Eldar Rumors - Page 24/25 first info & pics.

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**Toofast**

Swabby wrote:
What is the big deal with jetbikes all getting a heavy weapon? Harlequin bikes have a shuriken cannon base, with an invul save and a mean CC option, with 2 wounds.

People called it the worst unit in the codex. People are losing their minds here.

Want to nullify 106(or is it 160) str 6 shots? Bring a land raider and laugh the while game away.

I plan on running 6x5 bike squads. That leaves me with 1040 points of stuff to nuke your land raiders. Even with a jetseer and a couple warlocks on bikes, I have 750 points to spend on D weapons and melta. Also, all my D weapons and melta are going to be more maneuverable than your land raiders. I see a land raider lasting 2 turns max against D weapons and melta. Fragon exarch with firepike says "hello!"

**Kanluwen**

Swabby wrote:
pretre wrote:
How many points are those Harlie bikes? Are they obsec?

Entirely different conversation than the one that people are freaking out about. There is precedent for eldar bikes all having heavy weapons. The harly bikes come with quite a few frills for the extra points and are multiple wound models.

Nobody is freaking out about Eldar bikes all having heavy weapons.

They're freaking out about 17 point Jetbikes, which are Troops and in minimum squadrons of 3, able to upgrade to Scatter Lasers for an additional 10 points per model.
Couple that with the fact that the Windrider Host formation(which is considered a "Guardian Battlehost" in the new Eldar FOC called the "Warhost", meaning it is a "Core" formation) is:
1x Farseer
1x Warlock Conclave
3x Windrider units
1x Vyper Squadron

That formation will likely have special rules, a "restriction" of "Farseers and Warlocks must be mounted on Jetbikes" and also have the formation be affected by whatever special rules the Eldar Warhost has just like the Necron Decurion does with double-dipping on formations within formations.

That is why people are freaking out.

**ImAGeek**

Kanluwen wrote:
Swabby wrote:
pretre wrote:
How many points are those Harlie bikes? Are they obsec?

Entirely different conversation than the one that people are freaking out about. There is precedent for eldar bikes all having heavy weapons. The harly bikes come with quite a few frills for the extra points and are multiple wound models.

Nobody is freaking out about Eldar bikes all having heavy weapons.

They're freaking out about 17 point Jetbikes, which are Troops and in minimum squadrons of 3, able to upgrade to Scatter Lasers for an additional 10 points per model.
Couple that with the fact that the Windrider Host formation(which is considered a "Guardian Battlehost" in the new Eldar FOC called the "Warhost", meaning it is a "Core" formation) is:
1x Farseer
1x Warlock Conclave
3x Windrider units
1x Vyper Squadron

That formation will likely have special rules, a "restriction" of "Farseers and Warlocks must be mounted on Jetbikes" and also have the formation be affected by whatever special rules the Eldar Warhost has just like the Necron Decurion does with double-dipping on formations within formations.

That is why people are freaking out.

Exactly. Jetbikes are bad enough as it is and we don't even know what the formation rules will give them.

**Wilson**

Elemental wrote:
Toofast wrote:
Actually, I live in a magical place where my opponents know how to build a decent list. We all play this INHERENTLY COMPETITIVE game with the intention of (gasp!) WINNING. I don't remove 1 spark plug when I take my car to the track just because it might be faster than my opponent's cars. I don't shoot IDPA with both eyes closed just because I might have more training or a more accurate weapon than the guy standing next to me. Why would I handicap my list? I think a lot of people must be confusing this game with D&D. There is a 300 page rulebook with the sole purpose of telling you how to determine who wins the game. I missed the memo where it became a crime to build lists with that in mind. Forge the narrative is a poor excuse for writing unbalanced and unclear rules. Nothing more, nothing less. If you want to buy that hook, line and sinker and make yourself feel better by belittling anyone who has the nerve to actually try to win a game instead of just shoving your man dollies around the table while making "pew pew" noises, that's on you.

I'd just like to add that generally, I have fun at tournaments.

When the game is grievously unbalanced, that's where the stigma gets attached to "trying too hard" to win. It's only because the rules are busted and allow for hideously funless and one-sided games, that social pressure has to be used, to try and get the sort of games that balanced rules should be producing.

