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2014/08/16 02:33:53
Subject: Re:Warhammer Fantasy Battle: The End is Nigh.....pics 1st post.
I think the model is pretty cool, worthy of the epicness (which if you think about it in terms of GW, 'epic' is something that's smaller!) which is Nagash.
It's funny, I see all these figures coming out these days, which I'd never have thought would be produced in 28mm 15+ years ago, like Primarchs (yeah, yeah, Leman Russ), Khorne Deathdealers (oh, I'm sorry, Lerd ov Skulz...), and Dread Saurians. And I can't help but think, When will GW finally make the 'Chaos God' plastic kit? Build as Khorne, Tzeentch, or Slaanesh. Nurgle will come out 10 years after that as a dual kit which also makes a hive city.
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2014/08/16 02:44:11
Subject: Warhammer Fantasy Battle: The End is Nigh.....pics 1st post.
So what is this and why is it 40k lookin'? EDIT: Did some thought thinkin' and realized that the aquilla is probably on the glass of the shop. Hrm. Pretty sure.
I fully expect the "Undead Legion" to be something where you can take Nagash in a smaller army. GW don't strike me as the sort of company willing to release a model that most people aren't going to be able to use.
2014/08/16 03:21:34
Subject: Warhammer Fantasy Battle: The End is Nigh.....pics 1st post.
Jehan-reznor wrote: Well it i better than the previous version, but i rather would like to see some better pictures. But if WFB is going unbound can i field 4 Nagash's in a 4000 pts game?
Lol. You'd need a LOT of spare models in your bag. Okay, so Nagash 1 summons 60 skeletons. Hang on...there. Now Nagash 2 summons 50 skeletons. Give me a min...alright. So Nagash 3 summons...86 ghouls.
Mantic undead, easy fix.
I collect:
Grand alliance death (whole alliance)
Stormcast eternals
Slaves to Darkness - currently Nurgle but may expand to undivided.
2014/08/16 03:41:02
Subject: Warhammer Fantasy Battle: The End is Nigh.....pics 1st post.
The model is a meh for me but what i find more irritating is that it is a poster boy for the scale arms race that GW are engaged in. Its annoying because GW seem more concerned with thinking up ways and means to get people to buy large, expensive kits and therefore cooking up ways to get these large, expensive kits on the tabletop. So we end up with rules to squeeze in Knights and Stompers and Wraithknights or what have you, none of which works at 28mm level. So everything else starts getting larger to compensate and the scale bloats further. It is cart before horse; the models are driving the game rules, not the other way round.
There are multiple mentions in the rules of "The Undead Legions".
However, if you look in the background of the photo, there's Ghouls and VC style skeletons and what look like Vargheists in the top right, so it seems that you could run VC at least partially as Nagashs army.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/16 08:24:46
2014/08/16 08:53:12
Subject: Warhammer Fantasy Battle: The End is Nigh.....pics 1st post.
I think the legions army will be one which is essentially VC without Vampires. I am guessing from the release rumours that there is some kind of apocalypse style expansion to give WFB life support til the next edition by plugging in some big kits and stuff rather than release whole new books. The rules for him suggest he's not going to plug into small games at all.
2014/08/16 09:01:42
Subject: Warhammer Fantasy Battle: The End is Nigh.....pics 1st post.
TwilightSparkles wrote: I think the legions army will be one which is essentially VC without Vampires. I am guessing from the release rumours that there is some kind of apocalypse style expansion to give WFB life support til the next edition by plugging in some big kits and stuff rather than release whole new books. The rules for him suggest he's not going to plug into small games at all.
Yeah, just like those Warhound Titans don't fit in to small games of 40k... oh wait...
I will be amazed if GW don't introduce rules to let him exist in a 2k game.
2014/08/16 10:08:00
Subject: Warhammer Fantasy Battle: The End is Nigh.....pics 1st post.
Sorry meant to say "well at all" , they aren't going to make him so he can't be used but he reads as if he will dominate a smaller game unless you tailor a specific list against him.
2014/08/16 10:29:45
Subject: Warhammer Fantasy Battle: The End is Nigh.....pics 1st post.
