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Just as an example of pricing analysis being done elsewhere:
http://news.slashdot.org/story/14/07/30/213241/amazons-ebook-math

Yes, it's ebooks, but GW sells ebooks, too:

"So, for example, if customers would buy 100,000 copies of a particular e-book at $14.99, then customers would buy 174,000 copies of that same e-book at $9.99. Total revenue at $14.99 would be $1,499,000. Total revenue at $9.99 is $1,738,000." They argue that capping most ebooks at $9.99 would be better for everyone, with the money split out 35% to the author, 35% to the publisher, and 30% to Amazon."

 MightyGodzilla wrote:
My short answer is cut the US/UK prices by 35%. Make the rest of the world pay US/UK prices. Aussie prices are complete BS.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I don't need pretty box art either.

<3
I get the exact same pleasure opening a big box of unmarked mantic kickstarter goodness that I do opening a flash retail package. Cut the costs, give us cheap plastic!

 kerikhaos wrote:
My question quite simply is "how much should these items be in your opinion and why?"

I'd say 4-5x the price of 1/72 minis from Revell/Italieri. Why? Because I'm generous, that's why!

1/72 minis are made of plastics, just like GW's, by companies that often have in-house production lines, just like GW, and even if 22mm minis have half the volume of 28mm minis, material cost is a very tiny part of the final cost. The average quality of recent 1/72 sculpts is often pretty good, even if they're not totally on par with GW's sculpts. I suspect the lack of "heroic-sized" details to have an influence here.

So, yeah, 4-5x would be a good ratio. I'm not being unfair to GW, quite the opposite: 5x is the ratio between the price tags of a Ford Focus and a Porsche Carrera...

5 Infantrymen : 5-6€ (Dire Avengers, Space Marines Scouts, Tempestus...)
10 Infantrymen : 10-12€ (Tactical Squad, Witch Elves...)
16 Infantrymen : 14-18€ (Men at Arms, Elven Spearmen)
Small Vehicle : 15-20€ (Gyrocopter, Rhino...)
Medium Vehicle : 20-25€ (Leman Russ, Predator...)
Large Vehicle : 40-50€ (Land Raider, Monolith, Flyers...)

They're a 'mainstream' game that ultimately thrives on volume but is priced like a premium niche set of models for display.

Hence, if the game itself favour larger model count armies, then they need to adjust the price to reflect a decent return in the game meta per unit purchased whilst keeping in mind that plastic is cheap and these are ultimately gaming, not display models.

I still think they could try and think along the lines of what the customer would find appealing. I for one don't believe for one sec that they are actually losing anything profit wise otherwise it would force the company (like it or not) to reduce prices or making buying in bulk more offerable.

Logically anyone in retail who stood at this crossroads of being at loss would consider reducing costs or shutting down. To continue as is means to me their claims are a load of cack. Their just upset their greed isn't being fulfilled to the max is why they are moaning.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
The packaging must also be considered - if you need ten miniatures to field a full sized squad then a box should contain ten miniatures.

It's not so much about providing the max squad size in a box, but a reasonable amount that gives me an optimum way to get the the max size. What annoys me more is squads of 3-5 or 3-10 that come in boxes of 3. To field 5 I need to buy 2 boxes and have a spare, to field all 10 I need 4 boxes and 2 spares.

Herzlos wrote:

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
The packaging must also be considered - if you need ten miniatures to field a full sized squad then a box should contain ten miniatures.

It's not so much about providing the max squad size in a box, but a reasonable amount that gives me an optimum way to get the the max size. What annoys me more is squads of 3-5 or 3-10 that come in boxes of 3. To field 5 I need to buy 2 boxes and have a spare, to field all 10 I need 4 boxes and 2 spares.

Agreed, they need to rework their packs which means less packaging, less production and results in cheaper costs for more minis in a pack

No price reduction would convince me to play 40k for the time being, with the rules in the current state they are, and the current influx of Playmobil-esque giant plastics carpet-bombing the poor bloody infantry.

