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 Deathwinger wrote:

 loki old fart wrote:
Seen the share price lately ?

Maybe people are waking up, to the mess GW's in.

A stock chart over the course of a month doesn't necessarily mean anything. Look at July 21st, the stock was lower than it is currently.

 TheAuldGrump wrote:
Nor does the value of the stock necessarily indicate the health of the company.

In this case... I believe the stock to be over valued, but that has more to do with the stock market than what the survival of the company looks like.

I sometimes wonder if a good deal of the initial stock for GW was bought by gamers, folks that wanted a slice of GW to call their own... Only for that first wave to sell of the stock, bit by bit, as life happens, as life so often does.

College, marriage, a child, a child going to college....

The Auld Grump

I think it shows anticipation of the end of year report, and peoples reaction to it.
I also think people re reading it are possibly wondering about their investment.
Taken from GW share chat
c4darkmane

http://investor.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/2013-14-Press-statement-final-website.pdf

reading this i feel they have their head in the sand, further more they dont appear to acknowledge the competition, yes they are the only people who make their branded items, however a portion of their community is made up of people who like strategy tabletop games and will jump ship if another producer has a better game. with that in mind both Privateer Press and Fantasy Flight have been gaining market share. then we have people who will play the game but by models either from the 2nd hand market or go to companies who make similar looking models and in some cases better quality or more unique looking figures.
Kickstarter has funded a large amount of miniatures games over the last year and while they may not last, they buzz created by these launches could be drawing attention away from Games Workshop. One company Mantic have been quiet successfully using kickstarter for their miniature games, acting almost as a pre-order system which could minimise losses by gauging the appeal of the product before they go into full production.

Hi Fagen39, while i agree with everything else youve posted, in defence of GamesWorkshop they do produce e-books both for their novels and rules of the game for a variety of operating systems, however they seem quiet expensive.

Oldgasbag yes in the store they have cut back on their IP to only 3 ranges of which Lord of the Rings seems to be slowly falling away in popularity. however they licences out to fantasyflight the rights to produce roleplay books and boardgames.

i wonder what the future holds.
Posts: 3

Their income from licences amounts to a small percentage of their total turnover. GW lives and dies by the two core games of 40K and Fantasy.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Their income from licences amounts to a small percentage of their total turnover. GW lives and dies by the two core games of 40K and Fantasy.

Which, by all accounts, seems to have become just the one game, 40k, which may also be on the way out...

 jonolikespie wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Their income from licences amounts to a small percentage of their total turnover. GW lives and dies by the two core games of 40K and Fantasy.

Which, by all accounts, seems to have become just the one game, 40k, which may also be on the way out...

Fantasy seems being unplayable due to bad ruleset and partly being much more expensive than 40k.

The ruleset is not actually too bad in 8th edition. It's not great but it's okay. The main problem is the huge numbers of expensive troops required to make an army. Fantasy armies are even more expensive than 40K armies.

 Kilkrazy wrote:

If I don't want to spend all that money, my 40K armies are still perfectly useable with the 4th and 5th edition rules, which I still own as do many people, or I can make an agreement with a potential opponent to play using 6th edition, which I own, but not to use any of the 6th and 7th edition units.

Up to a point. If you've got a group that like that idea, then you're set. But as time passes, you'll find fewer and fewer people who play those older editions, or who can even make an army without the newer units. I know several people who cannot get a 1500 point list together if you tell them not to use things like riptides and wraithknights.

 Da Boss wrote:
The ruleset is not actually too bad in 8th edition. It's not great but it's okay. The main problem is the huge numbers of expensive troops required to make an army. Fantasy armies are even more expensive than 40K armies.

Seconded.
Fantasy desperately needs a new rule set.
But it seems that GW puts all its eggs into 40k now. A stupid decision.

Their issue is that they forgot all about Fantasy.

If they could fall back and make the fantasy line products compatible with each other, they would give people a reason to buy it. Instead, the RPG went in one direction, the tabletop went in another, and the whole line suffers from the misdirection and urge to sell expensive power rangers.

Combine that with the LOTR shenanigans, and its little wonder that GW claims now, after all these years that they sell toys and shell out the IP for others to do better with.

I'm not sure a new rules set would fix fantasy. People want a big units fantasy battles game, but they just don't want to pay those prices. They could bring it back to 20 man blocks as standard I guess.

 Redbeard wrote:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

If I don't want to spend all that money, my 40K armies are still perfectly useable with the 4th and 5th edition rules, which I still own as do many people, or I can make an agreement with a potential opponent to play using 6th edition, which I own, but not to use any of the 6th and 7th edition units.

