Continuing Rumors of WHFB 9th (Post-End Times) in Early Summer 2015

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Kanluwen**

I'm wondering if these formations are a good indicator of what kind of rules changes we might be seeing.

Cavalry getting +D3 Combat Resolution instead of the standard +1 for charging would be a Big Deal.

**Mr Morden**

Kanluwen wrote:
I'm wondering if these formations are a good indicator of what kind of rules changes we might be seeing.

Cavalry getting +D3 Combat Resolution instead of the standard +1 for charging would be a Big Deal.

As long as spearmen and similar get ASF against cavalry

**Kanluwen**

Mr Morden wrote:
Kanluwen wrote:
I'm wondering if these formations are a good indicator of what kind of rules changes we might be seeing.

Cavalry getting +D3 Combat Resolution instead of the standard +1 for charging would be a Big Deal.

As long as spearmen and similar get ASF against cavalry

To be fair, infantry already have a big advantage.

Spears get to fight in an additional rank as well, soo...

**His Master's Voice**

Kanluwen wrote:
Cavalry getting +D3 Combat Resolution instead of the standard +1 for charging would be a Big Deal.

I sure hope not. We don't need any more randomness in this game.

**Fango**

TheAuldGrump wrote:
As for the Three In One and Two In One Kits... I think that they pretty much universally look like dung, at least in regards to the war machines and big monsters. Some of the infantry and cavalry look okay - but not at those prices.

I think the Hell Pitt Abomination is quite good, it isn't technically a 2 in 1 kit, but there are different builds in the kit as far as arms/weapons. The Wood Elf Tree guy is pretty nice as well...but really this is all based on personal preference on aesthetics, etc..Beauty is in the eye of the Beholder and all that...

**Oloh**

WhispererofTruth wrote:
Araloth
Cauldron of Blood/Bloodwrack Shrine
Eternal Guard/Wildwood Rangers
Sisters of the Thorn/Wildriders of Kurnous
Witch Elves of Khaine/Sisters of Slaughter
Treeman
Savage Orcs
Night Goblins
Night Goblin Fanatics
Stonehorn/Thundertusk
Mournfang Cavalry
Thanquol and Boneripper
Vermin Lord
Warlord
Grey Seer
Screaming Bell/Plague Furnace
Stormvermin
Stormfiends
Doomwheel
Hellpit Abomination
Nagash
Coven Throne/Mortis Engine
Terrorgheist/Zombie Dragon
Mortarchs
Morghasts
Glottkin
Maggoth Lords
Gutrot Spume
Blightkings
Gorereapers
Wrathmongers
Chaos Spawn
Chaos Warshrine
Chaos Daemons
Ghorgon/Cygor
Grimm Burlockson
Josef Bugman
Runesmith
Ironbreakers/Irondrakes
Gyrocopter

No Spirit Hosts? End times model.

**BorderCountess**

Oloh wrote:
WhispererofTruth wrote:
Araloth
Cauldron of Blood/Bloodwrack Shrine
Eternal Guard/Wildwood Rangers
Sisters of the Thorn/Wildriders of Kurnous
Witch Elves of Khaine/Sisters of Slaughter
Treeman
Savage Orcs
Night Goblins
Night Goblin Fanatics
Stonehorn/Thundertusk
Mournfang Cavalry
Thanquol and Boneripper
Vermin Lord
Warlord
Grey Seer
Screaming Bell/Plague Furnace
Stormvermin
Stormfiends
Doomwheel
Hellpit Abomination
Nagash
Coven Throne/Mortis Engine
Terrorgheist/Zombie Dragon
Mortarchs
Morghasts
Glottkin
Maggoth Lords
Gutrot Spume
Blightkings
Gorereapers
Wrathmongers
Chaos Spawn
Chaos Warshrine
Chaos Daemons
Ghorgon/Cygor
Grimm Burlockson
Josef Bugman
Runesmith
Ironbreakers/Irondrakes
Gyrocopter

No Spirit Hosts? End times model.

I think just that one bolded line can toss this whole list as anything worth considering. Cuz, you know, getting names wrong doesn't lend credibility given how closely timed things were.

**Alpharius**

Still no real news or rumors in here?

We're getting closer...

**BorderCountess**

Oh, just do it already.

