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 Red Corsair wrote:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Agreed on the Klaivex being an auto take on a unit of Incubi. He did amazingly for me in 2 games (the third he was evaporated by a Riptide, what are you gonna do?). I took a unit of 4 to bodyguard my Archon, and in both games the Archon was shocking. He seriously only scored 1 wound in 2 games (although that wound did instant kill a Mawlock, so he came in where it mattered) but in both games the Klaivex was cleaving through units. He did 3 wounds a turn to a unit of Warriors until he killed them, the Archon was staring at a butterfly. Then he slaughtered some Grey Hunters, the Archon was admiring a fancy looking Rock.

Seriously, my Archon sucks :(

If your not using a WWP just field lelith or drazar if you want a combat machine. Even more so on drazar if your fielding an Incubi escort.

I'd stay away from wouldbe cc machines these days.
True born or other units like Firedragons should be able to get the job done.

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Agreed on the Klaivex being an auto take on a unit of Incubi. He did amazingly for me in 2 games (the third he was evaporated by a Riptide, what are you gonna do?). I took a unit of 4 to bodyguard my Archon, and in both games the Archon was shocking. He seriously only scored 1 wound in 2 games (although that wound did instant kill a Mawlock, so he came in where it mattered) but in both games the Klaivex was cleaving through units. He did 3 wounds a turn to a unit of Warriors until he killed them, the Archon was staring at a butterfly. Then he slaughtered some Grey Hunters, the Archon was admiring a fancy looking Rock.

Seriously, my Archon sucks :(

The Klavex is a nice bonus, the extra init, WS, and attack being a bargain for 10 points.

The demi klaves are kind of a joke though. if combined, they function exactly like a regular klave, if apart you get +1 attack but are taken down to str3 and AP3. What is the point of paying 15 points for that?

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Agreed on the Klaivex being an auto take on a unit of Incubi. He did amazingly for me in 2 games (the third he was evaporated by a Riptide, what are you gonna do?). I took a unit of 4 to bodyguard my Archon, and in both games the Archon was shocking. He seriously only scored 1 wound in 2 games (although that wound did instant kill a Mawlock, so he came in where it mattered) but in both games the Klaivex was cleaving through units. He did 3 wounds a turn to a unit of Warriors until he killed them, the Archon was staring at a butterfly. Then he slaughtered some Grey Hunters, the Archon was admiring a fancy looking Rock.

Seriously, my Archon sucks :(

If your not using a WWP just field lelith or drazar if you want a combat machine. Even more so on drazar if your fielding an Incubi escort.

I'd stay away from wouldbe cc machines these days.
True born or other units like Firedragons should be able to get the job done.

While I agree, sometimes you just want to field a CC monster.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Exergy wrote:

 ALEXisAWESOME wrote:
Agreed on the Klaivex being an auto take on a unit of Incubi. He did amazingly for me in 2 games (the third he was evaporated by a Riptide, what are you gonna do?). I took a unit of 4 to bodyguard my Archon, and in both games the Archon was shocking. He seriously only scored 1 wound in 2 games (although that wound did instant kill a Mawlock, so he came in where it mattered) but in both games the Klaivex was cleaving through units. He did 3 wounds a turn to a unit of Warriors until he killed them, the Archon was staring at a butterfly. Then he slaughtered some Grey Hunters, the Archon was admiring a fancy looking Rock.

Seriously, my Archon sucks :(

The Klavex is a nice bonus, the extra init, WS, and attack being a bargain for 10 points.

The demi klaves are kind of a joke though. if combined, they function exactly like a regular klave, if apart you get +1 attack but are taken down to str3 and AP3. What is the point of paying 15 points for that?

Yea the wrecked the demi klaives. I could see it as a neat option if it was like 5 points but 15 is silly dumb.

In my recent game vs SM, I ran two 3xIncubi + Klaivex units in Venoms and they wrecked face. Four of them w/Klaivex is a good number due the the frequency of 5x model units tha make it easy to Rampage.

mercury14 wrote:
In my recent game vs SM, I ran two 3xIncubi + Klaivex units in Venoms and they wrecked face. Four of them w/Klaivex is a good number due the the frequency of 5x model units tha make it easy to Rampage.

