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I'm really hoping the whole forces of Chaos join up like Undead-mans.

Also, I will believe that Settra is dead if I want to. even if i'm wrong all the time.

I'm hoping there is a chaos end times book so I can field beastmen, Daemons and mortals in the same army once more.

In some ways, I'm glad the story line is apparently moving on, but I'm not optimistic it will stay that way. This has happened before with the storm of magic, and in 40k with the eye of terror campaign.

But I do want to see a uber archaon, that would be pure awesome.

 buddha wrote:

Kislev is gone.

Skaven seemed to have taken over Esalia and Tilia in one of the most vauge explanations ever. Seriously, areas as large as the Empire are just taken over and we get like one paraghraph? Just my beef.

Guess I shouldn't honestly be surprised anymore as this has been a slow death for an agonizing time, but I honestly find the a blurb of a paragraph to be rather abhorrent. Would it have killed them to at least detail some last stands with what little dignity we had left? Was the Border Princes mentioned at all in this? Then of course, we have the humans outside the continent - Cathay, Nippon, Araby, Albion, etc. - what about them?

 welshhoppo wrote:
But I do want to see a uber archaon, that would be pure awesome.

Oh hell yes... Uber-Archaon vs Uber-Nagash.

The Hordes of Chaos vs The Undead Legion... and then the good guys roll in and mop up the survivors because the show must go on.

 welshhoppo wrote:
I'm hoping there is a chaos end times book so I can field beastmen, Daemons and mortals in the same army once more.

You already can thanks to the Tamurkhan book.

 Goldshield wrote:

 buddha wrote:

Kislev is gone.

Skaven seemed to have taken over Esalia and Tilia in one of the most vauge explanations ever. Seriously, areas as large as the Empire are just taken over and we get like one paraghraph? Just my beef.

Guess I shouldn't honestly be surprised anymore as this has been a slow death for an agonizing time, but I honestly find the a blurb of a paragraph to be rather abhorrent. Would it have killed them to at least detail some last stands with what little dignity we had left? Was the Border Princes mentioned at all in this? Then of course, we have the humans outside the continent - Cathay, Nippon, Araby, Albion, etc. - what about them?

Skaven have most of the Border Princes and undead have the rest from memory. The Great Bastion of Cathay... not so great anymore.

.

 thedarkavenger wrote:

 nels1031 wrote:
Only faction not mentioned are the Chaos Dwarves, and that's kind of par the course, unfortunately.

All real armies ARE mentioned.

Sounds like someone has magma cannon butt hurt! The tribes of the north would be hitting themselves with sticks without the forges of Zharr Nagrund!

 melkorthetonedeaf wrote:
I'm really hoping the whole forces of Chaos join up like Undead-mans.

Also, I will believe that Settra is dead if I want to. even if i'm wrong all the time.

Why? Do you hate Settra or something?

I mean, honestly, the ending of the book got me the most excited I've ever been towards actual fluff.

Techincally Settra was always dead. Except when he was alive. But then he was dead for a while then Nagash broke him. And now he's going to become a Daemon Prince no doubt.

Also, I would imagine the Skaven invasion of Tilea, Estalia and Araby will be covered in detail in End Times: Thanquol (I hope)

Sim-Life wrote:
Techincally Settra was always dead. Except when he was alive. But then he was dead for a while then Nagash broke him. And now he's going to become a Daemon Prince no doubt.

Also, I would imagine the Skaven invasion of Tilea, Estalia and Araby will be covered in detail in End Times: Thanquol (I hope)

Ah ha, yes, he is technically "dead". But he is undead, being alive, not dead, but still dead. Point being, his soul still resides in his body, not in the underworld. Therefor, he is still "undead", if you wanna put it that way. He is alive. And I'm assuming the becoming a daemon prince is just for the lols.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Spoiler:

Gelt didn't betray the Empire, so to speak. He merely utilized tools that everyone else was too afraid to use in order to save the emperor and the Empire. Allying with a Vampire may seem bad, but if it means helping to save your empire and defeat the demons? Come on. It's basically what Arthas did in Warcraft, minus the killing his own guys and becoming the lich king.

Another spoiler guys. Karl Franz is not dead either

.

Actually it is pretty clear by the end that he has betrayed the Empire. The laws of the Empire are clear enough that the use of illegal magic is a bad enough crime that almost his entire order can get destroyed on the suspicion that Gelt's corruption has passed through the entire Gold college. And don't forget he himself murdered that guy who wanted to tell on him, killed a hole lot more trying to kill Valten and by the end it is pretty obvious that he has become a thrall to Vlad and if siding with a Vampire that wants to conquer the Empire is not treason then I don't know what is.

