Eldar Rumors - Page 24/25 first info & pics.

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**Rune Stonegrinder**

pretre wrote:
Yeah, unless Vauls get a SERIOUS points increase, they are going to be the hotness too.

Not sure thier range will make them viable to spam

**ronin_cse**

mortetvie wrote:
In all honesty, I would be surprised if Jetbike spam will be in any of the top lists. I don't see that happening regardless of what people are saying here.

(1) Jetbikes have a very large footprint, (2) they are relatively unwieldy, (3) large units are hard to hide which means they can and will be taking return fire, and (4) jetbikes are especially vulnerable to combat. In short, Jetbikes are not that hard to take out and lacking the survivability of the serpent ensures this and balances it out. I know, I've been playing off and on with a Saim-Hann style list:
http://yriel.blogspot.com/2011/03/sprue-posse-mini-gt-battle-reports-part.html.

To be honest, Guardian Jetbikes/Wind Riders were always rather lack-luster in any capacity other than objective grabbing but were still fun to play. Now, at least they offer some offensive punch.

Likewise, Wraithguard need proper maneuvering to get into position to do damage and once locked down in combat, absent anything with hit and run (like Baharoth), are as good as useless for the rest of the game. D-Scythes are the only thing I really think are ridiculous if they become D weapons. Web Way portals are good too but those can be mitigated by proper positioning and use of "bubble wrap".

Overall, we have to wait and see how everything plays out with the dex and I personally hope distort =/= destroyer as it would make my 60 Wraithguard sad regarding ITC events (though I guess I can always take Wraithblades as they have served me well).

Anyway, I find all this doom and gloom and "eldar are OP" complaining amusing but also sad. Just because Eldar have strong options does not mean everyone will be taking them or has to take them. Don't want to play against Eldar because Eldar? Get over it... If someone wants to field something like I did here, http://yriel.blogspot.com/2011/06/this-one-is-for-you-charlie-altioc.html one should hardly find cause to complain... Now yes, there will be players that field nothing but X where X is the perceived super unit but that is generally pretty rare unless you go to any really big tournaments.

Don't get me wrong, I can also get frustrated playing against beefy Tau/Centurion spam armies and even Serpent spam but if my army is built properly, those things are not that bad-just play to the mission. All in all, I think the most fun will be had between people taking balanced lists-I personally don't see myself taking 6-9 man jetbike units with all heavy weapons anytime soon.

Most likely bike spam will be in as many top lists as WS spam, Imperial Knight armies, grav bike spam, etc...

**pretre**

Too bad Vaul's are only 24". :(

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
pretre wrote:
Yeah, unless Vauls get a SERIOUS points increase, they are going to be the hotness too.

Not sure thier range will make them viable to spam

Makes a serious 'no-go' zone for your opponent's army.

**Mr Morden**

Nocturnus wrote:
Azreal13 wrote:
Can You save The Galaxy?

HH game incoming!

Or Deathwatch, At this point, who can tell what the hell they're doing....

I guess all the crybabies that whined about Serpent spam are upset with the new Jetbike rules. The lesson here: Be careful what you wish for....

Unlike your mature statement about "crbabies" - or are you just another "WAAC cheesemonger who pretends to win through skill"

Who exactly (apart from people like that ) would welcome new broken units to exploit...............

**DCannon4Life**

So...anyone thinking that the Eldar Skimmers will get Deep Strike?

**Capamaru**

So do you think that eldar will be able to emply a normal CAD and not only the formations that we see on white dwarf?

**gorgon**

I'm not going to get bent out of shape about the jetbikes until I have confirmed information and some context (and probably even not then). It's not like this forum hasn't jumped the gun on this stuff before.

Regarding the rules being good in order to sell jetbikes...shouldn't they have wanted to sell Maleceptors too?

And don't say that it's because the other build (Toxicrenes) are world-beaters that make that kit fly off the shelves.

**rollawaythestone**

mortetvie wrote:
In all honesty, I would be surprised if Jetbike spam will be in any of the top lists. I don't see that happening regardless of what people are saying here.

(1) Jetbikes have a very large footprint, (2) they are relatively unwieldy, (3) large units are hard to hide which means they can and will be taking return fire, and (4) jetbikes are especially vulnerable to combat. In short, Jetbikes are not that hard to take out and lacking the survivability of the serpent ensures this and balances it out. I know, I've been playing off and on with a Saim-Hann style list:
http://yriel.blogspot.com/2011/03/sprue-posse-mini-gt-battle-reports-part.html.