Sounds solid. But I want some mandrakes too.
Question, why venom? Wouldn't the 3+ jink raider with 3 hp be better?

If you're not determined to take 10 models in a unit it's always better to run venoms. Especially on a unit of Incubi.

The double cannons help mitigate their inability to shoot and why running a disintigrator Raider could be okay, the Venom is almost always better.

Raiders would have been a bit safer but I own nine Venoms and only three Raiders and the Raiders were occupied.

By the way, I assaulted an invisible (LOL) unit of 3x Grav Cents, Chapter Master, and Librarian with 9x Reavers w/3x Caltrops, killing the Master with Hammers (he had one wound removed already) and losing only one Reaver in return. The following turn I lost only one more Reaver, hit and ran out of combat and then on my turn I charged right back in, wiping the squad.

Reavers are spectacular.

Oh man... I didn't even think about Reavers being the hard counter to centstar. That's fantastic

 Auswin wrote:
Oh man... I didn't even think about Reavers being the hard counter to centstar. That's fantastic

Yeah the first time in I had a packet of 4 rending wounds and the Chapter Master was mashing the LOS button after failing his 3++ on the first one (having 1 wound left). He let a Cent die and when he tried to give a second Cent a wound he failed LOS and died too. The Second time in all the Cents died to Hammers and the Librarian died to CC attacks. The whole Centstar died and all I lost were two Reavers.

Finally got my mitts on the dex.

I'm not impressed by the pamphlet plus filler, but I can see a few fun things to try.

WWP delivered talos/cronos units, grotesque flamebunnies and small decently armed scourge units for example.

The codex hands out instant death a lot, though mostly on weaksauce weapons.

Tired of Gw assuming Fear is a thing though, as a LOT of our stuff doesn't work on fearless or ATSKNF.

I'll give the codex a shot and see...

Also looking forward to getting the coven book, as I love me some coven goodies

Just to clarifie you cant wwp a talos/cronos unit as the carryier cant join mc's.
heres an idea for fun wwp a 20 warrior blob with 2 cannon and 2 blasters, with the carrier having the animus to give a big blob of troops with fnp 5 (if animus kills something) in the enemy deployment zone turn 2. Could be intresting.

I found fear pretty darn useful to be honest. The armor giving fear and -2 leadership caused a unit of 30 boyz with a PC nob to be reduced to WS1.

The nob couldn't hit my archon and the number of wounds went from a likely 15 to 5 as a result.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Skullhammer wrote:
Just to clarifie you cant wwp a talos/cronos unit as the carryier cant join mc's.
heres an idea for fun wwp a 20 warrior blob with 2 cannon and 2 blasters, with the carrier having the animus to give a big blob of troops with fnp 5 (if animus kills something) in the enemy deployment zone turn 2. Could be intresting.

You can in the supplement! There's a formation that's two Talos and a Cronos with a Haemonculus that gets to attach. It explicitly says it ignore the rule that ICs can't join MCs.

Agh ok dont have the supplement and not likly to either as im not a fan of coven units.

Skullhammer wrote:
Just to clarifie you cant wwp a talos/cronos unit as the carryier cant join mc's.
heres an idea for fun wwp a 20 warrior blob with 2 cannon and 2 blasters, with the carrier having the animus to give a big blob of troops with fnp 5 (if animus kills something) in the enemy deployment zone turn 2. Could be intresting.

True nuff.

I was thinking of the old rule where you couldn't join a unit of only one MC, but could join if there were 2 or more..

Shows how much 40K i play these days

mercury14 wrote:
Raiders would have been a bit safer but I own nine Venoms and only three Raiders and the Raiders were occupied.

By the way, I assaulted an invisible (LOL) unit of 3x Grav Cents, Chapter Master, and Librarian with 9x Reavers w/3x Caltrops, killing the Master with Hammers (he had one wound removed already) and losing only one Reaver in return. The following turn I lost only one more Reaver, hit and ran out of combat and then on my turn I charged right back in, wiping the squad.

Reavers are spectacular.

BrB gonna get three boxes

I always loved the models and to see this after Bladevanes were changed just makes me happy

What would you say is the optimal number?