But, I would probably get some of the LoTR range if they were something like 50-66% of their current asking price. The current price just seems like price-gouging, and unfortunately my sense of principle outweighs how much I want the minis..

I think GW prices are a little high, but thats why I buy from my FLGS for 15% off. You get what you pay for. Sturdy models with great detail and lots of options.

Lowering the price of kits (50% from what people are saying o_O) causes its own problems. The moulds will wear out a lot faster and they are -not- cheap. Would GW be able to keep up with demand?

And I really doubt that if armies were 50% cheaper that people would buy double the amount of stuff. They'd just spend the money on other things.

And if they do cut their margins that much, I REALLY doubt they would have FLGS sell their wares because the margins wouldn't make it worth it. You're not getting that 50% reduction then a further reduction buying at a FLGS. 50% would destroy GW. Heck having margins of 100% isn't much considering clothes have a margin of 300%!

chnmmr wrote:
I think GW prices are a little high, but thats why I buy from my FLGS for 15% off. You get what you pay for.

Have you bought "finecast" before? Kind of puts a damper on that ; p

chnmmr wrote:

Lowering the price of kits (50% from what people are saying o_O) causes its own problems. The moulds will wear out a lot faster and they are -not- cheap. Would GW be able to keep up with demand?

The moulds for plastic kits (ie the majority of kits that GW produce) are aluminium. They don't wear out or at least, not after decades of continual use.

 Yonan wrote:

chnmmr wrote:
I think GW prices are a little high, but thats why I buy from my FLGS for 15% off. You get what you pay for.

Have you bought "finecast" before? Kind of puts a damper on that ; p

Oh I hate finecast. I like to pretend it doesn't exist :S Blocky finecast models? Sure. Finecast models with long staffs, spikes etc? No thanks I'll take OOP metal thanks.


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 filbert wrote:

chnmmr wrote:

Lowering the price of kits (50% from what people are saying o_O) causes its own problems. The moulds will wear out a lot faster and they are -not- cheap. Would GW be able to keep up with demand?

The moulds for plastic kits (ie the majority of kits that GW produce) are aluminium. They don't wear out or at least, not after decades of continual use.

Yes, but if its expected they sell 2 to 3x more for the massive price drop, the moulds will be replace much faster. So much reduced profit per box with more moulds needed is simply reduced profit. The space marine bike sprue is a prime example. It is old enough that an assembled bike does not line up well. If many more bikes were sold, that sprue would have had to be replaced at least once if not twice.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Land Raider: $45

It's a large kit admittedly but it is not worth $70. It's a big plastic box with little detail or optional parts.

Space Marine Tactical Squad: $25.

Marines aren't worth $4 a miniature. They aren't that nice.

Stormtalon: $20.

It's a small box.

Stormraven: $40

Another plastic box.

Eldar Dire Avengers:
$12.50

They're small plastic men with chunky details. Why are they $7 a miniature?

Leman Russ Battle Tank:$35

$50 god damn dollars for a small plastic box? Nope.

Cadian Shock Troops:
$15

They're Guardsman. Why are they so damned pricey?

Ogryn:
$10

They're three stupid models.

Single monoposed Captain:
$5

It's a monoposed plastic mini. $5 is a little generous too.

Rhino: $20

Small box is not worth as much as the squad it carries. It's just plastic sheets.

I think this sums it up well.

Also, I'd like models with the option of taking special weapons to actually come with those weapons - rather than, say, having to buy 3 squads to get one squad's worth of special weapons. Hell, if I recall correctly, IG infantry have to buy some completely separate metal(!!) models just to get a meltas and plasmagun.

I'm with TheCustomLine too, those prices look about right. I very rarely buy direct from GW, but I wont pay more than £3 maximum per standard model from Ebay, and maybe £5 for a character.