**WhispererofTruth**

Oloh wrote:
WhispererofTruth wrote:
Araloth
Cauldron of Blood/Bloodwrack Shrine
Eternal Guard/Wildwood Rangers
Sisters of the Thorn/Wildriders of Kurnous
Witch Elves of Khaine/Sisters of Slaughter
Treeman
Savage Orcs
Night Goblins
Night Goblin Fanatics
Stonehorn/Thundertusk
Mournfang Cavalry
Thanquol and Boneripper
Vermin Lord
Warlord
Grey Seer
Screaming Bell/Plague Furnace
Stormvermin
Stormfiends
Doomwheel
Hellpit Abomination
Nagash
Coven Throne/Mortis Engine
Terrorgheist/Zombie Dragon
Mortarchs
Morghasts
Glottkin
Maggoth Lords
Gutrot Spume
Blightkings
Gorereapers
Wrathmongers
Chaos Spawn
Chaos Warshrine
Chaos Daemons
Ghorgon/Cygor
Grimm Burlockson
Josef Bugman
Runesmith
Ironbreakers/Irondrakes
Gyrocopter

No Spirit Hosts? End times model.

Most likely. I didn't get handed a big long list of stuff that was surviving. This was a list of stuff I put together based on things I heard was surviving hence why I thought somethings were missing.Which they most definatley were. I heard the Vortex Beast kit will make it too just last week for instance. There's also some units I expect to survive but just not in the same form as before such as Squigs and Chosen for example.

@Mannfred: I can respect that line of thinking, but when you here a vague outline of something a few months before, making sure you got the name right takes the backseat over finding out more about what it is. :p

**Crazyterran**

Apparently the Empire doesn't make it at all! Or Brettonia!

**Charles Rampant**

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/02/wfb-9th-rules-bases-faction-changes.html

Some updated rumours over on Bell of Lost souls. Characters unable to join units? Warmachines on round bases and attached to units? Elite units have a size of 2-5? What do you think?

**Shandara**

I think salt.

**Dropbear Victim**

Just hypothetically speaking - if fantasy is completely overhauled and does die off, do you think GW should rename itself Game Workshop? I say this as a joke, yet I could see GW going down to a single game system in the future.

**Mr Morden**

Crazyterran wrote:
Apparently the Empire doesn't make it at all! Or Brettonia!

Pretty much all gone as of the most recent ET book, I think one city is still standing -the rest are gone? Middenheim, Altdorf, Nuln and Talebheim def gone.

**TheAuldGrump**

Charles Rampant wrote:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/02/wfb-9th-rules-bases-faction-changes.html

Some updated rumours over on Bell of Lost souls. Characters unable to join units? Warmachines on round bases and attached to units? Elite units have a size of 2-5? What do you think?

I'm thinking that I really like Kings of War.

This sounds very familiar

In Kings of War Warmachines being 'Attached' to units means that you need to get a solid unit to get a Warmachine, not that the Rangers need to be lugging a cannon around with them if you want the cannon. If so, then this isn't as bad as it sounds.

Unfortunately, Characters not joining units is my least favorite part of the Kings of War rules - especially since they sold one character with a 'bodyguard' unit that it couldn't use....

Elites being units of 2-5... I'm glad that I like Kings of War....

The Auld Grump

**Baragash**

TheAuldGrump wrote:
Unfortunately, Characters not joining units is my least favorite part of the Kings of War rules - especially since they sold one character with a 'bodyguard' unit that it couldn't use....The Auld Grump

Whilst nothing will happen for KoW2, I have made a proposal to Ronnie to be explored for the campaign/siege supplement which won't be exactly what you want, but may make it not so bad

**Yodhrin**

I suppose at this point the best fans of the existing Fantasy background can hope for is that GW/BL get C.L. Werner to write more "historical" novels, set in the pre-End Times realms.

**Chopxsticks**

I dont see how characters not joining units is an issue???

*correct me if I'm wrong, I have not gotten to play in a year*
Cant characters take a look out sir if they are within a set distance from the unit already? Also most characters have a bubble, could they not just add more of that.

I for one like this. Characters rarely rank up as it is, and they tend to be the model I spend real time painting. So its nice if its on the outside.

Does Warmachine do something like this already? where the character confirms a bonus to the army for just being there? I thought that was the cool dynamic of Warmachine, you could field the same units, but they would do something different by just changing the hero choice?

**Vermis**

TheAuldGrump wrote:
Unfortunately, Characters not joining units is my least favorite part of the Kings of War rules

Yup. They can't lead units, can't command regiments, just run around playing the same role as a lone rat ogre or chaos spawn...

Still much better than the biggest competition overall, tho.

Baragash wrote:
Whilst nothing will happen for KoW2...

Oh poo. Looks like my bookshelf won't be weighed down much more in the near future, then.

