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Also owner.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Also owner.

Probably shouldn't leave that fact out when trying to make a point.

As John Wayne is noted to have said, "Life is hard. It's even harder when you're stupid."
I'm just waiting for the law suit where she says she's been bullied on social media by her monster of an employer and now scarred for life.

Relapse wrote:
As John Wayne is noted to have said, "Life is hard. It's even harder when you're stupid."
I'm just waiting for the law suit where she says she's been bullied on social media by her monster of an employer and now scarred for life.

She'll have to flee her home soon (that's the "in" thing these days), and then get a Pateron account.

Motorbikes don't buy themselves after all.

It was justified to sack her, but the manner and tone of it was unprofessional. Someone should maintain their professionalism in these situations.

nkelsch wrote:
And many things like work ethic and core traits are pretty set at 16-17 and while they can be overcome, it is a struggle. In fact, kids who are not on grade level by 4th grade are usually doomed to educational failure and the statistics are they are forever behind their peers.

If work ethic was set in stone at 16 or 17 I’m fairly certain civilisation never would have started.

From the tweets we’ve read this kid sounds lazy and self-entitled. If she doesn’t snap out of that she’s probably facing a really tough life. But there is no way anyone on this forum can speak with any authority on whether she will or not. That’s just people throwing their own personal biases on to some random news story.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
It was justified to sack her, but the manner and tone of it was unprofessional. Someone should maintain their professionalism in these situations.

Another +1.

The sacking was justified, but how she was sacked was completely unprofessional at best; you do that stuff in private and through the proper channels, not through a public social networking site with a 140-character limited response.

Should she have been fired? Yes
Fired on Twitter? Debatable, but the employer's choice of words was a little off base
Should her now ex-employer have engaged with her after firing her? No

As much as it is stupid to say things about work online, I'm pretty sure that you are entitled to say that you don't like your job when you are on your own time.

 cincydooley wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
And I disagree, people can and do change. My cousin was once a stoner who did nothing, now he is a manager for a local night club.

I'm not sure this is the strong anecdotal evidence you think it is.

By proxy, i don't think your implied pithy anecdotal indictment is as damning as you think it is.

Running a successful nightclub is really difficult. Running a successful nightclub that stays open more than 3 years is damn near impossible. At least in my region. When i was in my early twenties i worked in a few nightclubs as a second job for some pocket change, and generally had a good head on my shoulders, so got to know the managers. It's a feth ton of work. You're surrounded by a lot of people that may not be entirely reliable, and if you don't do an incredible job for the owners, you have a ton of vendors to deal with, machinery to deal with, and you have to keep figuring out ways to keep headcount packed in. There's also a whole host of people right behind you willing to sell you out and take your job. It's very hard.

This is the reason why club opening consultancy is a pretty huge business.



People change. Especially dumb teenagers.


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 cincydooley wrote:

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Also owner.

Probably shouldn't leave that fact out when trying to make a point.

Also, yes.


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 SilverMK2 wrote:
As much as it is stupid to say things about work online, I'm pretty sure that you are entitled to say that you don't like your job when you are on your own time.

In the US you are entitled to say you don't like your job. If your boss happens to hear you saying that (or read that you wrote it), he's entitled to discharge you if you are an at will employee (which most in the states are). Most contracts have some sort of anti-disparagement clause in them, meaning that if you go aroudn saying how much your company or job sucks, you could be in breach of contract, and they could fire you for cause, which means they don't have to buy you out of the rest of the contract.

So it's one of those "you can absolutely say whatever you want" things, but much like yelling fire in a theater, there's going to be consequences.

 SilverMK2 wrote:
As much as it is stupid to say things about work online, I'm pretty sure that you are entitled to say that you don't like your job when you are on your own time.

Yep freedom of choice.


But you can be fired for it since there should not be freedom from consequences.

An employee/prospective employee trashing the business/job is indeed entitled to do so, and the boss man is entitled to fire them.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:
It was justified to sack her, but the manner and tone of it was unprofessional. Someone should maintain their professionalism in these situations.

