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 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
If those are correct, that means the Vindicare lost his ability to auto target whoever he wanted. That just became a near useless model for me. At least he might still be good against vehicles, which goes against the entire idea of a sniper.

That was broken. -2 to LoS is still stupidly good while giving your opponent a slim chance to survive (must pass on a 6 for characters 4+ for IC).

Did you completely miss that he now needs to roll a 6 to hit what he wants to hit? He is now completely useless as a sniper.

Yeah being able to ignore ++, inflict D3 AP2 wounds, and being S10 against vehicles is completely useless...

My god if these are true then i think i could cry right about now

manly tears of joy.



St10 against vehicles and ignores cover sounds great to me.

Edit: Just noticed the 4 of them is a 600 point formation. so they are probably around the same price still.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
If those are correct, that means the Vindicare lost his ability to auto target whoever he wanted. That just became a near useless model for me. At least he might still be good against vehicles, which goes against the entire idea of a sniper.

That was broken. -2 to LoS is still stupidly good while giving your opponent a slim chance to survive (must pass on a 6 for characters 4+ for IC).

Did you completely miss that he now needs to roll a 6 to hit what he wants to hit? He is now completely useless as a sniper.

Yeah being able to ignore ++, inflict D3 AP2 wounds, and being S10 against vehicles is completely useless...

Ugh. Useless as a sniper he said. The vindicare is supposed to be better than all the other snipers. He is but only at taking out vehicles. Sniping out a character from a unit will be very rare indeed.

Super Newb wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
If those are correct, that means the Vindicare lost his ability to auto target whoever he wanted. That just became a near useless model for me. At least he might still be good against vehicles, which goes against the entire idea of a sniper.

That was broken. -2 to LoS is still stupidly good while giving your opponent a slim chance to survive (must pass on a 6 for characters 4+ for IC).

Did you completely miss that he now needs to roll a 6 to hit what he wants to hit? He is now completely useless as a sniper.

Yeah being able to ignore ++, inflict D3 AP2 wounds, and being S10 against vehicles is completely useless...

Ugh. Useless as a sniper he said. The vindicare is supposed to be better than all the other snipers. He is but only at taking out vehicles. Sniping out a character from a unit will be very rare indeed.

Well its clear GW doesnt know a damn thing about snipers considering they removed pinning n stuff.

Future snipers snipe tanks, individual mans are no challenge anymore.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Future snipers snipe tanks, individual mans are no challenge anymore.

I dunno hitting a giant metal box seems easier than a man sized target.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Future snipers snipe tanks, individual mans are no challenge anymore.

Lol if they were no challenge they could do it easily. The only thing the vindicate will do easily is pop light AV.

Super Newb wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Future snipers snipe tanks, individual mans are no challenge anymore.

Lol if they were no challenge they could do it easily. The only thing the vindicate will do easily is pop light AV.

Well considering STR 10 is the highest you can get, I'd say he'd be good at all AV

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Future snipers snipe tanks, individual mans are no challenge anymore.

Lol if they were no challenge they could do it easily. The only thing the vindicate will do easily is pop light AV.

Well considering STR 10 is the highest you can get, I'd say he'd be good at all AV

Yeah definitely. But depending how you define 'easily' my sentence can be true. Can the vindicare easily destroy a land raider? I'd say no he needs to roll a 5 or a 6 to pen.

Which is the best you can do against Land Raiders

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Which is the best you can do against Land Raiders

At range? As far as I know, yeah. Melta is still better up close.

Can someone explain what "acquire Warp Charges on a 3+" means? I've seem that mentioned in the GK formation, but have no idea what it means or how it effects to game.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
Can someone explain what "acquire Warp Charges on a 3+" means? I've seem that mentioned in the GK formation, but have no idea what it means or how it effects to game.

SJ

I believe it was supposed to be HARNESS not acquire

which means on a 3+ the spells go off.

Super Newb wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Which is the best you can do against Land Raiders

At range? As far as I know, yeah. Melta is still better up close.

Well yea Melta you can get higher rolls, but yea up close.

Which is what i was saying, GK have ways to deal with armor in close, not at range.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

Super Newb wrote:

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Which is the best you can do against Land Raiders

At range? As far as I know, yeah. Melta is still better up close.

Well yea Melta you can get higher rolls, but yea up close.

Which is what i was saying, GK have ways to deal with armor in close, not at range.

Yes by punching it real hard lol

Damn right punching it hard.

A single strength 10 shot is not as good as you would think. Its good, maybe even a bit better than that, but its not great.

Against a rhino your still averaging a single hull point. Agaisnt a land raider your averaging less than half a hull point.

What makes anti tank good is not just the strength and Ap. What makes anti tank good is high strength (or special rules) and volume of fire. Taking 3 turns to pop a rhino (or a wave serpent) is good, but not excellent.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
A single strength 10 shot is not as good as you would think. Its good, maybe even a bit better than that, but its not great.

Against a rhino your still averaging a single hull point. Agaisnt a land raider your averaging less than half a hull point.

What makes anti tank good is not just the strength and Ap. What makes anti tank good is high strength (or special rules) and volume of fire. Taking 3 turns to pop a rhino (or a wave serpent) is good, but not excellent.