DiabolicAl wrote: I seem to be the only one that really doesn't care for this in the slightest. It looks like they have tried to make an Undead Treeman. In fact i would go as far as to describe it as smegging awful. Maybe better pics will help but i am not holding my breath.
Yea, I don't understand why people think this model is anything other than a POS. It is a horrible composition. I think people are just excited about it being Nagash...and not a horrible as the old model.
Isn't it amazing! People can have different opinions...
Note that I did not say that people cannot have different opinions. I said that I don't understand why people have an opinion other than mine. My deficiency in understanding is my problem, not somebody else's problem. If people enjoy the model, more power to them. But as far as I am concerned it does not look like a well-designed model to me, and I am frankly surprised that other people like it so much.
It's the way that you said it. It doesn't read nearly as charitably towards others as your later post does. I'm looking forward to better pictures and the pricetag.
So far this model does not inspire me.
If they had instead chosen to base it off this art work.
Then I probably would have gone out and spent massive amounts to field a Undead legion army.
I am just so surprised that even after all the vitrol and hate for the old model, they would once again put a giant dumb looking hat on him.
"I have traveled trough the Realm of Death and brought back novelty pencils"
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Oh, somewhere in this favored land the sun is shining bright;
the band is playing somewhere and somewhere hearts are light,and somewhere men are laughing, and somewhere children shout but there is no joy in Mudville — mighty Casey has struck out.
2014/08/16 14:51:03
Subject: Warhammer Fantasy Battle: The End is Nigh.....pics 1st post.
DiabolicAl wrote: I seem to be the only one that really doesn't care for this in the slightest. It looks like they have tried to make an Undead Treeman. In fact i would go as far as to describe it as smegging awful. Maybe better pics will help but i am not holding my breath.
Yea, I don't understand why people think this model is anything other than a POS. It is a horrible composition. I think people are just excited about it being Nagash...and not a horrible as the old model.
Isn't it amazing! People can have different opinions...
Note that I did not say that people cannot have different opinions. I said that I don't understand why people have an opinion other than mine. My deficiency in understanding is my problem, not somebody else's problem. If people enjoy the model, more power to them. But as far as I am concerned it does not look like a well-designed model to me, and I am frankly surprised that other people like it so much.
It's the way that you said it. It doesn't read nearly as charitably towards others as your later post does. I'm looking forward to better pictures and the pricetag.
Sure, hence the explanation, the polite response from the poster to whom I replied, and the polite response from me in return. People can be civil on the internet, even when someone calls something a POS. But I do think that Nagash model is a total POS.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nicorex wrote: So far this model does not inspire me.
If they had instead chosen to base it off this art work.
Spoiler:
Then I probably would have gone out and spent massive amounts to field a Undead legion army.
I am just so surprised that even after all the vitrol and hate for the old model, they would once again put a giant dumb looking hat on him.
That's exactly how I feel. Either of those pieces, but especially the top one, could have been directly translated into a really cool-looking, well-designed miniature.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/08/16 14:53:03
Kirasu: Have we fallen so far that we are excited that GW is giving us the opportunity to spend 58$ for JUST the rules? Surprised it's not "Dataslate: Assault Phase"
AlexHolker: "The power loader is a forklift. The public doesn't complain about a forklift not having frontal armour protecting the crew compartment because the only enemy it is designed to face is the OHSA violation."
AlexHolker: "Allow me to put it this way: Paramount is Skynet, reboots are termination attempts, and your childhood is John Connor."
2014/08/16 15:11:59
Subject: Re:Warhammer Fantasy Battle: The End is Nigh.....pics 1st post.
Nicorex wrote: So far this model does not inspire me. If they had instead chosen to base it off this art work.
Spoiler:
Then I probably would have gone out and spent massive amounts to field a Undead legion army. I am just so surprised that even after all the vitrol and hate for the old model, they would once again put a giant dumb looking hat on him.
I feel this way about a lot of GW releases lately. I don't hate the new Nagash model, I don't love it either, but it just feels to me GW's art department is somewhat flawed. I know people are going to harp on about "well different things to appeal to different people", and that's true to an extent, but to deny there isn't tangible rules that make things appealing or not appealing is doing a disservice to artists and art departments who put a lot of effort and iterative revision in to their work.
