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Maybe the rumours of a skirmish WFB are just a new type of "introductory" set to get new players into the game.

Then, after collecting a skirmish army, they could have the option of expanding it to fit the standard WFB rules.

That could make the cost of starting an army for anew player less expensive.

That sounds like a wonderful idea and good business plan.

Which makes it almost certainly not true!

 curran12 wrote:
And your source?

Sorry, but calling it BS is not 'hate', this needs a MOUNTAIN of salt to go with it.

But it's also completely non-productive.

OT: It would be an interesting direction if they chose to go that route. I know in my local area, there's lots of love for the old Mordheim and Necromunda systems. If they brought in something like that, especially if it included decent campaign rules, it would be really interesting.

Conversely, there are people who have huge armies with literally hundreds of models that might be more upset if the system didn't include rules for significantly larger battles.

 Pacific wrote:
That sounds like a wonderful idea and good business plan.

Which makes it almost certainly not true!

Correct in both!!

Said it before, saying it again:

With the amount of times that GW shops are running Regiments of Renown, I would not be surprised at all to see that become the new introductory method.

 Pacific wrote:
That sounds like a wonderful idea and good business plan.

Which makes it almost certainly not true!

GW does many things very well, especially on the manufacturing end.

They aren't that good at manufacturing, actually. Their plastic moulding technology is at least 10 years behind the rest of the model kit/toy industry. Their recent kit design is going backwards, with less poseability and fewer options included and a higher price.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
They aren't that good at manufacturing, actually. Their plastic moulding technology is at least 10 years behind the rest of the model kit/toy industry. Their recent kit design is going backwards, with less poseability and fewer options included and a higher price.

Compared to model kit manufacturers like Dragon and Bandai I'd agree, compared to other wargames miniatures I'd still say they are far ahead.

When I say they are pretty good at manufacturing, I'm also taking into account their equipment, methods and processes etc. How streamlined their facility is, standardization etc.

NO I AM SICK AND FRAKKING TIRED OF SKRMISH GAMES THAT INVOLVE ONLY LIKE 5 METAL UNPOSABLE MINAITURES

THE REASON WHY PEOPLE PLAY WARHAMMER FANTASY IS FOR THE LARGE REGIMENTAL BASED ARMIES NOT FOR A BUNCH OF OVERPOWERED SKIMPILY DRESSED FEMALE ELF MAGES TO BE SHOOTING SPELLS AT EACH OTHER

ATXMILEY wrote:
NO I AM SICK AND FRAKKING TIRED OF SKRMISH GAMES THAT INVOLVE ONLY LIKE 5 METAL UNPOSABLE MINAITURES

Stop playing them then? And lay off the coffee at the same time?

ATXMILEY wrote:
NO I AM SICK AND FRAKKING TIRED OF SKRMISH GAMES THAT INVOLVE ONLY LIKE 5 METAL UNPOSABLE MINAITURES

THE REASON WHY PEOPLE PLAY WARHAMMER FANTASY IS FOR THE LARGE REGIMENTAL BASED ARMIES NOT FOR A BUNCH OF OVERPOWERED SKIMPILY DRESSED FEMALE ELF MAGES TO BE SHOOTING SPELLS AT EACH OTHER

 Riquende wrote:

ATXMILEY wrote:
NO I AM SICK AND FRAKKING TIRED OF SKRMISH GAMES THAT INVOLVE ONLY LIKE 5 METAL UNPOSABLE MINAITURES

Stop playing them then? And lay off the coffee at the same time?

He might be a little crazy but I agree with the sentiment. WHFB is the only regimental based game that people play around here. There's tons of skirmish games, do we really need WHFB to be turned in to another one?

But that said, I'm pretty sure I've been hearing rumours like this since 3rd edition. I doubt anything will come of them. Ideally the best thing would be a another release of Mordheim or something similar.

... hmm ..

.. Whilst any upset or frustration is understandable let's endeavour to make any posts a bit more worthwhile and less aggressive moving forwards please.

