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With unbound now a thing, you can pretty much spam any unit you want. The forums are full of vehicle-only lists, but it seems to me that any unit that has a hard counter can't be the ultimate broken list thing.

We want something that can beat its weight in conscripts with priests, flyrants, super-heavies, baneblades, or drop podding invisible grav centurions.

Against anything non-tank, give me Vaul's Wrath artillery with shadow weavers. In little units, so that they can only be killed one at a time. Bring twenty five for 850 points. Perhaps add a couple warlocks to taste. The only thing you're missing is anti-tank, which perhaps fifteen 2-brightlance war walkers could provide, for 1050 points. Add something scouty to camp on objectives or outflank onto them, like striking scorpions or space marine scouts.

Are there any spam lists or balanced lists that you people think could beat that? Is there any artillery more effective point for point than those guys?

Wave serpent spam will eat that.

At 2000 points....

28ish ordo xeno inquisitors with conversion beamers

They would get torn appart the second something flying shows its face.

2000pts?

16 Wyverns each popping out 4 S4 Shred Twin Linked blasts and and 24 T7 S9 Ap2 Twin linked Rapier Laser Destroyers would be pretty absurd


Sticking to one unit though? That's harder, most units are going to have a critical weakness that a single unit type can exploit

I kind of want to see a stormlord with 10 long fangs units of 2 lascannons. 20 lascannons each firing at separate targets hiding in a super heavy which can also fire 30-40 shots.

I agree with ninjafiredragon. Wave serpent spam!!!

While a flyrant may not seem that broken, try playing against 8 of them at 2K:

Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Electroshock Grub, Toxin Sacs

So unless you tailor your list to be all anti-air, good luck with that.

 jy2 wrote:
While a flyrant may not seem that broken, try playing against 8 of them at 2K:

Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Electroshock Grub, Toxin Sacs

So unless you tailor your list to be all anti-air, good luck with that.

Are 22 Annihilation Barges enough anti-air?

Well its ether that or two transcendent C'tans with power slide and double D templates and a obelisk just cuz

leaves you 100 points for something too

 Desubot wrote:
Well its ether that or two transcendent C'tans with power slide and double D templates and a obelisk just cuz

leaves you 100 points for something too

Throw in Imotekh and a ChronoTek to make sure you have the initiative

i didnt think you could chrono a seize

 Desubot wrote:
i didnt think you could chrono a seize

Sorry didn't mean to imply that the Chrono would be used to steal the initiative. The Chrono is just paired with Imotekh to keep Lightning Strikes going until turn 4 or so. The Lightning Strike is great anti-spam measure and pairs nicely with a couple of Trannies. I would run at least one Tranny with a Seismic Assault for additional anti-air.

Coteaz + Bjorn + Immotekh = opponent has a 50% chance to force you to place first, because on re-rollable 2+, you will be seizing lol.

 jy2 wrote:
While a flyrant may not seem that broken, try playing against 8 of them at 2K:
Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Electroshock Grub, Toxin Sacs
So unless you tailor your list to be all anti-air, good luck with that.

Flying monster spam is a problem; but I'd bet on the nurgle princes over the flyrants. At 2K, you get 7 instead of 8, along with 18 psychic levels, and the brutal 2+ jink. Plus the ability to poop out more daemons.

-Matt

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
While a flyrant may not seem that broken, try playing against 8 of them at 2K:; but I'd bet on the nurgle princes over the flyrants. At 2K, you get 7 instead of 8, along with 18 psychic levels, and the brutal 2+ jink. Plus the ability to poop out more daemons.

-Matt

That sounds horrifying!

How about 25 warwalkers? 6 of them with fully kitted out with EMLs for anti-everything and the rest with all manner of combos of brightlances, scatter lasers and starcannons.Also despite being walkers they're pretty mobile with fleet and battle focus

Ig platoons with maxed out conscripts and priests.

456 bodies + 170 pts for some upgrades or more bodies. Or Yarick!
Or what about 500 separate acolite units? Make every attack an overkill, eh.