To be honest, Guardian Jetbikes/Wind Riders were always rather lack-luster in any capacity other than objective grabbing but were still fun to play. Now, at least they offer some offensive punch.

Likewise, Wraithguard need proper maneuvering to get into position to do damage and once locked down in combat, absent anything with hit and run (like Baharoth), are as good as useless for the rest of the game. D-Scythes are the only thing I really think are ridiculous if they become D weapons. Web Way portals are good too but those can be mitigated by proper positioning and use of "bubble wrap".

Overall, we have to wait and see how everything plays out with the dex and I personally hope distort =/= destroyer as it would make my 60 Wraithguard sad regarding ITC events (though I guess I can always take Wraithblades as they have served me well).

Anyway, I find all this doom and gloom and "eldar are OP" complaining amusing but also sad. Just because Eldar have strong options does not mean everyone will be taking them or has to take them. Don't want to play against Eldar because Eldar? Get over it... If someone wants to field something like I did here, http://yriel.blogspot.com/2011/06/this-one-is-for-you-charlie-altioc.html one should hardly find cause to complain... Now yes, there will be players that field nothing but X where X is the perceived super unit but that is generally pretty rare unless you go to any really big tournaments.

Don't get me wrong, I can also get frustrated playing against beefy Tau/Centurion spam armies and even Serpent spam but if my army is built properly, those things are not that bad-just play to the mission. All in all, I think the most fun will be had between people taking balanced lists-I personally don't see myself taking 6-9 man jetbike units with all heavy weapons anytime soon.

Lets hope for all our sake that you are right. It's not very reassuring when you link to battle reports from 2011 though...

**mortetvie**

pretre wrote:
Yeah, unless Vauls get a SERIOUS points increase, they are going to be the hotness too.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

mortetvie wrote:
Don't get me wrong, I can also get frustrated playing against beefy Tau/Centurion spam armies and even Serpent spam but if my army is built properly, those things are not that bad-just play to the mission. All in all, I think the most fun will be had between people taking balanced lists-I personally don't see myself taking 6-9 man jetbike units with all heavy weapons anytime soon.

You can't play to the mission if you're dead.

Maybe I'm a little less optimistic, but if people can take 40 SL Bikes, they will.

I'm still hoping the codex brings sanity (who said I wasn't an optimist?).

I try to build my lists in consideration of what the strongest meta can throw at me with mission objectives in mind-this approach has served me well since 2nd Edition. Generally, this means taking some decent offense but with an emphasis on survivability which is why Wraithguard often feature in my lists (as they are tough with proper psychic support). Honestly, 9 jetbikes with Scatter Lasers might have a lot of firepower but they are still just shooting at one target at a time and are very susceptible to LD related attacks (Psychic Shriek/Telepathy powers), cover ignoring shooting and close combat. Honestly, I would not be too intimidated if I saw Jetbike spam on the other side of the table.

And @rollawaythestone, those battle reports just go to show how I did with "sub-par" lists in metas that had other particularly rough armies out there such as Venom Spam, Space Wolf Missile launcher spam, IG Manticore spam and so on. I also linked those reports to illustrate that I've been playing Eldar of all colors for a while (while still doing well in competitive settings) and have enough experience under my belt to hold off on the "Eldar are OP OH NOES!" mentality unlike some other people in this thread. Heck, I made it to 3rd place in BAO using Wraithblades =/. Do Eldar, and many other armies have very strong options? Yes, of course, but that does not mean that it is the end of the 40k world as we know it and player skill in terms of list design and game play is still the biggest determining factor as far as who will win a game.

If "OP" Eldar armies are getting you down, try to figure out how to beat them (just as you would trying to figure out how to beat a boss in any video game). If playing against such armies is not your thing, then competitive play is probably not for you and you should stick to playing with friends and people who will take lists that are more your taste.

**pretre**

gorgon wrote:
I'm not going to get bent out of shape about the jetbikes until I have confirmed information and some context (and probably even not then). It's not like this forum hasn't jumped the gun on this stuff before.

Well, to be fair, it is confirmed by WD.

We're just hoping WD is wrong and the codex is different.

**ronin_cse**

Capamaru wrote:
So do you think that eldar will be able to emply a normal CAD and not only the formations that we see on white dwarf?

Unless they get rid of all their HQs they will be able to take a normal CAD

**TheCustomLime**

I have a genuine question here: When did DakkaDakka do a Chicken Little and cry about the sky falling when the Codex in question wasnt as bad? This idea comes up at almost every release that is shaping up to be overpowered.