Up to a point. If you've got a group that like that idea, then you're set. But as time passes, you'll find fewer and fewer people who play those older editions, or who can even make an army without the newer units. I know several people who cannot get a 1500 point list together if you tell them not to use things like riptides and wraithknights.

I think the way forwards may be to skip two or three editions and return to 40K in a couple of years if GW is still around.

 Da Boss wrote:
I'm not sure a new rules set would fix fantasy. People want a big units fantasy battles game, but they just don't want to pay those prices. They could bring it back to 20 man blocks as standard I guess.

I'm expecting a brand new 3 volume slipcase edition of fantasy rushed before christmas. Bring in unbound so people can make OP mix and match armies - sorry, "forge a narrative". Change a couple of phases slightly to force existing players to buy it at £50+ a ruleset. Oh yeah and put emphasis on massive new kits with the most expensive plastic:cash spent ratio. Voila; WHFB 9. :-(

 Gimgamgoo wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
I'm not sure a new rules set would fix fantasy. People want a big units fantasy battles game, but they just don't want to pay those prices. They could bring it back to 20 man blocks as standard I guess.

I'm expecting a brand new 3 volume slipcase edition of fantasy rushed before christmas. Bring in unbound so people can make OP mix and match armies - sorry, "forge a narrative". Change a couple of phases slightly to force existing players to buy it at £50+ a ruleset. Oh yeah and put emphasis on massive new kits with the most expensive plastic:cash spent ratio. Voila; WHFB 9. :-(

Promote this man! He's a genius.

-Tom Kirby

Well, the upcoming Grey Knights codex shows no current plans to adjust for the worsening financials of GW, though whether future releases will be radically different is another issue.

But with Grey Knights, we see all of the typical behaviors- increased price by ~60% for a hardback cover, removal of units that are then ported into dataslates, and barely anything in terms of actual changes to the rules in the codex. And some might say "well, if it's not broke why fix it?" to which I would reply "great, now why are we having to buy a nearly identical book??"

Even with new models I don't see much appeal for these sorts of books. Seriously, what argument can people make other than it's more "current?" I don't want a subscription-based game...at least, not with the frequency level and lack of quality change that the new rulebooks/codices have been running at.

I can really only see die-hard, buy-it-no-mater-what-because-it's-GW fans interested excited about this. Some will drop out, and the majority of the customer base will begrudgingly go along with it. Is that what GW wants? It's customers begrudgingly buying their updates?

 Accolade wrote:
Is that what GW wants? It's customers begrudgingly buying their updates?

Current management doesn't care how you feel - they just assume you will buy whatever they sell. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who do buy whatever they sell and on top of that have seemingly convinced themselves that it is GREAT. If you read the news threads just regarding the GK example, you can find an unhealthy number of people who are not only satisfied with paying more for less - but seem to think it is a good thing.

Yep the clear sidegrade and regurgitation turned me off within one purchase cycle and "murderfang and the sleigh" were the final nails in the coffin. I started tail of fifth, bought into sixth - BRB + 2 dexes (CSM+SM) and I'm already not buying any more. I don't regret my entry to 40k because I'm really enjoying assembling and painting my armies and will no doubt use them with another system at some stage but if GW wants to stop me buying their stuff, that's their loss. There's plenty more fish in the sea now that I'm into tabletop. Mantic and FFG get the lions share of my monies int he future I imagine, with some DZC for good measure. And there's always China for anything like primarchs ; p

Don't dare speak of such "negative prospects" to folks willing to purchase what was once in one now in three books for triple the price. That would be just dreadful.

I actually might buy a Sled just for lulz because it's that stupid, but if that's the market you want to cater to, more power to yah. I can't see how a rehash and points tweak of the same codex is going to win anyone over, more so with the splitting of rules and forcing purchase of Apple devices (I have one, for the record) for Codex Inquisition (or is it in ebook form now?). Either way, some folks don't want that, so they aren't going to be pleased that they are suddenly and surprisingly losing access to units they based their army on and now only behind a paywall and in a manner they don't like.

I could see getting a sled (preferably second hand form someone who realized "wtf was I thinking?!") and then trolling the hell out of it/gw/sw's. I still "get" every codex, but I still feel cheated because it's barely worth the effort anymore as in many ways they're objectively worse than the previous codices.

The business model of DLC is, depending on implementation good, accepted or downright disgusting on PC. Given the extra barriers to it on tabletop rules I think the best possible is "acceptable" but GW does it even worse than I've seen from the bad implementations on PC, and more like the bad microtransactions from mobile games that thankfully I have no experience with.

I no longer even go out of my way to research the new releases. I get enough out of the release threads and leaks to make a sensible thought of "No."

It's true, I might secretly hold out hope that "this one, this will be the release that makes me come back!" Blood Angels could do it. I doubt it, at this point, if this is the trend. My last actual army is pretty much unplayable, if the rumors are true, without at least a $50 model purchase (more Paladins) not including the new dex.