Agreed!

**bullyboy**

do we know when this codex is supposed to hit? Projected dates?

**Kanluwen**

Preorders tomorrow(or Saturday, depending on if the new preorder rules go into effect tomorrow) and release the following Saturday.

**Swabby**

Bullyboy it already hit, and it is already winning tournaments and destroying friendships. I am pretty sure it will be for sale by the end of the month sometime.

**DarkStarSabre**

Talys wrote:
And, how many of your units were hit with the old Wraithguard, and walked away to talk about it?

As a primarily Tyranid and Nurgle player...

Lots of things actually. Sure, the ID on a 6 was a pain but FNP MCs and Invuln saves on elite units could soak quite a lot. Heck, I've watched Daemon units laugh them off. And D-Scythes weren't too much a threat to Plague Marines (wounding on 5s and we still had a 5+ FNP unless they rolled that mythical 6).

But now? FNP got dumpstered by the mere virtue of the weapon being a D weapon. Invuln saves suffer as well as on that roll of a 6...poof. No invuln saves.

You've pretty much taken a unit I could soak with a Venomthrope supported Carnifex brood (with Catalyst of course) or a Daemon blob and wrecked the tarpits I would leave with them.

And just you watch. I'll bet dollars to dimes that the Wraithknight is cheaper than either of the two Hierodule variants with its already superior WS, BS and I.

**mortetvie**

Sigh, it is premature to...

But yeah, it appears to *me* that the people that are actually going bonkers over everything are not competitive players. Jetbikes are not that hard to kill people... get over it.

**Kanluwen**

Swabby wrote:
Bullyboy it already hit, and it is already winning tournaments and destroying friendships. I am pretty sure it will be for sale by the end of the month sometime.

You do understand that the trend now for GW is to showcase entire rules for as-yet unreleased units in White Dwarf, right?

The jetbike rules are in the White Dwarf on sale Saturday. The list of how the Warhost is organized there as well.

**TheCustomLime**

mortetvie wrote:
Sigh, it is premature to...

But yeah, it appears to *me* that the people that are actually going bonkers over everything are not competitive players. Jetbikes are not that hard to kill people... get over it.

We know their points cost and we know for a fact that they can all equip scatterlasers. We know that Eldar are getting access to easy S: D weapons. What counters are there to Jetbikes that can't get ruined by the new Wraith stuff?

**DarkStarSabre**

Kanluwen wrote:
Swabby wrote:
pretre wrote:
How many points are those Harlie bikes? Are they obsec?

Entirely different conversation than the one that people are freaking out about. There is precedent for eldar bikes all having heavy weapons. The harly bikes come with quite a few frills for the extra points and are multiple wound models.

Nobody is freaking out about Eldar bikes all having heavy weapons.

They're freaking out about 17 point Jetbikes, which are Troops and in minimum squadrons of 3, able to upgrade to Scatter Lasers for an additional 10 points per model.
Couple that with the fact that the Windrider Host formation(which is considered a "Guardian Battlehost" in the new Eldar FOC called the "Warhost", meaning it is a "Core" formation) is:
1x Farseer
1x Warlock Conclave
3x Windrider units
1x Vyper Squadron

That formation will likely have special rules, a "restriction" of "Farseers and Warlocks must be mounted on Jetbikes" and also have the formation be affected by whatever special rules the Eldar Warhost has just like the Necron Decurion does with double-dipping on formations within formations.

That is why people are freaking out.

The other thing to note as well is that there are NO DUD UNITS in that option. Where the Necron and Khorne Daemonkin detachments forced people to take a dud unit they likely didn't use (Tomb blades and Possessed) this forces people to do...what? Dust off the Eldar army they fielded the codex before this one? The army some still use now with the current codex's added Wraithknight and Serpent spam treats?

There is literally no punishment to form that detachment. Worse still both the Necron and Daemonkin detachments have a single Core choice they can take. Eldar? They get 3, one of which is lol and the other 2 will never see the light of day.

But part of what grinds is the fact they have those options and one of those options has no 'duds' in it.

**ImAGeek**

mortetvie wrote:
Sigh, it is premature to...

