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Space marine dreads going up to 4 attacks while Furioso's languish at 2 (I put frag cannons on mine) is really a downer. SM scouts going up to BS 4 hurts to. I can live without the bonus' for having 3 vehicles in a formation. I think the vanilla Land Speeder also dropped 5 points compared to BA.

On the positive end BA still have fast vehicles and the Flesh Tearer formations can get me 6 FA slots.

Those dread attacks are just killing me though. I would be static if Furioso's and Librarian Dreads went up to 4 base attacks. That would be big.

My BA were never built around assault, but rather shooting. I'll hold my cards close to the vest for now and hope an errata comes out that fixes Furioso attacks, Scout BS and the Speeder cost. We'll see.

Martel732 wrote:

niv-mizzet wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Does the Sanguinary Priest work for non-BA?

Narthecium doesn't care if you're a BA or not, only the +1 WS does.
And by raw currently, BA IC's don't negate chapter tactics of a sm unit because BA don't have the chapter tactics ability.

I'm gonna try to blindside some people at an ITC event next week with some "blood Templars," or "iron blood hands," depending on a couple rulings. I'm keeping my list under wraps but I'll be using a small BA CAD to "technically" still be a BA player. (Really silly flaw in their faction system, but oh well, dem's the rules.)

But what do BA IC's do? Practically nothing compared to ICs of other armies. I guess they hand out FNP. So the BA are reduced to taxis for the Skitaari and FNP monkeys. I'll pass.

Oh not much. The list would be stronger if I wanted to be pure marines, but I feel like its strong enough to give me the leeway needed to make the "subpar" option of having a small BA detachment so that I'm a BA player instead. Also veritas vitae for double strategic could help me out a bit.

I know it isn't official, but I just posted some errata for Blood Angels in Proposed Rules. Going to work on making some formations and altering other formations to work with them.

 th3maninblak wrote:
So I'm coming up on a promotion and a pretty substantial pay raise in the next month, and to celebrate I think I'm gonna build the Archangels Sanguine Wing formation. Trying to work it into a list though. Here's the first draft.

Baal Strike Force

HQ
-Sanguinary Priest
Warlord
Jump pack
Bolt pistol
Valour's Edge

-Sanguinary Priest
Angel's Wing
Bolt pistol
Power Sword

Elites
-5x Death Company
Jump packs
Power fist

-5x Death Company
Jump packs
Power fist

-5x Death Company
Jump packs
Power fist

Troops
-5x Scouts
CCWs
Combi melta

-5x Scouts
CCWs
Combi melta

Fast Attack
-5x Bikers
2x Grav
Combi grav

Archangels Sanguine Wing Formation

-10x Vanguard Veterans
Sgt with storm shield and lightning claw
3x storm shield and lightning claw
4x power sword
2x power axe
Jump packs

-10x Vanguard veterans
Sgt with storm shield and lightning claw
3x storm shield and lightning claw
4x power sword
2x power axe

-10x Sternguard veterans
5x combi melta
5x combi grav

-Stormraven
Hurricane bolters
Assault cannon
Multi melta

Comes to like 1847. Sanguinary priests deep strike in with the vanguard vets.

This might just be something I'd overlooked in regards to formations, but if you're using the BSF rules, shouldn't you only have access to 4 Elite FOC slots? The formations additions put you at 6. When you add a formation, does it ignore the original armies FOC?

They are two separate formations, as such you would be required to fill out the "mandatories" on both.

Its one of the things that makes formations great. The elites slot is super crowded in our book as is, but this formation combines extra elites slots with making vanguard vets competitive with the likes of Death Company and Sanguinary Guard. 22 points for a model with a jump pack and a power weapon? Yes please!

Also I am slowly becoming more and more convinced that Sanguinary Guard are one of the most efficient assault units in the game when combined with a priest. In a game vs chaos today i had dante, a priest and 5 SG kill no less than 1200 points worth of stuff.

I don't think Sang Guard rank that highly in the (admittedly small) list of marine assault units

Thunderwolf Cav are 45pts cheaper base, and with signifcant higher potential than Sang Guard if you spend points on them

Dreadknight with teleporter and hammer is the same cost as a squad of Sang Guard, you can spend more to get useful guns (H.Incinerator, H.Psycannon).

I'm sure I've missed a few out, but I'd rather have those over Sang Guard. TWC and NDK don't require you to use a HQ slot to make them survivable either.

Hi,I've returned to BA ,again for the third time's in 12 years, recently and I read all the discussion thru.
I personally dislike the drop pod army style and I prefer a more fluffy kind of army where Dante and sanguinary guards are an exception, not a rule.
I also love the new models and I pick my opponents, whenever I am in a tournament you can accept a defeat against unbalanced players list. Their loss not mine.
This said I'm building up an army where I sacrifice the jp in order to go a bit more mech style,still keeping the fast mobility so rappresentative of BA. Do you guys think this list would be still competive?

