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 Red Corsair wrote:
Same exact entry as now except you can upgrade all bikes for 10ppm for either a scatlaser or Shuricanon....

Dumb

Hahaha.

As a successful tournament player, I can see why people think Eldar are OP right now and why people think what we know so far about the up coming release seems rather OP as well. None the less, it is still frustrating to see post after post about how "Eldar are so OP no fair!"

Overall, there are still plenty of counters and dangerous units to Eldar such as Flyrants, Space Marine Drop Pods/Centurians/Grav Guns, resilient CC units, Tau, other Eldar and generally anything that can ignore cover (which can be anyone that can take Divination and IG with their orders).

Yes, Eldar have some very strong options currently, but at top level play, it is more of the player than the army and people seem to forget that. For this reason, I find it amusing how people complain about how "OP" something appears when all they need to do is just make a good army list/learn how to play against whatever is giving them a hard time-at which point they should do fine. What I think it comes down to is "X destroys Y and I like to play with Y so no fair" when really, just adjust your army and take things that can handle "X". One of the biggest parts of the game is army list design and all too often I find that a game is already lost because of the army list chosen by an opponent. This can be further compounded by poor play but some players (not all or even most) then go on to blame dice or the OP-ness of an army rather than accept that they lost not because the opponent took wave serpents but because their list wasn't able to handle wave serpents or that they played poorly. Indeed, there are plenty of times I lost simply because I chose to engage the wrong targets early on and regretted it later on in the game.

So with all of that said, while there are some very strong options for Eldar now, and apparently in the new dex as well, those strong choices are not without their limitations. Jetbikes, in the end, are still just Ld 8 T4 3+ save dudes.

From personal experience, ld8 (unless you have a Farseer in there which may be a no-brainer in the new dex) seems to fail 80% of the time (for me) and a 3+ save is more of a gesture, (the way I roll). There are ways to deal with anything any army can throw out there in the meta, you just have to build your army right.

Personally, I am very excited to see if they made Exarch powers not suck and how they adjusted other parts of the army. Having over 60 Wraithguard and 6 Wraith Lords, I really hope for some love shown towards those units =). Who knows, maybe the Fire Dragon Exarch won't have a useless +1 Strength in close combat power but actually give something like Tank Hunter (like it used to!)? Maybe Dark Reapers will have Shred? One can dream...

With changes like these it makes me wonder why Killa Kanz got the nerf bat like they did. I though GW was making reasonable improvements in balance with Orks (still a bit too weak but with less dead weight units at least), Wolves, GKs, and BAngels being close enough to the pack to not be nightmares to play. Then GW got back to its old ways and made the super powerful Necron and what's shaping up to be a repeat of the 6th edition Eldar Codex. Still want to see how this all pans out once all the dust settles.

That's the other thing, exarch powers might disappear if Incubi are any indicator.

My earlier point is that 1 WraithKnight is NOT a formation, even if it is a auxiliary choice for the Eldar special Detachment.

The Necron codex has a number of Formation, like the canoptek harvest. However, it also has units that are NOT formations, like Flayed ones or Deathmarks.

Only Formations can be added and remain Battle-Forged.
----------------
For example:
If I have 2 Canoptek Harvest formations and nothing else, I am Battleforged list, though it is not part of the Decurion and doesn't benefit from the Decurion's rules.

If I add a unit of Deathmarks to this army, it becomes Unbound. If, however, I add the Reclamation Legion and a unit of Deathmarks, the army becomes the Decurion as the Deathmarks are a legal auxiliary to THAT detachment

 Galef wrote:
My earlier point is that 1 WraithKnight is NOT a formation, even if it is a auxiliary choice for the Eldar special Detachment.

The Necron codex has a number of Formation, like the canoptek harvest. However, it also has units that are NOT formations, like Flayed ones or Deathmarks.

Only Formations can be added and remain Battle-Forged.
----------------
For example:
If I have 2 Canoptek Harvest formations and nothing else, I am Battleforged list, though it is not part of the Decurion and doesn't benefit from the Decurion's rules.

If I add a unit of Deathmarks to this army, it becomes Unbound. If, however, I add the Reclamation Legion and a unit of Deathmarks, the army becomes the Decurion as the Deathmarks are a legal auxiliary to THAT detachment

That's what I said, you take the core Guardian vyper tax and 1- 12 wraithknights. But that is if you use the Decurion one. Normal battle forged will prevent you from doing so unless you took multiple cads. Just means that with a single source you can field an army of GC wraithknights with some numpties running about.

A better example would be the Lords of Slaughter in Daemonkin. A Bloodthirster isn't a Formation in that codex. Can't just add a bunch of them to a CAD.

Are all of these minis going to be plastic? How much is the autarch?

I can see a lot of people getting in on the Deadzone pledge manager for 40-60 cheap jet bikes.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Are all of these minis going to be plastic? How much is the autarch?

Most likely, dont think they make finecast stuff anymore if they can help it, every new kit has been plastic

My farseer, 2 jet bike squad, wk prediction was pretty on.

A look inside.

jetlocks and jetseers are $40 each....

 mortetvie wrote:

Yes, Eldar have some very strong options currently, but at top level play, it is more of the player than the army and people seem to forget that.

You're so right.

The issue, really, is that you have a lot of people who will never be either very experienced and/or very skilled players, who do enjoy wargames, and are looking for an edge. When I first started 40k, I definitely fell into that category -- but back then (Rogue Trader) it wasn't like there was a whole lot of choices for models. The odd bike was a special thing to see. You do get better with experience, and if you play enough, even bad players stop doing stupid things. Eventually, I did get a little better

Playing "power lists", in my opinion, burns out playability anyhow. The most sustainable way to enjoy 40k for me is just to enjoy the friends, enjoy the game, and enjoy the models, and focus less on getting every advantage possible. If a model is bad but you like it, just play the damn thing. Once in a while, it will actually fluke out and kill something much better, and that's memorable.