@Everyone

Which missiles are best for the Razerwing? Neurotoxin or Monoscythe?

 Frozocrone wrote:


@Everyone

Which missiles are best for the Razerwing? Neurotoxin or Monoscythe?

I prefer Necrotoxin on the whole now. The loss of AP means you're better off going monoscythe against majority T3, light armor -- but Fleshbane against anything means it does more against MEQ/TEQ, MC's and Demon Princes. If you meta is Eldar/IG heavy I'd go mono, but overall I think using Monos to pop transports are "meh" given the other options.

Okay, so I really like the Dark Eldar models and have been looking to start a small Dark Eldar force (both as a standalone and as an ally to my Eldar) for some time now. Currently I have the contents of the old battleforce (Raider, 10 Warriors, 10 Wyches and 3 Reavers) and I also think I have an OOP Raider lying around too. Is this a decent start? Where would you recommend I go from here? What's good in the new book and what would work well alongside Eldar? Bear in mind I'm not looking to spend too much or to amass a huge army!

Thanks in advance

You really need a lot of transports for DE. I don't think they can work as a footdar army at all. Realistically you want around three raiders and four venoms in a 1500 pt list.

Pick if you want Kabals, Wych Cult or Covens and build from there. I like Kabals the best, so amass a lot of Kabalite warriors. They're pretty cheap and should allow you to convert enough trueborn out of them.

In terms of allying with Eldar: I think it's all about kabalites and WWP archons to bring along D-Sythe wraithguard or fire dragons.

3 more Reavers should have you set out with a well balanced small force. Then all you need is a HQ of choice to carry a Webway Portal to teleport your Wyches in. That is the cheapest way to get an effective army for small points

Deepstrike the Wyches somewhere safe, have the unit of 6 Reavers with 2 Caltrops scare the pants off of everyone while the 10 man Splinter Cannon toting Warrior Squad shreds infantry.

Best i can do with those limitations, but it should be fun!

Non Special Character HQs

Archon

profile unchanged

cost unchanged

special rules the same [note that PfP has changed]

Gained- may buy a venom or raider as a dedicated transport

Ultimately the differences between the new Archon and the Old Archon are in the wargear.

Most notably the Husk blade is now ap 3 instead of 2, and soul trap has changed.

Soul Trap
Old- If bearer kills an enemy independent character or monstrous creature can take a LD test, if passed doubles strength of bearer, to max strength 10.
New- For each unsaved wound inflicted in challenge on an enemy character gain +1 strength (up to max strength 10)

PGL- no longer grants grenades to unit, instead gives a shooting attack that does wounds based off LD roll, fearless and ATSKNF models immune. The ability to grant a court, incubi, grots, wracks, or any other unit joined grenades is now gone.

Blast pistol- still range 6.

Shadowfield has changed slightly, for the better
Old- 30 pts
New-40 pts, works until the end of the phased it is lost due to failed save, and is no longer 1 per army.

Webway portal- large change
Old- let you put out small blast marker sized "marker" and models could arrive from it from reserves
New-If model with WWP is in reserves or ongoing reserves, the model and any unit it has joined or is embarked upon has the Deep Strike special rule. This model, and this unit will not scatter if arriving from deepstrike reserve.


This is a very large change.

Essentially you can put a model with a WWP with any unit it can join in reserves, and now they can arrive anywhere you choose. This is something the Dark Eldar needed for a long time and is fluffy as well as powerful.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Auswin wrote:
You really need a lot of transports for DE. I don't think they can work as a footdar army at all. Realistically you want around three raiders and four venoms in a 1500 pt list.

Pick if you want Kabals, Wych Cult or Covens and build from there. I like Kabals the best, so amass a lot of Kabalite warriors. They're pretty cheap and should allow you to convert enough trueborn out of them.

In terms of allying with Eldar: I think it's all about kabalites and WWP archons to bring along D-Sythe wraithguard or fire dragons.

+1 to this.

also for allying dark eldar bring FA slot open topped transports, which may be attractive to harlequins, banshees, Striking scorpions,and wraithblades.

blaktoof wrote:

Shadowfield has changed slightly, for the better
Old- 30 pts
New-40 pts, works until the end of the phased it is lost due to failed save, and is no longer 1 per army.

