Blood Angel Rumours: Anyone Else Worrying?

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**l1ttlej**

So I know it's only rumours at the moment but I've seen in a few places the loss of ASM as troops....

Dunno about everyone else but this makes me worry that we've just become the "red" space marines..... I was initially worried when the new tactical blood angels box set was released and it seems my worries were well founded...

An army where it's entire special rules+warlord traits focus is around assault and jump packs, and then to take away their stable troop choice in favour of slow non-assault troops which you have to have 2 squads of...... dropping prob 200 or so points essentially completely out of sync with the rest of your army.

Maybe I'm worrying about nothing, but considering how many assault marines I have and how the past 3 editions I've had a team where it's entire focus is fast combat.... these rumours are disappointing to say the least.

**Wise Guy Sam**

Unbound brah. It's a real thing.

**Rippy**

Worrying about having to have 2 5 man squads of scouts, and with so many points drops across the board, fielding pretty much same army as before? Nothing to worry about.
4 elite slots now as well.

**der ray**

The Blood Angels did fluffwise take the same amount of Assault Marines as any other chapter. They are pretty in line with the codex astartes so in terms of fluff it makes sense.

**CrownAxe**

I don't see it mattering at all. Everything scorse, they put Baal Preds in heavy and there is nothing else to take in fast (except for empty drop pods I guess) so you can easily take 3 units of assault marines if you want.

Also codex's are being written with unlimited detachments in mind so you could just take multiple cads/BA detachments

**Blacksails**

AnyONE. None of this l33t speak nonsense.

And they've always just been the Red Marines. gakky deal for the people who built their armies around ASM, but I'm also one of those people who would like all the loyalist marines in one book, so this doesn't have me worried.

**Thairne**

it is a worrying trend though. Just looking at Dark Angels this makes me shiver my timbers.
Just HAVING to have scouts in a pure RW or DW List is off-putting. So I feel with my red brothers here, it just takes away from your playstyle (and in the case of DW is horribly unfluffy!)

**Corporal_Chaos**

I think wise guy Sam said it. Unbound. If you are a competive player vs a story or fun player I see it being a pinch but if it is just you and your group of friends. The foc is just a guide line. The rules are a frame work for us to meet under an standard for strangers. When we game with our friends the frame can be changed to help us enjoy more of our collections. Narrative games like these new starter sets. Well enough rambling. Hope you find a solution.

**Makumba**

BA seem to have a lot of elite units.

**nosferatu1001**

Not at all worried, spoke to the main rules writer, seems good to me.

ASM are no more prevalent in BA than RW or DW are for DA. they just use them differently or have a specific use for them

**Thud**

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Not at all worried, spoke to the main rules writer, seems good to me.

ASM are no more prevalent in BA than RW or DW are for DA. they just use them differently or have a specific use for them

And yet DA have rules to represent those companies, and SM have rules to represent battle formations of all assault marines (on bikes), and FW has rules for Raven Guard to field (almost) pure JP armies.

**Makumba**

Yeah well that isn't exactly the truth. Other chapters use their assault company for bikers and drivers , BAs don't. they use them all as RAS. So they do have more RAS in their companies then other chapters.

**SilverDevilfish**

Thud wrote:
nosferatu1001 wrote:
Not at all worried, spoke to the main rules writer, seems good to me.

ASM are no more prevalent in BA than RW or DW are for DA. they just use them differently or have a specific use for them

And yet DA have rules to represent those companies, and SM have rules to represent battle formations of all assault marines (on bikes), and FW has rules for Raven Guard to field (almost) pure JP armies.

I have this horrible horrible feeling that those things, well except for the FW rules, are going to be gone when they get around to those codices. The DW and RW especially scream "Here's a supplement/formation".

**l1ttlej**

unbound is fairly idiotic.. just because you're playing with friends doesn't mean you want to abandon all competitiveness and lose your army wide rules.... for example tell a dark eldar play to take unbound loosing his bonus in night fighting or say buff from haemonculous coven....

All I'm saying is that an army with universal rules for ON THE CHARGE +1 I and +1S and then to be forced to take scouts and tacticals... how exactly does this make sense?

Like I said before it's just sad that we've lost a fair amount of orginality where say other teams for example spacewolves, were lucky enough to maintain an independence from the c:sm book.

**Boniface**

l1ttlej wrote:

Like I said before it's just sad that we've lost a fair amount of orginality where say other teams for example spacewolves, were lucky enough to maintain an independence from the c:sm book.

Let's be honest though, Space Wolves are a joke.

**DaPino**

I love how everyone keeps saying Blood Angels are 'just red marines now', while that is exactly what they are and have always been.

**vipoid**

l1ttlej wrote:
unbound is fairly idiotic.. just because you're playing with friends doesn't mean you want to abandon all competitiveness and lose your army wide rules.... for example tell a dark eldar play to take unbound loosing his bonus in night fighting or say buff from haemonculous coven....

Sorry, but could you elaborate on this?

Since when does Unbound make you lose army-wide rules?

**DaddyWarcrimes**

Unbound means you aren't using detachments or formations so you don't get any detachment or formation bonuses, like ObSec, or the free WS for Company of the Great Wolf, or the various Haemonculus Coven formation special rules.

