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 agnosto wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:


For the same reason the rest of the GW range sells; the rules are perfectly servicable, and the greater availability means you're far more likely to get a game.

And as for whether or not they can write a Skirmish game, look at LotR, Necromunda and Mordhiem.

And how are sales for those ranges doing?.......yeah.

LotR doubled the size of the company in roughly 4 years. It has taken 40k 12-15 to achieve the same revenue. And WFB will never come close.

Wouldnt GWs margins WIDEN if it kept it as mass battle? If you take limited edition models combined with skirmish game style it seems that their margin would become more narrow? Especially considering 3rd party suppliers could easily encroach on their IPs a la Kromlek, CHS, etc like they did with for 40k. Not to mention the 3d printers (Shapeways) catching up with the limited edition releases to counts as. Proxies will abound without the Gestapo Workshop enforcing GW only models a tourneys. If they are a "collectable miniatures company" and not a game company, skirmish would be a kick in crotch for selling Minis. Right?

 Fayric wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
Yeah...well...skirmish has another problem, though: it doesn't work with some armies. Goblins and Skaven, for example, don't work in a skirmish game. Huge numbers of models is what makes those armies.

Skaven had a crew in Mordheim though. Im pretty sure some people made homebrew goblin gangs too.
The hard thing to add would more likely be heavy stuf like chaos warriors.

Edit: They would have to release som awesome ruins and open houses for scenery though. Huzza!

Skaven were part of the core rules in Mordheim, and had the largest possible starting gang. Very solid, and well-balanced gang.

At some point, there were official Town Cryer rules for Orcs in Mordheim.

Chaos Warriors in Mordheim? If you want a 3-person warband, maybe...

GW could re-release the Mordheim buildings at any time. But not gonna happen, because, GW is moving to all-plastic.

 CalgarsPimpHand wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:
I wonder...if GW releases a Skirmish game, why would anyone want to play it? GW rules are poorly done and if you want a proper Skirmish game, just go for WM/H.

For the same reason the rest of the GW range sells; the rules are perfectly servicable, and the greater availability means you're far more likely to get a game.

And as for whether or not they can write a Skirmish game, look at LotR, Necromunda and Mordhiem.

And how are sales for those ranges doing?.......yeah.

The question was, can GW write proper skirmish rules? And to answer, all three of those systems are excellent skirmish rulesets (if a bit dated in the cases of Necromunda and Mordheim). The sales, or lack thereof, of all those systems have more to do with GW's mismanagement than anything else. So save your cheap shots for someplace that makes sense.

You and I differ in opinion then, obviously, because if they mismanaged those other franchises, what makes you think this time will be different? You can make a rules-set that choirs of angels descend from heaven and sing gospels to but if you don't do anything to ensure people stay around to actually play it, the end result is the same as the non-support the other lines received. My comment was hardly a "cheap shot", rather it was extremely appropriate and indicative of how incapable GW has proven themselves to be when it comes to marketing their own products.

I still think this whole thing is a bit odd. Invalidating huge swathes of existing product will just alienate people and actually force them out from under the GW umbrella and into the loving arms of companies like Mantic (though I personally dislike them) who currently don't care what models you use their rules with.


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Sheck2 wrote:

 agnosto wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:


For the same reason the rest of the GW range sells; the rules are perfectly servicable, and the greater availability means you're far more likely to get a game.

And as for whether or not they can write a Skirmish game, look at LotR, Necromunda and Mordhiem.

And how are sales for those ranges doing?.......yeah.

LotR doubled the size of the company in roughly 4 years. It has taken 40k 12-15 to achieve the same revenue. And WFB will never come close.

The problem here is "what have you done for me lately?"; by all accounts LotR is only currently supported at all due to licensing requirements.

So I got to say. I wasn't believing fantasy turning into a skirmish game rumors AT ALL.

But now that their are pics of skavan warmachines on round bases, I have to admit maby their may be some truth to these.....

 doktor_g wrote:
Wouldnt GWs margins WIDEN if it kept it as mass battle?

Current thinking seems to suggest that the absolutely ridiculous amount of miniatures you need for a mass battle is what has all but bought the uptake of WF to a standstill. Plus GW now has to compete with Kings of War, a remarkably robust and versatile rule set that doesn't demand adherence to one manufacturers product.

 doktor_g wrote:
If you take limited edition models combined with skirmish game style it seems that their margin would become more narrow?