Well, for decades, the only time a new codex is genuinely a marvellous and welcome production is when it is either a brand new faction (Tau in 2001) or a complete revision/rerelease of a long neglected existing faction (Dark Eldar in 2010 after a 10+ year gap).

Everything else is an upgrade containing some tweaks, a few new units and accompanying new rules.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
Well, for decades, the only time a new codex is genuinely a marvellous and welcome production is when it is either a brand new faction (Tau in 2001) or a complete revision/rerelease of a long neglected existing faction (Dark Eldar in 2010 after a 10+ year gap).

Everything else is an upgrade containing some tweaks, a few new units and accompanying new rules.

Spoken like someone who doesn't play CSM/BT/SoB (Or: "everything else" isn't quite true )

I don't play any of those, though I would be interested in Sisters in the right circumstances.

Do you mean that the new codexes for those factions weren't even worthy as an upgrade with a few tweaks, etc?

I think he means that they were a downgrade rather than an upgrade, or maybe a sidegrade. CSM is certainly highly flawed at both a rule and fluff level though I didn't play the one before it whereas the 'necron dex is despite some poor internal balancing good on both fronts and as I understand it a huge upgrade ruleswise over the previous one and a huge retcon of the previous fluff. That's worth a new 'dex. The CSM was not (imo).

CSM got gutted, Sisters got "disappeared" and BT got rolled into SM.

All I'm saying is that sometimes Codex releases are A Bad Thing* too

*Depending on your view point. I'd also add axing Chapter Approved to that list.

 Baragash wrote:
CSM got gutted, Sisters got "disappeared" and BT got rolled into SM.

All I'm saying is that sometimes Codex releases are A Bad Thing* too

*Depending on your view point. I'd also add axing Chapter Approved to that list.

You are clearly not the discerning collector of the best models in the world that Kirby - and therefore GW - wants/needs/has.

 Mr. Burning wrote:

 Baragash wrote:
CSM got gutted, Sisters got "disappeared" and BT got rolled into SM.

All I'm saying is that sometimes Codex releases are A Bad Thing* too

*Depending on your view point. I'd also add axing Chapter Approved to that list.

You are clearly not the discerning collector of the best models in the world that Kirby - and therefore GW - wants/needs/has.

Every time I think about the "objects of jewel-like wonder" I can't help but imagine TK all Gollum-like in the Lenton basement with a Finecast Calgar on his palm whispering "my precioussssssssssssss...."

So are we thinking that the release of this Grey Knight codex demonstrates GW in its death throes? Not a single new kit for no good reason. They could have given us a bike unit or something.

It's strange as I imagine Grey Knights were one of the more popular armies of the last few years.

 Medium of Death wrote:
So are we thinking that the release of this Grey Knight codex demonstrates GW in its death throes? Not a single new kit for no good reason. They could have given us a bike unit or something.

It's strange as I imagine Grey Knights were one of the more popular armies of the last few years.

I wouldn't say death throes as such but it seems clear (at least to me anyway) from the recent ramping up of the release schedule combined with the drop in new kits that GW are looking for the quickest return as possible. It is far, far easier for them to throw together some artwork, fluff and rules into a 'new' book and get it printed than it is to design, tool and produce a new plastic kit, not to mention the large investment costs in doing so. Obviously, GW are at the stage now where they need to start making positive figures and I guess they figure the best way to push up sales in the short term is to churn out new books so people have to buy them. However, one thing I think it is indicative of, is just how short term GW are thinking right now. This recent bad report has really affected their outlook I think. They are thinking about how to drive up sales in the immediate now rather than worrying about the long term future. I can't help but think it will be damaging in the long run for them though.

I don't think that death throes is a huge exaggeration. They must be starting to hit diminishing returns on the new accelerated rules release schedule, given that it seems like each new book has less effort put into it than the last.

Can't see how Grey Knights will help. They aren't really a true SM army, they are more an add on for when fighting Chaos, or that's how I remember them being when they bought the 1st Codex out. Nice models, but all geared up for smacking Daemons down, either by HH weapons or weapons with short / standard ranges. Can't see that much of a rush for them.

 Medium of Death wrote:
So are we thinking that the release of this Grey Knight codex demonstrates GW in its death throes? Not a single new kit for no good reason. They could have given us a bike unit or something.

It's strange as I imagine Grey Knights were one of the more popular armies of the last few years.

Grey Knights suddenly became very popular when their previous codex was released because it was very strong and a whole load of new models came out at the same time.

It is a bit odd that GW would bother to release a new codex without models if they see themselves as a model selling company. However I think part of their strategy is to make a lot of money from the books too.