My biggest issue with the price increases is that there is no consistency. I was inspired to do an analysis of price increases while reading an old White Dwarf. Some kits have seen huge percentage price increases, and some have seen much less, despite the content of the kit staying the same. This just proves the pricing policy is "what we think we can get away with", and whacking on a big chunk whenever that army gets an update. Making prices consistent would help GW avoid a lot of the hate. Completely agree that their exchange rates, particularly for Australia, are atrocious. I'm surprised anyone in Oz can still afford to play.

I don't mind the cost of the figures for the most part. The point to cost ratio for some things are bad enough to make it unfeasible to field some units.

What really burns me is the cost of the rules. No need for hardbacks to jack up the price $20. No need for pages and pages of color pictures, a dozen would be fine. And the cost of the digital formations, $16 for 1 page worth of rules that they don't even have to make a physical copy of is absolutely indefensible.

The other aspect of course is that all those nice pictures of painted models are arguably nothing more than adverts for their product range.

Hence why in the 5th and 6th edition book they put them between the unit entries and point cost sections - so that you see them over and over when you build your armies.

(And, in 7th they just made their pictures take up about 2/3 of each unit's entry - with the rules crammed in at the bottom).

Its a complicated question. On the one hand if you design something, make it, and provide it to customers you should also be able to dictate the price at least to an extent. After all how else would one gauge artistic talents and vreative works? However by catering to heavily to particular demographic or pricing bracket you can deter customers from other markets... or even drive away previous customers.

I'm really not one to ask about pricepoints. I designed a swimsuit a while back for work that is currently being sold for $730. Its not a price that I dictated but rather a figure devised by the company that hired me. I'm happy with the percentile that I receive and I'm told that the suit is selling nicely. But it's still only about $80 of raw material and that's being generous.

How in the name of God can GW justify charging 79.99 for a box of ten Battle Sisters? Are they on bath salts or something?

What gets me, aside from the high prices, are the lack of sales. Would a weekly, rotating sale of a different model at 15-25% off really hurt GW's image that much? I can't see how it would. If anything, it would spark more interest and dialogue about that model! People would buy it and others in that army, and sales would increase for the normally-priced models.

Anyone think the GW bundles are a good way to go for both GW and us? Are the prices in the bundles acceptable, or does them being bundled kill it? For example from the SM SF and SF Ultra ($US from a discounter):

Land Raider: $51 (RRP $80)
Storm Raven: $51 (RRP $80)
New SM Tac Squad: $24 (RRP $40)
Terminators: $30 (RRP $50)

The tac squad is even cheaper than recasts like this for example. 30% bundle discount +~20-25% discounter discount.

 Yonan wrote:
Anyone think the GW bundles are a good way to go for both GW and us? Are the prices in the bundles acceptable, or does them being bundled kill it?

Well, for a start, we'll have to assume that the bundle does indeed offer a discount - rather than one of their "deals" where several models are bundled together for the sum total of those models.

Anyway, when I look at a lot of those deals, I find myself thinking "yeah, that's about what those models should cost *before* the deal."

They're better than nothing... usually, but they're still little more than a band-aid over GW's massive pricing issue.

I picked up the Battle company (bottom of the book shelf), I believe it was 450$ USD. That comes down to 45 bucks for a 10 man squad and rhino, pretty good deal I think.

 Pacific wrote:
No price reduction would convince me to play 40k for the time being, with the rules in the current state they are, and the current influx of Playmobil-esque giant plastics carpet-bombing the poor bloody infantry.

But, I would probably get some of the LoTR range if they were something like 50-66% of their current asking price. The current price just seems like price-gouging, and unfortunately my sense of principle outweighs how much I want the minis..

Yea, I originally bought all my models ten years ago, then took a long hiatus. I would never have gotten into the game at today's prices.

40% drop off of rrp would bring me back.

What would be the result if we all (here at dakka) signed some kind of petition or letter regarding this matter.

We could send them also a copy of this thread so it's clear what people think about their strict sales prices with chance of customer discounts or benefits.

Would it push them to rethink things through or would it just get the silent treatment and covertly become binned at the same time of delivery?

What would we as a community do to maybe get some kind of light shed on this subject.