Posting in all caps doesn't really make ones' point more valid either.

Thank you.

 Orock wrote:
Again, all I have is what I have heard from others, and a gw store employee who said they stopped producing square bases (but not calvary bases). Rumor is that 9th was supposed to be done this year, but after looking at market loss to other games like warmahordes the decision was made to turn it into a more skirmish game, with far fewer models, and basic army boxes to be released ala old school mordheim. Rules will be included to play with your whole collection still, but they are more for big campaigns or apocalypse style battles like in 40k. They are shooting for the equivalent of 500 point games with individual models having more specialized rules and abilities, also like warmahordes. Now normally I don't spout this kind of stuff, since I have no concrete proof and it seems so far away from what gw would do. But I began hearing this about 3 months ago, and its been talked about a lot lately. It would make sense why they pushed back bertonia so long. My question is have you heard anything about this kind of change at all?

FOR THOSE WHO JUST WANT TO CHIME IN "THATS BS, WILL NEVER HAPPEN" I just want to start a thread to consolidate some of these rumors going around. Please don't just chime in with hate or to say how stupid the rumor is.

This is BS. It's already happened.

We had an ongoing game of Mordhiem/ Empire in Flames. The game is a great way to build an army and play with different squads, as you add onto the larger group. Then you use Mighty Empires to build up the map based campaign system. Armys were used in the old 3d edition base list, with a champion, and the ranked regiment.

Unfortunately its around 15 years too late, but damn was that a great game.

Of course if they could go back to that way, I'd pick up a couple of those boxed sets, and go to town on them again. Might even be worth a go, now that I'm thinking back on it.

Those were pretty fun times.

If they did something like that, I might even think about playing fantasy again, that Idea is really a cool one, when you play a game. It makes things like taking your champion, and a cou8ple of henchmen into a game of Warhammer Quest for a new sword, or magic treasures worth playing, just so you can add onto your army. Imagine a chaos player, coming across a necromancer with a few ranks of Undead, adding him as a merc faction to his army, and then coming across a band of beastmen, and adding them as part of the whole?

It would be like playing Lost and The Damned/ Slaves to Darkness all over again. Only thing missing would be the D100 tables.

At the point fantasy is now? they can't do anything that could screw it up any worse then it is at this point. Only place to go is up or out.

Well the latest Warhammerfest newsletter saya

AN ANCIENT ENEMY RETURNS IN OUR SPECIAL NARRATIVE GAMING FEATURE.

Come along and bear witness to the bloody return of one of the Old World's deadliest foes in our special narrative gaming event.

so it does sound like the Nagash rumour is right, and with it a bit of fantasy content

It's not Nagash, it's gonna be Matt Ward.

 Fenrir Kitsune wrote:
It's not Nagash, it's gonna be Matt Ward.

Please keep that BS confined to the Ward thread.

So I haven't seen the actual rumors posted, here they are:

Arthurius11
Fantasy Rumors - Aug 2014
Have some more "rumours" in regard to the end times campaign coming, as usual take them as you will.

Along with Nagash and the vampire releases I mentioned earlier there will also be new release models for tomb kings, skaven, chaos and dark elves.

Thanquol and bone ripper will be getting there own new models along with a new plastic vermin lord. There will also be new fantasy terrain.

That is all I know atm.

There will be a new Nagash model.


Darnok:
Fantasy Rumors - Aug 2014
a "big thing" for WHF at the end of August - sadly no details, but the notion of "the shape of things to come!" ... confirmed as being the return of Nagash
Nurgle gets some love in October: a book, 3 plastic kits and a clampack - again, sadly no details about this

New Skaven you say?

And a new Vermin Lord at that?


I'll be in my bunk.

Kill team fantasy would be interesting to me. As is, I am not interested in WH Fantasy.