+++ Ba final (1850pts) +++

++ Blood Angels: Codex (2014) (Combined Arms Detachment) ++

+ (No Category) +

Relics and Detachment-rules
····Codex: Blood Angels [Baal Strike Force]

+ HQ +

Chaplain [Bolt Pistol, Crozius Arcanum]

Librarian (Terminator) [Psyker (ML2), Warlord]

+ Elites +

Death Company Dreadnought [Blood Talons, Magna-grapple, Meltagun and storm bolter]

Death Company Squad [7x Bolt Pistol, Bolter, 6x Chainsword, 10x Death Company Marine, Hand Flamer, Infernus Pistol, Power Fist, 2x Power Weapon, Thunder Hammer]

Terminator Assault Squad [Company Standard (replaces a Claw or Shield), 2x Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield, Thunder Hammer and Storm Shield, 2x Twin Lightning Claws]

+ Troops +

Tactical Squad [Heavy flamer, 4x Tactical Marine]
····Razorback [Twin Linked Assault Cannon]
····Tactical Sergeant [Boltgun, Chainsword]

Tactical Squad [Lascannon, 4x Tactical Marine]
····Razorback [Twin Linked Assault Cannon]
····Tactical Sergeant [Boltgun, Chainsword]

+ Fast Attack +

Assault Squad [4x Assault Marines, 2x Meltagun, Rhino]
····Assault Sergeant [Bolt Pistol, Chainsword, Melta Bombs]

+ Heavy Support +

Stormraven Gunship [Twin Linked Lascannon, Twin-linked Multi-melta]

Stormraven Gunship [Twin Linked Assault Cannon, Twin-linked Multi-melta]

Vindicator [Overcharged engines]

I might change the vindicator for a predator multilascannon and add a combimelta losing a powerweapon in the DC,but I'm not experienced enough to take this decision.
Anyway,everything is magnetized so far ,so
DC+chaplain and Libby+termi goes in the SR btw

Bartali wrote:
I don't think Sang Guard rank that highly in the (admittedly small) list of marine assault units

Thunderwolf Cav are 45pts cheaper base, and with signifcant higher potential than Sang Guard if you spend points on them

Dreadknight with teleporter and hammer is the same cost as a squad of Sang Guard, you can spend more to get useful guns (H.Incinerator, H.Psycannon).

I'm sure I've missed a few out, but I'd rather have those over Sang Guard. TWC and NDK don't require you to use a HQ slot to make them survivable either.

Its not that big of a deal when that HQ slot only costs 75 points for feel no pain and +1ws. But i will agree that sanguinary guard are not that impressive on their own. They just get exponentially more powerful with every character you attach.

 th3maninblak wrote:

Bartali wrote:
I don't think Sang Guard rank that highly in the (admittedly small) list of marine assault units

Thunderwolf Cav are 45pts cheaper base, and with signifcant higher potential than Sang Guard if you spend points on them

Dreadknight with teleporter and hammer is the same cost as a squad of Sang Guard, you can spend more to get useful guns (H.Incinerator, H.Psycannon).

I'm sure I've missed a few out, but I'd rather have those over Sang Guard. TWC and NDK don't require you to use a HQ slot to make them survivable either.

Its not that big of a deal when that HQ slot only costs 75 points for feel no pain and +1ws. But i will agree that sanguinary guard are not that impressive on their own. They just get exponentially more powerful with every character you attach.

Not really. FNP is 33% less casualties against AP 2 S7 or less, but the increase against AP 3+ S7 or less only around a 7% increase in durability. Dante gives you S7 choppy, but SG already have access to AP 2.

Ap2 at I1, dante brings it at initiative 7 on the charge.

Man the new SM codex has left a bitter taste in my mouth...it's been approx 6 months since are update and already we're looking like the bottom of the pile of SM books.

So much stuff that they could've easily piloted in our book :
Dread squads (with extra attacks no less)
Tank squads
Cheaper termies
Better scout stats
Better tech marines
Grav devs

Really feel like we're the red-headed (red helmeted?) step child , I don't plan on running 'red marines', as I love the Blood Angels but dammit it's annoying...

D

I feel like dread and tank squads are a gimmick and not terribly useful. The dreads having extra attacks sucks, as does the higher skill on scouts. But our vehicles are fast, and when was the last time we ever used tactical terminators? Or even wanted to for that matter.

The tank formations are actually pretty good. Especially the nifty rules you get for having 3 in a unit

 th3maninblak wrote:
I feel like dread and tank squads are a gimmick and not terribly useful. The dreads having extra attacks sucks, as does the higher skill on scouts. But our vehicles are fast, and when was the last time we ever used tactical terminators? Or even wanted to for that matter.

I actually run Tac Termies fairly regularly as I have a fair few and I'm pretty pleased with the paint job on them. But yes, they suck 90% of the time. Their highlight was actually probably just this evening when ai took a unit with 4 chainfists to deal with a Necron super heavy (Campaign narrative game rather than a pick up) and they managed to kill it. Which was cool...but yeah.

The extra rules for squads of 3 on the tanks are really neat, besides I'd be more inclined to run multiple tanks if they didn't take up multiple slots as you often feel like you need the redundancy just to get by...

Like I say, I'm gonna stick to the BA book, but I do feel like we've got the short end of the stick...