I doubt very much that these two are the only people to get fired over things they have posted on social media. It's just that when it does happen, it is done in a professional way, and never makes the news. Most employers would almost certainly deal with it in this way to ensure that they do not break employment law for a start, and also so that the company doesn't tarnish itself with a public, unprofessional slanging match.

1) Someone posts a massive whinge on Facebook/ Twitter about their arse of a boss.
2) The next day they walk into work, are called into the office with said boss and HR Rep, and are asked to explain the now printed out message.
3) Depending on the terms of their contract, they end up with no further employment, or other appropriate sanction.
4) End of saga.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
I could understand her dislike for working at a pizza place if it was a crap pizza place like Pizza Hut, Dominos, Papa Johns, etc. But Jets consistently has quite a lot of positive reviews (haven't has a chance to try it myself yet). I should think one would be happy if their first job actually had good food. And, to be specific, it is in the FORT WORTH AREA, not the Dallas area. Fox News can't even get it right as to which side of the Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex.

DFW is all the same to everyone else, and its of course inferior to San Francisco East (Austin) or Pittsburgh South (Houston). Of course we settled that in the great Longhorn-Aggie-JR Ewing War of 1986.

My Boy's first job was at a pizza joint. I was so annoyed. Your first job is supposed to suck hard. His was excellent, with good tips and no issues. ARGGHHHH!!!

 curran12 wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
While he wasn't wrong to fire her, that he apparently was willing to spend all day feuding with teenagers over Twitter makes me agree with the many ex-employees who chimed in that she probably is better off working elsewhere.

Oh without a doubt I agree with that as well. Not saying she missed a good job, or the boss was a good guy. But I am saying that she is no saint either. Unfortunately, someone is going to hire her based on that and no doubt she'll poison another job instead.

I'll never understand this sentiment that people are supposed to be slavishly thankful to work a crappy job with crappy hours for crappy pay. It's certainly better than nothing, and if their dislike of the job did manifest as an actual bad attitude(rather than just the poor productivity which is the natural and entirely foreseeable result of working a crappy job) while they were working then fine, fire 'em, but the way folk are so comfortable with the idea of the girl being fired simply for having a wee moan about being stuck taking a crappy job is a bit disturbing frankly. It's now apparently not enough that people muzzle their ambitions and dignity to work crappy jobs so they can eat or try to save up in order to improve their lot in life, they must display an appropriate level of fawning, mewling, sycophantic false-gratitude towards the Job Creating Master Race as well.

 Yodhrin wrote:
I'll never understand this sentiment that people are supposed to be slavishly thankful to work a crappy job with crappy hours for crappy pay. It's certainly better than nothing, and if their dislike of the job did manifest as an actual bad attitude(rather than just the poor productivity which is the natural and entirely foreseeable result of working a crappy job) while they were working then fine, fire 'em, but the way folk are so comfortable with the idea of the girl being fired simply for having a wee moan about being stuck taking a crappy job is a bit disturbing frankly. It's now apparently not enough that people muzzle their ambitions and dignity to work crappy jobs so they can eat or try to save up in order to improve their lot in life, they must display an appropriate level of fawning, mewling, sycophantic false-gratitude towards the Job Creating Master Race as well.

Perhaps I missed it, but who exactly claimed this?

And she had her "wee moan" before she even started her job. I can fully understand becoming disillusioned with a low end job having been in there, but to have that attitude before even starting speaks volumes about her suitability for the position.

 Haight wrote:
In the US you are entitled to say you don't like your job. If your boss happens to hear you saying that (or read that you wrote it), he's entitled to discharge you if you are an at will employee (which most in the states are).

One of several reasons that I dislike the whole "at will" feature of employment law in the US.

Most contracts have some sort of anti-disparagement clause in them, meaning that if you go aroudn saying how much your company or job sucks, you could be in breach of contract, and they could fire you for cause, which means they don't have to buy you out of the rest of the contract.

And most jobs where such a clause is part of the contract you would have to go through a tribunal and due process.

So it's one of those "you can absolutely say whatever you want" things, but much like yelling fire in a theater, there's going to be consequences.

