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2015/07/04 17:17:46
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
OgreChubbs wrote: By looking through the last 200 pages i think they did peg their customers perfectly.
If i ran home and said
I went to walmart and bought this 60$ pool now they do not sell the pump they did when i bought the pool 5 years ago. Ovbiuosly the walmart man is giving me the middle finger. Peopel would recomend mental health.
Relax take a breath and move on no one will notice sorry to say. Thats the problem with internet everyone thinks they matter cause they can make a post.
I'm not sure I follow your logic.
We're talking about a company here that just told you itself to throw out the baby with the bath water, because you don't need that silly pump. You can use a bucket instead.
The logic would have been right and correct for 7th or 8th edition, this one.... no, the change here was too radical, no discussion, no open ended dialogue with the public, the standard issue "We know what's best for you, shut it and buy it...." shtick that GW is now known for.
The problem? They've driven an ever increasing hostile attitude to the consumer to the point where this is a borderline criminal act.
Companies' do not stay alive very long pulling this sort of gak, and it may become either the biggest mistake in this company next to going public that they ever made, or it is mad genius, and you will go shell out another couple hundred for some of this gak.... On my end, I'm on the sideline for now. I don't know if this stuffs going to fly, anymore. Hasbro has my vote if they pick up this new school G.I.Joe neon green Warhammer 40K AOSigmar mutant... Hopefully they can get the old MB molds and come out with Battlemasters V.2.
On my end, its looking like I have enough from GW and its time to start lightening my load.
And in this case, its not so much peoples opinion, but that there is a 20th century company that does not use technology, does not play test their product, initiate a discussion on a change, and uses shock value tactics to give one an impression that the sky's going to fall, rather then peoples general opinion.
Not to mention, they just [MOD EDIT - PLEASE find a different way to express yourself. - Alpharius] the game.
GW's in the penalty box this time, no matter how shiny this one looks. In this Grot's opinion, This one looks like a hot pile of stewed crap that there is no coming back from.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/04 17:20:26
At Games Workshop, we believe that how you behave does matter. We believe this so strongly that we have written it down in the Games Workshop Book. There is a section in the book where we talk about the values we expect all staff to demonstrate in their working lives. These values are Lawyers, Guns and Money.
2015/07/04 17:18:40
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Bull0 wrote: I can't believe how po-faced people are being about the silly rules! Just ignore them! Everybody will after the first game or two anyway when the novelty wears off. Just a bit of fun and a gimmick for new players to talk about. (that said, Wulfrik's "insult your opponent" rule needs to be changed for sure)
Lack of balance? Serious problem. Silly gimmicks? Get over yourself!
You say that, but it is probably the development that put me off most, just because it either shows the impression GW have of their playerbase, or shows that they're marketing their game for a very young audience. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it just isn't what I'm after. I get it's not a big deal for you but clearly it is for some people.
In my opinion that just comes down to how comfortable you are/aren't in your own skin. CS Lewis said it best, if somewhat paradoxically, when he said "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
I don't mind being childish, I just don't like making an idiot of myself in public. Those rules are a nightmare for someone with social anxiety which I haven't long since finished therapy for. They're just embarrassing. Not fun in the slightest in my opinion. Might be different if I had a close gaming group I was good friends with.
I get that, but that's pretty personal to you or other people who have anxiety (guilty! But I only really play at home with my friends). I'm seeing people deride the rules as stupid or a massive insult or whatever and I'm just not getting it. They're actually pretty smart what with the anecdotal nature of them and besides, none of the new models have them, I highly doubt any future releases will have them, etc. We've got Do_I_Not_Like_That up there talking about how the silly rules are a massive show of disrespect to him and his family and it's like... come on now.
No, I get it. They've already pissed on 30 years of legacy, now it feels like they're mocking it too.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Bull0 wrote: I can't believe how po-faced people are being about the silly rules! Just ignore them! Everybody will after the first game or two anyway when the novelty wears off. Just a bit of fun and a gimmick for new players to talk about. (that said, Wulfrik's "insult your opponent" rule needs to be changed for sure)
Lack of balance? Serious problem. Silly gimmicks? Get over yourself!