Shadowfield hasnt been 1 per army since 3rd edition, when it was 25 points. Back then it could also go anywhere, on an upgrade character if you wanted

It is better, but costing 10 points more... Kind of a wash.

 Auswin wrote:
You really need a lot of transports for DE. I don't think they can work as a footdar army at all.

At the new cost for the infantry now, you get more poison shots out of the infantry than you do the vehicles.
Hellions at 12 points get 3 shots each. 60 points for 15 shots. Venom is 65 for 12 shots.
I think you can actually build a massed infantry list with the new codex. It's just a matter of landing the right mix of poison vs anti-tank.
Scourge lets you get anti-tank guns where you need them, as do webways. Reavers do a wonder as well.

-Matt

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Auswin wrote:
You really need a lot of transports for DE. I don't think they can work as a footdar army at all.

At the new cost for the infantry now, you get more poison shots out of the infantry than you do the vehicles.
Hellions at 12 points get 3 shots each. 60 points for 15 shots. Venom is 65 for 12 shots.
I think you can actually build a massed infantry list with the new codex. It's just a matter of landing the right mix of poison vs anti-tank.
Scourge lets you get anti-tank guns where you need them, as do webways. Reavers do a wonder as well.

-Matt

dont hellions cost 13 points and have 2 shots each?

Problem with klaivex is you are paying alot of points for something that is more fragile than a marine.

 Exergy wrote:

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Auswin wrote:
You really need a lot of transports for DE. I don't think they can work as a footdar army at all.

At the new cost for the infantry now, you get more poison shots out of the infantry than you do the vehicles.
Hellions at 12 points get 3 shots each. 60 points for 15 shots. Venom is 65 for 12 shots.
I think you can actually build a massed infantry list with the new codex. It's just a matter of landing the right mix of poison vs anti-tank.
Scourge lets you get anti-tank guns where you need them, as do webways. Reavers do a wonder as well.

-Matt

dont hellions cost 13 points and have 2 shots each?

Correct. They also happen to have 18" range as opposed to Venom's 36".

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Auswin wrote:
You really need a lot of transports for DE. I don't think they can work as a footdar army at all.

At the new cost for the infantry now, you get more poison shots out of the infantry than you do the vehicles.
Hellions at 12 points get 3 shots each. 60 points for 15 shots. Venom is 65 for 12 shots.
I think you can actually build a massed infantry list with the new codex. It's just a matter of landing the right mix of poison vs anti-tank.
Scourge lets you get anti-tank guns where you need them, as do webways. Reavers do a wonder as well.

-Matt

Actually Hellions get 10 shots for the same points cost as 2x SplinterCannons Venoms, which are half the range of the Venom

That said, you probably could build a mass infantry list, but I don't see why you would, you would lose a lot of mobility

EDIT: Ninja'd

 HawaiiMatt wrote:

 Auswin wrote:
You really need a lot of transports for DE. I don't think they can work as a footdar army at all.

At the new cost for the infantry now, you get more poison shots out of the infantry than you do the vehicles.
Hellions at 12 points get 3 shots each. 60 points for 15 shots. Venom is 65 for 12 shots.
I think you can actually build a massed infantry list with the new codex. It's just a matter of landing the right mix of poison vs anti-tank.
Scourge lets you get anti-tank guns where you need them, as do webways. Reavers do a wonder as well.

-Matt

While Hellions are 65 pts for 5, and only have 2 shots each, this certainly is something to consider. Hellions will pump out lots of poison shooting, they are super mobile, have combat drugs and Str 4 attacks, and will have all the power from pain buffs. A unit or two of 10 Hellions running around could be pretty decent.

Auswin wrote:You really need a lot of transports for DE. I don't think they can work as a footdar army at all. Realistically you want around three raiders and four venoms in a 1500 pt list.

Pick if you want Kabals, Wych Cult or Covens and build from there. I like Kabals the best, so amass a lot of Kabalite warriors. They're pretty cheap and should allow you to convert enough trueborn out of them.

In terms of allying with Eldar: I think it's all about kabalites and WWP archons to bring along D-Sythe wraithguard or fire dragons.