 KingGarland wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

Spoiler:

Gelt didn't betray the Empire, so to speak. He merely utilized tools that everyone else was too afraid to use in order to save the emperor and the Empire. Allying with a Vampire may seem bad, but if it means helping to save your empire and defeat the demons? Come on. It's basically what Arthas did in Warcraft, minus the killing his own guys and becoming the lich king.

Another spoiler guys. Karl Franz is not dead either

.

Actually it is pretty clear by the end that he has betrayed the Empire. The laws of the Empire are clear enough that the use of illegal magic is a bad enough crime that almost his entire order can get destroyed on the suspicion that Gelt's corruption has passed through the entire Gold college. And don't forget he himself murdered that guy who wanted to tell on him, killed a hole lot more trying to kill Valten and by the end it is pretty obvious that he has become a thrall to Vlad and if siding with a Vampire that wants to conquer the Empire is not treason then I don't know what is.

*sigh*....yes he "betrayed" the Empire, but for good reasons. He wads trying to kill Valten to defend the Emperor, and yeah, he did side with Vlad in the End, because they knew what was happening. And if Vlad wanted to conquer the Empire, why didn't he? Because he didn't want to. He was protecting the Empire. He's fighting back against the Daemons.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 KingGarland wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

Spoiler:

Gelt didn't betray the Empire, so to speak. He merely utilized tools that everyone else was too afraid to use in order to save the emperor and the Empire. Allying with a Vampire may seem bad, but if it means helping to save your empire and defeat the demons? Come on. It's basically what Arthas did in Warcraft, minus the killing his own guys and becoming the lich king.

Another spoiler guys. Karl Franz is not dead either

.

Actually it is pretty clear by the end that he has betrayed the Empire. The laws of the Empire are clear enough that the use of illegal magic is a bad enough crime that almost his entire order can get destroyed on the suspicion that Gelt's corruption has passed through the entire Gold college. And don't forget he himself murdered that guy who wanted to tell on him, killed a hole lot more trying to kill Valten and by the end it is pretty obvious that he has become a thrall to Vlad and if siding with a Vampire that wants to conquer the Empire is not treason then I don't know what is.

*sigh*....yes he "betrayed" the Empire, but for good reasons. He wads trying to kill Valten to defend the Emperor, and yeah, he did side with Vlad in the End, because they knew what was happening. And if Vlad wanted to conquer the Empire, why didn't he? Because he didn't want to. He was protecting the Empire. He's fighting back against the Daemons.

Vlad's not protecting the Empire. He's keeping Chaos away from Sylvania, at least from my perspective.

There were some things that confused me about the story, wonder if you guys could shine a light on them:

A) Is Nagash still under Aenarion's Curse by the end? It was talked about for a bit, then was never mentioned again. Seems a bit strange when it was supposed to be a part of Teclis' and his Uncle's plan.
B) Is there anyone in lore who could fit the bill as the Nameless?
C) I get that Akhan, Mannfred, Vlad, Neferata and Krell are the only confirmed Mortarchs at the moment, but are the Nameless, Harkon, Dieter and Khalida being set up as the other ones?

The only other I don't get is how Walach and Settra are influenced by Chaos? I was under the assumption that because the Undead don't pass on to the Chaos Realm, they were immune to their powers?

Vedrenne wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 KingGarland wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

Spoiler:

Gelt didn't betray the Empire, so to speak. He merely utilized tools that everyone else was too afraid to use in order to save the emperor and the Empire. Allying with a Vampire may seem bad, but if it means helping to save your empire and defeat the demons? Come on. It's basically what Arthas did in Warcraft, minus the killing his own guys and becoming the lich king.

Another spoiler guys. Karl Franz is not dead either

.

Actually it is pretty clear by the end that he has betrayed the Empire. The laws of the Empire are clear enough that the use of illegal magic is a bad enough crime that almost his entire order can get destroyed on the suspicion that Gelt's corruption has passed through the entire Gold college. And don't forget he himself murdered that guy who wanted to tell on him, killed a hole lot more trying to kill Valten and by the end it is pretty obvious that he has become a thrall to Vlad and if siding with a Vampire that wants to conquer the Empire is not treason then I don't know what is.

*sigh*....yes he "betrayed" the Empire, but for good reasons. He wads trying to kill Valten to defend the Emperor, and yeah, he did side with Vlad in the End, because they knew what was happening. And if Vlad wanted to conquer the Empire, why didn't he? Because he didn't want to. He was protecting the Empire. He's fighting back against the Daemons.

Vlad's not protecting the Empire. He's keeping Chaos away from Sylvania, at least from my perspective.

