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 ImAGeek wrote:

 Ravenous D wrote:

 ImAGeek wrote:
I apologise for being that guy who hasn't read the whole thread, but is this the new Eldar codex, or like a supplementy mini dex type thing? The 'Codex: Eldar' name at the top, and the Eldar Craftworlds title make it seem more like a supplement. Does DE have the 'Codex:Eldar' at the top, and Harlequins?

its a full dex

Okay. Seems a bizarre way to word it, just 'Codex: Eldar' would've been fine, or 'Codex: Craftworlds Eldar'. Eh, probably just overthinking it.

Branding...

 Ferros wrote:
And that's without any kind of Psychic buffs...

Though let's keep in mind these are pretty fragile units. Chuck a few large blasts and you'll wipe out a unit.

Fragility only matters when your priced accordingly and come in low numbers. These bikes are cheap as all hell and can be taken in huge amounts. THAT is the most damning offense IMO. Had they moved to FA and been even 30 PPM I'd shut up and deal with it as a super good unit to face. Currently it's just an insult to other books core slots.


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 Ravenous D wrote:
Unless the wraithknight is 700pts and farseers jumped 400pts Then the codex is bananas. Unless battle focus is a Ld test to do every action.

Im just going to assume its a misprint until its in the codex

Both entries has better have jumped in cost considerably. Farseers are way too cheap now, especially on bikes.

I think the plasma oblit with dominions is going to come in handy soon.

And just to mention, if farseers have access to divination still then misfortune gives all those scatter lasers rending

 pretre wrote:
I think the plasma oblit with dominions is going to come in handy soon.

I am thinking buildings in general will be a great idea ha ha.

Yeah, buildings and AV13/14 vehicles are going to be useful if this is a thing... until I remembered ranged Str D Wraithknights...

It's crazy the same people can release the rules for the Harly bikes and these bikes in the space of a couple months.

 Ravenous D wrote:
And just to mention, if farseers have access to divination still then misfortune gives all those scatter lasers rending

I was wondering what would happen to seer councils and WS spam but now I don't even care. Neither look offensive next to basic troops lol.

Here's a star:

Farseer on jetbike with all 3 levels in divination, going for perfect timing, misfortune and auto gets prescience.

That's 40 rending shots with ignores cover and reroll to hit.

If it gets the 4++ or full Bs overwatch that aint bad either

I'd peg that at around 400pts

rollawaythestone wrote:
Yeah, buildings and AV13/14 vehicles are going to be useful if this is a thing... until I remembered ranged Str D Wraithknights...

OMG can we have anything....

This is hilarious.

From the video:


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rollawaythestone wrote:
Yeah, buildings and AV13/14 vehicles are going to be useful if this is a thing... until I remembered ranged Str D Wraithknights...

Void shields? Aww crap av 12.

I suppose the only real good counter will be Invisibility and 2++ Invuln assault armies.

Wraithknight being a gargantuan creature gives it feel no pain and it can't get poisoned to death very easily. Should be a pretty tough nut to crack for most armies.

I wonder how much that thing will cost in points? 450? 500? Is it a Lord of War in a CAD? Or are we getting non-LoW gargantuan creatures with ranged D weapons as normal heavy support options? If that's the case then all point of limiting superheavies and gargantuan creatures like Titans from tournaments has disappeared. Can't prevent people from taking Titans if one army is taking Titans as heavy support choices.

Jetbikes are pretty cool

At this point what interests me the most is if Wave Serpents were even nerfed? I mean, considering the treatment the other units have gotten I wouldn't expect anything. It's pretty much a coin flip what they did to Wave Serpents. I wouldn't put buffing the Wave Serpent past GW at this point.

27points for a BS 4 eldar jetbike with a scatter laser

Fair and balanced like fox news

 Ravenous D wrote:

Well this calls for some math!

120 shots at bs4 = 80 hits

Against marines:
67 wounds, 22 marines dead.

Against terminators:
67 wounds, 11 terminators dead

Against T4 or less with 4+ armour or cover (whatever):
67 wounds, 33 dead

Against T5 3+ sv
54 wounds, 18 dead

Against the dreaded Necron wraithstar:
54 wounds, 18 failed 3++, 9 failed RPs (half a unit in 1 volley)

Hurr hurr hurr

against screamer with 2++ reroll: less than one dead screamer. At least cheese counters cheese.

Yeah. Daemon assault is the only thing I can think of that could weather this shooting and be able to kill that many Jetbikes.

 Therion wrote:
Wraithknight being a gargantuan creature gives it feel no pain and it can't get poisoned to death very easily. Should be a pretty tough nut to crack for most armies.

I wonder how much that thing will cost in points? 450? 500? Is it a Lord of War in a CAD? Or are we getting non-LoW gargantuan creatures with ranged D weapons as normal heavy support options? If that's the case then all point of limiting superheavies and gargantuan creatures like Titans has disappeared. Can't prevent people from taking Titans if one army is taking Titans as heavy support choices.

Jetbikes are pretty cool

At this point what interests me the most is if Wave Serpents were even nerfed? I mean, considering the treatment the other units have gotten I wouldn't expect anything. It's pretty much a coin flip what they did to Wave Serpents. I wouldn't put buffing the Wave Serpent past GW at this point.

Well the closest thing is the Tran C'Tan in the vault, its 550pts.


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Rugrud wrote:

against screamer with 2++ reroll: less than one dead screamer. At least cheese counters cheese.

That's where the Knight comes in with D weapons and stomps

 Therion wrote:
Wraithknight being a gargantuan creature gives it feel no pain and it can't get poisoned to death very easily. Should be a pretty tough nut to crack for most armies.

I wonder how much that thing will cost in points? 450? 500? Is it a Lord of War in a CAD? Or are we getting non-LoW gargantuan creatures with ranged D weapons as normal heavy support options?