**Pacific**

Dropbear Victim wrote:
Just hypothetically speaking - if fantasy is completely overhauled and does die off, do you think GW should rename itself Game Workshop? I say this as a joke, yet I could see GW going down to a single game system in the future.

There was some discussion of this a while ago, actually 'Game Consume' would be a better name, as the 'workshop' part of it hasn't been relevant for quite some years also.

**jojo_monkey_boy**

I remain hopeful that this new edition will make the game more accessible. I don't like the current paradigm of having to spell an inordinate amount of money just to get an army to a playable stage. If they're addressing that, I consider it a step forward.

I understand people are upset about their armies potentially being turfed. It would be disappointing to be a Bretonnian player reading these rumours. However, there is logic to what is happening, in relation to the way GW has been responding to IP concerns. Again, it sucks if you've invested in given armies, but I guess that's life?

I've all but put my WFB hobby on hold for the time being. I don't see the sense in painting models that may not be usable in a few months. I'm still crossing my fingers though...

**Fayric**

Pacific wrote:
Dropbear Victim wrote:
Just hypothetically speaking - if fantasy is completely overhauled and does die off, do you think GW should rename itself Game Workshop? I say this as a joke, yet I could see GW going down to a single game system in the future.

There was some discussion of this a while ago, actually 'Game Consume' would be a better name, as the 'workshop' part of it hasn't been relevant for quite some years also.

How about plain Game Shop. Im sure the people making the decisions just give a discrete *cough* in the middle of the company name these days

**Chopxsticks**

jojo_monkey_boy wrote:
I remain hopeful that this new edition will make the game more accessible. I don't like the current paradigm of having to spell an inordinate amount of money just to get an army to a playable stage. If they're addressing that, I consider it a step forward.

I understand people are upset about their armies potentially being turfed. It would be disappointing to be a Bretonnian player reading these rumours. However, there is logic to what is happening, in relation to the way GW has been responding to IP concerns. Again, it sucks if you've invested in given armies, but I guess that's life?

I've all but put my WFB hobby on hold for the time being. I don't see the sense in painting models that may not be usable in a few months. I'm still crossing my fingers though...

I do as well, I still think games can be played in larger scale. People find a way. Allowing for smaller games though is a great entry into the game. I know I will be able to talk some friends into finally playing if they can get in with 10-20 models and not 110 day one.

Im also in the same boat, so many figure in limbo cuss im not sure if they are going to round bases.

But you know what, I dont play any games now, so the future can only get more promising for me...

**Rainbow Dash**

Dropbear Victim wrote:
Just hypothetically speaking - if fantasy is completely overhauled and does die off, do you think GW should rename itself Game Workshop? I say this as a joke, yet I could see GW going down to a single game system in the future.

Yeah I doubt Fantasy will survive after what (late 7th) and 8th did to it...
9th seems to sound just awful...
I grew to like 8th but, when the very real worry of your army being unusable looming over you... and GW's done that to me before, I have little hope.

**Vermis**

Chopxsticks wrote:

I do as well, I still think games can be played in larger scale. People find a way.

I would be extraordinarily surprised, or demoralised, if people with existing editions of the Warhammer rulebook (or better suited mass battle rulesets) couldn't find a way.

**Chopxsticks**

If anything I would like to either see GW (highly doubt) or a group of enthusiasts go back through and combine profiles of all models to reflect the changes made such as the End time units that released with combined profiles. I mean they have to right??? How can You have a models like the maggoth Lords with combined stat block, yet then have Mournfang with 2 seperate stat blocks..

**Breotan**

So, I saw this on FB this evening.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/02/wfb-9th-rules-bases-faction-changes.html

BoLS wrote:WFB 9th: Rules, Bases & Faction Changes

OK, this one takes some explaining:

This is a conversation between Harry, and Ikitlagriffe over on Warseer. Ikitlagriffe initially wrote up a list of information on WFB 9th which was unclear. Harry then condensed the initial information (the black standard text), and invited the original poster to verify the re-written information and add clarifications. Ikitlagriffe did so (THE RED ALL CAPS TEXT).

Then Harry offered some extra information and insight at the bottom.