I'd like to echo other comments upthread: If WFB became a skirmish game, then I'd stop playing it. I like having lots of dudes on the table. It looks great, and it is a visual that I can't get elsewhere. I tried playing Bushido, a skirmish game, but I just hated the fact that we had a table devoid of guys. I wanted more! So I came back to Fantasy.

It is entirely possible that a skirmish version would appeal to lots of guys, and make them buy into it. But I am fairly sure that it would instantly destroy the WFB fanbase as it currently stands. Even a comparison to 40k's Apocalypse isn't valid, as that doesn't change the type of game that it is.

I wonder sometimes why you don't get other mass battle games in the Fantasy/Sci Fi hobby, and I suspect that the answer is to do with the manufacturing effort behind providing that many sculpts and models. But you certainly don't get the visual elements of WFB elsewhere, unless you move to Fields of Glory, DBA and other historical rulesets. And the guys who play those can be gnarly.

 Charles Rampant wrote:
I'd like to echo other comments upthread: If WFB became a skirmish game, then I'd stop playing it. I like having lots of dudes on the table. It looks great, and it is a visual that I can't get elsewhere. I tried playing Bushido, a skirmish game, but I just hated the fact that we had a table devoid of guys. I wanted more! So I came back to Fantasy.

It's more likely GW would release a new "type" of WFB game that is compatible with their current game than to discontinue their entire game for something else.

The example I mentioned earlier about a smaller, entry-level skirmish game to draw new players into the hobby would be more plausible. Then those players could expand to the "regular" WFB game if they wanted to.

 Charles Rampant wrote:
I wonder sometimes why you don't get other mass battle games in the Fantasy/Sci Fi hobby, and I suspect that the answer is to do with the manufacturing effort behind providing that many sculpts and models.

Manufacturing a large number of models really isn't that difficult. Most companies build their catalog over a long period of time, not all at once. It could also have to do with inflation and the current economy.

Maybe companies aren't making such large-scale games from the start because they see players on forums complaining about the high entry cost for those games, so they choose to make something smaller. Then maybe later on they can expand the game (like PP did).

 Charles Rampant wrote:
I'd like to echo other comments upthread: If WFB became a skirmish game, then I'd stop playing it. I like having lots of dudes on the table. It looks great, and it is a visual that I can't get elsewhere. I tried playing Bushido, a skirmish game, but I just hated the fact that we had a table devoid of guys. I wanted more! So I came back to Fantasy.

It is entirely possible that a skirmish version would appeal to lots of guys, and make them buy into it. But I am fairly sure that it would instantly destroy the WFB fanbase as it currently stands. Even a comparison to 40k's Apocalypse isn't valid, as that doesn't change the type of game that it is.

I wonder sometimes why you don't get other mass battle games in the Fantasy/Sci Fi hobby, and I suspect that the answer is to do with the manufacturing effort behind providing that many sculpts and models. But you certainly don't get the visual elements of WFB elsewhere, unless you move to Fields of Glory, DBA and other historical rulesets. And the guys who play those can be gnarly.

Just curious, do you like the fact that year after year there are less fantasy players, and nobody to replenish the ranks, not because of poor gameplay, but because of outright cost alone? If you are living in an area with a thriving fantasy community, you had better not move, because I can tell you from experience you are not the norm anymore. I don't think I have seen a new fantasy player here in 3+ years. Boxes of product get sold sometimes, but mostly for 40k conversions, or just owning awesome to look at models.

 kronk wrote:
Kill team fantasy would be interesting to me. As is, I am not interested in WH Fantasy.

It's less "Kill Team Fantasy" and more "Mordheim Unbound"...
Search around for "Regiments of Renown" rules. They should still be floating in the aether.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pretre wrote:
So I haven't seen the actual rumors posted, here they are:

Arthurius11
Fantasy Rumors - Aug 2014
Have some more "rumours" in regard to the end times campaign coming, as usual take them as you will.

Along with Nagash and the vampire releases I mentioned earlier there will also be new release models for tomb kings, skaven, chaos and dark elves.