Ehhh, having a 1/3 chance of straight blowing it up, or a good shot at immobilize as well is pretty good as well. However since it is only one it is hard as hell to not just go with the culexus. It basically serves as psychic defense for an army that doesnt invest in psykers.

That Nemesis Vanguard looks like a great deal...

I hate GW today.

Pre-ordered Grey Knights Codex and data cards direct
Ordered 8/16
Release Date 8/23
Shipped 8/21
Expected delivery 8/29

Well, can't really blame GW if they shipped it two days before release
Did you buy it from GW-UK or something?

I'm trying to help my Brother in Law make his GK list and I think the book is a bunch of auto-takes and a ton of always-avoid.

Brother Captains have a place. It's not a great place, but one nonetheless. If you want a fairly cheap combat monster then grab one, give him the relic armor and halberd and he might be able to do something.

The shining star of the HQ choice is the ML3 Librarian, and it's not close. I think you always take two at almost any level, giving one the book and rolling on sanctic twice and telepathy twice. Normally you'd never split focus like this, but the primaris is so terrible in Sanctic that you don't care, and you'll rarely (if ever) need hammerhand on the libby. Ideally you want flame and gate, maybe vortex for some fun. Basically the only one you don't want to roll is hammerhand, then hope the dice gods are in your favor and you get that 33% Invis.

If somehow the gods are really in your favor and you get Invis first roll, I'd go to Divination to grab prescience.

Second ML3 I'm going pure telepathy.

Purifiers are the best single unit in the book outside of NDKs. Getting flame and ML2 off the bat allows for some great board control keeping stuff out of your nova range, and there are some serious shenanigans you can pull off by combat squadding for extra charges.

Terminators are fan-freaking-tastic. To me they went from "I'll take some because I don't have enough for pallies" to "These are vastly better." Only for points reasons.

The change to apothecaries is the only reason you'd ever take paladins now. Personally, I'd treat them like TH/SS termies, meaning load those suckers in a five-man unit, all with hammers, psycannons and an apothecary, attach a librarian and use them like an elite unit. I don't think I'd ever take more than 5, and certainly not with halberds or swords. They need to hit hard and kill a lot to make up the points, don't gimp them.

I would never take a strike squad. I can't think of a single situation where they're worth taking over purifiers for PAGK, and your troops slot should be filled with termies.

Purgation squad... lol, never.

Two NDK's, always. Playtesting will determine the loadout, but I suspect dual heavy psycannons and a sword will be the way to go.

Hard to see where the stormraven fits right now. There's no dreadnought you'd want to drop and nothing good enough to risk hovering it to let them out.

I could see Draigo being a monster or an utter waste. If your opponent isn't mobile he could be invaluable, because he will eat almost anything alive. The risk is him getting kited around and being too slow to assault something.

Thoughts?

 Auswin wrote:
Two NDK's, always. Playtesting will determine the loadout, but I suspect dual heavy psycannons and a sword will be the way to go.

Can you dual up on weapons?

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 Auswin wrote:
Two NDK's, always. Playtesting will determine the loadout, but I suspect dual heavy psycannons and a sword will be the way to go.

Can you dual up on weapons?

You can't, only one of each. Loadout will probably be HPC and HI. plus sword.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:

 Auswin wrote:
Two NDK's, always. Playtesting will determine the loadout, but I suspect dual heavy psycannons and a sword will be the way to go.

Can you dual up on weapons?

No. But a heavy incinerator and a heavy psycannon with a teleporter works pretty darn well.

Ah, my bad on the weapons. I could see either the incinerator or psilencer having a place.

Got my New dex I like looks like I found my new best freinda for my ba army for the next 2 years.

Fireraven wrote:
Got my New dex I like looks like I found my new best freinda for my ba army for the next 2 years.

It's not fluffy, but I was thinking: Use Draigo to HH some Death Company and gate them forward. Good times were had by all.

 Leth wrote:

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
A single strength 10 shot is not as good as you would think. Its good, maybe even a bit better than that, but its not great.

Against a rhino your still averaging a single hull point. Agaisnt a land raider your averaging less than half a hull point.

What makes anti tank good is not just the strength and Ap. What makes anti tank good is high strength (or special rules) and volume of fire. Taking 3 turns to pop a rhino (or a wave serpent) is good, but not excellent.

Ehhh, having a 1/3 chance of straight blowing it up, or a good shot at immobilize as well is pretty good as well. However since it is only one it is hard as hell to not just go with the culexus. It basically serves as psychic defense for an army that doesnt invest in psykers.

Actually, 1/6 chance to blow up most vehicles, as the rifle is only AP2.

HOWEVER, the rumor posted in this thread regarding the Vindicare only getting Precision Shots on a 6+ is incorrect. Every hit (barring snap shots) is a Precision Shot. Mitigated by the fact that LOS can still be taken (albeit at a penalty) and that he will only wound on a 4+ (unless using Hellfire rounds). ICs will remain an unlikely target for him (need an average of 4 shots just to get one through the wounding and LOS rolls, unless using Hellfire), but sergeants and special/weapons remain prime targets.

It's also worth noting they doubled the range of the rifle to 72'.

72"..
Yeah, that's it.
I am ordering all four assassins.

I assume they are all unique characters?