Here goes:

Are these from your own sources YES, FROM DIFFERENT SOURCES.
or simply your interpretation of what you have collected from the interwebz? SERIOUSLY ?… NO.
I am pretty sure you speak English very much better than I speak any other language NOT SURE ! SORRY FOR THAT.
9th edition will be 90% the same as 8th edition YES, ABOUT RULES, SAME OPINION FROM 2 DIFFERENT SOURCES.
The new ‘Factions’ …
…will look so different from the existing armies they might as well be new armies YES
These new armies will be made from new units/characters MAJORITY YES
The new units will have a very different aesthetic from existing miniatures. 200% YES
The new units can be used by one or more of the existing armies. YES
OR can just be used as units for generic ‘Forces of order’ Or forces of destruction’ armies. NO
I can keep my “OLD COLLECTION” YES
… but don’t expect any new miniatures for a while? I CAN’T SAY THAT FROM WHAT I KNOW BUT LIKELY DEDUCTION
9th Edition will get a boxed set. I HEARD ABOUT A BOX OF BOOKS
In the box will be a rule book? YES
a skirmish Rule book YES / and a Warhammer armies book NOT EXACTLY : but a listing of playable units or pre-constructed groups YES.
The warhammer armies book will have a limited army list for each faction. YES, but I HAD NO INFORMATION ABOUT “FACTIONS”(and this number of “6” ??), so I would say “for each army”.
There is a points system. YES
But it is not compulsory (So you can pick ‘X’ number of characters/units from the selection) SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
Skirmish is not intended to be the main way to play Warhammer … but an alternative. YES
This will be a simple starter game without a lot of complex special rules. An introductory game. YES
Some fantasy miniatures will be supplied on round bases due to rules changes YES
… but not all…. just skirmishing units DON’T KNOW and units attached to ranked units? YES
…and big Warmachines? ATTACHED TO RANKED UNITS YES
Characters will be on round bases. (Or oval bases for cavalry) YES
… and so characters can no longer join ranked up units. PERSONAL DEDUCTION, BUT YES
I do not need to re-base my existing characters to use them YES – two times confirmed
Round bases are nothing to do with the new skirmish game YES.
You don’t know what is going on with round bases EXPLAINED BY MINOR CHANGES OF RULES, FROM WHAT I KNOW.
Bretonnians will not get a new army book and will not get any new units STRICTLY SPEAKING YES
There will be some units which are a bit like Bretonnians in a new ‘Forces of order’ book YES
Loads of stuff coming for Skaven but you don’t know when. YES
New skaven stuff will not look like the existing Skaven stuff but an evolution. YES
Beastmen … future is uncertain but you guess they will find a place in Chaos. YES, I GUESS.
Lots of new stuff to come for Fantasy. YES
Most stuff will be new units monsters or characters. YES
Elite units will be smaller 2-5 minis. YES
Look of armies will change. OH YES !
Smaller armies with less miniatures and more big stuff. LOGICALLY
No information about new rules. NO DETAILS YES, BUT IT SEEMS TO BE MINOR CHANGES.

Then Harry offers up his response:

“Firstly thanks for taking the time to do that …it is much appreciated … and not just by me I am sure.

It confirms a lot of stuff we have already heard ….

Whilst it would be great if 9th was 90% the same as 8th … my worry has always been about the miniatures.
I guess I don’t much like the new aesthetics what I always liked about Wahammer was the whole low tech, low fantasy, up to your knees in mud, feel it had. So I weep for the background … but the real question for me remains will the new factions get 90% of the attention in terms of the releases. I have heard some armies will not get anything new …. Will any of the existing armies ever get anything else that matches the current aesthetcs in the future … beyond the stuff that is already done and awaiting release window.”

Let me try to put a bow on this pile of info. The 9th rules are listed as being 90% the same as 8th, and will now include a skirmish game. So that means that it is in the area of factions and army construction that the big changes lie. A smaller number of factions will be there (“6″ keeps being posted), and only they will get new minatures development going forward. The new miniatures are described as very different in style than traditional existing WFB. I would assume that you can look at the newer End Times releases to get the visual vibe they are going for. Round bases are in for a subset of miniatures (characters, and warmachines are described). If you have an old army you can still play it, but it may effectively become an “orphan” in the new system, workable – but with little to no forward support in the new game. Finally I wouldn’t hold out much hope for new hardcover army books for either of Bretonnia or Beastmen.

Well, just call me Bad Luck Brian. :(

Spoiler:

**streamdragon**

So my beastmen are basically gone and my new skaven will look nothing like my current skaven.

unless they manage to really blow my mind with the new rules, looks like I can file GW in the same "cut ties" category as Blizzard.

**Breotan**

streamdragon wrote:
...and my new skaven will look nothing like my current skaven.

Hopefully this applies more to the old clanrat/gutter runner/plague monk models and less to the new IoB Clanrats/Stormvermin/Rat Ogres.