If you look at, oh I dunno, almost any big video game or almost any big movie, they have tons and tons of sketches and art drawn up that goes through the hands of a lot of people for suggestions and then back to the art department to make modifications and new designs. I'm not an artsy type person so I don't know what you call it, but it's basically like artistic brainstorming.
Then when the overall direction is decided and the designs get put in to motion, the designs are still going back and forth from the designers, art department and general staff/management for further input and tweaking.
Games Workshop just don't seem to do that. Soooooo many models look like some dude was told something, went to a basement and sculpted it, then it got put in to production. I just don't feel they have the refinement and love and attention that you hope for out of models these days. So many things I feel if they actually got looked at after design and before production you'd have people saying "hmm, looks good, but needs to be a bit wider/thinner/longer/get rid of these stupid little things/add detail here/remove detail there/etc/etc/etc".
Likewise, I see artwork like you just posted there and think, "crap, they must have completely failed to have any sort of artistic brainstorming session before designing that model", otherwise I can't help but think they would have gone for something like those pictures rather than what they went with, which is more just "how can we make something Egyptian but with bones".
That's not to say you can't like the new Nagash model, I'm just saying me personally with Nagash and a lot of recent releases, I'm just not feeling the level of professional quality I expect from premium priced products from the biggest player in the wargame miniatures market. If the models were half the price I definitely wouldn't care as much, but they are the ones trying to sell their product as premium and with that does come certain expectations.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/08/16 15:19:03
2014/08/16 15:45:07
Subject: Warhammer Fantasy Battle: The End is Nigh.....pics 1st post.
I read the Dwarves section and didn't it just say that they were unable to defeat Mannfreds forces - the Elves book has Mannfred return to confront the Elvish elites but she was still in their hands?
Can you quote the story bit in Dwarves as its the one book I don't have just read it?
That's the fun thing about it. The VC book mentioned the events involving Mannfred conspiring to bring back Nagash so he set a trap for the High Elves and captured Aliathra.
The High Elves book mentioned the efforts to rescue her so they were bros with the dwarves. And then it ends saying they're confronted by Mannfred's army.
Now in the Dwarves Book, we see what happens immediately after going:
"Even as his minions perished beneath gromril hammers, Mannfred hacked his way through the Elf ranks, wounding or slaying many of their heroes and once again captured Aliathra, spiriting her away into the darkness. Thus was a great victory soured. To make matters worse, Tyrion showed no gratitude to the Dwarfs, instead blaming them for the loss of Aliathra."
And now Nagash is making a return? Coincidence? I think not.
Thanks for letting me know Still not sure why Mannfred would want Nagash to return at anything like full power - he is more of a threat to him than the Elves or Dwaves - seems very odd unless he is now under the direct control of the Great Necromancer - would n't be the first Vampire lord to go that way....................
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Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
Jehan-reznor wrote: Well it i better than the previous version, but i rather would like to see some better pictures. But if WFB is going unbound can i field 4 Nagash's in a 4000 pts game?
Lol. You'd need a LOT of spare models in your bag. Okay, so Nagash 1 summons 60 skeletons. Hang on...there. Now Nagash 2 summons 50 skeletons. Give me a min...alright. So Nagash 3 summons...86 ghouls.
Mantic undead, easy fix.
My thoughts exactly, it is very nice of GW to hand Mantic such a so,I'd boost to their figures, considering they're not in the best spot themselves!
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Jehan-reznor wrote: Well it i better than the previous version, but i rather would like to see some better pictures. But if WFB is going unbound can i field 4 Nagash's in a 4000 pts game?
Lol. You'd need a LOT of spare models in your bag. Okay, so Nagash 1 summons 60 skeletons. Hang on...there. Now Nagash 2 summons 50 skeletons. Give me a min...alright. So Nagash 3 summons...86 ghouls.
Mantic undead, easy fix.
My thoughts exactly, it is very nice of GW to hand Mantic such a so,I'd boost to their figures, considering they're not in the best spot themselves!