**Toofast**

Relax, I'm sure they'll sell it back to you in a $50 supplement like they did with us using WG as troops.

**Sir Arun**

l1ttlej wrote:
So I know it's only rumours at the moment but I've seen in a few places the loss of ASM as troops....

Dunno about everyone else but this makes me worry that we've just become the "red" space marines..... I was initially worried when the new tactical blood angels box set was released and it seems my worries were well founded...

An army where it's entire special rules+warlord traits focus is around assault and jump packs, and then to take away their stable troop choice in favour of slow non-assault troops which you have to have 2 squads of...... dropping prob 200 or so points essentially completely out of sync with the rest of your army.

Maybe I'm worrying about nothing, but considering how many assault marines I have and how the past 3 editions I've had a team where it's entire focus is fast combat.... these rumours are disappointing to say the least.

Worrying about nothing? Lol most of the main changes of the new codex are already leaked here:

http://natfka.blogspot.co.at/2014/12/blood-angels-codex-rules-with-latest.html

**Vaktathi**

A lot of these changes should have been obvious from the outset of the 5E codex. Baal preds were never going to stay FA units forever, anymore than IG players in 2009 expected their Vendetta lists to work beyond that one iteration of the book.

Most of the rest should have been expected given the way the other Marine books have done, particularly the other 7E marine books. Be glad that lots of units simply aren't disappearing as they did with the IG codex.

Honestly, this book appears to be a "de-Warding", returning the BA's to what they always were, a rather codex adherent Chapter with a couple quirks and a preference for close combat, as opposed to some sort of flying circus.

I'll admit it's a somewhat odd turn given that there's relatively little now that couldn't be covered by folding them into the basic SM book with a unit Chapter Tactics rule, but they do fit their own fluff better now. They never had great gobs of assault marines for instance, even in the 5E book they have no more assault marine squads than the Ultramarines do and Tactical squads outnumber Assault Squads two to one.

We'll see how it turns out I guess.

**vipoid**

DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
Unbound means you aren't using detachments or formations so you don't get any detachment or formation bonuses, like ObSec, or the free WS for Company of the Great Wolf, or the various Haemonculus Coven formation special rules.

Ah, I see. It was the remark about losing Night Vision that confused me - since that has nothing to do with any formation or detachment.

**niv-mizzet**

vipoid wrote:
DaddyWarcrimes wrote:
Unbound means you aren't using detachments or formations so you don't get any detachment or formation bonuses, like ObSec, or the free WS for Company of the Great Wolf, or the various Haemonculus Coven formation special rules.

Ah, I see. It was the remark about losing Night Vision that confused me - since that has nothing to do with any formation or detachment.

He didn't say night vision, he said bonus in night, which they do get from their detachment and formation both.

**vipoid**

niv-mizzet wrote:

He didn't say night vision, he said bonus in night, which they do get from their detachment and formation both.

Actually, he said "bonus in night fighting", but whatever.

My mistake, regardless.

**Tiger9gamer**

Alright, so assault marines arnt troops but you can still use them quite effectively. they still have melta guns, right?

The tactical Marines can keep up in rhinos/razorbacks which I read as still being fast so at least they can keep up quite well. Really this sounds like a cool codex with lots of variations.

**niv-mizzet**

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Contact-Us

Sent in an email letting them know I won't be buying any GW product while the oversight about BA assault marines not being troops exists. Suggested that they could simply errata them to recover me as a customer.

If you are also one of the ones affected, or you just want to chime in because you might be affected by something similar (such as bikes not being troops for white scars, or necron immortals jumping out of troops section, etc,) then here's the only place I found to go to to send them some feedback.

**Las**

Right, they have some of the most unique marine units in the game. ASMs as troops was one of the least interesting things about the army and made no fluff sense. Their rules are also quite clearly assault focused.

**kb305**

doesnt matter i suppose since assaults suck compared to all the new stuff anyways. and everything is scoring now = no real reason to take them.

but it is a bit lame. i would prefer they be left as troops because i always thought an all jump pack blood angels army was a cool idea. on the other hand, trading in jump packs for a razorback was lame as hell and a stupid cash grab idea as usual.

**darkcloak**

I think it's great to see the troops requirement actually being filled by Scouts. It seemed like these guys were only being taken as sniper teams, and being given a disproportionate battle role where marines would CS and camp objectives while the snipers were out there wasting MCs. Now I think we should see Scouts taking on the objective camping, and doing less damage. Which is as it should be. The Tacs, if they get brought anymore should have a bigger role than scouts, melta bunkers and the like.

But seriously, why take Tacs to hold objectives when scouts do just as well for much cheaper. This just lets BA players spend more money on better units. Fill your fast slots with ASM, and then take your death company jumpers, and all the other elite JI. ASM as troops negates all other types of troops for that army, so why spend the points on the elite JI in that case when you can just get X more ASM?

Blood Angels use scouts too guys.

**PastelAvenger**

I'm bummed about the Assault Marines not being troops but it's not the end. We have 3 Fast Attack slots that aren't being used so hey why not throw a couple of assault squads in there?

Sang Guard coming in 10 man squads good, changes to Sang Priest good, cheaper units all round good so I don't really get what all the belly aching is about?

Before anyone starts I have 40 Assault Marines with no jump packs so it's gonna cost me a bit to adapt if I can't take transports for them.