Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Hulksmash wrote: Because adding a faction to a line on life support is a smart business decision....
Personally I'm loving the End Times stuff. I realize rules wise we're probably going to see most of this end up in 9th so the rule portion of these books is meh. But the actual fluff books are awesome and enjoyable.
Now as long as someone doesn't wake up from a dream I'm a happy camper. If someone wakes up from a dream people need to let me know which page it happens on so I can just stop reading right up to it
It wouldn't be on life support. It's been 3 or 4 years since I had a GW army, but I can guarantee that if a Cathy or Nippon force came out, I'd happily throw down a wad of banknotes for it. And I suspect many others would as well.
Agree with you about the dream idea. I've got an uneasy feeling that GW are going to do a Dallas on the end times.
By god I hope they do, they've already killed off/destroyed about a third of my favourite parts of the setting and there's still two whole books to go by all accounts. If they end up with a Warhammer World without Kislev, Tilea, Estalia; half of the Empire(including most of the interesting cities) gone, half of Bretonnia gone, loads of interesting characters dead, and a lot of factions eliminated/combined together, it's not even actually the Warhammer World any more is it. It's particularly galling that they went with the gak-hurling chimp strategy when, as you point out, half of the existing world was almost completely unexplored in terms of the game, and barely fleshed out in terms of the fluff - Cathay, Nippon, Araby, Estalia, Tilea, the Border Princes, the Southlands, bringing back Dogs of War, doing multiple Imperial Armour/Stormclaw-style campaigns with tons of detail and a narrower focus, doing Heresy-style historical campaigns - there were tons of ways for them to refresh and expand the setting without tearing up huge chunks of it.
I hope they destroy everything about the world of warhammer including most, if not all the character. Put Warhammer fantasy on the shelf for a year or two, revamp their whole lines and do a massive relaunch of the "New Age". New rules, characters, lore etc...
Serious question; if you dislike essentially everything about Fantasy, why not play one of the numerous other high-fantasy wargames on the market, rather than hoping for something that would ruin the game for loads of other people? I've never understood this mentality of "I don't like this thing, so rather than finding something I do like, I'll argue that/demand the whole thing should be changed into something I do like". If I don't like Football, I go and watch/play Rugby or Tennis instead, I don't sit there hoping the rules of Football will be completely changed to suit my own tastes.
Fantasy is selling poorly and needs to be cut down in size and scope. Introducing new factions or expanding old ones is the opposite of what they want to do, from the looks of it. That's why "tearing up huge chunks" is their best option.
No, Fantasy is selling poorly and GWbelieve it needs to be cut down in size and scope. Whether that belief, and thus their chosen solution, are valid depends entirely on whether they actually understand the reasons why Fantasy is selling poorly. They're making the exact same mistakes they made with Specialist Games; sales were down because of inconsistent model releases, poor event support, and failure to address evident flaws in the rules, they responded by further slowing and eventually altogether stopping model releases, cutting all event support, dropping all the fan-supported publications, and finally abandoning the rulesets altogether, which unsurprisingly failed to generate the big spike in sales they wanted. This time around they're trying a different solution by gutting the background material, releasing a few new-shiny large models, and compressing the army lists down, but once again I'd contend that they're solving a problem that didn't exist and failing to address the actual issues most people have with Fantasy; lack of support/new content(note that "new" does not have to mean "advancing the whole plot on a global, world-ending scale"), issues with the rules, and the abhorrent cost of fielding the large blocks of infantry the game revolves around. It doesn't matter how much of the background they cack all over, how many factions they delete/compress, or how small they make the focus of the future storyline; if they fail to address the actual barriers people have to them buying more Fantasy products, this whole End Times mess will amount to a temporary sales-spike due to the new models(which I freely admit are quite nice, Nagash aside), and then they'll be right back where they started, only this time having nuked the whole setting from orbit they'll be in an even worse position to actually build Fantasy back up to its past levels of popularity.
The reason is not to gak on the people who still enjoy it. The reason is to breath new life into it, I grew up on WH:F. I grew up on Warhammer, with a collection of books, miniatures, and nearly every edition codex for WoC and Elves, but it has become stale. The world never advances the characters and models become old. Why would I watch the exact same episode of a tv show for 20 years over and over and over again and not want to see progression?.