Thanquol and bone ripper will be getting there own new models along with a new plastic vermin lord. There will also be new fantasy terrain.

That is all I know atm.

There will be a new Nagash model.


Darnok:
Fantasy Rumors - Aug 2014
a "big thing" for WHF at the end of August - sadly no details, but the notion of "the shape of things to come!" ... confirmed as being the return of Nagash
Nurgle gets some love in October: a book, 3 plastic kits and a clampack - again, sadly no details about this

For the love of God, release a bloody Vampire Count on foot wearing plate armor.

ALL I ASK! I need one to match my Vampire Count on Zombie Dragon.

 Charles Rampant wrote:
I'd like to echo other comments upthread: If WFB became a skirmish game, then I'd stop playing it. I like having lots of dudes on the table. It looks great, and it is a visual that I can't get elsewhere. I tried playing Bushido, a skirmish game, but I just hated the fact that we had a table devoid of guys. I wanted more! So I came back to Fantasy.

Nothing prevents you of continue playing the last version of the game. Although as it was said before it wouldn't make any sense for GW to completely abandon WFB but rather to introduce a second, smaller in size game next to it. That way it can at the same time introduce new players to the "big" game and keep the old players, who could also use their minis on a new setting.

For that reason I don't see it reasonable for GW to switch the Fantasy bases from square to round. Although round bases are more common fr skirmish games, several of them were using square bases such old Confrontation, Reaper's Warlord (even if it is not supported very much) and Freebooter's Fate. Probably there are more that I don't recall at the moment.

 Orock wrote:

 Charles Rampant wrote:
I'd like to echo other comments upthread: If WFB became a skirmish game, then I'd stop playing it. I like having lots of dudes on the table. It looks great, and it is a visual that I can't get elsewhere. I tried playing Bushido, a skirmish game, but I just hated the fact that we had a table devoid of guys. I wanted more! So I came back to Fantasy.

It is entirely possible that a skirmish version would appeal to lots of guys, and make them buy into it. But I am fairly sure that it would instantly destroy the WFB fanbase as it currently stands. Even a comparison to 40k's Apocalypse isn't valid, as that doesn't change the type of game that it is.

I wonder sometimes why you don't get other mass battle games in the Fantasy/Sci Fi hobby, and I suspect that the answer is to do with the manufacturing effort behind providing that many sculpts and models. But you certainly don't get the visual elements of WFB elsewhere, unless you move to Fields of Glory, DBA and other historical rulesets. And the guys who play those can be gnarly.

Just curious, do you like the fact that year after year there are less fantasy players, and nobody to replenish the ranks, not because of poor gameplay, but because of outright cost alone? If you are living in an area with a thriving fantasy community, you had better not move, because I can tell you from experience you are not the norm anymore. I don't think I have seen a new fantasy player here in 3+ years. Boxes of product get sold sometimes, but mostly for 40k conversions, or just owning awesome to look at models.

I like that it has more players than any other game except Warmahordes, 40k or Xwing I guess? The tournament scene around here is bustling and growing, so I am happy.

A apologize for my overreacting, I was half asleep and the idea of my army which I put a lot of work and money into now being invalidated for the sake of satisfying a small niche just racked my nerves

Orock wrote:They are shooting for the equivalent of 500 point games with individual models having more specialized rules and abilities, also like warmahordes.

Ach. I'd rather they kept the same level of specialised rules and abilities, and toned that down for the 'big' game, because...

Mysterious Pants wrote:Extremely unlikely. Making fantasy skirmish-based would take quite a bit of effort, and totally change the way it plays. I mean, the whole point of Fantasy is the way the unit blocks line up and how it isn't a skirmish game. Random suspicions have no particular validity in my book.