Except that yelling fire in a theatre is potentially causing endangerment to life, while saying that you don't love your job isn't (depending on what, how and where you say it) generally causing any damage or doing anything illegal and so should not be grounds for instant dismissal.

 Yodhrin wrote:

 curran12 wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
While he wasn't wrong to fire her, that he apparently was willing to spend all day feuding with teenagers over Twitter makes me agree with the many ex-employees who chimed in that she probably is better off working elsewhere.

Oh without a doubt I agree with that as well. Not saying she missed a good job, or the boss was a good guy. But I am saying that she is no saint either. Unfortunately, someone is going to hire her based on that and no doubt she'll poison another job instead.

I'll never understand this sentiment that people are supposed to be slavishly thankful to work a crappy job with crappy hours for crappy pay. It's certainly better than nothing, and if their dislike of the job did manifest as an actual bad attitude(rather than just the poor productivity which is the natural and entirely foreseeable result of working a crappy job) while they were working then fine, fire 'em, but the way folk are so comfortable with the idea of the girl being fired simply for having a wee moan about being stuck taking a crappy job is a bit disturbing frankly. It's now apparently not enough that people muzzle their ambitions and dignity to work crappy jobs so they can eat or try to save up in order to improve their lot in life, they must display an appropriate level of fawning, mewling, sycophantic false-gratitude towards the Job Creating Master Race as well.

You don't have to be slavishly thankful. Going on Twitter to trash your employer is however, stupid.



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 SilverMK2 wrote:

 Haight wrote:
In the US you are entitled to say you don't like your job. If your boss happens to hear you saying that (or read that you wrote it), he's entitled to discharge you if you are an at will employee (which most in the states are).

One of several reasons that I dislike the whole "at will" feature of employment law in the US.

Looks at employment rate. Looks at yours.

[

quote]Most contracts have some sort of anti-disparagement clause in them, meaning that if you go aroudn saying how much your company or job sucks, you could be in breach of contract, and they could fire you for cause, which means they don't have to buy you out of the rest of the contract.

And most jobs where such a clause is part of the contract you would have to go through a tribunal and due process.

Only if the contract has that in it.

So it's one of those "you can absolutely say whatever you want" things, but much like yelling fire in a theater, there's going to be consequences.

Except that yelling fire in a theatre is potentially causing endangerment to life, while saying that you don't love your job isn't (depending on what, how and where you say it) generally causing any damage or doing anything illegal and so should not be grounds for instant dismissal.

I will believe one could be happy when their particular the first actually experienced great meals. And, to be precise, it really is inside the FORT Well worth Region, not really the actual Dallas, tx location.

gasdg wrote:
I will believe one could be happy when their particular the first actually experienced great meals.

not Fort Worth? I'm confused. Do you need some coffee?

 Yodhrin wrote:
I'll never understand this sentiment that people are supposed to be slavishly thankful to work a crappy job with crappy hours for crappy pay. It's certainly better than nothing, and if their dislike of the job did manifest as an actual bad attitude(rather than just the poor productivity which is the natural and entirely foreseeable result of working a crappy job) while they were working then fine, fire 'em, but the way folk are so comfortable with the idea of the girl being fired simply for having a wee moan about being stuck taking a crappy job is a bit disturbing frankly. It's now apparently not enough that people muzzle their ambitions and dignity to work crappy jobs so they can eat or try to save up in order to improve their lot in life, they must display an appropriate level of fawning, mewling, sycophantic false-gratitude towards the Job Creating Master Race as well.

Moaning is fine, so long as it's done tactfully, with tact being something this woman obviously lacks. Moan to family and friends, or anonymously on various forums or blogs; don't go bad-mouthing the company you haven't even started to work for yet on a completely public account that is easily identifiable. The sort of image she'd bring the company would not be a favourable one by any stretch--it'd be like a McDonalds employee ranting to customers about working there over the restaurant's tannoy system. I don't believe that anyone is claiming that her firing was justified simply because she was moaning, but more because A) She hadn't even started the damn job, and B) she was broadcasting a--very potentially inaccurate, given her lack of experience in the job--negative view of the job, and by extension the company, not on a random blog on the internet, but to a reasonable number of potential customers, who each may be put off and, in turn, dissuade others. Firing her was getting rid of an obviously far-less-than-enthusiastic worker, instead of keeping her on and having to perform damage-control whenever she tweeted about how she hated working at XYZ because of co-worker #1, or how customer #3 was such an <insert expletive(s) here>.