Games Workshop has a chance to revamp and rethink how their game plays out. The End Times has been the best set of releases they have ever done for Fantasy. They are moving it into a new direction why not usher in a new era? My gaming group and I have abandoned the official Warhammer Fantasy rules for Kings of War.
40k has the same issue... it is always 40k... What would the 40k universe look like as 50k? Who would not want new characters, new lore, new life into their favorite universe? I say let those who are do not want anything to change keep playing with what you have and never look forward, it would be no different than what you do today.
Why are people like you so afraid of change? Do you not want to see a new balanced rulebook, new character and units?
A; As I've pointed out, repeatedly, there's no need to change the background so substantially in order to fix the actual problems with the game; rules and prices/unit size.
B; The reason why you can't grasp where I'm coming from, and why I find your perspective alien, is because we're evidently coming at this from completely different angles - you want, as you say, a TV show that feeds you new content on a schedule and rotates the cast of characters to create the illusion of change(because they just end up using the same character tropes and story themes over and over again with extremely minor variation anyway), I want a sandbox with very broadly defined but pretty much static limits in which I can tell my own stories - did you know I've run campaigns set in the future in both Fantasy and 40K? I have, because it's an interesting "what if?" subject, but I still think GW doing either is a crappy idea, because their idea will inevitably tread on a lot of people's toes by invalidating armies and stories players have put huge amounts of effort into, End Times being a perfect example; half the Old World gone, half the Empire gone, so what happens to people who liked those parts of the world, who were running campaigns set in them, armies based in or from them? Me and a few mates put a LOT of effort into our "future Fantasy" material, we essentially rewrote the whole Storm of Chaos debacle from scratch, now that work was completely pointless since half the character involved are dead, some of the cities where major plot points happened are gone, and entire nations which played a major role have been wiped out in a quarter page afterthought blurb. You may think that's all a price worth paying for such literary masterpieces as Super Saiyan Franz, I don't.
If your group is already playing in your own fanon for the setting, why does it matter what GW's "official" version is? It doesn't invalidate what you've done for your group, it just means that it doesn't fit into the mainstream of the multiverse that is Fantasy. We've already seen this happen in official products before(WHFRP 1st ed and WHFB 4th had vastly different storylines going on, including, IIRC, Karl Franz being dead and another emperor ascending the throne).
I've seen this argument before in RPGs that have evolving storylines and it didn't make sense then either. If you want it to be a setting, use it as asetting and to hell with the "official" story.
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
Pretty much agree with everything you're saying, Plat. Boggles the mind that you can put that much effort into something unoffical and then feel its ruined by official stuff going in a different direction.
But like Yodhrin, I am kind of miffed that my Karl Franz, Ludwig Schwarzhelm, Kurt Helborg love triangle erotic fanfiction is now invalidated by the death of one of the characters and another became a demigod. Thanks Tom Kirby, thanks alot. I was almost done and ready to share it with the world and now its in the trash bin with Yodhrins alternate Storm of Chaos story.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/22 11:03:09
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
2014/11/22 11:30:56
Subject: Re:WFB End Times wave III P6 softbackreprints
Don't blame me for Endtimes hardbacks selling out quicker than hotcakes.
I freely admit to buying more than one copy of space hulk but when it comes to end times, I'm innocent - I haven't bought anything.
It's puzzling to why the softbacks are almost the same price as the hardbacks. Other companies would handle it differently, but this is gw, I suppose.
I agree with people's concerns about the direction of WFB. The game needed freshening up and some of the dead wood needed swept away. Yeah, I'm talking about Grey Seer Thanquol
but evolution is preferable to revolution. GW seem to think it's a good idea to set fire to the house to keep you warm. Sure, it'll work for a while...
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
The reason is not to gak on the people who still enjoy it. The reason is to breath new life into it, I grew up on WH:F. I grew up on Warhammer, with a collection of books, miniatures, and nearly every edition codex for WoC and Elves, but it has become stale. The world never advances the characters and models become old. Why would I watch the exact same episode of a tv show for 20 years over and over and over again and not want to see progression?.
