of college.

I didn't get to see any other the other games. But New England sat somethig like 18 starters/major contributors, so I don't know what I was expecting lol.

Bears first-string looked good. Offense, the right side of the line sat out, and it showed when Forte tried running that way on the first series. Our first team defense held the Eagles first string to 11 yards and no points, while our offense had a decent sustained drive that ended in a TD.

Second stringers, the Eagles had the advantage, and were up at the half on a blown kickoff coverage. Nice note here was seeing Fuller (1st round pick, CB) get a pick. Also, Zach Miller looked solid as a backup TE candidate, with 2 TDs and a string of catches on identical plays that the Eagles didn't seem to want to cover.

Third string, Bears came out ahead, and won the game.

Typical first preseason game though, with lots of flags, technical miscues in the stadium, and little shown.

I agree.
Philly wasn't looking to show their hand. 17 receivers targeted shows they were looking at backups hard. Which is to be expected.
The D looked weak against the pass, a problem they also had last year. Chi averaged 3 yards more per pass than Philly, with nearly the same comp/att ratio.(28/45 to 29/44)
Good against the run (Chi averaged under 3yds per carry)

Penalties though, good gods! A combined 23 for nearly 200 yards. And that was just the ones accepted. I think flags got dropped more than 30 times. New refs plus new rules can be blamed for some of that.

fitzpatrick 1/4 with an INT AKA in mid season form >.<

So I gotta ask...
How do Browns fans justify the fact that Weedon had a higher completion rate with Dallas than all of the current Browns QBs?