Everyone moans about their work, but fortunately, enough people have the tact to know when to moan and to whom, and when not to. This girl quite clearly had no idea.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
I'll never understand this sentiment that people are supposed to be slavishly thankful to work a crappy job with crappy hours for crappy pay. It's certainly better than nothing, and if their dislike of the job did manifest as an actual bad attitude(rather than just the poor productivity which is the natural and entirely foreseeable result of working a crappy job) while they were working then fine, fire 'em, but the way folk are so comfortable with the idea of the girl being fired simply for having a wee moan about being stuck taking a crappy job is a bit disturbing frankly. It's now apparently not enough that people muzzle their ambitions and dignity to work crappy jobs so they can eat or try to save up in order to improve their lot in life, they must display an appropriate level of fawning, mewling, sycophantic false-gratitude towards the Job Creating Master Race as well.

Perhaps I missed it, but who exactly claimed this?

No one said anything remotely resembling any of that, but let him go. He's on a roll.

nkelsch wrote:

Lack of work ethic is what shows that someone will be a failure at life. If you are 16-18 and don't have a solid work ethic and have massive entitlement, you will have a really rough life, especially in today's economy.

Conversely, one can have an excellent work ethic and also fail to succeed. It is not a perfect predictor of success.

nkelsch wrote:

I had a solid work ethic at 14, which resulted in me getting valuable entry level experience by time I went to college which allowed me to get a skilled job in my chosen field during college which allowed me to graduate with zero debt and a 5-year head start on my peers. So while people were having quarter-life crises bitching about college loans and how minimum wage jobs are beneath them, I was owning my own house and working in my chosen field laying the groundwork to earn "be murdered and eaten by the poor" money.

I had no work ethic at 14. I didn't have any sort of job until was 18, and didn't have a serious job until I was 22; one that was well outside my chosen field. Yet when I was finishing my PhD at 26 I was already making the sort of money you describe.

There is no singular path to success, and what constitutes success will always vary from person to person.

nkelsch wrote:

So when someone who is literally the bottom of the workforce and deserves to be there walking out (or being fired from) a job which is at the bottom, yep. That is a failure.

There is a difference between failing and being a failure.

Bitching about work on twitter is not especially wise, but commonplace.

Firing someone over twitter remarks, unless they are the a sort that induces rage like racism or similar is just critically unwise.
The boss has just unleashed a whole lot of internet on his arse, and will find out that is is quite untrue what people say that there is no such thing as bad publicity.

 gorgon wrote:

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
I'll never understand this sentiment that people are supposed to be slavishly thankful to work a crappy job with crappy hours for crappy pay. It's certainly better than nothing, and if their dislike of the job did manifest as an actual bad attitude(rather than just the poor productivity which is the natural and entirely foreseeable result of working a crappy job) while they were working then fine, fire 'em, but the way folk are so comfortable with the idea of the girl being fired simply for having a wee moan about being stuck taking a crappy job is a bit disturbing frankly. It's now apparently not enough that people muzzle their ambitions and dignity to work crappy jobs so they can eat or try to save up in order to improve their lot in life, they must display an appropriate level of fawning, mewling, sycophantic false-gratitude towards the Job Creating Master Race as well.

Perhaps I missed it, but who exactly claimed this?

No one said anything remotely resembling any of that, but let him go. He's on a roll.

Aye ok pal, because that sentiment isn't exactly the one on display here, and people never ever use a bit of jokey hyperbole to make a point.