WF isn't selling anyway. It would be very difficult for their margin to shrink much more without abandoning WF altogether. A quick look at Mantic or the Perry brothers shows just how much plastic man-doll fun your money will get you if you are after quantity (and in the case of the Perrys, quality too).
Skirmish games on the other hand are definitely trendy at the moment. A starter pack for Infinity is about £25 for six figures. A single normal unit for X-Wing is about £10. People seem to be happy to pay extra for miniatures if they deem they are getting value.

 doktor_g wrote:
Especially considering 3rd party suppliers could easily encroach on their IPs a la Kromlek, CHS, etc like they did with for 40k. Not to mention the 3d printers (Shapeways) catching up with the limited edition releases to counts as. Proxies will abound without the Gestapo Workshop enforcing GW only models a tourneys. If they are a "collectable miniatures company" and not a game company, skirmish would be a kick in crotch for selling Minis. Right?

If the rumors on the front page of this thread are true, then there will be a lot more limited runs of miniatures. Aside from the core units of the game, limited runs would need less durable moulds, money saved. Regularly releasing new shiny things gets the veteran hobbyists buying in the same way that other truly collectable games do, money earned.
If GW plans to only sell limited batches of units then all of a sudden re-casters and proxies no longer matter - by the time re-casters have made copies, or independents have sculpted proxies, GW have already sold all their stock of that batch and have moved onto the next thing. Recognising they can't do much to protect their IP from their competitors, they make those competitors irrelevant by creating a moving target instead of their traditional fortress model.

(take all of what I've just said with good humour - I'm just playing a little Devil's advocate. For any of what I've just written to make sense GW would require a huge change in their business model and attitude)

GW has indeed moved to a premium, limited edition model. Gamers have clearly demonstrated a willingness to pay premium prices for a fancier hardcover and slipcover. or a special bonus mini. Same at Forgeworld. These things sell out quickly - just look at the End Times limited editions for Fantasy. And the huge expensive kits? Bought like they're going out of style.

While the Internet says they want lower prices, their wallet demonstrates a nearly unlimited thirst for exclusive, expensive items. As Knight Titans and End Times shows, this trend is accelerating. And it is unquestionably driven by veterans adding a centerpiece to their armies.

As long as customers support the super-premium model, GW will continue to push it.

Having just read the harry / autumn leaves quotes (i either missed it at the time or just didn't care to pay attention i guess), i came away with the following:

1 - fantasy makes up 8% of sales
2 - fantasy (and presumably 40k) are targeted at pre-teens
3 - prices will stay the same or increase

The game is going to change, this goes without saying. I'm not seeing anything that indicates the game is going to *improve*, however. And as far as sales go, i'm not sure how the 'problems' gw had with mordheim in that respect are going to be any different this time around. Instead of the 'inadequate' sales being thought to 'cannibalize' sales from fantasy, the inadequate sales will be fantasy.

Step 1 - collect underpants
Step 2 - ????
Step 3 - PROFIT!!!!

The proxies won't be irrelevant, but they'll be the only way to get the minis later. It's no longer stolen sales though if gw has moved on.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
GW has indeed moved to a premium, limited edition model. Gamers have clearly demonstrated a willingness to pay premium prices for a fancier hardcover and slipcover. or a special bonus mini. Same at Forgeworld. These things sell out quickly - just look at the End Times limited editions for Fantasy. And the huge expensive kits? Bought like they're going out of style.

While the Internet says they want lower prices, their wallet demonstrates a nearly unlimited thirst for exclusive, expensive items. As Knight Titans and End Times shows, this trend is accelerating. And it is unquestionably driven by veterans adding a centerpiece to their armies.

As long as customers support the super-premium model, GW will continue to push it.

I am as spendy as hobbyists and 40k enthusiasts get, I think, and I still can't fathom why anyone would spend $200 for a book... or at least, enough someones that it's sold out in 5 minutes >.<

Incidentally, my FLGS gets usually gets one or two of the fancy hardcovers, and they sit on the shelves for the whole year (or longer) without being sold. Eventually, on boxing day, it will get put up for half price (or some other great discount), and then I scoop it up This is how I got a couple of mine, hehehe. I was even able to sell my normal edition ones for full price, minus sales tax.

