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 timetowaste85 wrote:

 Slarg232 wrote:
Bleh, I hope they do Miles. Had about enough of Peter Parker myself....

As we've already explained, wouldn't happen because of character recognition. So don't get your hopes up on the matter.

All of your explanations sounded more like dealing with latent racism, to be honest.

"We can't put a black guy in a white guys role" is not an argument I ever plan on taking seriously. Especially not when there is an actual character whom they could base it around.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Pretty sure Lex goes squish in a fist fight with Clark.

I am pretty sure that prevents him no less from being Superman's nemesis, and featured in tons of movie involving Superman.
Which means a movie with a super-powered Spiderman fighting a non-powered Mysterio could still make a good movie.
What I am not sure though, is whether you you were that obtuse intentionally or not. In both case that makes you look bad, though.

You mean that was so godawfully corny it would probably pan across the board if it made in the modern day? You have to have a villain the hero is capable of entering a fistfight without one of them turning into mist. Plus using the Superman movies as example is a terrible idea given that most of them sucked and did miserable at the box office compared to the game Marvel plays.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 LordofHats wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The writers hit a reset button? In a comic book? But that never happens!!!

Why do you think I have a love/hate relationship with comics?

Call me a hater, but honestly, the writing quality of most comic books is at best, on par with mediocre fan fiction (its in bold so everyone knows I'm really dead fething serious). A huge part of it is the absolute unwillingness of writers in the industry to live with consequence. They'd rather just press a reset button, and either rehash terrible plots they've already written or produce brain dead new ones, than actually build a plot line where people have to live with their choices. And this is a huge irony in comic books, because I can't tell you how many times "you have to live with your choices" is brought up in comic books. A really fresh hypocrisy for a genre almost completely devoid of lasting consequence.

On top of that of course, One Last Day was just horrible. Peter Parker went completely out of character during the whole thing. "Responsibility? Pah. I don't need responsibility. I'll just go make a deal with the devil instead cause I can't live with responsibility!"

This so much. Part of the reason why I only really pay attention to Hellboy is because Mignola actually knows what the feth consistency and responsibility are as an artist. I can't stand how the main comics constantly change so fast you get whiplash from a change of writers, the retcons, or how characters Never. Fething. Develop. They don't change. They don't grow. They're static, permanently frozen in place by an industry to terrified and to incompetent to embrace standard writing practices.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
And how no one is the marvel universe could cure a gunshot.

If you are referring to Steve Rogers it was a magic bullet, or a "time bullet", if I recall correctly.

 Slarg232 wrote:
All of your explanations sounded more like dealing with latent racism, to be honest.

"We can't put a black guy in a white guys role" is not an argument I ever plan on taking seriously. Especially not when there is an actual character whom they could base it around.

It really doesn't. No one knows who Miles Morales is. Brand recognition is a real thing, not a weasel word for racism.

A lot of the MCU characters weren't all that well known outside of comic circles before they became household names.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Slarg232 wrote:
All of your explanations sounded more like dealing with latent racism, to be honest.

"We can't put a black guy in a white guys role" is not an argument I ever plan on taking seriously. Especially not when there is an actual character whom they could base it around.

It really doesn't. No one knows who Miles Morales is. Brand recognition is a real thing, not a weasel word for racism.

Does it matter that no one knows who he is? Not really. Nobody knew who Guardians of the Galaxy, Dr. Strange, or Black Panther are, and yet what is happening with their movies?

GotG was one of the biggest superhero hits, Dr. Strange is played by one of the big current actors (Whom I believe we have yet to see his masterpiece yet), and Black Panther is actually being looked forward to by a fair amount of people.


Do you know who has brand recognition? Brands that have been given a chance to be recognized. Give Miles his time to shine.

Wasn't Iron Man also something of a third ring hero until the movies catapulted him into being one of the most recognized and popular Marvel heroes?

I'm also pretty sure at this point Samuel. L Jackson's Machivellian Nick Fury is more widely known and recognized by pretty much everyone than the original John McLane flavored Fury (and really, there are die hard comic book nerds who didn't know who Nick Fury was prior to SLJ being cast in the films).

 Slarg232 wrote:
Does it matter that no one knows who he is? Not really. Nobody knew who Guardians of the Galaxy, Dr. Strange, or Black Panther are, and yet what is happening with their movies?

GotG was one of the biggest superhero hits, Dr. Strange is played by one of the big current actors (Whom I believe we have yet to see his masterpiece yet), and Black Panther is actually being looked forward to by a fair amount of people.

Do you know who has brand recognition? Brands that have been given a chance to be recognized. Give Miles his time to shine.