ALEXisAWESOME wrote:3 more Reavers should have you set out with a well balanced small force. Then all you need is a HQ of choice to carry a Webway Portal to teleport your Wyches in. That is the cheapest way to get an effective army for small points

Deepstrike the Wyches somewhere safe, have the unit of 6 Reavers with 2 Caltrops scare the pants off of everyone while the 10 man Splinter Cannon toting Warrior Squad shreds infantry.

Best i can do with those limitations, but it should be fun!

Thanks for the advice guys!

Just to clarify, I am willing to buy a few more units, I just don't want to end up owning every unit in the codex...

And yeah, orIginally (with the old dex) I was going to go transport heavy for DE, with three Venoms, a Raider and a Ravager at 1000pts. It sounds like this is still the way to go?

And I heard wyches aren't great anymore, are they still worth taking? And are Reavers still as awesome as they were? It was my original plan to get another box of them.

blaktoof wrote:
Non Special Character HQs

Archon

profile unchanged

cost unchanged

special rules the same [note that PfP has changed]

Gained- may buy a venom or raider as a dedicated transport

Ultimately the differences between the new Archon and the Old Archon are in the wargear.

Most notably the Husk blade is now ap 3 instead of 2, and soul trap has changed.

Soul Trap
Old- If bearer kills an enemy independent character or monstrous creature can take a LD test, if passed doubles strength of bearer, to max strength 10.
New- For each unsaved wound inflicted in challenge on an enemy character gain +1 strength (up to max strength 10)

PGL- no longer grants grenades to unit, instead gives a shooting attack that does wounds based off LD roll, fearless and ATSKNF models immune. The ability to grant a court, incubi, grots, wracks, or any other unit joined grenades is now gone.Blast pistol- still range 6.

Shadowfield has changed slightly, for the better
Old- 30 pts
New-40 pts, works until the end of the phased it is lost due to failed save, and is no longer 1 per army.

Webway portal- large change
Old- let you put out small blast marker sized "marker" and models could arrive from it from reserves
New-If model with WWP is in reserves or ongoing reserves, the model and any unit it has joined or is embarked upon has the Deep Strike special rule. This model, and this unit will not scatter if arriving from deepstrike reserve.


This is a very large change.

Essentially you can put a model with a WWP with any unit it can join in reserves, and now they can arrive anywhere you choose. This is something the Dark Eldar needed for a long time and is fluffy as well as powerful.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Auswin wrote:
You really need a lot of transports for DE. I don't think they can work as a footdar army at all. Realistically you want around three raiders and four venoms in a 1500 pt list.

Pick if you want Kabals, Wych Cult or Covens and build from there. I like Kabals the best, so amass a lot of Kabalite warriors. They're pretty cheap and should allow you to convert enough trueborn out of them.

In terms of allying with Eldar: I think it's all about kabalites and WWP archons to bring along D-Sythe wraithguard or fire dragons.

+1 to this.

also for allying dark eldar bring FA slot open topped transports, which may be attractive to harlequins, banshees, Striking scorpions,and wraithblades.

Dont Archons come with Plasma Grenades anyway? so all they really lost from the launcher was defensive grenades?

 The Shadow wrote:

Thanks for the advice guys!

Just to clarify, I am willing to buy a few more units, I just don't want to end up owning every unit in the codex...

And yeah, orIginally (with the old dex) I was going to go transport heavy for DE, with three Venoms, a Raider and a Ravager at 1000pts. It sounds like this is still the way to go?

And I heard wyches aren't great anymore, are they still worth taking? And are Reavers still as awesome as they were? It was my original plan to get another box of them.

The venoms certainly still have use. You can probably find a place for the single raider. The ravager will do alright until you can replace it.

No wyches are not worth taking.

Reavers changed, from one kind of awesome to another thing that may well also be awesome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 extremefreak17 wrote:


Dont Archons come with Plasma Grenades anyway? so all they really lost from the launcher was defensive grenades?

Archons do come with plasma grenades. But incubi, grotesques, beasts, hellions, wracks, etc do not come with grenades. The PGL allowed you to give all those units grenades, now it doesnt. So while the archon is no worse for the change, half the army is.