I have to say this though for customer support they did quickly resolve my personally tiff with a local games workshop near Kensington high st in London. During work hours I dragged myself with my 2 year old kid in a pram to get there just before closing to find out they had closed without warning to the public to host some little snot nosed posh kids birthday party where they didn't want to serve customers. I was like WTF??? You serious? I reported the cow who blocked me entrance from my fury and to my surprise I was gifted £15 in vouchers for my troubles. Which I went on to purchase my sanguinary guard for just a fiver. Not bad I thought in the end.

Why don't they just do things like this to reward it's paying customers in the first place. I spent for example 200 quid in on year. If they gave me a £20 voucher to say thanks valued customer I would feel chuffed. Even for a poxy 10% return.

 kerikhaos wrote:
What would be the result if we all (here at dakka) signed some kind of petition or letter regarding this matter.

We could send them also a copy of this thread so it's clear what people think about their strict sales prices with chance of customer discounts or benefits.

Would it push them to rethink things through or would it just get the silent treatment and covertly become binned at the same time of delivery?

What would we as a community do to maybe get some kind of light shed on this subject.

They wouldn't care one whit.

Hmmm the other thing I've overlooked with they don't do discounts is the blood angels battle force. This with individual boxes would be worth around £89 but they charge I think £70 so they save you a big €19.

Not forgetting if you get this from dark sphere it comes to an ultra low £52.

So there is something that doses save you some credits at GW. I'm sure there must be other gear too

 RatBot wrote:

 kerikhaos wrote:
What would be the result if we all (here at dakka) signed some kind of petition or letter regarding this matter.

We could send them also a copy of this thread so it's clear what people think about their strict sales prices with chance of customer discounts or benefits.

Would it push them to rethink things through or would it just get the silent treatment and covertly become binned at the same time of delivery?

What would we as a community do to maybe get some kind of light shed on this subject.

They wouldn't care one whit.

Haha, read the GW annual report thread.

 jabbakahut wrote:

 RatBot wrote:

 kerikhaos wrote:
What would be the result if we all (here at dakka) signed some kind of petition or letter regarding this matter.

We could send them also a copy of this thread so it's clear what people think about their strict sales prices with chance of customer discounts or benefits.

Would it push them to rethink things through or would it just get the silent treatment and covertly become binned at the same time of delivery?

What would we as a community do to maybe get some kind of light shed on this subject.

They wouldn't care one whit.

Haha, read the GW annual report thread.

Everyone who hasn't really should.

We do no demographic research, we have no focus groups, we do not ask the market what it wants.

Something else to consider - if GW did drop their prices, then in order for sales volume to make up for the loss of profit per model, they'd likely have to attract back new customers or tempt back existing players who stopped buying due to outrageous prices/rules. And, currently, neither seems likely.

With regard to the latter, GW has spent about a decade doing everything it can to alienate its playerbase. So, expecting a large number of them to return would be dicey (pun entirely intended), to say the least.

But, whatever, who cares as long as there are new players to replace them, right? Well, imagine you've heard a bit about this "warhammer 40k" thing. You've maybe heard a few scraps, but little else. Now, go on the GW website and pretend you're looking to find out more about the game and/or the setting.

Do you see the problem? The complete lack of *anything* telling you what 40k is or what it's about. The complete lack of any articles to give you advice on where to start. The complete lack of any information whatsoever about what each of the races is about.

Be honest, if you went on the site with no prior information, would you even think that GW made those miniatures? Or, would you think that you'd misheard/misread the company name and ended up on some similarly-named tacky webstore by mistake?

Basically, if GW is to change prices, then they need to change their mindset too. More specifically, they need to start considering their customers (and potential customers) and human beings - rather than walking wallets.

I agree totally - their mindset needs changing but for that some market managers need to get axed and a fresh campaign to begin. Thus can happen by either the company plummets into super losses or it gets bought out by another company with a head screwed on right for these things

Another example of a bad offer at GW is the box set armored might at £495, if bought in boxes? Yep £495......lame