Games Workshop has a chance to revamp and rethink how their game plays out. The End Times has been the best set of releases they have ever done for Fantasy. They are moving it into a new direction why not usher in a new era? My gaming group and I have abandoned the official Warhammer Fantasy rules for Kings of War.
40k has the same issue... it is always 40k... What would the 40k universe look like as 50k? Who would not want new characters, new lore, new life into their favorite universe? I say let those who are do not want anything to change keep playing with what you have and never look forward, it would be no different than what you do today.
Why are people like you so afraid of change? Do you not want to see a new balanced rulebook, new character and units?
The best way to explain my trepidation about the "End Times" is, ironically, using your example.
You say 40K is always 40K...What would it look like as 50K?
We don't have to want 40K to stay 40K to not want GW to skip TEN THOUSAND YEARS.
The fact that the background has not had much advancement doesn't mean that it now needs to be radically changed in almost every aspect. We could want to see development and change without the death of gods, the resurrection of Nagash, the fall of multiple cities and countries, the alteration of magic, etc.
In fact, the very fact that GW has been unable to meaningfully advance the Warhammer world for the last 25 years would be a very strong argument for the position that they won't do a good job of it over a few months.
Not only this, but it also makes a lot of their own backlist increasingly irrelevant. Who cares about WFRP when everything in those books is no longer relevant. Who wants to buy ebooks of older BL novels, when no characters, locations, or situations in them are still relevant?
I might lament that the pasta served doesn't have enough tomato. That isn't an invitation to drown the remaining pasta in tomato paste.
I looked forward to development and change in Warhammer Fantasy. I didn't look for throwing out most of the setting and changing almost everything over the course of a few game years.
On top of all that, there is the insistent, obviously hyperbolic, branding of this as "the End Times". This is one of the worst habits of GW in regards to 40K, immediately displaced over to Fantasy. EVERYTHING important happens in the last year or two of the 41st millennium. Armageddon, Necron awakenings, Tau expansion, Tyranid incursions, Rynn's World disaster, Leviathan on course for Baal, Ork attacks on Knight worlds, etc. The game universe has a tremendous history and scope, but GW seems unable to do anything BEFORE or AFTER M40.999. That doesn't make me confident that the Fantasy End Times will advance the storyline.
Very well put.
The only thing that I can say to interject is, objectively, at this point the game has changed very little. Everything in the 'End Times' books is optional; 'End Times' is a game expansion (Save the 50% Lords & Heros, which was added through the Errats - the only thing to be added). If one does not like it one dies not have to play it.
We will not know for sure what direction the game is going until 9th is released.
That having been said, if a person enjoys playing 8th there is nothing necessitating them to move on to 9th. Those who feel the need to switch are mostly tournament players and, in my experience, usually those who care the least about the story.
2014/11/22 14:29:23
Subject: WFB End Times wave III P6 softbackreprints
Hulksmash wrote: I'm a little annoyed. They only allotted 2 of them to my local store....And the store owner ordered two more via pre-order but that's it and I'm not one of the first 4....
I'm way beyond annoyed. I'm furious, and for all the good it'll do (none) emailed GW to let them know.
Heck, the local GW store manager called US corporate about it, he had so many people trying and failing to pre-order one through his store, he lost about $500 in sales.
2014/11/22 15:09:15
Subject: Re:WFB End Times wave III P6 softbackreprints
There were four or five people planning on ordering the standard edition at my local GW, and as far as I know the only person getting a copy is the guy who orders limited editions every time there is a new book.
So come next Saturday I have to get there early to hopefully get one of maybe two copies. Glottkin had ONE copy on the shelf, so I'm thinking two might be overly generous in my guesses...
nels1031 wrote: Pretty much agree with everything you're saying, Plat. Boggles the mind that you can put that much effort into something unoffical and then feel its ruined by official stuff going in a different direction.
But like Yodhrin, I am kind of miffed that my Karl Franz, Ludwig Schwarzhelm, Kurt Helborg love triangle erotic fanfiction is now invalidated by the death of one of the characters and another became a demigod. Thanks Tom Kirby, thanks alot. I was almost done and ready to share it with the world and now its in the trash bin with Yodhrins alternate Storm of Chaos story.