Except you're missing one thing: People do know who Spider-Man is. He's Peter Parker.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Slarg232 wrote:
Does it matter that no one knows who he is? Not really. Nobody knew who Guardians of the Galaxy, Dr. Strange, or Black Panther are, and yet what is happening with their movies?

GotG was one of the biggest superhero hits, Dr. Strange is played by one of the big current actors (Whom I believe we have yet to see his masterpiece yet), and Black Panther is actually being looked forward to by a fair amount of people.

Do you know who has brand recognition? Brands that have been given a chance to be recognized. Give Miles his time to shine.

Except you're missing one thing: People do know who Spider-Man is. He's Peter Parker.

Just like Hank Pym is Ant Man- Oh wait......

Well lets be honest. Has Hanky Pym ever managed to actually hold down an identity? I mean, other than abusing his wife*, switching super hero identities is kind of his thing XD

*But no, I'm seriously baffled by Hanky Pym and his popularity.

 Slarg232 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Slarg232 wrote:
All of your explanations sounded more like dealing with latent racism, to be honest.

"We can't put a black guy in a white guys role" is not an argument I ever plan on taking seriously. Especially not when there is an actual character whom they could base it around.

It really doesn't. No one knows who Miles Morales is. Brand recognition is a real thing, not a weasel word for racism.

Does it matter that no one knows who he is? Not really. Nobody knew who Guardians of the Galaxy, Dr. Strange, or Black Panther are, and yet what is happening with their movies?

GotG was one of the biggest superhero hits, Dr. Strange is played by one of the big current actors (Whom I believe we have yet to see his masterpiece yet), and Black Panther is actually being looked forward to by a fair amount of people.


Do you know who has brand recognition? Brands that have been given a chance to be recognized. Give Miles his time to shine.

Nobody knowing who the Guardians of the Galaxy, Dr. Strange, or Black Panther are means that there is no brand identity with them beyond "They are Marvel characters".
To try to compare it to the situation with a long established character that is at least vaguely recognizable to the mainstream public(Spider-Man is Peter Parker) is fallacious.

It would be like DC releasing a new Batman movie with Dick Grayson or Jean Paul Valley as Batman or trying to introduce Jason Todd or Tim Drake as Robin in Batman v. Superman.

To be honest, they probably could get away with a Jason Todd or Tim Drake as Robin in a Batman film (After all, Dark Knight Rises...) However, it'd probably help to reference that Grayson has grown up...

But yeah, it'd be extremely difficult to do A.N. Other Batman (except maybe a Batman-of-The-Future type deal), in a film. Just as it would with a Spiderman. Or Superman or Wonder Woman for that matter.

To put it in context, today I was wandering round the town center and saw a teenage girl. Your completely typical, normal teenage girl talking with her friends, also completely typical, normal, teenage girls. Her shirt / blouse was black with the Bat signal as prints on it. I would take a bet that she probably had no real interest in comics, or any general geekery whatsoever. But still, Batman shirt.

Spiderman is the same sort of thing, I think. There is an awareness of who and what Spiderman is and messing with that awareness is probably not going to make the money that the film would want to make.

except maybe a Batman-of-The-Future type deal

*Dreams of live action Batman Beyond film*

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Slarg232 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Slarg232 wrote:
All of your explanations sounded more like dealing with latent racism, to be honest.

"We can't put a black guy in a white guys role" is not an argument I ever plan on taking seriously. Especially not when there is an actual character whom they could base it around.

It really doesn't. No one knows who Miles Morales is. Brand recognition is a real thing, not a weasel word for racism.

Does it matter that no one knows who he is? Not really. Nobody knew who Guardians of the Galaxy, Dr. Strange, or Black Panther are, and yet what is happening with their movies?

GotG was one of the biggest superhero hits, Dr. Strange is played by one of the big current actors (Whom I believe we have yet to see his masterpiece yet), and Black Panther is actually being looked forward to by a fair amount of people.


Do you know who has brand recognition? Brands that have been given a chance to be recognized. Give Miles his time to shine.

Nobody knowing who the Guardians of the Galaxy, Dr. Strange, or Black Panther are means that there is no brand identity with them beyond "They are Marvel characters".
To try to compare it to the situation with a long established character that is at least vaguely recognizable to the mainstream public(Spider-Man is Peter Parker) is fallacious.

It would be like DC releasing a new Batman movie with Dick Grayson or Jean Paul Valley as Batman or trying to introduce Jason Todd or Tim Drake as Robin in Batman v. Superman.

I think the better analogy would be something along the lines of Terry McGuiness as Batman. Doable, and it's not "The True Batman", but a Batman it is.

 LordofHats wrote:

except maybe a Batman-of-The-Future type deal

*Dreams of live action Batman Beyond film*

I think everyone aware of Batman Beyond wants a live action movie.