You say that, but it is probably the development that put me off most, just because it either shows the impression GW have of their playerbase, or shows that they're marketing their game for a very young audience. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it just isn't what I'm after. I get it's not a big deal for you but clearly it is for some people.
In my opinion that just comes down to how comfortable you are/aren't in your own skin. CS Lewis said it best, if somewhat paradoxically, when he said "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
I don't mind being childish, I just don't like making an idiot of myself in public. Those rules are a nightmare for someone with social anxiety which I haven't long since finished therapy for. They're just embarrassing. Not fun in the slightest in my opinion. Might be different if I had a close gaming group I was good friends with.
I get that, but that's pretty personal to you or other people who have anxiety (guilty! But I only really play at home with my friends). I'm seeing people deride the rules as stupid or a massive insult or whatever and I'm just not getting it. They're actually pretty smart what with the anecdotal nature of them and besides, none of the new models have them, I highly doubt any future releases will have them, etc. We've got Do_I_Not_Like_That up there talking about how the silly rules are a massive show of disrespect to him and his family and it's like... come on now.
No, I get it. They've already pissed on 30 years of legacy, now it feels like they're mocking it too.
Yes. You've just put into words another reason it was annoying me, I didn't even realise but yeah it really does.
2015/07/04 17:28:49
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Bull0 wrote: I can't believe how po-faced people are being about the silly rules! Just ignore them! Everybody will after the first game or two anyway when the novelty wears off. Just a bit of fun and a gimmick for new players to talk about. (that said, Wulfrik's "insult your opponent" rule needs to be changed for sure)
Lack of balance? Serious problem. Silly gimmicks? Get over yourself!
You say that, but it is probably the development that put me off most, just because it either shows the impression GW have of their playerbase, or shows that they're marketing their game for a very young audience. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it just isn't what I'm after. I get it's not a big deal for you but clearly it is for some people.
In my opinion that just comes down to how comfortable you are/aren't in your own skin. CS Lewis said it best, if somewhat paradoxically, when he said "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
I don't mind being childish, I just don't like making an idiot of myself in public. Those rules are a nightmare for someone with social anxiety which I haven't long since finished therapy for. They're just embarrassing. Not fun in the slightest in my opinion. Might be different if I had a close gaming group I was good friends with.
I get that, but that's pretty personal to you or other people who have anxiety (guilty! But I only really play at home with my friends). I'm seeing people deride the rules as stupid or a massive insult or whatever and I'm just not getting it. They're actually pretty smart what with the anecdotal nature of them and besides, none of the new models have them, I highly doubt any future releases will have them, etc. We've got Do_I_Not_Like_That up there talking about how the silly rules are a massive show of disrespect to him and his family and it's like... come on now.
No, I get it. They've already pissed on 30 years of legacy, now it feels like they're mocking it too.
Yes. You've just put into words another reason it was annoying me, I didn't even realise but yeah it really does.
Yeah, they did a huge series of big hardback books, loads of amazing new models, all to give WFB the send off it arguably wasn't even entitled to given the numbers, then they released all the rules for the new version for free, included rules for all your existing models for free, but they happened to include some mostly harmless, tongue-in-cheek special rules for a handful of characters? Yeah, it's like they're pissing right in your face.
Dead account, no takesy-backsies
2015/07/04 17:33:10
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
A few guys at my club have Warhammer armies (i don't). Given that the AoS rules are ap parently free, I might ask if we can try the game out. If it turns out I actually like AoS and we can get a regular Warhammer scene going, I might get a battalion box from Mantic Games. ~100 figures for £75.
2015/07/04 17:34:22
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Bull0 wrote: I can't believe how po-faced people are being about the silly rules! Just ignore them! Everybody will after the first game or two anyway when the novelty wears off. Just a bit of fun and a gimmick for new players to talk about. (that said, Wulfrik's "insult your opponent" rule needs to be changed for sure)
Lack of balance? Serious problem. Silly gimmicks? Get over yourself!
You say that, but it is probably the development that put me off most, just because it either shows the impression GW have of their playerbase, or shows that they're marketing their game for a very young audience. Not that there's anything wrong with that, it just isn't what I'm after. I get it's not a big deal for you but clearly it is for some people.