Nice to see that your first thought isn't to argue the point but act like a smartarse; does that come naturally, or do you practice?
I like the Warhammer World, I work very hard to make sure any new material I add fits the themes and aesthetics of the existing world and fiction, and I work even harder to avoid contradicting the official material - when I run a campaign set in the world's present or past, I don't just decide this character or that one is still alive when the fiction says they're dead, I don't change the outcome of battles we know the outcome of, the only reason we rewrote the SoC material is GW rolled it back and pretended it didn't happen, so we saw it as fair game. Now almost everything in that campaign setting is in conflict with the new material, so I either rerwrite the whole thing again to fit the new material, which I'm not particularly motivated to do since GW have wiped out the majority of the bits of the Old World I find interesting, or I leave it as it is, in which case I'm not running a campaign set in the Warhammer World anymore am I. I don't get why this is so difficult for a few people here to grasp.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
Hulksmash wrote: Because adding a faction to a line on life support is a smart business decision....
Personally I'm loving the End Times stuff. I realize rules wise we're probably going to see most of this end up in 9th so the rule portion of these books is meh. But the actual fluff books are awesome and enjoyable.
Now as long as someone doesn't wake up from a dream I'm a happy camper. If someone wakes up from a dream people need to let me know which page it happens on so I can just stop reading right up to it
It wouldn't be on life support. It's been 3 or 4 years since I had a GW army, but I can guarantee that if a Cathy or Nippon force came out, I'd happily throw down a wad of banknotes for it. And I suspect many others would as well.
Agree with you about the dream idea. I've got an uneasy feeling that GW are going to do a Dallas on the end times.
By god I hope they do, they've already killed off/destroyed about a third of my favourite parts of the setting and there's still two whole books to go by all accounts. If they end up with a Warhammer World without Kislev, Tilea, Estalia; half of the Empire(including most of the interesting cities) gone, half of Bretonnia gone, loads of interesting characters dead, and a lot of factions eliminated/combined together, it's not even actually the Warhammer World any more is it. It's particularly galling that they went with the gak-hurling chimp strategy when, as you point out, half of the existing world was almost completely unexplored in terms of the game, and barely fleshed out in terms of the fluff - Cathay, Nippon, Araby, Estalia, Tilea, the Border Princes, the Southlands, bringing back Dogs of War, doing multiple Imperial Armour/Stormclaw-style campaigns with tons of detail and a narrower focus, doing Heresy-style historical campaigns - there were tons of ways for them to refresh and expand the setting without tearing up huge chunks of it.
I hope they destroy everything about the world of warhammer including most, if not all the character. Put Warhammer fantasy on the shelf for a year or two, revamp their whole lines and do a massive relaunch of the "New Age". New rules, characters, lore etc...
Serious question; if you dislike essentially everything about Fantasy, why not play one of the numerous other high-fantasy wargames on the market, rather than hoping for something that would ruin the game for loads of other people? I've never understood this mentality of "I don't like this thing, so rather than finding something I do like, I'll argue that/demand the whole thing should be changed into something I do like". If I don't like Football, I go and watch/play Rugby or Tennis instead, I don't sit there hoping the rules of Football will be completely changed to suit my own tastes.
Fantasy is selling poorly and needs to be cut down in size and scope. Introducing new factions or expanding old ones is the opposite of what they want to do, from the looks of it. That's why "tearing up huge chunks" is their best option.
No, Fantasy is selling poorly and GWbelieve it needs to be cut down in size and scope. Whether that belief, and thus their chosen solution, are valid depends entirely on whether they actually understand the reasons why Fantasy is selling poorly. They're making the exact same mistakes they made with Specialist Games; sales were down because of inconsistent model releases, poor event support, and failure to address evident flaws in the rules, they responded by further slowing and eventually altogether stopping model releases, cutting all event support, dropping all the fan-supported publications, and finally abandoning the rulesets altogether, which unsurprisingly failed to generate the big spike in sales they wanted. This time around they're trying a different solution by gutting the background material, releasing a few new-shiny large models, and compressing the army lists down, but once again I'd contend that they're solving a problem that didn't exist and failing to address the actual issues most people have with Fantasy; lack of support/new content(note that "new" does not have to mean "advancing the whole plot on a global, world-ending scale"), issues with the rules, and the abhorrent cost of fielding the large blocks of infantry the game revolves around. It doesn't matter how much of the background they cack all over, how many factions they delete/compress, or how small they make the focus of the future storyline; if they fail to address the actual barriers people have to them buying more Fantasy products, this whole End Times mess will amount to a temporary sales-spike due to the new models(which I freely admit are quite nice, Nagash aside), and then they'll be right back where they started, only this time having nuked the whole setting from orbit they'll be in an even worse position to actually build Fantasy back up to its past levels of popularity.