**Frozocrone**

gorgon wrote:
I'm not going to get bent out of shape about the jetbikes until I have confirmed information and some context (and probably even not then). It's not like this forum hasn't jumped the gun on this stuff before.

Regarding the rules being good in order to sell jetbikes...shouldn't they have wanted to sell Maleceptors too? And don't say that it's because the other build (Toxicrenes) are world-beaters that make that kit fly off the shelves.

GW employees would sell the Toxicrene as I6 2+ to wound but any savvy Nid player knows that the Dimachaeron is just better in all departments. For starters, hitting things on threes.
Don't even joke about the Maleceptor to me, an employee tried to sell me it as a character killer. Cool so WC3, roll to hit, Ld 10 most likely, D3 wounds...yeah Biovores can do that cheaper and from further away.

**Redemption**

Enough talk. More pictures!

**M0ff3l**

Capamaru wrote:
So do you think that eldar will be able to emply a normal CAD and not only the formations that we see on white dwarf?

I think its just like the necrons decurion detachment, I also believe every army will have an army creation table like this in the future.

All these little groups you see in the white dwarf are just formations in the codex Eldar: Craftworlds. You can take them using certain requirements (1 guardian host + 1 of the other ones probably) and get a certain bonus, or use them as stand-alone formations. You can still take a regular Combined Arms Detachment, and even add a few of the listed formations to it.

Not 100% sure about it ofcourse, but this is how it was with the crons, and this looks like its exactly the same deal.

**rollawaythestone**

That Farseer is gorgeous. .

**pretre**

TheCustomLime wrote:
I have a genuine question here: When did DakkaDakka do a Chicken Little and cry about the sky falling when the Codex in question wasnt as bad? This idea comes up at almost every release that is shaping up to be overpowered.

Oh it happens all the time. This one might be legit though. The big previous ones were Wraiths and Summoning. The first wasn't as good as these are and the second lacked significant information and experience.

It's hard to argue that the jetbikes as presented in WD aren't absurdly powerful and versatile for their cost. Unless the entire rest of the codex has absurd price rises, extremely restrictive special rules or some sort of other gotcha, or the Jetbike WD entry is just flat out wrong, things are going to be bad.

**Wonderwolf**

Nevelon wrote:
Looking at the list of options something struck me: I don’t see any units that have been dropped. There was some fear of the finecast only things being cut. But it looks like everyone is present and accounted for.

Which was always a stupid rumour.

They didn't drop Flesh Hounds from Khorne, nor Flayed Ones from Necrons, etc..

They "dropped" Finecast in the sense that they seemingly aren't making new units or even characters in Finecast, but existing units/characters will arguably stick around till updated (with the odd Vect-shaped exception, which hardly constitutes a rule).

**Capamaru**

M0ff3l wrote:
Capamaru wrote:
So do you think that eldar will be able to emply a normal CAD and not only the formations that we see on white dwarf?

I think its just like the necrons decurion detachment, I also believe every army will have an army creation table like this in the future.

All these little groups you see in the white dwarf are just formations in the codex Eldar: Craftworlds. You can take them using certain requirements (1 guardian host + 1 of the other ones probably) and get a certain bonus, or use them as stand-alone formations. You can still take a regular Combined Arms Detachment, and even add a few of the listed formations to it.

Not 100% sure about it ofcourse, but this is how it was with the crons, and this looks like its exactly the same deal.

So this means that if they follow the necron theme you will have to take 1 guardian host in order to be able to access the rest of the goodies. So the standard 1 hq - 2 troops and then 4 troops 3 elite -3 heavy support - 3 fast attack will not be an option anymore?

**Mr Morden**

Sadly underwhelmed by the bikes.............ah well

**pretre**

Capamaru wrote:
So this means that if they follow the necron theme you will have to take 1 guardian host in order to be able to access the rest of the goodies. So the standard 1 hq - 2 troops and then 4 troops 3 elite -3 heavy support - 3 fast attack will not be an option anymore?

Decurion is optional. You can still do CAD.

**rollawaythestone**

You will still be able to take the standard combined arms detachment if you wish. In order to take the Eldar Warhost, however, you have to follow their special list-building format.

**Rune Stonegrinder**

pretre wrote:
Too bad Vaul's are only 24". :(

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rune Stonegrinder wrote:
pretre wrote:
Yeah, unless Vauls get a SERIOUS points increase, they are going to be the hotness too.