I'd add "complete with stupidly huge cell phones that the creators thought would be a thing but weren't", but they actually ARE a thing now...

In part it works because even at 80 Bruce Wayne is still a bad ass

There will be bonus points awarded for including Ace.



Good bad dog.

 Slarg232 wrote:

I think the better analogy would be something along the lines of Terry McGuiness as Batman. Doable, and it's not "The True Batman", but a Batman it is.

No, it really would not be.

Terry McGuiness was his own character, with Bruce Wayne serving as his mentor.
Miles Morales was someone who took up the Spider-Man identity after the death/incapacitation of Peter Parker.

Miles has more in common with Dick Grayson in "Battle for the Cowl" than you seem to understand.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Slarg232 wrote:

I think the better analogy would be something along the lines of Terry McGuiness as Batman. Doable, and it's not "The True Batman", but a Batman it is.

No, it really would not be.

Terry McGuiness was his own character, with Bruce Wayne serving as his mentor.
Miles Morales was someone who took up the Spider-Man identity after the death/incapacitation of Peter Parker.

Miles has more in common with Dick Grayson in "Battle for the Cowl" than you seem to understand.

So you're saying that Miles was not "his own character"?

Terry took up the Cowl and the identity of the Caped Crusader when Bruce was too old to, Miles took up the mantle of Spider-Man when Parker was killed. It's the same principle. If you wish to argue that it's not, I'm going to have to see some sources.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Terry McGuiness was his own character, with Bruce Wayne serving as his mentor.
Miles Morales was someone who took up the Spider-Man identity after the death/incapacitation of Peter Parker.

That's a rather arbitrary standard. The only reason Terry became Batman was because Bruce was too old to continue, and suffering from a crippling heart condition* (incapacitated, one might say).

*When you think about it, how did he not die of high blood pressure? His life is like, constant stress XD

That said, I think I've come around to the opinion that a Spider-Man series should not start with Miles. Peter's death is as integral to Miles becoming Spider-Man as Uncle Ben's was to Peter. There'd first need to be a movie with Peter Parker that has him dying at the end for it to work, or else it'll cut out a major part of Miles' character and part of what made Miles so endearing.

If they make a LA Beyond....I will be there opeing night

Yeah, I'm very curious to see how the Bucky Barnes as Captain American in Cap 4 theory will end up panning out.

If it's successful, then there's no reason for Miles not to be a future Spiderman.

Keyword being future.

 Slarg232 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Slarg232 wrote:

I think the better analogy would be something along the lines of Terry McGuiness as Batman. Doable, and it's not "The True Batman", but a Batman it is.

No, it really would not be.

Terry McGuiness was his own character, with Bruce Wayne serving as his mentor.
Miles Morales was someone who took up the Spider-Man identity after the death/incapacitation of Peter Parker.

Miles has more in common with Dick Grayson in "Battle for the Cowl" than you seem to understand.

So you're saying that Miles was not "his own character"?

Terry took up the Cowl and the identity of the Caped Crusader when Bruce was too old to, Miles took up the mantle of Spider-Man when Parker was killed. It's the same principle. If you wish to argue that it's not, I'm going to have to see some sources.

The difference is that Bruce basically handed down the mantle to Terry McGuiness.
Morales and Grayson take up their mantles not because they're given the opportunity by the hero, but because the hero in question is dead and both feel that there is a necessity for the hero to exist.

This should not have required me to explain in more detail.

I wouldn't mind Spiderman in a Marvel Film if he died in that one and only very brief scene....................

 Slarg232 wrote:
Just like Hank Pym is Ant Man- Oh wait......

You're still not getting it.

People know Spider-Man through the movies, and in the movies - of which there have been 5 rather huge ones - they know him as Peter Parker. He's not an unknown like the Guardians are.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Nobody knowing who the Guardians of the Galaxy, Dr. Strange, or Black Panther are means that there is no brand identity with them beyond "They are Marvel characters". To try to compare it to the situation with a long established character that is at least vaguely recognizable to the mainstream public(Spider-Man is Peter Parker) is fallacious.

See? Kan gets it.

 Compel wrote:
Yeah, I'm very curious to see how the Bucky Barnes as Captain American in Cap 4 theory will end up panning out.

If it's successful, then there's no reason for Miles not to be a future Spiderman.

Keyword being future.

Exactly this! I'd be fine with that. But you can't just switch out a well-known character cold turkey and expect people to just accept it, and it's certainly nothing like "But no one knew who the Guardians were?".

 Slarg232 wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 Slarg232 wrote:
Bleh, I hope they do Miles. Had about enough of Peter Parker myself....

As we've already explained, wouldn't happen because of character recognition. So don't get your hopes up on the matter.

All of your explanations sounded more like dealing with latent racism, to be honest.