The reason is not to gak on the people who still enjoy it. The reason is to breath new life into it, I grew up on WH:F. I grew up on Warhammer, with a collection of books, miniatures, and nearly every edition codex for WoC and Elves, but it has become stale. The world never advances the characters and models become old. Why would I watch the exact same episode of a tv show for 20 years over and over and over again and not want to see progression?.
Games Workshop has a chance to revamp and rethink how their game plays out. The End Times has been the best set of releases they have ever done for Fantasy. They are moving it into a new direction why not usher in a new era? My gaming group and I have abandoned the official Warhammer Fantasy rules for Kings of War.
40k has the same issue... it is always 40k... What would the 40k universe look like as 50k? Who would not want new characters, new lore, new life into their favorite universe? I say let those who are do not want anything to change keep playing with what you have and never look forward, it would be no different than what you do today.
Why are people like you so afraid of change? Do you not want to see a new balanced rulebook, new character and units?
A; As I've pointed out, repeatedly, there's no need to change the background so substantially in order to fix the actual problems with the game; rules and prices/unit size.
B; The reason why you can't grasp where I'm coming from, and why I find your perspective alien, is because we're evidently coming at this from completely different angles - you want, as you say, a TV show that feeds you new content on a schedule and rotates the cast of characters to create the illusion of change(because they just end up using the same character tropes and story themes over and over again with extremely minor variation anyway), I want a sandbox with very broadly defined but pretty much static limits in which I can tell my own stories - did you know I've run campaigns set in the future in both Fantasy and 40K? I have, because it's an interesting "what if?" subject, but I still think GW doing either is a crappy idea, because their idea will inevitably tread on a lot of people's toes by invalidating armies and stories players have put huge amounts of effort into, End Times being a perfect example; half the Old World gone, half the Empire gone, so what happens to people who liked those parts of the world, who were running campaigns set in them, armies based in or from them? Me and a few mates put a LOT of effort into our "future Fantasy" material, we essentially rewrote the whole Storm of Chaos debacle from scratch, now that work was completely pointless since half the character involved are dead, some of the cities where major plot points happened are gone, and entire nations which played a major role have been wiped out in a quarter page afterthought blurb. You may think that's all a price worth paying for such literary masterpieces as Super Saiyan Franz, I don't.
Just because GW decided to shake up their story and timeline, doesn't mean you have to. You can ignore the End Times story to your hearts' content. Tell the stories you want to, set them whenever you want to. Tell a story where the Slaan are all secretly Chaos-worshipers, who cares? No one is stopping you from telling the story you want.
As a for instance, my Empire army's background is that of a Border Prince who, through a large donation to the Imperial coffers, became a largely autonomous province and ally of the Empire. My general isn't an Elector, but he gets to call himself Count. Even through the End Times, I'll still keep the same background. I'll just need to read up on the new fluff to figure out exactly how it's going to work into the new world. I'm certainly not going to run around calling my general the Emperor or anything, but a minor tweak is no trouble.
I really think people dumping on the End Times from a purely fluff perspective are making a mountain out of molehill.
She/Her
"There are no problems that cannot be solved with cannons." - Chief Engineer Boris Krauss of Nuln
Kid_Kyoto wrote:"Don't be a dick" and "This is a family wargame" are good rules of thumb.