But yeah, it appears to *me* that the people that are actually going bonkers over everything are not competitive players. Jetbikes are not that hard to kill people... get over it.

Again, it's not just Jetbikes. They're cheap enough they can take things to counter whatever you bring to kill the Jetbikes.

**Swabby**

Since when is the vyper not a dud eldar unit? People have ignored them for as long as I can remember.

**DarkStarSabre**

Swabby wrote:
Since when is the vyper not a dud eldar unit? People have ignored them for as long as I can remember.

Congrats. You have a 50 point Vyper tax. It's certainly not as much a dud as Possessed or Tomb Blades are. Seriously, have you read the Possessed rules?

**Mr.Church13**

The only way Gw will be able to damage control this is an FAQ saying they "misprinted" the points costs on those jet bikes.

More than likely on the WK and WG also. Because if they'll allow this stupidity there's no way they didn't low ball D weapons.

**Kanluwen**

Swabby wrote:
Since when is the vyper not a dud eldar unit? People have ignored them for as long as I can remember.

Vypers were "dud" options when compared to the other FA choices.

When they are mandatory as part of what amounts to your "Troops" choice, unlocking 1-12 Auxiliary slots for you to fill up with all the creamy goodness you could want from the rest of the book?
Suddenly they become a little bit less of a "dud"...

Once again, for reference since people seem to not have seen it:

Spoiler:

**Las**

It'll be really interesting to see what happens with this. I think the Eldar dex was the one thing everyone was looking forward to being tweaked around, including Eldar players. Them getting all around buffs with no real nerfs is obviously going to rub the community the wrong way. All we can do is wait for the dex.

Either way Scattergate 2015 is gonna be something we can all remember with lols.

**krodarklorr**

DarkStarSabre wrote:
Swabby wrote:
Since when is the vyper not a dud eldar unit? People have ignored them for as long as I can remember.

Congrats. You have a 50 point Vyper tax. It's certainly not as much a dud as Possessed or Tomb Blades are. Seriously, have you read the Possessed rules?

Tomb Blades are a dud? What did I miss?

**ShadowcatX**

krodarklorr wrote:
DarkStarSabre wrote:
Swabby wrote:
Since when is the vyper not a dud eldar unit? People have ignored them for as long as I can remember.

Congrats. You have a 50 point Vyper tax. It's certainly not as much a dud as Possessed or Tomb Blades are. Seriously, have you read the Possessed rules?

Tomb Blades are a dud? What did I miss?

Don't you know, one entry from the Eldar codex has been spoiled, every other army ever printed is a dud now?

DUH!

**mercury14**

One thing... Windriders are still Ld8. A 270 point Windrider unit losing three models, well that's a morale check you don't want to have to make...

Also jinking and having to snap fire with a 270 point shooting unit is no small sacrifice.

**Co'tor Shas**

I could see my barracuda being useful. It's burst cannons ignore cover based on jink or movement.

**Eldarain**

mercury14 wrote:
One thing... Windriders are still Ld8. A 270 point Windrider unit losing three models, well that's a morale check you don't want to have to make...

Also jinking and having to snap fire with a 270 point shooting unit is no small sacrifice.

The 10 man squads are being used to illustrate the upper end of the crazy and for the hyperbolic effect. Units of 5 of these will be the go to arrangement I think. They will still unleash an absurd amount of fire given their FOC slot and cost and will leave lots of points for the bearers of the D.

**mercury14**

Eldarain wrote:
mercury14 wrote:
One thing... Windriders are still Ld8. A 270 point Windrider unit losing three models, well that's a morale check you don't want to have to make...

Also jinking and having to snap fire with a 270 point shooting unit is no small sacrifice.

The 10 man squads are being used to illustrate the upper end of the crazy and for the hyperbolic effect. Units of 5 of these will be the go to arrangement I think. They will still unleash an absurd amount of fire given their FOC slot and cost and will leave lots of points for the bearers of the D.

What about the possibility that they'll hamstring wraiths with needing to be close to a seer again to operate at full capacity? There could be some caveats here.

Also killing 1-2 models in a small Windrider squad forces risky morale checks...