In my opinion that just comes down to how comfortable you are/aren't in your own skin. CS Lewis said it best, if somewhat paradoxically, when he said "When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
I don't mind being childish, I just don't like making an idiot of myself in public. Those rules are a nightmare for someone with social anxiety which I haven't long since finished therapy for. They're just embarrassing. Not fun in the slightest in my opinion. Might be different if I had a close gaming group I was good friends with.
I get that, but that's pretty personal to you or other people who have anxiety (guilty! But I only really play at home with my friends). I'm seeing people deride the rules as stupid or a massive insult or whatever and I'm just not getting it. They're actually pretty smart what with the anecdotal nature of them and besides, none of the new models have them, I highly doubt any future releases will have them, etc. We've got Do_I_Not_Like_That up there talking about how the silly rules are a massive show of disrespect to him and his family and it's like... come on now.
No, I get it. They've already pissed on 30 years of legacy, now it feels like they're mocking it too.
Yes. You've just put into words another reason it was annoying me, I didn't even realise but yeah it really does.
Yeah, they did a huge series of big hardback books, loads of amazing new models, all to give WFB the send off it arguably wasn't even entitled to given the numbers, then they released all the rules for the new version for free, included rules for all your existing models for free, but they happened to include some mostly harmless, tongue-in-cheek special rules for a handful of characters? Yeah, it's like they're pissing right in your face.
Well clearly there's different ways of looking at it.
2015/07/04 17:35:03
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
I worked myself through the O&G armylist. There are quite a lot of great ideas (some not specific to O&G).
The synergies are minimal, but nice and simple.
Still won't work, nor will it help AOS.
Without any kind of reasoning behind a Goblinboss on foot being "the same cost" as gorbad ironclaw or 1000000 blackorcs... it doesnt make any sense.
2015/07/04 17:35:43
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
If I seem bitter it's only because GW says I need to dress in drag to use all of my unit's special rules.
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
2015/07/04 17:36:32
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Hummmm, the way I see it allowing for gw to get under your skin specially if you think that GW added those not so funny rules in spite for vets is giving them to much importance.
I know and I also share the feeling "after decades of support this is the best they can come up with?" or "why did they killed literally everything positive about WFB?"
I have all these reasons to be stressed about:
Butchered fluff, Rules destroyed, regiments gone, bases gone ( use what you like is a clear temporary patch), dubious humour, space marines, skirmish wannabe, incompatible scaled minis.
But then there are also positives to be happy about:
Free rules, amazing artwork, all previous armies are covered with a scroll and almost all models are included, interesting terrain kits.
Final balance is not positive for sure.
So for me personally my immediate reaction was giving them the middle finger... but my cynical self will retract from that and instead I will carry on unchanged with my modeling projects, GW is not important or relevant enough to change my Hobby... I will collect the minis I want and play the games I want, GW and non GW ones like I always did.
So yes I will not allow a spoiled brat like GW mess up with my patience I will just close him in a dark room and will check him out now and then just to satisfy my curiosity.
All in all happy games folks I will continue having fun with my gobbos in any shape or form. I hope you guys can bury the dead corpse too and move to better days.
They effectively killed the "Pick-Up Game" for Fantasy. It's dead. There's not way you and a newly minted gamer acquaintance are going to agree on what level to play if points and power levels were already stupid in 8E... now it's literally just keeping putting models down until you're just 30% over your opponent not to give them an advantage.
So bring your whole collection! Your only limitation is how many big beasties can you mount on 25mm bases hanging vertically on cliff walls!
This game isn't meant to be taken seriously, obviously, thus I won't seriously consider giving them money. They're falling apart and this is just the next blatantly obvious thing to point towards... and yet people will defend it, and worse, people will buy this. XD
Shine on, Kaldor Dayglow!
Not Ken Lobb
2015/07/04 17:42:27
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
All this "destroying 30 years of Warhammer" gnashing reminds me of how the new Mustang isn't a Mustang because it doesn't have a live rear axle. It ignores the fact that time has moved on and what came before wasn't that great to begin with. It's obvious GW wasn't worried about current players so we can assume there was little downside to alienating them. Hence WHFB doesn't seem financially viable for GW (in the long term).
People also forget, Citadel Miniatures took over Games Workshop. The fact we still refer to the miniatures as Citadel is a constant reminder of which is the dog and which is the tail.