WHFB is a skirmish game. It might have a couple of unit movement tweaks and a lot more models, but it's still essentially the same game since at least third edition. Few other mass battle wargames, except some of those derived from Warhammer, focus so much on individual models and troops for so many stats and mechanics; and I don't know if any of those come anywhere near a 40-50+ unit 'norm'. I remember the skirmish rules in the back of the 6th ed book too: same stats, same weapon rules and abilities, slight movement tweaks. (360 vision, obviously, climbing and jumping IIRC) Pretty much like original Mordheim, but with your regular Warhammer collection. I don't think it'd be such an unthinkable leap as you imagine.

I've heard the rumour before, and if it's true (I'll wait 'til I see it on the shelves) I think they've got it backwards. Like I say, adapt the current rules for 'warband' level games, where the number of minis in a game warrants that kind of micromanaging crunch and care. Make the big game more abstract, streamlined and tactical - more in line with other, popular mass battle rules - so the level of focus is on units, rather than the attacks and weapons your champion has, and how much a shield costs times X number of soldiers, and whether you have four or five guys in the back rank. GW have already got a decent example in their back catalogue that they could take cues from, and which Rick Priestly had great success with when he took it to Warlord and tweaked it for three historicals games.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Ghaz wrote:
What they need to do is keep their current WHFB line and convert it to a skirmish game. For the big battles, they should go for a smaller scale (10-12mm) and give it a catchy name like 'Warmaster' ...

While they're at it, they can do the same thing for 40K. Such a game would be truly 'Epic' ...

 Charles Rampant wrote:

 Orock wrote:

 Charles Rampant wrote:
I'd like to echo other comments upthread: If WFB became a skirmish game, then I'd stop playing it. I like having lots of dudes on the table. It looks great, and it is a visual that I can't get elsewhere. I tried playing Bushido, a skirmish game, but I just hated the fact that we had a table devoid of guys. I wanted more! So I came back to Fantasy.

It is entirely possible that a skirmish version would appeal to lots of guys, and make them buy into it. But I am fairly sure that it would instantly destroy the WFB fanbase as it currently stands. Even a comparison to 40k's Apocalypse isn't valid, as that doesn't change the type of game that it is.

I wonder sometimes why you don't get other mass battle games in the Fantasy/Sci Fi hobby, and I suspect that the answer is to do with the manufacturing effort behind providing that many sculpts and models. But you certainly don't get the visual elements of WFB elsewhere, unless you move to Fields of Glory, DBA and other historical rulesets. And the guys who play those can be gnarly.

Just curious, do you like the fact that year after year there are less fantasy players, and nobody to replenish the ranks, not because of poor gameplay, but because of outright cost alone? If you are living in an area with a thriving fantasy community, you had better not move, because I can tell you from experience you are not the norm anymore. I don't think I have seen a new fantasy player here in 3+ years. Boxes of product get sold sometimes, but mostly for 40k conversions, or just owning awesome to look at models.

I like that it has more players than any other game except Warmahordes, 40k or Xwing I guess? The tournament scene around here is bustling and growing, so I am happy.

See, that explains it. Your in the minority, and by minority, I mean like 1% of local areas who not only have some die hard fans still playing,but actually growing. The rest of the world has either been priced out, moved on, or frustrated that people are priced out and moved on with nobody to play against, so had moved on selected for them.

 Platuan4th wrote:
Not unless they've changed their rules so that models are individual models and not just counters to determine the starting amount.

One: they're counters already, and two: whaddya want individual wee guys to fuss over in a 2,000-3,000pts game fer? Loads of other rulesets don't bother with that and get on fine.

 Charles Rampant wrote:

I wonder sometimes why you don't get other mass battle games in the Fantasy/Sci Fi hobby, and I suspect that the answer is to do with the manufacturing effort behind providing that many sculpts and models.

King of War, Hordes of the Things, Mayhem, Fantasy Warriors, Realm - Fantasy Warfare, Armies of Arcana, Fantasy Rules!, Reaper Warlord, God of Battles, Impetus Fantasticus...

Not all have a range of minis to sell, but that mostly means that they're not developed to try to sell a range of minis.