I have to imagine that the cross-section of people both running alternate future campaigns that they have put a significant amount of work into AND are highly bothered by the End Times fluff changes is... minuscule to say the least. I think catering to such a tiny group would be a pretty terrible idea. If you are one of those people, you are probably driven and creative enough to adapt to it. Considering the sales of the End Times books and the general response and excitement, it seems they made the right decisions so far, and personally I'm more excited by the Warhammer world than I have been in a very long time. I'm certainly starting a Fantasy army when 9th comes around.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2014/11/23 08:07:05
2014/11/23 13:01:28
Subject: WFB End Times wave III P6 softbackreprints
Mymearan wrote: I have to imagine that the cross-section of people both running alternate future campaigns that they have put a significant amount of work into AND are highly bothered by the End Times fluff changes is... minuscule to say the least. I think catering to such a tiny group would be a pretty terrible idea. If you are one of those people, you are probably driven and creative enough to adapt to it. Considering the sales of the End Times books and the general response and excitement, it seems they made the right decisions so far, and personally I'm more excited by the Warhammer world than I have been in a very long time. I'm certainly starting a Fantasy army when 9th comes around.
Agreed.
The fact that the book sold out in 8 minutes and the largest percentage of complaints are "I didn't get one" demonstrates the net positive excitement that "End Times" has generated.
GW focuses a lot of effort on attracting new players. End times seems to be for those who have been playing for a while.
The negative impact that End Times is having on the WH community is this sales strategy of having a limited number. It is causing 'want'. When you create 'want' but do not deliver, for what ever reason, the follow-up reaction ranges from dissatisfaction to anger. For a brand, any brand, to go this route is kind of foolish from a consumers perspective as it could be pecived "I don't care". Sure it moves stock fast but it seriously diminishes the respect for the brand, and a brand is a relationship forged when you have a quality product and people who are happy to buy it.
Other companies who have employed this sales strategy usually do a second and third run of the product to satiate the hunger they cause.
In this context I don't know if the paperback versions of End Times will be enough for those most effected.
2014/11/23 13:40:19
Subject: WFB End Times wave III P6 softbackreprints
I have to wonder if maybe these "limited numbers" are caused by the simple fact that they think WHFB is dead.
Books are one of the few things that GW outsources to a third party at this point(they don't print them in-house), with tools and paints being the other. The lead time on getting books printed is probably give or take a few months.
Khaine is the first one to sell out in that obscenely low time.
2014/11/23 13:58:07
Subject: WFB End Times wave III P6 softbackreprints
I'm enjoying the End Times. Our gaming group plays a lot of different games but these books have brought WFB back to the table. The reason is that we all like story progression and these books are scratching that itch.
I hope that these books are leading into a new era for the game and will become canon. We were frustrated with Storm of Magic and would like to see the world evolve beyond simply finding new monsters to add to the army books.
Even if it doesn't happen, there is nothing stopping my group from trading the materail whatever way we like.
My goal is to enjoy the game and the time I get to spend with my friends. It's my hobby and I have too much in my regular life to worry about
2014/11/26 13:43:34
Subject: Re:WFB End Times wave III P6 softbackreprints
Just noticed this while on the GW website, did you know that if you scroll your mouse wheel it changes the size of the magnifying glass when looking at sprue pictures?
Slightly less annoyed at that particular feature change. Didn't think it warranted its own thread.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/23 16:43:41
Kanluwen wrote: I have to wonder if maybe these "limited numbers" are caused by the simple fact that they think WHFB is dead.
Books are one of the few things that GW outsources to a third party at this point(they don't print them in-house), with tools and paints being the other. The lead time on getting books printed is probably give or take a few months.
Khaine is the first one to sell out in that obscenely low time.
I think far from it. It is more of a cash grab if anything.
The way I see it working is this:
- GW knows WH is popular so they dream up something everyone will want; something people will not want to go without. In this case a big time story changer.
-They make a limited run of the book to wet the appetite. Desire to possess this new limited edition product triggers a response in people that drives 'want'. This ensures that when the product comes out they will sell all of them quickly, thus recouping all the money initially invested to make the product in the first place. At the same time they are making a handsome profit. This can also make those who are lucky enough to get the limited edition product feel privileged. A very superficial boost to the ego allowing those who have it to enjoy the product all the more.
- if they are realy planning ahead then they can use the profit of these limited edition product to fund the second wave of releases (I.e. Paperback version) so when the product that everyone can get is released it will be all profit. Because there are more people left hungy than sated they will sell a lot more.