So, if you don't like the new rules I'm sorry for you. Felt the same when Rogue Trader became Warhammer 2nd Edition, I no longer played space elf pirates and now had to play Vulkan Sohei. But I'm actually interested in new rules and new fluff at the ground floor much like I was when Warmachine came out.
And no one can take away your current rules and minis. Epic players didn't care that GW abandoned them. Actually freed the players to make the changes they wanted.
Iain.
2015/07/04 17:43:50
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Do_I_Not_Like_That wrote: People are wondering why some of us are bitter, let me tell you why we're bitter.
GW is a company, and companies want to make money. Fair enough I respect that.
I've been in the hobby 25+ years, but I'm not expecting GW to give me a free pass just because I bought some skeletons 15 years ago.
All I wanted was some respect.
Ok, GW, you want to sell your new stuff, fair enough, and you want to phase out the old stuff. Fair enough.
But you could have let us use our old stuff in the new game without resorting to stupid rules and conditions. You could have done a ravening hordes.
I probably would have bought the odd unit, some of those paints, maybe some of that new terrain. You would have made money from me...but now I won't give you a single penny, because you're treating me like an idiot.
They did a Ravening Hordes via the PDFs. You can ignore the silly/stupid rules options because they're not mandatory, at all.
Thread Slayer
2015/07/04 17:45:00
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Hummmm, the way I see it allowing for gw to get under your skin specially if you think that GW added those not so funny rules in spite for vets is giving them to much importance.
I know and I also share the feeling "after decades of support this is the best they can come up with?" or "why did they killed literally everything positive about WFB?"
I have all these reasons to be stressed about:
Butchered fluff, Rules destroyed, regiments gone, bases gone ( use what you like is a clear temporary patch), dubious humour, space marines, skirmish wannabe, incompatible scaled minis.
But then there are also positives to be happy about:
Free rules, amazing artwork, all previous armies are covered with a scroll and almost all models are included, interesting terrain kits.
Final balance is not positive for sure.
So for me personally my immediate reaction was giving them the middle finger... but my cynical self will retract from that and instead I will carry on unchanged with my modeling projects, GW is not important or relevant enough to change my Hobby... I will collect the minis I want and play the games I want, GW and non GW ones like I always did.
So yes I will not allow a spoiled brat like GW mess up with my patience I will just close him in a dark room and will check him out now and then just to satisfy my curiosity.
All in all happy games folks I will continue having fun with my gobbos in any shape or form. I hope you guys can bury the dead corpse too and move to better days.
My take on the whole thing is the tabletop wargames market is very saturated with a wide variety of choices, products, and companies. As with all companies in all markets, when I believe a copany is not behaving in a manner that provides adequate service to me, their customer, I take my business elsewhere. I have so many choices why get bothered by a company that intentionally insults its customer base? Just shake your head, walk away, and do business with that other fellow who'll be happy to take the money you would have spent with the first company.
That's how free markets work. The companies with customer service in mind tend to do better than competitors who do not. Occasionally, the biggest company in a market forgets that and they end up being shaken from their pedestal.
2015/07/04 17:50:14
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Shadow Captain Edithae wrote: A few guys at my club have Warhammer armies (i don't). Given that the AoS rules are ap parently free, I might ask if we can try the game out. If it turns out I actually like AoS and we can get a regular Warhammer scene going, I might get a battalion box from Mantic Games. ~100 figures for £75.
Remember you can watch Mantic and online sellers to get that same army for probably a lot less than £75. Silly to pay MSRP.
Back to AoS, I'm looking forward to actually giving the starter box set a try. I think the FLGS where I just moved is considering carrying it.
Thread Slayer
2015/07/04 17:50:59
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Chairman Aeon wrote: All this "destroying 30 years of Warhammer" gnashing reminds me of how the new Mustang isn't a Mustang because it doesn't have a live rear axle. It ignores the fact that time has moved on and what came before wasn't that great to begin with.
Except the new Mustang is basically a Lada with the Mustang logo in bold across its hood.
I'd also argue that WHFB was great and if that assertion is debatable then the the previous editions (4,5,6,7,8) were a whole lot greater than what's been served up in this new thing
A grudge never too old to settle with metal and ire on the funeral pyre of vanquished foe
2015/07/04 17:52:50
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Now imitate 'scratching' a record whilst playing 'rat rapping' by Roland Rat on your iphone to give your slaves +1 move and I'll rub my thighs and leer at people passing the flgs window for the boon of slaanesh on my chosen.