**Nocturnus**

mortetvie wrote:
ImAGeek wrote:
mortetvie wrote:
Yes corsair, math says jetbikes with scatter lasers are unstoppable and nothing can win against them! No ship can withstand firepower of that magnitude! Game over, do not pass go!

Seriously, I'm not worried about it and I am not afraid to play against such an army with any of my standard builds.

You really don't see an issue with 160 s6 shots for 1080 points, on models with a 48" threat range who can move after they shoot you to get out of range of retaliation? And then the fact they still have a chunk of points to spend on things to counter anything you bring to counter the Jetbikes?

In my experience, having that many shots is not the be all end. I've played lists where I had 9 Vypers and 9 War Walkers with more Vypers/War Walkers as allies and while all of that shooting is very strong, it can only go so far. I only bring up this example to say I know what that much firepower can do or not do.

It really comes down to how much terrain is on the game, what targets are available on either side, what shooting capabilities are on either side, how good the target priority is of either player and ultimately player skill.

Indeed, there are many armies and lists that would care less about that firepower listed above, so unless you are playing mathhammer in a vacuum or only play with infantry models that are T4 in a gunline, real life experience in tournament settings tells me this type of list will not be unstoppable.

I am not sure what you are smoking, but volume of fire is how to win at 40K. The more dice you roll for saves, the more guys you lose. It's quite simple. 10 Scatriders are going to ruin any infantry and light vehicles. You can live in denial land all you like. The numbers don't lie.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

mercury14 wrote:
One thing... Windriders are still Ld8. A 270 point Windrider unit losing three models, well that's a morale check you don't want to have to make...

Also jinking and having to snap fire with a 270 point shooting unit is no small sacrifice.

And how many people will attach Farseers to the unit for buffs? Most I'd reckon.

**ImAGeek**

mercury14 wrote:
Eldarain wrote:
mercury14 wrote:
One thing... Windriders are still Ld8. A 270 point Windrider unit losing three models, well that's a morale check you don't want to have to make...

Also jinking and having to snap fire with a 270 point shooting unit is no small sacrifice.

The 10 man squads are being used to illustrate the upper end of the crazy and for the hyperbolic effect. Units of 5 of these will be the go to arrangement I think. They will still unleash an absurd amount of fire given their FOC slot and cost and will leave lots of points for the bearers of the D.

What about the possibility that they'll hamstring wraiths with needing to be close to a seer again to operate at full capacity? There could be some caveats here.

Also killing 1-2 models in a small Windrider squad forces risky morale checks...

Yeah but you have more of them so it isn't as big a deal. Also a morale check is hardly a forgone conclusion. I think they have like 1/4 chance of failing or something? And don't Warlocks have a power to reroll?

**Dash2021**

Eldarain wrote:
mercury14 wrote:
One thing... Windriders are still Ld8. A 270 point Windrider unit losing three models, well that's a morale check you don't want to have to make...

Also jinking and having to snap fire with a 270 point shooting unit is no small sacrifice.

The 10 man squads are being used to illustrate the upper end of the crazy and for the hyperbolic effect. Units of 5 of these will be the go to arrangement I think. They will still unleash an absurd amount of fire given their FOC slot and cost and will leave lots of points for the bearers of the D.

Plus: Avatar's not really competeing vs. actually useful HQs now. Fearless bubble + 36" range + Assualt move after fire = Perma Fearless. I'm holding out hope he's gotten better and worth more than a fearless bubble, but I've also been hoping that since 3rd so I'm not going to hold my breath.

**Tsilber**

Oh no jetbike eldar! Have your one armed, walking with a limp, guardsmen walk over and poke em with a pillow in H2H...

So Eldar getting a new codex seems cool. I think I read through the ranting that scatter lasers lost target lot. Did wave serpent shields get nerfed in any way?

**ImAGeek**

Tsilber wrote:
Oh no jetbike eldar! Have your one armed, walking with a limp, guardsmen walk over and poke em with a pillow in H2H...

So Eldar getting a new codex seems cool. I think I read through the ranting that scatter lasers lost target lot. Did wave serpent shields get nerfed in any way?

Good luck getting into assault with a unit with a 48" threat range who can move after they shoot.

**Bojazz**

Eldarain wrote:
bearers of the D.

I just got a new favourite term.