Genius really. All that is needed to be successful is for people to act predictably and...
So is WH dead? Far from it. It is a plum quite ripe for the picking and GW is in harvest mode.
2014/11/23 20:24:25
Subject: Re:WFB End Times wave III P6 softbackreprints
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: It's puzzling to why the softbacks are almost the same price as the hardbacks. Other companies would handle it differently, but this is gw, I suppose.
Why only 10 less for softback versions?
1. GW considers more of the value is in the contents than the binding. The binding is worth about $10 to GW (codices went up about $15 with the switch to hardcover and full color interiors, so the math is similar)
2. It's likely that the softbacks were planned for in the future, but demand for hardbacks was so high they had to push them out sooner, with less lead time, meaning more expensive print run.
3. If they dropped the price too much, it would devalue the hardbacks, and there would be tons of protests from people who bought the hardbacks- A 75$ hardback for $65 in softback, fine, the hardback is nicer. a 75$ hardback or say a $50 dollar softback, why am I paying 50% more for the same rules and fluff when the guys who waited got it so much cheaper?
2014/11/23 20:25:52
Subject: WFB End Times wave III P6 softbackreprints
MajorWesJanson wrote: If they dropped the price too much, it would devalue the hardbacks, and there would be tons of protests from people who bought the hardbacks- A 75$ hardback for $65 in softback, fine, the hardback is nicer. a 75$ hardback or say a $50 dollar softback, why am I paying 50% more for the same rules and fluff when the guys who waited got it so much cheaper?
You're paying more because it's still a fancier version than what everyone else will get. That's the entire idea behind limited edition stuff, it's the same exact content that comes in a prettier, more expensive package. That's it. If that bothers you then why are you buying any of GW's limited edition content in the first place?
Desubot wrote: Why isnt Slut Wars: The Sexpocalypse a real game dammit.
"It's easier to change the rules than to get good at the game."
2014/11/24 15:57:17
Subject: WFB End Times wave III P6 softbackreprints
Despite the fact that these books don't overwrite the army books.
Despite the fact that there were several characters left out of Nagash(Konrad and Isabella von Carstein immediately spring to mind) that aren't cut out of the army book.
Malus has no model right now though and what's more, he's a minor lore figure at best.
2014/11/24 17:24:42
Subject: Re:WFB End Times wave III P6 softbackreprints
Despite the fact that these books don't overwrite the army books.
Despite the fact that there were several characters left out of Nagash(Konrad and Isabella von Carstein immediately spring to mind) that aren't cut out of the army book.
Malus has no model right now though and what's more, he's a minor lore figure at best.
End Times doesnt directly overwrite anything, buuuuut its a good indicator of what the next edition holds, say goodbye to distinct books for undead, chaos, and elves, and say hello to larger compilation volumes.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
2014/11/24 18:54:37
Subject: WFB End Times wave III P6 softbackreprints
Despite the fact that these books don't overwrite the army books.
Despite the fact that there were several characters left out of Nagash(Konrad and Isabella von Carstein immediately spring to mind) that aren't cut out of the army book.
Malus has no model right now though and what's more, he's a minor lore figure at best.
End Times doesnt directly overwrite anything, buuuuut its a good indicator of what the next edition holds, say goodbye to distinct books for undead, chaos, and elves, and say hello to larger compilation volumes.
That's what people said about 40k when the Black Templars got rolled into Space Marines.
2014/11/24 18:59:25
Subject: WFB End Times wave III P6 softbackreprints
pities2004 wrote: Time to convert a good phoenix king version of Malekith, now dwarfs are really not going to trust elves.
Hmmm, Malekith was pretty damn respected by the Dwarves in his early years as conqueror of the new world and emissary to the dwarves, themselves.
Reminding them of that, and reinforcing the belief that the whole war of the beard thing was due to High Elves hubris and he could quite easily get back in with them, I reckon.
Appealing to the Dwarves proud history and reminding them of how things could have been and so on.
Malekith is a very cunning politician, I think he has a better chance of reuniting the Elves and Dwarves than any other Elf.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
but when it comes to end times, I'm innocent - I haven't bought anything.