The funny thing is that you can do it without technically going unbound. Just limit the ammount of priests to 3 and all the guyz get objective secured. Or play CAD and Half of them does. I bet all your fancy AB and WS spam won't do much vs that. Though, Wivern spam will hurt In this case - 2' spread for everyone and who can't fit on board, go in reserves.

Or i've missed something about 1-unit being just a single type model spammed? Than 80 separate rokkit buggies!.. I bet they're gona demolish any flyer/vehicle spam due to overwhelming s8 firepower and cheap bodies hulls. Horde armies will be an issue though...but the good part is that unless you face ork boyz spam, they're either immune to s3 or outshoot stuff like SM. And there are so many separate squads that the opponent just won't be ably to kill them in mellee fast enough for it to matter.

Dark Eldar Reapers

 jy2 wrote:
While a flyrant may not seem that broken, try playing against 8 of them at 2K:

Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Electroshock Grub, Toxin Sacs

So unless you tailor your list to be all anti-air, good luck with that.

My hydra might actually see time on the field? What?

Maybe not the most broken, but definitely a nominee.
Dark Eldar Reavers with Calthrops.

These guys can move 48" a turn, 'jink' all day long and it will have zero impact on the amount of Damage they dish out. They pretty much have access to any objective they need to get to, and will probably kill any non mech unit on an objective they want. They will usually get around units that have models that Tank and can pretty much avoid anything if they need to.

As Dark Eldar they are still pretty squishy and mech lists will give them problems. They have anti tank options, so it would be possible to still take some Tank Hunting Reavers.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
While a flyrant may not seem that broken, try playing against 8 of them at 2K:
Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Electroshock Grub, Toxin Sacs
So unless you tailor your list to be all anti-air, good luck with that.

Flying monster spam is a problem; but I'd bet on the nurgle princes over the flyrants. At 2K, you get 7 instead of 8, along with 18 psychic levels, and the brutal 2+ jink. Plus the ability to poop out more daemons.

-Matt

Well, you can use Remoras to defeat these big flying meatsacks. S8 for the Toughness, TL S5 to force saves and markerlights to ignore your Jink. And a kitted DP/Tyrant will cost 2-3 remoras

Mavnas wrote:
I kind of want to see a stormlord with 10 long fangs units of 2 lascannons. 20 lascannons each firing at separate targets hiding in a super heavy which can also fire 30-40 shots.

If you cast perfect timing on the tank, do the squads inside get it too?

 Vector Strike wrote:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
While a flyrant may not seem that broken, try playing against 8 of them at 2K:
Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Electroshock Grub, Toxin Sacs
So unless you tailor your list to be all anti-air, good luck with that.

Flying monster spam is a problem; but I'd bet on the nurgle princes over the flyrants. At 2K, you get 7 instead of 8, along with 18 psychic levels, and the brutal 2+ jink. Plus the ability to poop out more daemons.

-Matt

Well, you can use Remoras to defeat these big flying meatsacks. S8 for the Toughness, TL S5 to force saves and markerlights to ignore your Jink. And a kitted DP/Tyrant will cost 2-3 remoras

Not that great really. You'll need 4 to strip the 2+ cover save, and that leaves you firing seekers at BS3. 3+/5++ is tough to kill. You'll need ~5-6 remoras to down 1 flyer, and once those missiles are spent, you're screwed. On the other hand, the flying monster spam will tear up AV10 flyers like crazy.

-Matt

 gwarsh41 wrote:

Mavnas wrote:
I kind of want to see a stormlord with 10 long fangs units of 2 lascannons. 20 lascannons each firing at separate targets hiding in a super heavy which can also fire 30-40 shots.

If you cast perfect timing on the tank, do the squads inside get it too?

Perfect timing only effects the psyker so unless the tank is also a psyker that knows PT, you can never get a vehicle PT.

Also cant cast blessings into a tanks transport and cannot cast blessings from inside a vehicle at all.

col_impact wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
While a flyrant may not seem that broken, try playing against 8 of them at 2K:

Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Electroshock Grub, Toxin Sacs

So unless you tailor your list to be all anti-air, good luck with that.