Once a player has some skill and experience tucked under their belt, if they're not trying to win a tournament, a few bad units is not really the end of the world. It sure beats a few bad moves, or a few good units deployed badly

Looks like a min 500pt tax as the core before you can go crazy on the wraithknights. Very interesting.

 Ravenous D wrote:
Looks like a min 500pt tax as the core before you can go crazy on the wraithknights. Very interesting.

Unless you take minimum cads.

Oh yes, just what I like to see, Distort becoming D weapons

It's a little depressing, I was looking forward to finally being able to beat my mate's Eldar by throwing a Sicarian Kill-Clade at him to Haywire the buggery out of his serpentspam, now there's not even any point since it will take him all of an hour to convert the squadron of jetbikes he already owns with all-scats.

Bloody hell GW, can you not hold it together for more than one release in a row?

Oh my. More S6 spam out the wazoo. Oh joy.

 pretre wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:
Looks like a min 500pt tax as the core before you can go crazy on the wraithknights. Very interesting.

Unless you take minimum cads.

yeah for 1. But most tournies are 2 source max, that's a 500pts before you can take 1 to 12.

Man, I can't wait till the next next Eldar codex when GW finally gets these jetbikes under control! They'll probably balance everything out at that point.

I'm laughing at the fact they put the nerfed Transcedent C'tan against the buffed Wraithknight as well as the Toxicrene (who now wounds on a 6) and other, outclassed models. How dumb can you get GeeDubs?

Use the old C'Tan rules, that would be an interesting battle.

 mortetvie wrote:
As a successful tournament player, I can see why people think Eldar are OP right now and why people think what we know so far about the up coming release seems rather OP as well. None the less, it is still frustrating to see post after post about how "Eldar are so OP no fair!"

Overall, there are still plenty of counters and dangerous units to Eldar such as Flyrants, Space Marine Drop Pods/Centurians/Grav Guns, resilient CC units, Tau, other Eldar and generally anything that can ignore cover (which can be anyone that can take Divination and IG with their orders).

Yes, Eldar have some very strong options currently, but at top level play, it is more of the player than the army and people seem to forget that. For this reason, I find it amusing how people complain about how "OP" something appears when all they need to do is just make a good army list/learn how to play against whatever is giving them a hard time-at which point they should do fine. What I think it comes down to is "X destroys Y and I like to play with Y so no fair" when really, just adjust your army and take things that can handle "X". One of the biggest parts of the game is army list design and all too often I find that a game is already lost because of the army list chosen by an opponent. This can be further compounded by poor play but some players (not all or even most) then go on to blame dice or the OP-ness of an army rather than accept that they lost not because the opponent took wave serpents but because their list wasn't able to handle wave serpents or that they played poorly. Indeed, there are plenty of times I lost simply because I chose to engage the wrong targets early on and regretted it later on in the game.

So with all of that said, while there are some very strong options for Eldar now, and apparently in the new dex as well, those strong choices are not without their limitations. Jetbikes, in the end, are still just Ld 8 T4 3+ save dudes.

From personal experience, ld8 (unless you have a Farseer in there which may be a no-brainer in the new dex) seems to fail 80% of the time (for me) and a 3+ save is more of a gesture, (the way I roll). There are ways to deal with anything any army can throw out there in the meta, you just have to build your army right.

Personally, I am very excited to see if they made Exarch powers not suck and how they adjusted other parts of the army. Having over 60 Wraithguard and 6 Wraith Lords, I really hope for some love shown towards those units =). Who knows, maybe the Fire Dragon Exarch won't have a useless +1 Strength in close combat power but actually give something like Tank Hunter (like it used to!)? Maybe Dark Reapers will have Shred? One can dream...

This would mean more if they weren't 27 ppm troops with table wide mobility and optional built in cover saves. Are they a marine in profile alone? Sure but they have insane mobility with JSJ AND heavy support damage. Sorry dude, if this is true you can try to sweet talk all you like but that unit is criminal from what we know ATM. None of your counters make sense against such a cheap unit, there literally are NO troops ever created with such firepower/mobility for that cheap.

Video confirms all jetbikes can take scat gives points too

Yup, now all we can do is hope somehow the data card was printed incorrectly in WD...somehow...

Day one errata? Please?

Those bikes are just too good unless we are missing something.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Yup, now all we can do is hope somehow the data card was printed incorrectly in WD...somehow...

Isn't that what people were always saying about the wave serpent shield?

I'm just so shocked GW didn't do like people were saying and balance this codex out. Absolutely. Shocked.

 Ravenous D wrote:



A look inside.

jetlocks and jetseers are $40 each....

Did he juste went through the entire white dwarf without showing us the next week hint ?

i'm going crazy over this

Hmm so distortion weapons, what other units besides Wraithknights have them?

 Accolade wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Yup, now all we can do is hope somehow the data card was printed incorrectly in WD...somehow...

Isn't that what people were always saying about the wave serpent shield?

I'm just so shocked GW didn't do like people were saying and balance this codex out. Absolutely. Shocked.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm because following the Necron Codex I've given up hope of GW understanding the rules for their game,

Bonus points to GW if they make Banshees worse.

Yea this will seriously screw up things. Honestly I have been wracking my brain to think of another army that can get 160 s6 shots for only 1080 from TROOPS! MY GOD!

But if you listen to Mortetvie we are all just whiners and its the player not the list..... yea, right....

It will really encourage healthy RTT turn out when one douche can show up with 200 s6 shots in a 1500 point game....