Herzlos wrote:
The proxies won't be irrelevant, but they'll be the only way to get the minis later. It's no longer stolen sales though if gw has moved on.

Unless the future lines compete with previous lines. There's only so many variations on a theme that can be played out:

first wave: elves with heavy armour and greatsword
....
....
twelfth wave: elves with heavy armour and greatsword and hand crossbow
.....
.....
twenty-second wave: elves with heavy armour and greatsword and longbow


At some point, the models are going to start overlapping. In this scenario the recasters and anyone selling hand crossbow or longbow bits stand to compete with the 'new' waves. Especially if the first wave elves are considered to look better.

Herzlos wrote:
The proxies won't be irrelevant, but they'll be the only way to get the minis later. It's no longer stolen sales though if gw has moved on.

We're saying the same thing. What I meant by irrelevant to GW you put better as "no longer stolen sales". This is after all the same GW that considered sales of Mordheim products to be sales stolen from WF products.
Rather bizarrely, this would be the first business move in a long time that would actually benefit the third party manufacturers! Imagine the irony of that. It's part of the reason I find it so difficult to believe - it requires a total volte face on GW's behalf.

 Torga_DW wrote:
Unless the future lines compete with previous lines. There's only so many variations on a theme that can be played out.

By that logic Magic the Gathering should have been history at least fifteen years ago.

 Torga_DW wrote:
At some point, the models are going to start overlapping. In this scenario the recasters and anyone selling hand crossbow or longbow bits stand to compete with the 'new' waves. Especially if the first wave elves are considered to look better.

Similarly, if all gamers were concerned themselves with when looking at newly released miniatures is whether or not a miniature is already available which fills the role, then very few miniatures need ever be released again. You'd be very hard pushed to have an idea you would like to see in miniature form and not be able to acquire a proxie already. Yet every year, scores of manufacturers release uncounted new sculpts for us to drool over and the miniatures / wargaming scene is rude health.

Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Really confused about the bases. If infantry goes into circular bases and then movement trays are created why not just keep the square bases as they are in the first place? I do not see why skirmish cannot be played with square bases.

As Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote above your post, and it's not something that I had thought of up until he mentioned it, but going to round bases is a cost cutting measure. They no longer have to support two different styles of base, and can stop making movement trays.

So really this is about cost cutting, and never about the good of the game.

But for stacking the minis into regiments they would probably use LOTR style of movement trays? Also why did they create a new bigger size for 40k, that goes against cost cutting right? Looks better on some 40k minis but again it surely looks like they are going into extremes to make people rebase all their armies, I wonder why?
I see what you guys are saying and to an extent does make sense, maybe its just me not understanding how saving money on bases you risk destroying decades of WFB armies. Visually Lotr basing system looks pants too.

Replying to 3:1 ration, its different to have 3 blocks of 50 gobbos than 3 blocks of 10, even if other armies have less. I also collect other systems armies and skirmish so the main reason I do WFB is the overall look of the army, being gobbos an extreme example of that. WFB main difference of most other systems is the sheer size of the armies, you lose that and there is not much more that makes WFB visually unique... maybe the superhumans will change that.

But you're not destroying decades of warhammer armies if you're GW. Look at this way. If you're GW, you don't care if somebody has been buying minis from the 1990s - you've got their money. What they do with the figures after that is not a factor. They could stick them up their noses for all GW care. Coca cola sell millions of tins every year, but would the coca cola bosses care if nobody drank the stuff, or poured it down the drain? Of Course not, as long as they get the money.

From a rational business sense, it's mad, because you want customers coming back. But that's not GW's model. GW don't care for veterans - all they do is moan , switch to other systems, and as I've said, they've got more than enough figures anyway.

GW's model is reliant on kids persuading mums to throw down 200 dollars/pounds/Euros etc in one go and it's reliant on die hards spending money every month. People moan about every new edition, but most of them still buy it anyway.

Of course, I could be wrong.

I know they do not care about vets and I dont think your wrong in that respect either , I'm surprised about the total reboot of one of their 3 big games. I dont think I have seen such a radical change at GW before. Lets face it armies take years to flesh out and the last thing you need is changes of this magnitude. Im not sure about the vets not spending money either ( how can a company have the database of such a thing?)