Are 22 Annihilation Barges enough anti-air?

I was actually thinking about an AB list as well. However, the problem arises when they go up against a land raider or high AV list. They just can't do anything and so a pure AB list just isn't a viable TAC list as well. Sure, they will do well against most lists, but they need support.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
While a flyrant may not seem that broken, try playing against 8 of them at 2K:
Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Electroshock Grub, Toxin Sacs
So unless you tailor your list to be all anti-air, good luck with that.

Flying monster spam is a problem; but I'd bet on the nurgle princes over the flyrants. At 2K, you get 7 instead of 8, along with 18 psychic levels, and the brutal 2+ jink. Plus the ability to poop out more daemons.

-Matt

If they were to go up against a flyrant list, flyrants would just shoot them down. They really can't do much against a flyrant list other than vector-strikes or the occasional witchfire spell, which they will be snapshooting due to jinking.

And the moment the nurgle princes land to prepare for assault, they can actually be overwhelmed by units like bargelords, the seer council, massed seekers, beaststar, etc.

Moreover, they won't do much to serpent-spam or the cover-ignoring Tau.

2 acolyte/1 jokearo units. At 2000 points thats 46 lascannons, heavy flamers, or multimeltas.

 HawaiiMatt wrote:
Not that great really. You'll need 4 to strip the 2+ cover save, and that leaves you firing seekers at BS3. 3+/5++ is tough to kill. You'll need ~5-6 remoras to down 1 flyer, and once those missiles are spent, you're screwed. On the other hand, the flying monster spam will tear up AV10 flyers like crazy.

-Matt

I don't think so. S5 still bothers T6 (well, against nurgle it becomes a problem - but I'm saying about the general picture). Seeker missiles fired by markerlights already ignore cover. After the missiles are gone, the rain of TL S5 (with markerlights) will force a lot of saves.

Barracudas are better, but more costly.

Remoras have Jink themselves - and Stealth!

 Insane Smile wrote:

 jy2 wrote:
While a flyrant may not seem that broken, try playing against 8 of them at 2K:

Flyrant - 2x TL-Brainleech Devourers, Electroshock Grub, Toxin Sacs

So unless you tailor your list to be all anti-air, good luck with that.

My hydra might actually see time on the field? What?

The problem is that hydras spammed don't make for a good TAC list. Sure it may do well against a flyer heavy army, but what can it do against, say, the 22 annihilation barge army? Or against most ground armies for that matter?

When you build a list, whether Bound or Unbound, you need to make it good against all-comers. The problem is, most spam-lists aren't necessarily TAC (Take-all-comer's) lists. The spammed flyrant list is good because it is actually a very good TAC list. It can take on both ground units and air units as well as heavy armor with its electroshock grubs (haywire attack). 4 flyrants can kill a land raider in 1 turn, so the spammed-flyrant list can take out 2 LR's each and every turn. If can take on hordes and deathstars with volume-of-shots. Toxin sacs will also let you take on tough units like the wraithknights. You can't assault it with assault heavy deathstars, and it's damn tough to shoot down 8 flyers with 4+ jinks saves and potentially 5+ FNP.

Best of all, it's got the mobility to hit anyone and almost everywhere. And it can easily take objectives anywhere on the table.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 gwarsh41 wrote:

Mavnas wrote:
I kind of want to see a stormlord with 10 long fangs units of 2 lascannons. 20 lascannons each firing at separate targets hiding in a super heavy which can also fire 30-40 shots.

If you cast perfect timing on the tank, do the squads inside get it too?

Nope.

 zephoid wrote:
2 acolyte/1 jokearo units. At 2000 points thats 46 lascannons, heavy flamers, or multimeltas.

pit it against my favorite army, Green tide.

Have fun getting those heavy flamers near the boyz

Thudd guns spam then. That or Wyverns, but Thuuds are cheaper.

But yeah, most list spamming a unit will have a glaring weakness.