Actually, if I only take 15 wounds of chaos chosen and manage to keep one model alive for 6 turns whilst simultaneously slapping my johnson in a labrador's face without getting it bitten off, I autowin!
I'd swing into the store to see that. I suspect that's what the lady wife assumes I do at the game store with you lads anyway.
Ok I made my way to the big smoke today to pick up a copy of WD, sadly all sold out but I did get to handle the minitures from the new box set. Out flipping standing. Excellent quality superb detail and way to kool for skool. Bit taken back at how good they are. Shop was packed and buzzing. We have one of the few stores with 3 or 4 staff still working at the one time. Great to see. I'm not GWs greatest fan but this looks to be a winner.
EAT - SLEEP - FARM - REPEAT
2015/07/04 18:03:04
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Just looking at the Night Goblins, would this be the correct interpretation of the new Fanatics rule?
According to the warscroll: "A unit of Night Goblin Fanatics can have any number of models". They move 2D6 and cause D3 damage with Rend -2. It also says that you can put them hidden inside a normal Night Goblin unit and when they come out they get a charge even if it isnt your charge phase. So they basically fight like normal troops and I presume remain locked in combat until everything they are fighting is dead??
So, if I have this right, a player can field a 10 strong unit of Night Goblins and field 1000 fanatics hidden within them?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/07/04 18:05:31
A grudge never too old to settle with metal and ire on the funeral pyre of vanquished foe
2015/07/04 18:03:27
Subject: Re:Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
The best bit about all of this is the fact that GW is publicly traded. That means we should know exactly how well this game does by about October 28 when the financial filings should be made public.
2015/07/04 18:07:39
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Does anyone know who wrote the novella? The website doesn't mention an author at all, as if it sprang fully-formed from he loins of the marketing department...*
I must admit I loooooove the "good" forces invading the "evil" world for a change. If they can draw out a few editions worth of "...but even those mighty feats will not stop the inevitable triumph of Good", I'll buy it. Down with the grimdark and up with the cheerlight, I say.
*Which might make it a better read than Nathan Long's Notrek and Fauxlix books.
My take on the whole thing is the tabletop wargames market is very saturated with a wide variety of choices, products, and companies. As with all companies in all markets, when I believe a copany is not behaving in a manner that provides adequate service to me, their customer, I take my business elsewhere. I have so many choices why get bothered by a company that intentionally insults its customer base? Just shake your head, walk away, and do business with that other fellow who'll be happy to take the money you would have spent with the first company.
That's how free markets work. The companies with customer service in mind tend to do better than competitors who do not. Occasionally, the biggest company in a market forgets that and they end up being shaken from their pedestal.
I know and to an extent I agree with you, I think my main divergence with that is that I refuse to be an active part of GW problems or solutions. I will selfishly concentrate on my own projects and let the market choose the path it wants to take and good luck to everyone GW included, let the money talk and I do that with NO moral attachments... It's just a silly miniatures company after all.
I probably am making too much of a big deal out of this. After all, it's only plastics minis on a table.
But other people are right. There are better companies, with better minis, and better rules, out there.
GW's dead to me, those other companies are very much alive. They can have my cash.
I've mostly sold off about 90% of my Warhammer stuff anyway, but I was hoping for one last hurrah for old times sake. AOS is not that.
I will ditch the rest, but I'll hold on to my first edition of Drachenfels, and read it now and again, when I need a trip down memory lane.
Favourite warhammer memory: my Empire army a few years ago. Was playing a game and three cannons in a row misfired!
Somebody get me a violin
"Our crops will wither, our children will die piteous
deaths and the sun will be swept from the sky. But is it true?" - Tom Kirby, CEO, Games Workshop Ltd
2015/07/04 18:10:20
Subject: Age of Sigmar 4th July WD leak and new names pg 1
Come on! First you kill 30 years of background, then you release Space...i mean Sigmarines with bows and the arrows are on the wrong side of the riser? Really?
I suspect that's what the lady wife assumes I do at the game store with you lads anyway.