With that said…8% really? Wow and ouch!

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Also why did they create a new bigger size for 40k, that goes against cost cutting right?

Preparing for the variety of Fantasy miniatures (and they're likely phasing out the old ones). Plus there's also the Chapterhouse of it all. Everyone and their dog makes regular bases, so of course GW would pick a new size that no one uses to replace the old one.

I know you think that GW is clueless about how in fact that would be a boost in sales for those base manufacturers, they would adjust faster than GW and would actually supply full decorated base sets, unlike GW. I hope they are a bit less clueless than that though?

RiTides wrote:

Warhams-77 wrote:
Harry

Chaos is as GW as .... square bases for fantasy Also ... they look set to win!

This seems to imply Harry thinks square bases are staying (along with chaos).

I think this is right. GW intentionally makes their games incompatible (scale for LOTR, bases for fantasy). There's no way they'll decide to let daemon players use their models in both systems by standardizing bases. I think the round base thing is a complete hoax, and the rumor mongers parroting it are going to be caught in a lie.

I hope so! I really think circular bases are unecessary, they only add frustation and look very wrong in formations.

Lets see what happens.

Just a few thoughts that may have already been covered but I will throw them in the ring anyway. Firstly on the sales side of things as far as I can tell the end times stuff has sold out/sold well for the most part so surely this indicates there is a robust community that suffers from a lack of releases rather than no community at all. I mean up until recently there were 4 factions that hadn't been updated in a long, long time. As far the business side of things I can only think that this has been looked at 1 of 3 ways either A) this skirmish version/new version will please old customers and at the same time make it accessible to new customers B) it will be a far far superior game and will attract as many and more new players as it lost from annoying all the old customers or C) they are doing a Dreadfleet. I am totally torn on the subject personally as the system needs updating but at the same time whilst cutting the range may reduce costs it WILL lose them paying customers and variety which other company's are striving to acheive, it's a bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 Henry wrote:

 Torga_DW wrote:
Unless the future lines compete with previous lines. There's only so many variations on a theme that can be played out.

By that logic Magic the Gathering should have been history at least fifteen years ago.

Magic is a radically different game & design though. Magic can copyright their cards so that other companies can't reproduce them. Games workshop can't copyright miniatures of an elf with heavy armour and a great weapon.

 Henry wrote:

 Torga_DW wrote:
At some point, the models are going to start overlapping. In this scenario the recasters and anyone selling hand crossbow or longbow bits stand to compete with the 'new' waves. Especially if the first wave elves are considered to look better.

Similarly, if all gamers were concerned themselves with when looking at newly released miniatures is whether or not a miniature is already available which fills the role, then very few miniatures need ever be released again. You'd be very hard pushed to have an idea you would like to see in miniature form and not be able to acquire a proxie already. Yet every year, scores of manufacturers release uncounted new sculpts for us to drool over and the miniatures / wargaming scene is rude health.

Games workshop isn't scores of manufacturers. It's one manufacturer. The scores of manufacturers will still remain a threat to their sales. Yes, some people will buy the new models. Some people won't. I don't see how this plan will encourage more of the former over the latter.

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:

And as for whether or not they can write a Skirmish game, look at LotR, Necromunda and Mordhiem.

While I agree with this point (LotR has a superb ruleset!), keep in mind that those were written by old GW. Ever since GW's change, their rules have gotten increasingly lackluster and progressibly worse, recently culminating in 40k 7th.

7th is a way better ruleset than 6th, so I'd say they're improving.

Mymearan wrote:

 Sigvatr wrote:

 Paradigm wrote:

And as for whether or not they can write a Skirmish game, look at LotR, Necromunda and Mordhiem.

While I agree with this point (LotR has a superb ruleset!), keep in mind that those were written by old GW. Ever since GW's change, their rules have gotten increasingly lackluster and progressibly worse, recently culminating in 40k 7th.

7th is a way better ruleset than 6th

Hahahaha

Good answer, thanks.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
GW has indeed moved to a premium, limited edition model. Gamers have clearly demonstrated a willingness to pay premium prices for a fancier hardcover and slipcover. or a special bonus mini. Same at Forgeworld. These things sell out quickly - just look at the End Times limited editions for Fantasy. And the huge expensive kits? Bought like they're going out of style.