I'm actually not a big fan of Mantic's skeletons. But for people in the market for some nice cheap basic looking skellies, check out Wargames Factory:
Either way, I can tell you from experience that finding appropriate daemons to make units out of from other manufacturers at a comparable price is tough - character models, GDs, some of the smaller model count units, sure, but lesser daemons from GW are a decent choice - whereas finding cheap Undead models by the literal bucket load is possible (I remember having "toy soldier" type plastic skellingtons when I were a lad) and decent wargaming minis a short Google away.
If their intent is to do with Undead in Fantasy what they did with daemons in 40K, they perhaps needed to spend a little more time doing their market research.
Oh, that's right, they don't do any!
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
My thoughts exactly, it is very nice of GW to hand Mantic such a so,I'd boost to their figures, considering they're not in the best spot themselves!
I'd say Wargames Factory, personally. Mantic Skeletons look like sculpts from the late 80s. I even think WGF are a better deal, on top of that.
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
2014/08/16 22:14:04
Subject: Re:Warhammer Fantasy Battle: The End is Nigh.....pics 1st post.
Nicorex wrote: So far this model does not inspire me.
If they had instead chosen to base it off this art work.
Spoiler:
Then I probably would have gone out and spent massive amounts to field a Undead legion army.
I am just so surprised that even after all the vitrol and hate for the old model, they would once again put a giant dumb looking hat on him.
Holy Mother of Sigmar... yea, if it was based on either of those, or the second, I'd be def saying take my money, please. The more the initial shock of the model wears off, the more I dislike it because of what folks have said. It is flat. It is too complicated without any visual reward. And he looks like a WoW villian and not a real scary villian.
Shine on, Kaldor Dayglow!
Not Ken Lobb
2014/08/16 22:17:25
Subject: Warhammer Fantasy Battle: The End is Nigh.....pics 1st post.
They can't sculpt him scary, little Timmy may cry.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
The new Nagash isn't really my thing. I prefer cloaks and things. There's a great conversion online done years ago using the necron Nightbringer, that's preferable IMO. This new model is rather too busy with skeletal tail things coming out everywhere and too much armour. He looks more like a knight action figure than an evil necromancer to me. Bit of a miss.
2014/08/17 00:09:04
Subject: Re:Warhammer Fantasy Battle: The End is Nigh.....pics 1st post.
Nicorex wrote: I am just so surprised that even after all the vitrol and hate for the old model, they would once again put a giant dumb looking hat on him.
Well, to be fair, Nagash is inspired by the Ancient Egyptians, who were known for having giant dumb looking hats
Spoiler:
Nothing says "I am the boss" better than a giant dumb looking hat
Also fake beards
Error 404: Interesting signature not found
2014/08/17 00:11:14
Subject: Re:Warhammer Fantasy Battle: The End is Nigh.....pics 1st post.
Nicorex wrote: So far this model does not inspire me.
If they had instead chosen to base it off this art work.
Spoiler:
Then I probably would have gone out and spent massive amounts to field a Undead legion army.
I am just so surprised that even after all the vitrol and hate for the old model, they would once again put a giant dumb looking hat on him.
Holy Mother of Sigmar... yea, if it was based on either of those, or the second, I'd be def saying take my money, please. The more the initial shock of the model wears off, the more I dislike it because of what folks have said. It is flat. It is too complicated without any visual reward. And he looks like a WoW villian and not a real scary villian.
The first one looks like he's enjoying his skiing vacation to me.
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
2014/08/17 00:30:16
Subject: Warhammer Fantasy Battle: The End is Nigh.....pics 1st post.
Kanluwen wrote: None of those look particularly "scary". They just look like skeletons with funny hats.
Kan, will you just stop it?
I mean, is disagreeing with everything everyone else says all of the time a deliberate thing you do when posting, or just your nature?
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
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Still not sure why Mannfred would want Nagash to return at anything like full power - he is more of a threat to him than the Elves or Dwaves - seems very odd unless he is now under the direct control of the Great Necromancer - would n't be the first Vampire lord to go that way....................