Not sure thier range will make them viable to spam

Makes a serious 'no-go' zone for your opponent's army.

Unless it 3-4 Flyrants....can't shoot those

**Dash2021**

TheCustomLime wrote:
I have a genuine question here: When did DakkaDakka do a Chicken Little and cry about the sky falling when the Codex in question wasnt as bad? This idea comes up at almost every release that is shaping up to be overpowered.

This isn't chicken littling. I get that Dakka goes overboard from time to time, but the JBs are a legit concern. They are a troop choice, with the durability of a SM, the mobility of ...well...EJB, and now 36" shooting that can Assault move even further away. SL spam has alwasy been then name of the game for Eldar (except briefly in 3rd when it was SC spam), and it's now gotten easier to do. SL hit the sweet spot of being both high Strength and having a very high rate of fire. If you were designing a weapon you would want to spam, you'd be hard pressed to do a better job than SLs. And now you have a troop choice in which litterally every model can take one, and at a ludicrously low cost. Only willful ignorance can deny the game breaking effect this will have.

On WKs: I'm going to operate on the assumption they saw a pretty hefty price increase. If not, between them and bikes GW may have terminally broken the fun button on 40k. WK/Bike spam wouldn't be fun for nobody.

**ronin_cse**

Frozocrone wrote:
gorgon wrote:
I'm not going to get bent out of shape about the jetbikes until I have confirmed information and some context (and probably even not then). It's not like this forum hasn't jumped the gun on this stuff before.

Regarding the rules being good in order to sell jetbikes...shouldn't they have wanted to sell Maleceptors too? And don't say that it's because the other build (Toxicrenes) are world-beaters that make that kit fly off the shelves.

GW employees would sell the Toxicrene as I6 2+ to wound but any savvy Nid player knows that the Dimachaeron is just better in all departments. For starters, hitting things on threes.
Don't even joke about the Maleceptor to me, an employee tried to sell me it as a character killer. Cool so WC3, roll to hit, Ld 10 most likely, D3 wounds...yeah Biovores can do that cheaper and from further away.

Yeah and when I worked at Best Buy I would have to tell people it was a good idea to get a Best Buy credit card, and that they needed to spend another $100 to clean all the pre-installed junk off of their new computer. That's how retail works, GW are FAAAARRRRRR from the worst offenders.

**Thud**

mortetvie wrote:
(1) Jetbikes have a very large footprint,

Their footprint will be significantly smaller if you use the bases they are supplied with instead of the large skimmer bases in that batrep you linked to.

**Capamaru**

pretre wrote:
Capamaru wrote:
So this means that if they follow the necron theme you will have to take 1 guardian host in order to be able to access the rest of the goodies. So the standard 1 hq - 2 troops and then 4 troops 3 elite -3 heavy support - 3 fast attack will not be an option anymore?

Decurion is optional. You can still do CAD.

**pretre**

Rune Stonegrinder wrote:

Unless it 3-4 Flyrants....can't shoot those

Yeah, but even snap firing, the jetbikes are going to put the hurt on the tyrants.

160 Shots. 160/6 Hit. 160/12 Wound. 13 Wounds before saves. Obviously not every unit will be able to target the same tyrant. edit; Actually, that's what? 3-4 wounds. That's not bad for the flyrant. Get FNP and we're good to go.

Flyrants will probably be one of the best matchups against them.

**Accolade**

Capamaru wrote:
pretre wrote:
Capamaru wrote:
So this means that if they follow the necron theme you will have to take 1 guardian host in order to be able to access the rest of the goodies. So the standard 1 hq - 2 troops and then 4 troops 3 elite -3 heavy support - 3 fast attack will not be an option anymore?

Decurion is optional. You can still do CAD.

Someone needs to photoshop Woody into some Space Marine armor and give Buzz a Farseer's helmet.

**Rune Stonegrinder**

pretre wrote:
Rune Stonegrinder wrote:

Unless it 3-4 Flyrants....can't shoot those

Yeah, but even snap firing, the jetbikes are going to put the hurt on the tyrants.

160 Shots. 160/6 Hit. 160/12 Wound. 10 Wounds before saves. Obviously not every unit will be able to target the same tyrant. The tyrants are going to hurt them back, but I think that's a losers game for the tyrant.

Although Flyrants will probably be one of the best matchups against them.

I'm hoping s local guy uses 3 on a regular basis 4 at major events. I'd like to punch them for awhile. just one 10 man jetbike squad with scatter lasers will be impressive when guided