While the Internet says they want lower prices, their wallet demonstrates a nearly unlimited thirst for exclusive, expensive items. As Knight Titans and End Times shows, this trend is accelerating. And it is unquestionably driven by veterans adding a centerpiece to their armies.

As long as customers support the super-premium model, GW will continue to push it.

I don't think their year over year financials support your anecdotal observation being extrapolated so much. Is there a previously untapped market of both collectors and speculators who gobble up anything GW declares as limited regardless of price? Absolutely. Is GW selling less units overall? From their stockholder reports, yes. They're milking more and more the minority of their most productive cows but their figurative herd overall is waning so to speak. This, of course, doesn't exclude them continuing to marginalize themselves and their customers into an ever smaller niche.

The whole point of selling the rules in the box with the models is specifically to box out 3rd party competitors. That's a big part of why this could help with revenues

The other way is by lowering the barrier to entry, hooking more players and selling them a few limited release models on a regular schedule. As is, for the majority of players especially younger players, I imagine it's christmas and birthdays and not much in between.

I'm surprised so many people saying Fantasy is dead. It's still more popular than a lot of other games even if it's not as popular as it once was. Also... it's really only declined this past edition. I'm sure it's regional, but there was a strong thriving Fantasy community around here until 8th.

If this is truly a 40k scale skirmish replacement for WHFB and not just a side game then I think GW have lost their marbles. The appeal of WHFB has always been that it's been regimental combat, and it's always been a better game at it's core than 40k.

People don't play 40k because it's an awesome game, they play it because of the background and because it has a large established community. Warhammer skirmish will not have the same support, it's going to piss off basically everyone who already collects it so they're going to establish themselves as a new game from scratch? I honestly don't see it going well, I see it being the end of Fantasy altogether. GW haven't written a good set of rules for years I don't trust them to do it now and even if they do pull it off I don't think Fantasy Skirmish is going to do well enough to be a main game and with the dropping of The Hobbit GW will be relegated only 1 game being their source of income, they can rename themselves "Game Workshop".

Thrown in with GW's declining sales despite pushing a high rate of new releases in their flagship, 40k, this really is starting to feel like the end times not just for WHFB but for GW and it seems like they're intent on fething up their games before they go just in case anyone wanted to buy them out and reboot them will have to start from rubble.

 TheSilo wrote:
The whole point of selling the rules in the box with the models is specifically to box out 3rd party competitors. That's a big part of why this could help with revenues

Not in 2015. Internet etc.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I'm surprised so many people saying Fantasy is dead. It's still more popular than a lot of other games even if it's not as popular as it once was. Also... it's really only declined this past edition. I'm sure it's regional, but there was a strong thriving Fantasy community around here until 8th.

If this is truly a 40k scale skirmish replacement for WHFB and not just a side game then I think GW have lost their marbles. The appeal of WHFB has always been that it's been regimental combat, and it's always been a better game at it's core than 40k.

Given the cost/revenue of WFB I don't think they're much interested in what makes WFB appealing anymore.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
If this is truly a 40k scale skirmish replacement for WHFB and not just a side game then I think GW have lost their marbles. The appeal of WHFB has always been that it's been regimental combat, and it's always been a better game at it's core than 40k.

But I don't think the rumors are pointing to it being a dedicated skirmish game so much as a new edition that scales down to skirmish play better (probably by allowing all units to skirmish). That long batch of rumors mentioned that there are significant bonuses for ranked units (probably similar to now). That suggests larger battles.

So no, I don't think it's a "side game" nor a "skirmish replacement for WFB," but a new edition of WFB that's more "low points skirmish-friendly."

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
GW haven't written a good set of rules for years I don't trust them to do it now and even if they do pull it off I don't think Fantasy Skirmish is going to do well enough to be a main game and with the dropping of The Hobbit GW will be relegated only 1 game being their source of income, they can rename themselves "Game Workshop".

Games Workshop re-hired one of the fellas who worked on rules for Mantic a few months (a year?) ago so this might well be what he was hired (poached?) for. Though I'm yet to try them myself, everyone seems to sing the praises of Dread Ball and Kings of War which he was one of the leading writers for iirc.