"We can't put a black guy in a white guys role" is not an argument I ever plan on taking seriously. Especially not when there is an actual character whom they could base it around.

Wooooooooow....welcome to the ignore list. My post had nothing to do with racism. And I appreciate the other posters standing up for me. If you can't see my point, and the same one made by a number of others, you aren't worth addressing further.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Slarg232 wrote:
Just like Hank Pym is Ant Man- Oh wait......

You're still not getting it.

People know Spider-Man through the movies, and in the movies - of which there have been 5 rather huge ones - they know him as Peter Parker. He's not an unknown like the Guardians are.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Nobody knowing who the Guardians of the Galaxy, Dr. Strange, or Black Panther are means that there is no brand identity with them beyond "They are Marvel characters". To try to compare it to the situation with a long established character that is at least vaguely recognizable to the mainstream public(Spider-Man is Peter Parker) is fallacious.

See? Kan gets it.

No, you guys aren't getting it; Miles replaced Peter Parker, in the comics, with absolutely no precedence for that to happen. Miles also became just as popular if not more so than Peter. They already have taken a Known and replaced it with an Unknown and it worked.

Now, they have the opportunity to do the same in the movies, but you guys are against it. Is it because you believe the general movie-going population is against it? Or something else?

But in the comics, they have already replaced Parker with Miles, it succeeded, and they can no doubt do the same with the movies now that there is a precedence for the character. Saying Parker to Miles would never work for Brand Recognition's sake is absolutely, positively false, because it already DID.

timetowaste85 wrote:

 Slarg232 wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:

 Slarg232 wrote:
Bleh, I hope they do Miles. Had about enough of Peter Parker myself....

As we've already explained, wouldn't happen because of character recognition. So don't get your hopes up on the matter.

All of your explanations sounded more like dealing with latent racism, to be honest.

"We can't put a black guy in a white guys role" is not an argument I ever plan on taking seriously. Especially not when there is an actual character whom they could base it around.

Wooooooooow....welcome to the ignore list. My post had nothing to do with racism. And I appreciate the other posters standing up for me. If you can't see my point, and the same one made by a number of others, you aren't worth addressing further.

Oh dear, you stab me in my wounded heart. How shalt I ever go on?

No, you're not getting it.

Regular people, not people like us, respond to things they know an understand. Peter Parker is a known quantity. Suddenly swapping him out for Miles Morales wouldn't work. It is ------NOT------ the same thing as the unknown Guardians of the Galaxy. Marvel had to introduce them to us completely. It would be more akin with replacing Tony Stark with John Smith tomorrow, yet still having this new guy in the armour. It would be jarring.

And yes, they replaced Parker in the comics with Morales. In Ultimates. Their side universe. Not their main one. Yippee.

Comic book movies exist on a precipice where they try to please the fans of the comics, but also appeal to a wider non-comic book-reading audience. Tip too far to either side and you lose the comic book fans, or you lose the audience. We've had 5 movies worth of Peter Parker. They're now going to reboot him for a third time, and people might not be so willing to board the same ride again. Completely changing the character at that point would be even worse.

 Slarg232 wrote:
Oh dear, you stab me in my wounded heart. How shalt I ever go on?

Nah brah. You're the guy who said he was a racist. You're this guy.

Man I'm so far removed from comics books, that I didn't know that both Peter Parker and Wolverine were dead.

Amazing..

I always thought that the Captain America death was more of a political stunt by Brubaker, but Parker and Logan?

Whatever.... I guess...

GG

 generalgrog wrote:
Peter Parker and Wolverine were dead.

Only in the Ultimate Universe (and too my chagrin Peter is alive again over there).

Jimmy Hudson has pretty much just become Wolverine 2.0. Though for the life of me I have no idea why he's so popular, cause he doesn't really do much. Mach Two and Ultimate Kitty Pryde* are way better

*Correction, Ultimate Kitty Pryde is awesome when she isn't suffering from her sever and unmedicated Bi-Polar disorder, a disease that at times seems to go hand in hand with being a mutant in the Ultimate Universe.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
No, you're not getting it.

Regular people, not people like us, respond to things they know an understand. Peter Parker is a known quantity. Suddenly swapping him out for Miles Morales wouldn't work. It is ------NOT------ the same thing as the unknown Guardians of the Galaxy. Marvel had to introduce them to us completely. It would be more akin with replacing Tony Stark with John Smith tomorrow, yet still having this new guy in the armour. It would be jarring.

And yes, they replaced Parker in the comics with Morales. In Ultimates. Their side universe. Not their main one. Yipp-

It would be a shame if the introduction of a new spiderman would cause each and every previous spiderman movie with Peter Parker to suddenly disappear, amirite?