Jetbikes are pretty cool

At this point what interests me the most is if Wave Serpents were even nerfed? I mean, considering the treatment the other units have gotten I wouldn't expect anything. It's pretty much a coin flip what they did to Wave Serpents. I wouldn't put buffing the Wave Serpent past GW at this point.

Sadly, I find myself not even caring at this point. Even if they remained the same I see scenario where the bikes don't outshine them.... Thats seriously says something.

You can get 40 scatriders for only 1080.... MY GOD! 160 s6 shots. I seriously want someone to find me another book that can get even half that many shots out of their troop section?

For 378 points, you can take 14 bikes with scatter lasers.
An Imperial knight paladin is 375. Against the knight, the bikes will put out 56 shots, getting 37.3 hits and 6.2 glances against its AV12 side or rear armor, resulting in 3.1 hull points taken if the shield is up on that side.
Against AV11, they get 6.2 glances and 6.2 pens.
Against barebones GK termies (33 ppm), they inflict 31.1 wounds, killing 5 after saves. The equivalent cost of termies (363 pts) does 2.44 wounds to jetbikes.
Against SM bikes, 8.3 unsaved wounds.
Necron Warriors take 10.4 wounds with a 5+++ reanimation protocols, 7.7 with a 4+++. Rapid-firing gauss does 6.4 wounds to the jetbikes, of course they would never be that close.
Fire warriors take 15.6 wounds, inflicting 4.7 wounds (or 9.3 if rapid firing) on the bikes for the same points value.
Crisis suits take 10.4 wounds, dual plasma does 5.8 in return, 11.6 if rapid-firing...half of that if the bikes jink
Ork boyz take 31.1 wounds, no saves. Shootas do 7 wounds on jetbikes.
Guardsmen in Flak armor take 20.7 wounds, their lasguns do 4.2 wounds (8.4 if rapid-firing) on the bikes.
Finally, the bikes do 3.1 wounds to a riptide or dreadknight, 2.1 on the riptide if he has 5+ FNP.

The problem with the current codex, and the problem with the rumored bike lasers is that they bring a massive amount of high strength, high rate of fire shots to the table. It's a take-all-comers option that no other codex really has; extremely fast obsec units that can deal with anything. And in this case, it's better than a lot of other options that cost the same points.

Maybe this is a test by GW to see how far they can go before the community actually accepts that comping certain armies and restricting some playstyles / units is a legimiate and valid approach to make the game more enjoyable.

Haven't followed this all day, been busy. Just now catching up.


27ppm troops w/scatter lasers................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................


Sorry the rest of you don't play space elves. GG. Every time they update the Eldar codex, I am amazed at how much OP it is over the last.

rollawaythestone wrote:
Maybe this is a test by GW to see how far they can go before the community actually accepts that comping certain armies and restricting some playstyles / units is a legimiate and valid approach to make the game more enjoyable.

Goes in line with my theory of GW doing all in its power to destroy tournaments or force them to comp themselves. Sadly things like LVO have people embracing the retardation of the game with smiles and open arms.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 Therion wrote:
Wraithknight being a gargantuan creature gives it feel no pain and it can't get poisoned to death very easily. Should be a pretty tough nut to crack for most armies.

I wonder how much that thing will cost in points? 450? 500? Is it a Lord of War in a CAD? Or are we getting non-LoW gargantuan creatures with ranged D weapons as normal heavy support options?

Jetbikes are pretty cool

At this point what interests me the most is if Wave Serpents were even nerfed? I mean, considering the treatment the other units have gotten I wouldn't expect anything. It's pretty much a coin flip what they did to Wave Serpents. I wouldn't put buffing the Wave Serpent past GW at this point.

Sadly, I find myself not even caring at this point. Even if they remained the same I see scenario where the bikes don't outshine them.... Thats seriously says something.

You can get 40 scatriders for only 1080.... MY GOD! 160 s6 shots. I seriously want someone to find me another book that can get even half that many shots out of their troop section?

You can get 120 Devilgaunts for 960 which gives you 360 S4 shots.

At a glance they seem like a good way to deal with them but Gants drop like flies

Have you guys done the math on Shuriken Cannon vs Scatter Laser, or why is everyone only talking about laserbikes? If you really want take all comers troops then shouldn't the Shuriken Cannons be the preferable option?

hopefully serpent shield is removed or named a weapon and take away the stupid on a 2+ the pen is negated to a glance. also the twin linked thing has to go.

Well, looks like I was wrong. How can a nimrod like me make this codex more balanced in the time it takes to drink a 20 oz mountain dew, and GW can't pull it off over the course of two years! I wondering they even touched the serpent shield? Probably gave the damn thing twin linked for free.

Looks like it will be corsair eldar for me after all...

Thought people might find this interesting.

 Therion wrote:
Have you guys done the math on Shuriken Cannon vs Scatter Laser, or why is everyone only talking about laserbikes? If you really want take all comers troops then shouldn't the Shuriken Cannons be the preferable option?

I think it's the volume of S6 shots that is grabbing everyone's attention. But you're right, if psychic powers can be applied to the jetbikes, then some shuriken cannon bikes can just rend their way through every damn opponent in the game. That's of course not including what any of the *other* new units can do.

Lets do a comparison

4 wave serpents with scats, shuriken cannons at 130pts each, for a total of 520pts in the now old book did:

15 scatter laser hits, 11 shuriken cannon hits and 10 S7 hits.

For the same cost in scatbikes you get 19 bikes and cause: 50 scatter laser hits.

Oh my. They made it better.

Mother of god. What have they done? This is worse than what Primal Rayquaza did to the Ubers tier in Pokemon. What the hell were they thinking?