I can't recall his name but he appeared on Beasts of War a lot as a Mantic spokes person.

 gorgon wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
If this is truly a 40k scale skirmish replacement for WHFB and not just a side game then I think GW have lost their marbles. The appeal of WHFB has always been that it's been regimental combat, and it's always been a better game at it's core than 40k.

But I don't think the rumors are pointing to it being a dedicated skirmish game so much as a new edition that scales down to skirmish play better (probably by allowing all units to skirmish). That long batch of rumors mentioned that there are significant bonuses for ranked units (probably similar to now). That suggests larger battles.

So no, I don't think it's a "side game" nor a "skirmish replacement for WFB," but a new edition of WFB that's more "low points skirmish-friendly."

It'll be interesting to see how it gets handled in white dwarf: I always hear how players are the ones responsible for high point games, and how the game can be played at low points. But when i used to read white dwarf (before the split), the battle reports were always high point games.

 TheSilo wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I'm surprised so many people saying Fantasy is dead. It's still more popular than a lot of other games even if it's not as popular as it once was. Also... it's really only declined this past edition. I'm sure it's regional, but there was a strong thriving Fantasy community around here until 8th.

If this is truly a 40k scale skirmish replacement for WHFB and not just a side game then I think GW have lost their marbles. The appeal of WHFB has always been that it's been regimental combat, and it's always been a better game at it's core than 40k.

Given the cost/revenue of WFB I don't think they're much interested in what makes WFB appealing anymore.

Do we even know what the cost/revenue of warhammer is and has been over the years?


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 gorgon wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
If this is truly a 40k scale skirmish replacement for WHFB and not just a side game then I think GW have lost their marbles. The appeal of WHFB has always been that it's been regimental combat, and it's always been a better game at it's core than 40k.

But I don't think the rumors are pointing to it being a dedicated skirmish game so much as a new edition that scales down to skirmish play better (probably by allowing all units to skirmish). That long batch of rumors mentioned that there are significant bonuses for ranked units (probably similar to now). That suggests larger battles.

So no, I don't think it's a "side game" nor a "skirmish replacement for WFB," but a new edition of WFB that's more "low points skirmish-friendly."

Maybe, maybe I'm being too pessimistic. But GW haven't done anything positive for me in years, the last thing of note they did was kill specialist games while I was half way through an Aeronautica force

Maybe they'll actually do something cool with WHFB that doesn't completely feth up existing players, but the rumours thus far have me more concerned than anything else. My WHFB armies have been sitting on the shelf since 7th, I'm eagerly awaiting what GW does to either put them back on the table or finish their journey to the bin

I'm wary of skirmish games in general because I don't find them overly entertaining.

 Torga_DW wrote:

2 - fantasy (and presumably 40k) are targeted at pre-teens

That's nonsense. They're clearly targeted at a dwindling number of vets. If there were targeted at pre-teens, GW wouldn't be releasing new, often limited edition, product every month and dredging up concepts from the 90s that only nostalgic grognards can appreciate.

What I meant to say was that GW isn't interested in keeping the WFB status quo (i.e. what's made it appealing in the past). They have much more interest in emulating the success of LotR than in perpetuating a product line that is as expensive and expansive as 40k but with much lower sales.

Back in 3rd edition of 40k, there was always the allure of a large scale battle, and it was fun once in a while. But like in books and movies and tabletop, those make for grand spectacles but they're rarely fun or balanced or very interesting after multiple tries. They've been pushing for bigger and badder releases and battles in 40k and fantasy, much to my chagrin. But while this seems to be attractive to 40k players, WFB seems to have topped out.

 Scrub wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
GW haven't written a good set of rules for years I don't trust them to do it now and even if they do pull it off I don't think Fantasy Skirmish is going to do well enough to be a main game and with the dropping of The Hobbit GW will be relegated only 1 game being their source of income, they can rename themselves "Game Workshop".

Games Workshop re-hired one of the fellas who worked on rules for Mantic a few months (a year?) ago so this might well be what he was hired (poached?) for. Though I'm yet to try them myself, everyone seems to sing the praises of Dread Ball and Kings of War which he was one of the leading writers for iirc.

I can't recall his name but he appeared on Beasts of War a lot as a Mantic spokes person.

James Hewitt... and he actually wasn't a Mantic rules/design guy. He was my editor on the Deadzone fluff (for most of its development), and was a Community Manager.