 Avatar 720 wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
I'll never understand this sentiment that people are supposed to be slavishly thankful to work a crappy job with crappy hours for crappy pay. It's certainly better than nothing, and if their dislike of the job did manifest as an actual bad attitude(rather than just the poor productivity which is the natural and entirely foreseeable result of working a crappy job) while they were working then fine, fire 'em, but the way folk are so comfortable with the idea of the girl being fired simply for having a wee moan about being stuck taking a crappy job is a bit disturbing frankly. It's now apparently not enough that people muzzle their ambitions and dignity to work crappy jobs so they can eat or try to save up in order to improve their lot in life, they must display an appropriate level of fawning, mewling, sycophantic false-gratitude towards the Job Creating Master Race as well.

Moaning is fine, so long as it's done tactfully, with tact being something this woman obviously lacks. Moan to family and friends, or anonymously on various forums or blogs; don't go bad-mouthing the company you haven't even started to work for yet on a completely public account that is easily identifiable. The sort of image she'd bring the company would not be a favourable one by any stretch--it'd be like a McDonalds employee ranting to customers about working there over the restaurant's tannoy system. I don't believe that anyone is claiming that her firing was justified simply because she was moaning, but more because A) She hadn't even started the damn job, and B) she was broadcasting a--very potentially inaccurate, given her lack of experience in the job--negative view of the job, and by extension the company, not on a random blog on the internet, but to a reasonable number of potential customers, who each may be put off and, in turn, dissuade others. Firing her was getting rid of an obviously far-less-than-enthusiastic worker, instead of keeping her on and having to perform damage-control whenever she tweeted about how she hated working at XYZ because of co-worker #1, or how customer #3 was such an <insert expletive(s) here>.

Everyone moans about their work, but fortunately, enough people have the tact to know when to moan and to whom, and when not to. This girl quite clearly had no idea.

Frankly I think the idea that a customer of the business would see and then more importantly put stock in a teenager complaining about a low-paid service job to the point it would even remotely affect their opinion of the business is stretching things to the point of doing Mr Fantastic impressions. Everybody knows low-paid service workers don't love their jobs, everybody knows they moan about it; customers know, other employees know, and the owners know fine well too unless they're the delusional "pillar of the community, me, job creator innit" types, I'll never understand why stating something publicly that everyone already knows is such a heinous offense, it's bizarre.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Aye ok pal, because that sentiment isn't exactly the one on display here, and people never ever use a bit of jokey hyperbole to make a point.

I believe it was more the strawman being objected to than the hyperbole

There's a line between strawman and hyperbole.

I actually think that kids these days have it fairly rough with the social media stuff. Most of us were idiots when we were younger in one way or another, kids now have ways to broadcast their stupidity to a much larger audience and have it stay around for a lot longer.

 Da Boss wrote:
There's a line between strawman and hyperbole.

I actually think that kids these days have it fairly rough with the social media stuff. Most of us were idiots when we were younger in one way or another, kids now have ways to broadcast their stupidity to a much larger audience and have it stay around for a lot longer.

This scares me to death. A friend of mine, Unbeknownst to me, posted a video of me getting a penis drawn on my then freshly bald head(I though he was doing the AANG Arrow)
Now there is a video of me like that out there. Im scared that a boss might find not just this, but several other things i posted online. Which is why for some things I have fake emails for.

 Da Boss wrote:
There's a line between strawman and hyperbole.

I actually think that kids these days have it fairly rough with the social media stuff. Most of us were idiots when we were younger in one way or another, kids now have ways to broadcast their stupidity to a much larger audience and have it stay around for a lot longer.

Here's how you keep from being rough.
Don't post stupid

 Yodhrin wrote:


Frankly I think the idea that a customer of the business would see and then more importantly put stock in a teenager complaining about a low-paid service job to the point it would even remotely affect their opinion of the business is stretching things to the point of doing Mr Fantastic impressions. Everybody knows low-paid service workers don't love their jobs, everybody knows they moan about it; customers know, other employees know, and the owners know fine well too unless they're the delusional "pillar of the community, me, job creator innit" types, I'll never understand why stating something publicly that everyone already knows is such a heinous offense, it's bizarre.

It is the customer is never right thing, Everyone knows it, even the customer know he isnt right, but he demands the illusion he is.
Slightly off topic, anyone ever notice that those who make less tip more often? I swear it seems like that.