There were some things that confused me about the story, wonder if you guys could shine a light on them:

A) Is Nagash still under Aenarion's Curse by the end? It was talked about for a bit, then was never mentioned again. Seems a bit strange when it was supposed to be a part of Teclis' and his Uncle's plan.
B) Is there anyone in lore who could fit the bill as the Nameless?
C) I get that Akhan, Mannfred, Vlad, Neferata and Krell are the only confirmed Mortarchs at the moment, but are the Nameless, Harkon, Dieter and Khalida being set up as the other ones?

The only other I don't get is how Walach and Settra are influenced by Chaos? I was under the assumption that because the Undead don't pass on to the Chaos Realm, they were immune to their powers?

No idea on the Nameless, but the rest of the Mortarchs were actually mentioned, so they don't need more. And no, he's not under the curse at the end. He gets his full power back. And how is Settra influenced by chaos? Is that the voice he hears in the end?

 krodarklorr wrote:

Vedrenne wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 KingGarland wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

Spoiler:

Gelt didn't betray the Empire, so to speak. He merely utilized tools that everyone else was too afraid to use in order to save the emperor and the Empire. Allying with a Vampire may seem bad, but if it means helping to save your empire and defeat the demons? Come on. It's basically what Arthas did in Warcraft, minus the killing his own guys and becoming the lich king.

Another spoiler guys. Karl Franz is not dead either

.

Actually it is pretty clear by the end that he has betrayed the Empire. The laws of the Empire are clear enough that the use of illegal magic is a bad enough crime that almost his entire order can get destroyed on the suspicion that Gelt's corruption has passed through the entire Gold college. And don't forget he himself murdered that guy who wanted to tell on him, killed a hole lot more trying to kill Valten and by the end it is pretty obvious that he has become a thrall to Vlad and if siding with a Vampire that wants to conquer the Empire is not treason then I don't know what is.

*sigh*....yes he "betrayed" the Empire, but for good reasons. He wads trying to kill Valten to defend the Emperor, and yeah, he did side with Vlad in the End, because they knew what was happening. And if Vlad wanted to conquer the Empire, why didn't he? Because he didn't want to. He was protecting the Empire. He's fighting back against the Daemons.

Vlad's not protecting the Empire. He's keeping Chaos away from Sylvania, at least from my perspective.

There were some things that confused me about the story, wonder if you guys could shine a light on them:

A) Is Nagash still under Aenarion's Curse by the end? It was talked about for a bit, then was never mentioned again. Seems a bit strange when it was supposed to be a part of Teclis' and his Uncle's plan.
B) Is there anyone in lore who could fit the bill as the Nameless?
C) I get that Akhan, Mannfred, Vlad, Neferata and Krell are the only confirmed Mortarchs at the moment, but are the Nameless, Harkon, Dieter and Khalida being set up as the other ones?

The only other I don't get is how Walach and Settra are influenced by Chaos? I was under the assumption that because the Undead don't pass on to the Chaos Realm, they were immune to their powers?

No idea on the Nameless, but the rest of the Mortarchs were actually mentioned, so they don't need more. And no, he's not under the curse at the end. He gets his full power back. And how is Settra influenced by chaos? Is that the voice he hears in the end?

It's heavily hinted.

 thedarkavenger wrote:


It's heavily hinted.

Well damn. Fair enough. Either way, I'm looking forward to him getting his revenge. Should be epic.

There's myself and another in this very thread that think The Nameless is Constant Drachenfels.

There are a few clues when The Nameless is introduced in the Nagash story that coincide with the Drachenfels lore. I thought it was a nice touch and a nod to past Warhammer fluff, as he was the Nagash of old Warhammer lore before there was Nagash, if that makes sense.

Hang on - Vlads back? How exactly did that happen?

Nagash ripped a piece of Mannfreds flesh off and was able to resurrect Vlad from the blood link that they share.

 krodarklorr wrote:

 KingGarland wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

Spoiler:

Gelt didn't betray the Empire, so to speak. He merely utilized tools that everyone else was too afraid to use in order to save the emperor and the Empire. Allying with a Vampire may seem bad, but if it means helping to save your empire and defeat the demons? Come on. It's basically what Arthas did in Warcraft, minus the killing his own guys and becoming the lich king.

Another spoiler guys. Karl Franz is not dead either

.

Actually it is pretty clear by the end that he has betrayed the Empire. The laws of the Empire are clear enough that the use of illegal magic is a bad enough crime that almost his entire order can get destroyed on the suspicion that Gelt's corruption has passed through the entire Gold college. And don't forget he himself murdered that guy who wanted to tell on him, killed a hole lot more trying to kill Valten and by the end it is pretty obvious that he has become a thrall to Vlad and if siding with a Vampire that wants to conquer the Empire is not treason then I don't know what is.

*sigh*....yes he "betrayed" the Empire, but for good reasons. He wads trying to kill Valten to defend the Emperor, and yeah, he did side with Vlad in the End, because they knew what was happening. And if Vlad wanted to conquer the Empire, why didn't he? Because he didn't want to. He was protecting the Empire. He's fighting back against the Daemons.