D

We did get the raw end of the deal, but I don't think the book sucks by any stretch of the imagination. Wolves got hit too, and their book has basically been relegated to "super IC thunderwolf star" and really nothing else. We can still compete, but our options for doing so became a bit more limited.

When not running a squadron, our vehicles are still strictly better than their marine counterparts. And though assault is in a bad spot, we can still create viable assault armies using our flying honor guard and liberal use of death company.

Finally, with the way chapter tactics interact with other books now, we can create quite the sanguinary guard+iron hands death star.

 raiden wrote:
Ap2 at I1, dante brings it at initiative 7 on the charge.

It's still kinda meh.

So with Dark angels on the horizon now I cant help but be excited about fielding my angels of death army again without it being total rubbish.
my initial thought was the psychic powers looks fun. assuming you can deliver and use both.

DA. Seed of Fear - WC1 Maledication affecting all enemy units within 9", they take Morale, Pinning, and Fear on 3d6

BA. Fear of the Darkness: WC1 Malediction. Target unit at 12" takes a Morale test with -2LD

Almost guaranteed fail surly ? thinking in general the new DA powers actually work well for BA as a mainly combat based army.

Yeah, me and a friend of mine (who plays DA) were discussing that yesterday. The 2 rage powers work well together, too. Giving Black Knights 3a base plus rage and extra ccw seems silly.

Also, i managed to win a small and fairly friendly tournament on saturday with my BA. Beat 2 eldar players and had them both crying about how OP death co and Mephiston were by the end of the day. I found it pretty hilarious.

 th3maninblak wrote:
Yeah, me and a friend of mine (who plays DA) were discussing that yesterday. The 2 rage powers work well together, too. Giving Black Knights 3a base plus rage and extra ccw seems silly.

Also, i managed to win a small and fairly friendly tournament on saturday with my BA. Beat 2 eldar players and had them both crying about how OP death co and Mephiston were by the end of the day. I found it pretty hilarious.

Wat

I know, right?

The second eldar player asked to see Mephiston's entry in the rule book because he didn't believe he was t5. His response to reading what mephy does was something along the lines of "dude, that's so broken."

.......

You play eldar.

 th3maninblak wrote:
I know, right?

The second eldar player asked to see Mephiston's entry in the rule book because he didn't believe he was t5. His response to reading what mephy does was something along the lines of "dude, that's so broken."

.......

You play eldar.

That makes me grin maybe I should give him a try again, if an eldar player labels him OP. Do you run him with your DC on foot with a droppod?

 th3maninblak wrote:


Also, i managed to win a small and fairly friendly tournament on saturday with my BA. Beat 2 eldar players and had them both crying about how OP death co and Mephiston were by the end of the day. I found it pretty hilarious.

Congratulations, what were the army list like?

Nothing too crazy. The marine list i beat was probably the best of the day, with some min sized troops and 3x3 grav centurions in pods, iron hands of course. The second eldar list had 2 units of bikes and 4 small dire avenger units in serpents, along with some other stuff. I cant really remember much else.

The last list was straight footdar craftworld warhost. Muegan ra, farseer, 2x5 dark reapers with BS5, 6 dragons with exarch, 3x10 guardians with bright lances, a D battery, 3 war walkers with missiles and a vyper. Guy just wanted as many formation bonuses as possible.

Like i said, it was a friendly tournament.

 th3maninblak wrote:
Its one of the things that makes formations great. The elites slot is super crowded in our book as is, but this formation combines extra elites slots with making vanguard vets competitive with the likes of Death Company and Sanguinary Guard. 22 points for a model with a jump pack and a power weapon? Yes please!

Also I am slowly becoming more and more convinced that Sanguinary Guard are one of the most efficient assault units in the game when combined with a priest. In a game vs chaos today i had dante, a priest and 5 SG kill no less than 1200 points worth of stuff.

Don't underestimate 2+ armor with power weapons and power axes.

 NightWrench wrote:

 th3maninblak wrote:
Its one of the things that makes formations great. The elites slot is super crowded in our book as is, but this formation combines extra elites slots with making vanguard vets competitive with the likes of Death Company and Sanguinary Guard. 22 points for a model with a jump pack and a power weapon? Yes please!

Also I am slowly becoming more and more convinced that Sanguinary Guard are one of the most efficient assault units in the game when combined with a priest. In a game vs chaos today i had dante, a priest and 5 SG kill no less than 1200 points worth of stuff.

Don't underestimate 2+ armor with power weapons and power axes.

Don't overestimate it with all the AP 2 weaponry, though.

Is there any place in a competitive BA army for the two troops choices in the Shield of Baal: Deathstorm campaign book?

Raphen's Death Company and Cassor the Damned just seem too expensive to me.

Not really, scouts will be the only troop option outside of drop pod lists.

I commonly spend between 110 and 130 points on troops. The general consensus is that BA wants to spend as little on troops as possible, and load up on things like grav bikes, fast preds, tri melta ASM squads, death co and sang guard.

I've found that Cassor is a reasonable Troop choice when taken in a quite vehicle heavy army. The fact he's a character adds alot to his survivability as he can challenge out Power fist/meltabomb srg's and the like. Now if he had the attacks bonus of SM dreads then.....