I can image some cool Empire vs Empire games based solely upon the treason/not-treason argument you fellas are having.

Fun stuff.

 gummynerds wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 KingGarland wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

Spoiler:

Gelt didn't betray the Empire, so to speak. He merely utilized tools that everyone else was too afraid to use in order to save the emperor and the Empire. Allying with a Vampire may seem bad, but if it means helping to save your empire and defeat the demons? Come on. It's basically what Arthas did in Warcraft, minus the killing his own guys and becoming the lich king.

Another spoiler guys. Karl Franz is not dead either

.

Actually it is pretty clear by the end that he has betrayed the Empire. The laws of the Empire are clear enough that the use of illegal magic is a bad enough crime that almost his entire order can get destroyed on the suspicion that Gelt's corruption has passed through the entire Gold college. And don't forget he himself murdered that guy who wanted to tell on him, killed a hole lot more trying to kill Valten and by the end it is pretty obvious that he has become a thrall to Vlad and if siding with a Vampire that wants to conquer the Empire is not treason then I don't know what is.

*sigh*....yes he "betrayed" the Empire, but for good reasons. He wads trying to kill Valten to defend the Emperor, and yeah, he did side with Vlad in the End, because they knew what was happening. And if Vlad wanted to conquer the Empire, why didn't he? Because he didn't want to. He was protecting the Empire. He's fighting back against the Daemons.

I can image some cool Empire vs Empire games based solely upon the treason/not-treason argument you fellas are having.

Fun stuff.

It's what Triumph and Treachery was made for!

Kislev is gone?
Lame. I still have the Ice Queen figure. :(

 nels1031 wrote:
There's myself and another in this very thread that think The Nameless is Constant Drachenfels.

There are a few clues when The Nameless is introduced in the Nagash story that coincide with the Drachenfels lore. I thought it was a nice touch and a nod to past Warhammer fluff, as he was the Nagash of old Warhammer lore before there was Nagash, if that makes sense.

I do really, really hope it is Constant, but if it really is and Nagash does give him his memory back (which he probably would, even Arkhan says that Nagash is not ungenerous to those that serve him) it would be the biggest blunder Nagash could possibly make as he is more than powerful enough to take Nagash head-on and win, then the Old World would have something to truly fear

I think the new book is great, i like how in it they use specific references to things like units/magic/characters that are straight out of the game, instead of creating an entirely new universe like what storm of chaos was. Very well written.

The guy running the my local store reckons that this is just the first book of a four part series. The next to include skaven, chaos and then the good guys. Anyone else heard anything similar?

i like the fact that the whole character list is being changed around with some big names coming back and some being killed off. Makes things interesting.

 Madmatt wrote:
I think the new book is great, i like how in it they use specific references to things like units/magic/characters that are straight out of the game, instead of creating an entirely new universe like what storm of chaos was. Very well written.

The guy running the my local store reckons that this is just the first book of a four part series. The next to include skaven, chaos and then the good guys. Anyone else heard anything similar?

i like the fact that the whole character list is being changed around with some big names coming back and some being killed off. Makes things interesting.

I have hear that it is the first in a four part series as well. From what I have heard (remember that this is mostly rumors, so I could be completely wrong) the next will be a book focusing on the Chaos invasion, the third a Skaven book and the last I am not sure but I also heard it will focus on the empire and maybe Bretonnia.

Yeah he also mentioned that this will be a test and if it goes well they will do something similar for 40k and maybe bring back a few primarchs and other famous characters.

see what happens i suppose but very interesting times, if only i had more money/time.

 Madmatt wrote:
Yeah he also mentioned that this will be a test and if it goes well they will do something similar for 40k and maybe bring back a few primarchs and other famous characters.

see what happens i suppose but very interesting times, if only i had more money/time.

As I've said in previous posts, I hope they don't do the same thing for 40k. And what you just mentioned solidified that opinion. I do NOT wanna see Primarchs. Period. Not just because I hate SM and think the Imperium doesn't need more stuff, but also because they would be EXTREMELY powerful, and what would the Xenos get? Exactly....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Madmatt wrote:
I think the new book is great, i like how in it they use specific references to things like units/magic/characters that are straight out of the game, instead of creating an entirely new universe like what storm of chaos was. Very well written.

I loved how they described people using Purple Sun and Plague of Rust and other spells. Was rather entertaining, and I agree it was very well written. I will probably end up getting the other books solely for the story.

[MOD EDIT - Not even close to on topic here! Alpharius]

I just hope they add some fresh artwork, all the art in the book is fantastic but most of it was re-used material. Good artwork would have to be one of my favorite parts. It really adds to book. like they say a picture is worth a thousand words.